s/o people justifying breaking laws (illegal fireworks)

[...................]

vonfirmath- yes in populated areas it doesn't make any sense and carries a lot of risk. I myself agree with it being illegal where I live, in an extremely densely populated area, drought conditions constantly, and surrounded by grassy mountains where the grass is all dry and brown...always.  Either a brush fire, or a house fire is too highly probable.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

vonfirmath- yes in populated areas it doesn't make any sense and carries a lot of risk. I myself agree with it being illegal where I live, in an extremely densely populated area, drought conditions constantly, and surrounded by grassy mountains where the grass is all dry and brown...always.  Either a brush fire, or a house fire is too highly probable.  

 

Same here.  Yet even my neighbor breaks the law.  Drives me batty.  She has no yard to speak of so she is shooting these things at my windows and onto our roof.  No joke. 

[Pam in CT]

There is a place for civil disobedience in effecting needed change, but the moral bar has to be high.

 

That something is fun, doesn't meet the bar.  

 

 

 

The fun-fueled desire to fire off fireworks, where there is a real risk of harm to self and others, and of setting off fires or incurring property damage to others, doesn't meet that bar.

 

To me fireworks are in the same bucket as the fun-fueled desire to drink and drive.  Sure, I may be confident that in my case nothing bad will happen because I know about responsible limits and my own capacity and yada yada yada.   Those rules exist for a reason.  The reason is valid... even though the reason extends beyond the individual, unto the safety and well-being of others... just as drunk driving rules do. 

 

Blowing off such rules isn't "civil disobedience" -- it does not advance any civil purpose or higher objective.  Blowing off such rules is just indulgence, for fun.

[vonfirmath]

I'd just like to say... I don't speed.

 

The speed limit in west Texas is REALLY high. My car would explode of I tried to break the speed limit. LOL

 

When we drive in West TExas, I mostly let my husband drive because driving that fast scares me.  So yeah, not much danger of seeing me speeding on the roads. I do my best to drive the speed limit, using cruise control when on open roads. And i HATE going to Houston, where driving the speed limit will get you run over flat. I am so glad we did not end up moving there.

[gstharr]

In California, only non-profits get the permits for the fireworks stands.  The $5-10,000 proceeds are a big part of the band, church, cheer, football team, scout troop budget. But what makes it a blow off law for me is how arbitrary the laws are imposed.  In a 10 minute drive from my home, I can travel through 6 cities.  Half/half on whether there are restrictions.  Makes no  sense when sales are encouraged for charities/non-profits.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'm more concerned by the "I can do whatever I want regardless of what the law says and if it endangers or annoys other people they need to suck it up" mindset in the general population.

 

 

Yep, me too.

 

 

 

I am seeing a lot more of this kind of thinking recently. :(

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

Oh and mostly silent fireworks exist. They don't require a big boom.

[Jane in NC]

Breaking a rule or law seems tied to the concept of perceived risk.  Most people would not see a risk in driving 60 mph in a 55 zone but they would hopefully see the risk of driving 80 mph on a two lane/55 mph highway. 

 

As a coastal person, I see risks where visitors may not.  For example, my husband is a surf kayaker, i.e. he rides the waves in a kayak that is designed for this activity. He was out on Saturday when a guy struck up a conversation.  The visitor was impressed that my husband could paddle past the breakers which this guy had not been able to do.  My husband told him that he rides the rip currents out.  "There are rip currents at this beach?" There are loads of signs about rips. Anyone who visits a beach in the Carolinas should be prepared for rip currents especially near tidal changes. But on more than one occasion my husband has approached adults sitting on the beach and told them that their kids are playing in the water near dangerous rip currents.  You can often see the currents if you know how to look.  Usually parents jump up after my husband points out the rips--some parents completely ignore him.  Busybody. (And for the record my husband wears a PFD while kayaking.)

 

Personally I hate the noise of fireworks but what really cheeses me off is that many of the people who shoot these things off illegally where I live never clean up their mess. Volunteers who monitor sea turtle nests have to pick the remains of fireworks over the course of several days this holiday season.  I wish that people would be satisfied with fireworks that municipalities sponsor and not annoy the turtles. 

 

And I really don't care about family traditions either. It used to be a family tradition to load up the kids in the back of the pickup and drive to the beach.  This is now illegal in the state of NC (except in agricultural areas).  Yet I still occasionally follow behind a pick up with young children standing in the bed of the truck going to the Dairy Queen. Common sense, anyone? 

 

 

[Guest]

Same here. Yet even my neighbor breaks the law. Drives me batty. She has no yard to speak of so she is shooting these things at my windows and onto our roof. No joke.

Similar here. The neighbor has a big enough yard to shoot his bottle rockets and roman candles at his own buildings and guests' vehicles,but chooses to launch toward the neighbors. My other neighbor calls the PD. I go out and wet the roof where anything has landed, clean up debris and throw debris back on his lawn. Needless to add, we don't patronize his business and we do record to make it easier for the insurance rep.town is too busy with drug traffic to put any time into these fine upstanding citizens.

[Guest]

Yep, me too.

 

 

 

I am seeing a lot more of this kind of thinking recently. :(

 

Its basically funding our PD. They can get as much money as they want from all the drivers who ignore red lights, stop signs, and speed limits. You don't go thru an intersection here on green until all cross traffic stops..they can be half a block back when the light changes,but they will still gun it and run the light.

[Lady Florida.]

There is a place for civil disobedience in effecting needed change, but the moral bar has to be high.

 

That something is fun, doesn't meet the bar.  

 

 

 

The fun-fueled desire to fire off fireworks, where there is a real risk of harm to self and others, and of setting off fires or incurring property damage to others, doesn't meet that bar.

 

To me fireworks are in the same bucket as the fun-fueled desire to drink and drive.  Sure, I may be confident that in my case nothing bad will happen because I know about responsible limits and my own capacity and yada yada yada.   Those rules exist for a reason.  The reason is valid... even though the reason extends beyond the individual, unto the safety and well-being of others... just as drunk driving rules do. 

 

Blowing off such rules isn't "civil disobedience" -- it does not advance any civil purpose or higher objective.  Blowing off such rules is just indulgence, for fun.

 

:hurray: It reduces civil disobedience to merely thumbing one's nose at laws they don't like. 

[Twolittleboys]

Not specific to fireworks but just in general: I would consider myself quite law abiding (I do feel bad going over the speed limit or jay walking) but there are various reasons for me to justify breaking / ignoring the law:

 

1) In the case of laws that go against ones conscience. I do think that needs to be considered quite narrowly and yes, it can lead to great mistakes but I still feel we have to follow what is right. It is a tricky business though.

 

2) I believe in following the intention of the law more than the letter. I do think laws often can't be specific enough to cover every case so feel some leeway is okay. An example that isn't really about laws but is somewhat similar: When I first travelled internationally, I was stymied by the questions asked at the check-in counter: Do you have something in your luggage that does not belong to you? Did you let your luggage out of your sight at any time? Being honest and law abiding, I was like "Well, I have an alarm clock that really belongs to my father and I am just borrowing it for the trip. And after I packed my suitcase I had to go to the bathroom and left it unattended in our living room. And actually, I packed it last night and I slept so didn't watch it all the time. Oh, and when we got to the airport I had to use the bathroom and my father watched it..."

 

I have since gotten to the point where I do not answer the actual question asked but what I perceive as the intended meaning: "Did you accept something from a stranger/someone who could be a terrorist? Did you leave it unattended where strangers could get at it?" I feel slightly guilty about "lying" (and yes, theoretically your friend of many years who came over to wish you a good trip could have put something illegal in your suitcase) but is it really worth the hassle? And given that it doesn't take forever to check-in I assume everyone else does the same.

 

And there are laws that are pretty similar so in that case I don't feel obeying them is necessary.

[wendyroo]

An example that isn't really about laws but is somewhat similar: When I first travelled internationally, I was stymied by the questions asked at the check-in counter: Do you have something in your luggage that does not belong to you? Did you let your luggage out of your sight at any time? Being honest and law abiding, I was like "Well, I have an alarm clock that really belongs to my father and I am just borrowing it for the trip. And after I packed my suitcase I had to go to the bathroom and left it unattended in our living room. And actually, I packed it last night and I slept so didn't watch it all the time. Oh, and when we got to the airport I had to use the bathroom and my father watched it..."

 

I have since gotten to the point where I do not answer the actual question asked but what I perceive as the intended meaning: "Did you accept something from a stranger/someone who could be a terrorist? Did you leave it unattended where strangers could get at it?" I feel slightly guilty about "lying" (and yes, theoretically your friend of many years who came over to wish you a good trip could have put something illegal in your suitcase) but is it really worth the hassle? And given that it doesn't take forever to check-in I assume everyone else does the same.

 

And there are laws that are pretty similar so in that case I don't feel obeying them is necessary.

 

Similarly, DH is horrible at getting through border crossings...he wants to be so scrupulously honest, that he over complicates things.

 

I've lived in Michigan for most of my life, so I grew up watching my parents answer the questions the US/Canadian border agents actually cared about, rather than the ones they were literally asking.  DH, OTOH, answers everything is so much unnecessary detail, that it ends up sounding like he is lying or being sneaky.  We got pulled out of the line for further questioning so often when DH would drive us from New Hampshire (where we were living) to Michigan to visit my parents, that eventually we made sure I was always driving at the border.  I just give the agents the important parts of the truth, the parts they actually care about, and never get pulled out of line. 

 

Wendy

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

I have since gotten to the point where I do not answer the actual question asked but what I perceive as the intended meaning: "Did you accept something from a stranger/someone who could be a terrorist? Did you leave it unattended where strangers could get at it?" I feel slightly guilty about "lying" (and yes, theoretically your friend of many years who came over to wish you a good trip could have put something illegal in your suitcase) but is it really worth the hassle? And given that it doesn't take forever to check-in I assume everyone else does the same.

 

And there are laws that are pretty similar so in that case I don't feel obeying them is necessary.

 

I get flustered by these questions.  Ugh...

[LMD]

I'm more concerned by the "I can do whatever I want regardless of what the law says and if it endangers or annoys other people they need to suck it up" mindset in the general population.

I thought I was pretty clear that infringing on someone's rights isn't acceptable, sorry if I wasn't. You can never out regulate jerks, it will be a constant chase that only effects law-abiding people.

Edited July 3, 2017 by LMD

[Bluegoat]

In general, I think laws are not all created for the same reasons, and have different levels of importance.

 

There are some laws that become outdated, or have specific reasons for being passed that just don't apply to every situation.

 

I mean, most people will probably cross against the light on a deserted street at night, with no traffic anywhere near.  The point of the law is to protect people - but in that situation, waiting seems almost pedantic.

 

Fireworks I think are one of those areas where there isn't really a strong social consensus that they should be banned.  Usually such bans seem to be either about safety, or the nuisance to others.  And yet - fireworks can be used safely as many other pass-times.  And many people think it is a nuisance to be not allowed to use them.  Bans almost seem to be more a matter of "opinion" that seems to get passed into local law, rather than anything objectively important.

 

Personally, I do think there is some value in following even minor laws you happen to disagree with - it is an element of living in community that is important.  But I do have laws that I don't really bother with because I think they are actually stupid/counter-productive and also based on an unhealthy desire to control people.  They very much make me want to stick it to the man.

 

So, perhaps some people feel the same way about fireworks.