teaching note-taking with the Great Courses (specifically Vandiver)

[Lucy the Valiant]

I have 2 8th/9th graders here, and am considering putting together a co-op class for their age group next year teaching note-taking through the Elizabeth Vandiver Great Courses lecture series on Homer's Odyssey. In my mind, we'd meet around a table, listen to the (very interesting, IMO, and only 30-ish min. long!) lecture, take notes (on the board / in their notebooks), and then spend the remaining 15-20 min. of the class discussing / revising / fine tuning the notes.

 

Benefits would include note-taking practice from oral lecture, social interaction in academic context, exposure to the Odyssey (reading it as homework between sessions), and support for a larger English class (which the students would be individually responsible for at home). I'd also like to occasionally toss in some Homer-themed games, etc. in those last minutes of class.

 

Boring? Useful? Have you done this before and learned lessons you can pass on to me? Another mom is a strong artist / graphic organizer / observant blogger, and I would like to ask her to take the other 12 weeks of the co-op to teach note-taking from a non-linear perspective.

 

Thinking out loud here . . . looking for opinions . . .

[EKS]

Teaching note taking using the Great Courses would be tricky.  In order to get all of the information into 30 minutes, they go really fast--much faster than they would in a real classroom.  Also, in a classroom, the instructor will usually pause to write things down (though maybe not as much these days with things like PowerPoint) which gives the students time to catch up.  Also, when taking notes from a video, there is the temptation to pause it to catch up, which, of course, isn't possible in real life.

 

Perhaps you could produce skeletal notes for the students to fill in?

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Those courses are very difficult to take notes from.  They really aren't particularly true to a live class situation.  They don't tend to do stuff like write on the board.  They aren't responding to cues from a group of people in a classroom. 

 

Note taking is not that hard.  I can't recall a situation where I even had to determine what I should write down.  Most teachers will tell you or they write stuff on the board that is particularly important to write down.

 

Outlining from a passage/book/etc. is probably a more useful skill really.

 

 

[regentrude]

I have not found the Great Courses to be very conducive to note taking. They are very dense, and the instructor does not use a board to put crucial information. In most college classes, the prof would not just lecture for 30 minutes straight, but facilitate note taking by having key words and important points on a board or slides, or giving handouts.

 

[fourisenough]

I have never used a Great Courses lecture with my students, so I have nothing to add to this discussion, but since the other responses have consistently said the same thing (they're difficult to take notes on), that makes me wonder: how do people use GC with their kids? Do you just watch them and not expect any output? If yes (I I think that is perfectly fine), do you find that your kids remember much/absorb much of the material on a long-term basis? 

 

TIA for any BTDT experience. OP, sorry for the hijack...

[Pronghorn]

My daughter has watched four Vandiver courses (mythology, Aeneid, Odyssey, Iliad)  and is on her fifth (Herodotus). She takes notes and comprehends the material. She may pause the video now and then, but I don't think she does it a lot. This is a big topic of interest, though. Perhaps it would not work as well for kids not interested in these books. And of course the reading of the books makes some things in the lectures easier, since Vandiver discusses the plot.

[regentrude]

I have never used a Great Courses lecture with my students, so I have nothing to add to this discussion, but since the other responses have consistently said the same thing (they're difficult to take notes on), that makes me wonder: how do people use GC with their kids? Do you just watch them and not expect any output? If yes (I I think that is perfectly fine), do you find that your kids remember much/absorb much of the material on a long-term basis? 

 

We have used copious amounts of GC lectures for history and literature. We listen to them on audio, often together in the car, which sparks discussion right there and then; sometimes we talk about them later. 

My kids' output in history/literature consists of longer essays; I do not test whether they retain all facts. The beauty of the great courses is that they don't just rattle off facts, but present analysis and discussion. I am using them to expose my kids to this kind of argumentation; they learn about the topic, but also how to approach and discuss a historical development or work of literature.

 

I don't care whether they retain all the information. I know they retain the vital points, because that shows in our conversations. But more importantly, they are immersed in this type of argumentation and discussion, and hearing this modeled over and over again over the years is one of the main learning objectives for us.

 

And yes, they will remember forever Dr. Vandiver's explanation of cleos and time that is so vital to the understanding of Achilles' behavior in the Iliad; once you understand this, you won't forget it. OTOH, they won't recall the precise dates of medieval rulers and battles. No big deal; the overarching historical perspective and the recognizing of historical patterns is more important.

[lmrich]

I think you could listen to them together, pause when you wish to discuss, or even look something up in your book. Then we you are done have the kids write a reflection or something... that is how I have used them when I prepare for a class. I might jot notes down, but I do not try to take a lot of notes like I would in a classroom.  (that is also how I use John Green's Crash Course stuff - I listen while eating breakfast, pause it to jot something down - but never write a ton a notes - it is simply adding to my experience)

 

There are many teachers who post lectures online with powerpoints, etc.. maybe you scroll through and find some you like. I do not have one favorite. 

[Pronghorn]

I have listened and taken notes myself to some of the course (not by Vandiver but a Great Course) on how to understand Shakespeare. I had no problem with the notes. Perhaps it is easier with literary material than some of the other courses because the teachers have main points that are then illustrated from the book. If you have read the book, you only need a few notes on how it illustrates a concept.

 

Or maybe this is just because I am an older mom and grew up in the day when there wasn't much hand-holding around note-taking in school. Some teachers may have written things on the board here and there, but they didn't hand out outlines and study guides like they do now.

[Kfamily]

We also used the Vandiver lectures (DVD version) for both the Iliad and the Odyssey. I tend to agree that taking notes might actually take away from the lecture rather than enhance it. As an aside, the courses come with the companion guide (course guidebook) and each lecture is outlined in the guide. In a sense, the note-taking is already done but in outline form. I had my dd choose one of the questions which followed each lecture and write a response to it. We also discussed anything we found interesting or confusing.

 

:)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have listened and taken notes myself to some of the course (not by Vandiver but a Great Course) on how to understand Shakespeare. I had no problem with the notes. Perhaps it is easier with literary material than some of the other courses because the teachers have main points that are then illustrated from the book. If you have read the book, you only need a few notes on how it illustrates a concept.

 

Or maybe this is just because I am an older mom and grew up in the day when there wasn't much hand-holding around note-taking in school. Some teachers may have written things on the board here and there, but they didn't hand out outlines and study guides like they do now.

 

How old are you? 

 

Yes, I'm nosy.  I don't feel there was the same level of hand holding as there is now either, but I still don't recall teachers being cryptic about note taking.  Maybe it only seemed obvious to me.

[prairiewindmomma]

We're listening to the Aenid right now. She's flying through names, dates, and info.  Even with the course outline that is provided (online, printable from audible), it's not how I'd ideally teach note taking.

 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I have listened and taken notes myself to some of the course (not by Vandiver but a Great Course) on how to understand Shakespeare. I had no problem with the notes. Perhaps it is easier with literary material than some of the other courses because the teachers have main points that are then illustrated from the book. If you have read the book, you only need a few notes on how it illustrates a concept.

 

Or maybe this is just because I am an older mom and grew up in the day when there wasn't much hand-holding around note-taking in school. Some teachers may have written things on the board here and there, but they didn't hand out outlines and study guides like they do now.

 

Eh, it's just a different lecture style.  I went to an old school law school.  We came, he lectured, we left.  The pacing, structure of the lecture, and content shared are just flat out different.  

[EndOfOrdinary]

We take notes on the GC, but Ds pauses a lot. I require him to take notes so that he practices and it is much easier for him to write up essays that way. However, in a group setting, that might be very difficult. It is also much longer than a half hour. Double it and you might get close.

 

I can think of three ways you might be able to tweek it.

 

1) You could facilitate by giving a spaced outline so that they would already have a scaffolding to then fill in more details. As the course went on, the scaffold could begin to shift more and more to the student.

 

2) You could have a discussion section where they have to create an outline after the lecture is over, then kids can fill in what they remember.

 

3) You could have them take notes and create an outline from the chapters they read, then fill those in during the lecture. The discussion afterword would be about what worked and did not work for the different students so they could learn how each takes notes, hopefully improving their personal style.

 

I think you have a very good idea, but it might be like taking notes from a crash course.

[theelfqueen]

We've used them as audio in the across and had discussions. We've used the companion notes as references for written projects after.

We're currently using a Geology lecture series. The kids make photocopies of the enclosed lecture notes and follow along. They sketch in extra notes (mostly copying graphics down and definitions not already in the notes) in pencil and highlighting things especially interesting or important. After each lecture they write a response to one of the discussion questions. We do this a couple of days per week plus labs/demos/hands on projects or book work the other days.

 

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[EndOfOrdinary]

We've used them as audio in the across and had discussions. We've used the companion notes as references for written projects after.

We're currently using a Geology lecture series. The kids make photocopies of the enclosed lecture notes and follow along. They sketch in extra notes (mostly copying graphics down and definitions not already in the notes) in pencil and highlighting things especially interesting or important. After each lecture they write a response to one of the discussion questions. We do this a couple of days per week plus labs/demos/hands on projects or book work the other days.

 

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This a very similar to how we use the literature and history courses.

[Momto6inIN]

We have only used Economics from GC so far, but we have had a great experience with taking g notes from it. Yes, we have to pause several times for them to get the key points written down but that's to be expected when they are just starting out taking notes from a lecture. After the lecture we discuss, which is my favorite part :)

The other days they write about what they've learned. Like Regentrude said, it's not terribly important that they remember all the details but that they interacted and made connections with the ideas.

 

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[Guest]

I would agree with others who have mentioned the density of the GC. We use them extensively. Everything is condensed for an adult learner looking to get the most "bang for their buck" from a time perspective. Vandiver is one of our favorites, but the rate at which she clips through material is quick. I am not sure *I* would even take notes on her lectures without a great deal of stopping.

 

As someone else mentioned upthread, focusing on note-taking while listening to her would do her a kind of injustice. She makes these ancient pieces come alive. Her presentation of overarching themes is almost lyrical, and stopping and starting would detract from that. I have found that I don't necessarily feel that way about all of the courses. There are others that would lend themselves better to note-taking... maybe the Biology series or Major Transitions in Evolution or The History of the United States. They still go at a fast clip, though. I know my freshman guy would be drowning in trying to keep up with Vandiver if I required notes. As I don't, he absorbs a great deal of each lecture... enough to bring it up at night to discuss more when his teenage brain is on overdrive and mine is shutting down:-)

 

YMMV of course.

[Guest]

I have no idea why tapatalk has a clone user for me:(

[EndOfOrdinary]

Is there a specific reason you chose VanDiver or another different course?

[nansk]

Has anyone used a Coursera course for practising notetaking like the OP proposed?

[jjeepa]

My ds, who is 18, and I are watching The History of the US course and he takes notes during each session with no difficulty.  The pace is quicker than a typical classroom, but not too quick for note-taking imo.  We haven't used any of the Vandiver courses, so I can't compare the two.  He is a child that needed instruction for note taking when he was younger.  He either wrote down too much or too little, or his notes weren't organized with any structure and he often struggled to make sense of them.  He's got it down now. 

 

I think your class sounds quite useful.

[Lucy the Valiant]

Aaahhh, thank you all for all the feedback and suggestions!

 

I'm not familiar with many of the Great Courses, which is why I leaned toward Vandiver (hers are the only ones I've listened to in their entirety, and I like the outline-style notes provided with the lectures).

 

This idea is still brewing in my mind . . . the specific goal is to provide an academically useful course in a co-op setting; my specific background is in English & writing, so I'm most interested in that angle.

 

Hmmm, still thinking . . . I may not actually teach a course for that age next year, either; things are still very much in planning phase.

 

I really appreciate all the feedback and BTDT this thread has provided.