My big disappointment with colleges that meet 100% of need

[Tiramisu]

I have one in college already so I have been doing the fafsa for four years, and at one point I also had to complete an institutional financial aid form, too. So I'm very familiar with how our EFC has been calculated and the amount hasn't varied.

 

Now we are on the college search again with dd2. It's a different kettle of fish because DD1 knew exactly what she wanted to study, very few schools offered it, none were competitive (putting her in the top quartile for good merit aid), and she also was very clear she wanted a small college in a small town.

 

Dd2 doesn't now exactly what she wants, though she's thinking neuroscience at a smaller school and somewhere she can play in an orchestra. She has good stats and perfect grades in solid courses.

 

So with all this in mind, I started narrowing down her colleges choices by looking at those colleges that promise to meet 100% of need. Then I used one of those college's net price calculators based on their institutional guidelines for aid.

 

Uh oh. I got an EFC which was much, much higher that's the fafsa EFC, and I think it's because they considered our house (the modest house six of us live in but that happens to be in a high cost of living area) as funding for college. The EFC was 75% of dh's salary!

 

So I'm left thinking that guarantee of meeting 100% of need is bunk.

 

Do all of those colleges calculate that way?

 

For now I guess I'm back to the drawing board. Our states colleges are very pricey, and only one has neuroscience and it's too far to commute to.

 

I'll have to go back to considering much less competitive schools to ensure a lot of merit aid but many of them don't offer neuroscience. :(

[8filltheheart]

Ask over on the College aconfidential FA forum. I think there are a few meets need schools that don't incorporate the value of your primary residence. We can't come close to meeting our EFC, so I don't pay close enough attention to which schools. But posters over there are very knowledgeable. I'd ask and see what they suggest.

[Matryoshka]

Yes, this is exactly what happened to us. The college dd applied to that met '100% of need' had the highest net cost of any of the schools she applied to. They calculated our EFC at over 2x the FAFSA EFC. We also live in a HCOL area. I called and they confirmed that they expected us to use our house as a piggy bank. The EFC they calculated came to, yes, about 75% of our salary. Hahahaha. No.

[snowbeltmom]

Uh oh. I got an EFC which was much, much higher that's the fafsa EFC, and I think it's because they considered our house (the modest house six of us live in but that happens to be in a high cost of living area) as funding for college. The EFC was 75% of dh's salary!

 

So I'm left thinking that guarantee of meeting 100% of need is bunk.

 

Do all of those colleges calculate that way?

 

For now I guess I'm back to the drawing board. Our states colleges are very pricey, and only one has neuroscience and it's too far to commute to.

 

I'll have to go back to considering much less competitive schools to ensure a lot of merit aid but many of them don't offer neuroscience. :(

Not all schools factor in home equity in their calculations - my son's school doesn't. 

 

There is also another big difference among these "100% need-met schools".  Some of these schools meet need with grants, which are simply a straight discount off of the COA.  Other schools will meet your need with loans, which in my book, is really not "meeting need."

[Julie of KY]

What I've found in playing with some net price calculators is that some meet my need even better than the FAFSA, others are way higher. They all calculate the numbers individually.

... Hoping the numbers are right for my son's top pick school.

[FaithManor]

Oh yes. I remember this game. Alma College did that to us. Their "EFC" was double the FAFSA. Interestingly another school that year arbitrarily decided our house was worth three times the current market value. Just out of the blue. They were shocked that we were not amused and ds would not be attending.

 

But ya, that is their outlook. Remortgage your house, be unable to pay it off before you die. No thanks. And they assume the banks will even give you the money...think again!!! In many areas you can no longer do that since the real estate market tanked.

[JanetC]

What is your budget? How much merit would you need? There are a lot of liberal arts colleges where half tuition merit awards are not that difficult to get. Even LACs that don't have a conservatory will often have a music department. It would be easier if your DD would be willing to play in an ensemble of some sort rather than a full orchestra though.

 

Another question: if the college limits home equity to 1.5 or 2x income, could you afford your EFC then? I'll try to find some suggestions for you.

[JanetC]

Well, being underwater won't help on the FAFSA, but may help on the CSS/Profile.

 

[creekland]

This topic actually came up in my IRL circle not all that long ago.  We came to an interesting conclusion.  We (sort of) agree with the colleges when it comes to home equity, because it's not really all that different than having (or not) money stashed in any other retirement or savings account (which also tend to be considered by CSS Profile schools).  In the end (at retirement) if one were to cash out and move on, it's all the same.  Someone having a million dollars in their house is pretty equivalent to $900,000 elsewhere (allowing for closing costs and other seller fees).  If schools were to take one thing out of play, it merely means everyone (planning ahead) would be shoving all their money into it instead of elsewhere.

 

Where we disagreed (as a group - not individuals - we all seemed to "agree" at the end) is that schools ought to take COL into play some.  There should be some way it's not black and white with that million dollar home in a low COL area vs high.  We think the same with Fafsa and income too though.  They need to look at what is "average" for the specific area assuming folks don't plan to cash out of one area and move to a low COL area just to retire.  Not everyone wants to do that.

[katilac]

We had that experience as well. Although not quite as extreme, the added amount was a substantial difference. 

[JanetC]

I would guess this applies to any 100% need college.

 

True?

 

disclaimer: No kids in college yet. I'm just beginning this process, so I'm soaking it all in.

It is true that meets 100% of need means

- as the college defines need

- as the college defines meeting it

 

But

- Not all colleges define "need" in the same way. They can consider some assets and not others, and they can consider a larger or smaller percentage of those assets as available for college expenses.

- Not all colleges define "meeting" in the same way. They can consider different levels of loans as appropriate for students and their families. They can pay more or less per hour for work/study jobs.

[FaithManor]

This topic actually came up in my IRL circle not all that long ago.  We came to an interesting conclusion.  We (sort of) agree with the colleges when it comes to home equity, because it's not really all that different than having (or not) money stashed in any other retirement or savings account (which also tend to be considered by CSS Profile schools).  In the end (at retirement) if one were to cash out and move on, it's all the same.  Someone having a million dollars in their house is pretty equivalent to $900,000 elsewhere (allowing for closing costs and other seller fees).  If schools were to take one thing out of play, it merely means everyone (planning ahead) would be shoving all their money into it instead of elsewhere.

 

Where we disagreed (as a group - not individuals - we all seemed to "agree" at the end) is that schools ought to take COL into play some.  There should be some way it's not black and white with that million dollar home in a low COL area vs high.  We think the same with Fafsa and income too though.  They need to look at what is "average" for the specific area assuming folks don't plan to cash out of one area and move to a low COL area just to retire.  Not everyone wants to do that.

They should also take into account fair market value of the home. Seriously, this area has tanked so badly that our home is only worth $42,000 according to the state, and we would be hard pressed to sell it for that. Comparable homes are going for $35,00 if they do not have acreage, which we do not. And we have a nice home with 2400 sq. ft finished, propane heating system, and alternative green heating system with some solar panels to boot!

 

The CSS profile school that we did valued our house at $220,000.00!!!!! We submitted property tax receipts and had a local realtor do a market profile. Nope. They arbitrarily decided that not only could we sell it for this, but that we should borrow 80% of that value on the house. Except that the bank appraisal of the house was right at $42,000 because there were 200+ repossessions in the ten mile radius around our house. The college did not budge from their assertion.

 

They seemed shocked that ds would not be attending.

 

These colleges do.not.live.in.the.real.world.

 

Just because they think your house is worth that, and even IF the market value was that, it does not equate to a family being able to borrow that either. It isn't savings if the family cannot get the equity out of the home, and that is the case for a lot of people in the Midwest and Great Lakes Region right now. But colleges in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Wisconsin don't seem to understand this despite the numbers presented to them, and East and West Coast schools cannot possibly imagine a world in which a house of this nature could be sold so cheap. It is beyond their reality as well. So the whole thing is a bit crazy.

[creekland]

They should also take into account fair market value of the home.

...

 

So the whole thing is a bit crazy.

 

Agreed with all of your post.  That part didn't come up in our conversation because we naturally assumed one would be using the fair market value...  not some wishful thinking number.

 

We were merely discussing whether house equity should come up at all with need based aid and were comparing it to other savings from sources that (usually) are counted.

 

We also didn't agree that colleges ought to take all the equity in any given asset - just that it was reasonable to expect some.  This way it doesn't discriminate against those who save for college in its own fund and those who channel it all into some protected asset.

[Matryoshka]

This topic actually came up in my IRL circle not all that long ago.  We came to an interesting conclusion.  We (sort of) agree with the colleges when it comes to home equity, because it's not really all that different than having (or not) money stashed in any other retirement or savings account (which also tend to be considered by CSS Profile schools).  

 

Have to rather vehemently disagree.  We all have to live somewhere.  Our house is an average house, it's not a mansion, it's not even vaguely fancy.  It's well over 100 years old, it has mice, bats, squirrels we are constantly battling, and a wet basement.  My kids share a bedroom, our kitchen is a walk-through with Formica counters, All 5 of us share one shower, but because we're in a HCOL area, it looks like it's worth a lot.  If we 'cash out' our house, we have to buy another, which would cost at least as much.   If we borrow against this home, how do we pay it off in retirement?  And yeah, it's old - it will not be so easy to sell even if we wanted to. How do we 'cash out'?  If there's a mortgage on the home, we won't be able to pay it off when we no longer have income other than social security and what we've managed to save in our 401k - that money has to last us decades.  If we sell the home and there's a mortgage on it, we could not afford then to buy a new one.  Maybe if we moved to Kansas.  But that has its own costs, and I don't think everyone in a HCOL area should be required to move from where they've built their lives to a potato field in Idaho in order to afford retire. Or live in our cars? On the street?  What if one of us need assisted living someday?  Probably won't be able to afford that even with equity in the house. 

 

It is very, very different than having money elsewhere in a savings account.  If we have less savings, maybe we don't get to travel (probably can't do that much anyway), or eat only beans.  But you can't not have somewhere to live. Having a secure roof over one's head is important.

[creekland]

It is very, very different than having money elsewhere in a savings account.  If we have less savings, maybe we don't get to travel (probably can't do that much anyway), or eat only beans.  But you can't not have somewhere to live. Having a secure roof over one's head is important.

 

The comparison isn't equity in a house and savings.  The comparison is renting or no/little equity in a house, but having savings instead.  The same things you mention in/for retirement apply to both types of people.

 

Plus, the things you talk about with a higher COL area, I mentioned in the paragraph you didn't quote, so I'm not quite sure what the disagreement is... even similar incomes are not the same in all areas.  Fafsa (and CSS) ought to account for that in our opinions, but I know Fafsa doesn't (at least not much) and I'm doubtful about CSS.

[Tiramisu]

What is your budget? How much merit would you need? There are a lot of liberal arts colleges where half tuition merit awards are not that difficult to get. Even LACs that don't have a conservatory will often have a music department. It would be easier if your DD would be willing to play in an ensemble of some sort rather than a full orchestra though.

 

Another question: if the college limits home equity to 1.5 or 2x income, could you afford your EFC then? I'll try to find some suggestions for you.

Since you generously offered to help, here's some more info. Maybe some of it will give you a better picture or some ideas on how to proceed.

 

We are in an unusual financial situation besides the home as an available asset.

 

Pre-children, I was a serious saver while I lived overseas. When we moved back to the US, we were only able to get a mortgage because I made a major down payment. I still had some money leftover, and then dh's father left us some money so we could pay off our house and put the rest in the bank. Because dh's salary is low, we regularly need to use savings for medical bills and car repairs. We have had a lot of medical problems in the past several years and our cars are old with high mileage.

 

And because I worked overseas, I don't have any retirement, not even social security. Dh will get hardly any pension because he only immigrated to this country in middle age.

 

So the money we have in the bank in a big part is for our basic needs now and the future. I am very thankful things worked out so we could own our house.

 

If I were to pay a high EFC for tuition at public uni prices, we might be able to get her through. But then we'd be very, very stuck in the future.

 

When I was pregnant with dd3, who is now 14, I developed dysautonomia and I never went back to work. I also have special needs kids and I'm not sure how much support one in particular will need in the future. Employment for me in the short term is not realistic.

 

The DD who is now looking at colleges is the most likely to get serious merit aid. She is also flexible and can make the best of any situation. She doesn't need an orchestra or care too much about formal music study, but it would be very sad if she had no opportunity to play in college. I would just like her to get a good education and be employable in a secure job or in a graduate program when she's done.

 

DD needs to NOT live at home ideally. Her special needs siblings cause a lot of stress for her. She already knows she wants to be in wellness housing to be able to live in a healthy, peaceful environment. I think our often chaotic home environment is very hard on her. She also has sensory issues and neurocardiogenic syncope so she does best keeping a regular schedule. Despite all that, she is open to ROTC.

 

Any ideas?

Edited October 29, 2016 by Tiramisu

[creekland]

Since you generously offered to help, here's some more info. Maybe some of it will give you a better picture or some ideas on how to proceed.

 

We are in an unusual financial situation besides the home as an available asset.

 

Pre-children, I was a serious saver while I lived overseas. When we moved back to the US, we were only able to get a mortgage because I made a major down payment. I still had some money leftover, and then dh's father left us some money so we could pay off our house and put the rest in the bank. Because dh's salary is low, we regularly need to use savings for medical bills and car repairs. We have had a lot of medical problems in the past several years and our cars are old with high mileage.

 

And because I worked overseas, I don't have any retirement, not even social security. Dh will get hardly any pension because he only immigrated to this country in middle age.

 

So the money we have in the bank in a big part is for our basic needs now and the future. I am very thankful things worked out so we could own our house.

 

If I were to pay a high EFC for tuition at public uni prices, we might be able to get her through. But then we'd be very, very stuck in the future.

 

When I was pregnant with dd3, who is now 14, I developed dysautonomia and I never went back to work. I also have special needs kids and I'm not sure how much support one in particular will need in the future. Employment for me in the short term is not realistic.

 

The DD who is now looking at colleges is the most likely to get serious merit aid. She is also flexible and can make the best of any situation. She doesn't need an orchestra or care too much about formal music study, but it would be very sad if she had no opportunity to play in college. I would just like her to get a good education and be employable in a secure job or in a graduate program when she's done.

 

DD needs to NOT live at home ideally. Her special needs siblings cause a lot of stress for her. She already knows she wants to be in wellness housing to be able to live in a healthy, peaceful environment. I think our often chaotic home environment is very hard on her. She also has sensory issues and neurocardiogenic syncope so she does best keeping a regular schedule. Despite all that, she is open to ROTC.

 

Any ideas?

 

Yes.  You need to talk with folks in Financial Aid - adults, not student workers - and explain your situation in person.  Net Price Calculators are not a good "guess" for your situation.  Medical bills, disability, special needs kids... these are all genuine reasons one can use for appeals.  High stats for your dd can also play into how much colleges could want her and be willing to help out, but they need to know what is going on.  They won't think anything of it if you don't share.

 

We had a situation where we sold a piece of property that was a major part of our retirement assets while two of my boys were in college.  It made it look like we ought to be a full pay family for both boys, but if we did that, our retirement was definitely in jeopardy.  Talking with both financial aid offices was well worth our time and effort.  (Youngest was a freshman going in that year, so it's not like he was already there and "loved.")  Most folks in financial aid want to help if needs are documented.  You may find some that aren't as friendly.  Skip applying to those.

 

I've seen kids at school with special circumstances get really nice packages, but again, they have to ask.

[Lori D.]

Here's a list of colleges to get you started: Compare Colleges with Neuro Science Degrees

 

And if your DD has a high SAT/ACT score, you might cross-check the schools on that list above with schools that offer automatic full tuition for SAT/ACT score and high GPA:

 

- Automatic Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarship list of colleges (PSAT National Merit finalists/semi-finalists)

- Search Engine website ($8 registration fee) for automatic scholarships (partial and full) based on student test scores and GPA

 

For example ... Not sure where I came up with this list below (all these link are from a talk on scholarships for my homeschool group a few years ago)... But these colleges have (or used to have) a scholarship matrix (award automatic $$ for certain scores/GPA and meet priority deadline). And the starred ones also appear in a quick search of that neuro-science list at the top of this post:

 

* U. of Alabama at Birmingham

* U. of Alabama at Huntsville

* U. Loyola

* U. of New Orleans

Loisiana State

Spring Hill College

 

Here's an article with a "List of Guaranteed Scholarships Based on SAT/ACT Scores", and another article on "79 Colleges with Full Ride Scholarships", and a FinAid web article on "Full Tuition Academic Scholarships" which lists some specific schools and merit aid.

 

You might also check out the past thread with ideas for alternative funding of college: "s/o cautionary tale: high cost of college -- a brainstorm $$ idea thread". Good luck as you research options! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Lori D.

[Tiramisu]

The comparison isn't equity in a house and savings. The comparison is renting or no/little equity in a house, but having savings instead. The same things you mention in/for retirement apply to both types of people.

 

Plus, the things you talk about with a higher COL area, I mentioned in the paragraph you didn't quote, so I'm not quite sure what the disagreement is... even similar incomes are not the same in all areas. Fafsa (and CSS) ought to account for that in our opinions, but I know Fafsa doesn't (at least not much) and I'm doubtful about CSS.

I also wonder about costs like car insurance and property taxes. We have a rather small house for where we live and it's paid off but we have property taxes that rival other peoples' mortgage payments or rent.

[JanetC]

Yes. You need to talk with folks in Financial Aid - adults, not student workers - and explain your situation in person. Net Price Calculators are not a good "guess" for your situation. Medical bills, disability, special needs kids... these are all genuine reasons one can use for appeals. High stats for your dd can also play into how much colleges could want her and be willing to help out, but they need to know what is going on. They won't think anything of it if you don't share.

 

You also need to write a letter reminding and documenting your circumstances when you do your financial aid documents. Many colleges will only entertain financial aid appeals for new information that you did not know at the time you applied. If you don't describe your circumstances up front, it may be too late later on.

[creekland]

You also need to write a letter reminding and documenting your circumstances when you do your financial aid documents. Many colleges will only entertain financial aid appeals for new information that you did not know at the time you applied. If you don't describe your circumstances up front, it may be too late later on.

 

In our case, we informed both colleges before, but both told us we needed to do a formal appeal after a "typical" decision had been made.  They also told us not to get upset when we saw the typical decision as they would modify it.  They did not tell us how much they would modify it.  We ended up quite pleased.  Essentially, they went back to the previous year's income and based our status on that asking only for a little bit of our "extra."  A little bit is fair (to us).

 

I would definitely be up front with colleges first.  It gives them a heads up.

[FaithManor]

I really think U of Alabama would be an excellent fit with high chances nof excellent merit aid.

[creekland]

I really think U of Alabama would be an excellent fit with high chances nof excellent merit aid.

 

The problem is, unless they've added it, UAl doesn't offer neuroscience.  I had my guy apply anyway as it was a financial safety, but he'd have had to pick a completely different major.  He loves Brain & Cognitive Science (even more than neuro which is an option at URoc) so I'm glad another option worked out for him/us.  Pitt worked out for us too, but it doesn't for everyone.

[FaithManor]

The problem is, unless they've added it, UAl doesn't offer neuroscience. I had my guy apply anyway as it was a financial safety, but he'd have had to pick a completely different major. He loves Brain & Cognitive Science (even more than neuro which is an option at URoc) so I'm glad another option worked out for him/us. Pitt worked out for us too, but it doesn't for everyone.

Oops. I forgot they didn't have that major. Sigh...such a generous school. I wish it could work for the OP. Back to the drawing board!

[Lori D.]

The problem is, unless they've added it, UAl doesn't offer neuroscience...

 

That's weird; both U of Alabama at Birmingham and at Huntsville came up on that search engine website I linked above when doing a search with the parameter of "schools with a neuroscience major"... ??

 

 

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 

 

Just went and checked... the search brought up ALL schools with a neuroscience PROGRAM, including PhD programs, which is what U of Alabama offers. Not undergrad.

 

So once you generate a list by program, you'll need to go through and see if it's an undergrad or graduate program.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Lori D.

[JanetC]

That's weird; both U of Alabama at Birmingham and at Huntsville came up on that search engine website I linked above when doing a search with the parameter of "schools with a neuroscience major"... ??

 

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 

 

Just went and checked... the search brought up ALL schools with a neuroscience PROGRAM, including PhD programs, which is what U of Alabama offers. Not undergrad.

 

 

OK - I know nothing about neuroscience, but I do have a kid interested in a field (Planetary Science) that is much more commonly offered as a PhD program than as an undergrad degree. We are researching schools where she can get the courses she needs to be competitive for grad school, because the list of schools where planetary science is an undergraduate major is way, way too small.

 

If there is no undergrad major in neuroscience, can you build one by majoring in one area and taking electives in others in order to get the same preparation for further scientific study?

[8filltheheart]

I agree that exploring additional options for completing their goals is a viable approach. My Dd has had to get creative in order to find schools that we can afford and where she can still meet her objectives. She is graduating from high school at almost college graduation level in Russian, yet she wants to continue Russian to a high level. We have interviewed more depts than I care to think about, but she has found schools where she can pursue her goals and get where she wants. Ironically, one of the best fits only offers a minor, not a major.

 

Fwiw, AL allows designing your own major through the new college.

[Lori D.]

Just wondering aloud... would an integrated degree or cross-disciplinary degree be helpful for students like these?

[Tiramisu]

OP here. Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

 

Another option is congitive science but that is also rare.

 

If we try to keep open a certain ROTC option, it gets even harder.

 

But it might come down to being flexible. And getting those SAT scores to see what automatic scholarships she would qualify for. All of that might mean a bigger school rather than a smaller one.

[tdemauro]

I agree that exploring additional options for completing their goals is a viable approach. My Dd has had to get creative in order to find schools that we can afford and where she can still meet her objectives. She is graduating from high school at almost college graduation level in Russian, yet she wants to continue Russian to a high level. We have interviewed more depts than I care to think about, but she has found schools where she can pursue her goals and get where she wants. Ironically, one of the best fits only offers a minor, not a major.

 

Fwiw, AL allows designing your own major through the new college.

Thank you for posting this information. My seventh grade dd, who is tutored by Julia Denne, recently completed the first textbook, which is equivalent to the first year of college Russian. My dd was so excited when she told me that she has completed a year of college level Russian, and I did start to wonder what she will do when she reaches 11th or 12th grade. Much like your daughter, my dd is planning to pursue Russian in college and would love to reach a high level in the language. Since she is only in 7th, I have not thought about researching colleges, and I probably would never have thought to interview depts. Good luck to your dd!!

[8filltheheart]

Thank you for posting this information. My seventh grade dd, who is tutored by Julia Denne, recently completed the first textbook, which is equivalent to the first year of college Russian. My dd was so excited when she told me that she has completed a year of college level Russian, and I did start to wonder what she will do when she reaches 11th or 12th grade. Much like your daughter, my dd is planning to pursue Russian in college and would love to reach a high level in the language. Since she is only in 7th, I have not thought about researching colleges, and I probably would never have thought to interview depts. Good luck to your dd!!

 

Options for majoring in Russian are really going to be influenced by your budget.  The critical language flagships (at this point there are 4: UCLA, UW-M, Portland State, and Bryn Mawr) have a graduation goal of superior.  Unfortunately, if you are out of state or do not want to attend Bryn Mawr (my dd would not fit in in that environment at all), these are not scholarship type schools.  

 

My dd had to take a unique approach b/c she has to have large merit scholarships.  Several of the depts she has found are willing to work with her to meet her personal goals (she would like to graduate from college at an advanced-high level if possible.  Most universities have intermediate-high to advanced-low as their college graduation objectives.)

 

My dd's situation is complicated by the fact that she is already in the advanced levels in French and she would like to continue to progress in French as well.  We have had a couple of French depts tell her not to attend there b/c they don't have anything to offer her.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

This topic actually came up in my IRL circle not all that long ago.  We came to an interesting conclusion.  We (sort of) agree with the colleges when it comes to home equity, because it's not really all that different than having (or not) money stashed in any other retirement or savings account (which also tend to be considered by CSS Profile schools).  In the end (at retirement) if one were to cash out and move on, it's all the same.  Someone having a million dollars in their house is pretty equivalent to $900,000 elsewhere (allowing for closing costs and other seller fees).  If schools were to take one thing out of play, it merely means everyone (planning ahead) would be shoving all their money into it instead of elsewhere.

 

Where we disagreed (as a group - not individuals - we all seemed to "agree" at the end) is that schools ought to take COL into play some.  There should be some way it's not black and white with that million dollar home in a low COL area vs high.  We think the same with Fafsa and income too though.  They need to look at what is "average" for the specific area assuming folks don't plan to cash out of one area and move to a low COL area just to retire.  Not everyone wants to do that.

I think they should consider COL too as well as for many folks there home is there home. Plus they should consider the age-I will be close to 60 and dh 55 when he is going to college so we really do not want to use our home as a piggy bank. Plus the fact that we are essentially priced out of our area even with the equity already built up.

 

Plus it incenses me that they are expecting folks to use their homes as piggy banks since that is a big factor in the last housing crash. Now perhaps if someone live in a Mcmansion, then maybe I can see them doing this. But not all folks whi have equity live in Mcmansions. Our home is a 750 sq ft 2 bed 2 bath apartment!

[creekland]

I think they should consider COL too as well as for many folks there home is there home. Plus they should consider the age-I will be close to 60 and dh 55 when he is going to college so we really do not want to use our home as a piggy bank. Plus the fact that we are essentially priced out of our area even with the equity already built up.

 

Plus it incenses me that they are expecting folks to use their homes as piggy banks since that is a big factor in the last housing crash. Now perhaps if someone live in a Mcmansion, then maybe I can see them doing this. But not all folks whi have equity live in Mcmansions. Our home is a 750 sq ft 2 bed 2 bath apartment!

 

Yes, there are a lot of gray areas when using any part of parent savings (home equity or otherwise) that need to be considered.  Ideally, everyone could get an individual look and decision.  My guess as to why that doesn't happen is that it would take up too much time.  I think they do it for students they really want, but not "average" acceptances.  There's only so much money they give out each year, so I imagine they try to be somewhat careful with it when large awards are made.

 

And just for anyone reading... Fafsa doesn't take home equity into play if I recall correctly - only CSS schools (or schools with their own financial aid forms).  It's these latter schools that sometimes offer 100% need based aid.  They work well for poor students (if those students can get in), but when one starts to get into middle class (with savings and/or home equity) there may not be agreement in what that need is.  CSS also cares about vehicles, investments, etc.

 

Income is looked at by both though, and that hits many in high COL areas.

[8filltheheart]

There are so many factors that they don't consider. They don't care about kids who have been raised, sent to college, and graduated. So by the time our 6 yr old is a high school sr, 7 kids will have been paid for, but our parental contribution will be the exact same as if she had been an only child bc there is zero overlap between her and her older siblings.

 

It is what it is. There are ways to make college doable. They just aren't necessarily ideal.

 

Fwiw, here is a good article describing home equity and schools' calculations: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/will-your-home-equity-hurt-financial-aid-chances/

[Tiramisu]

Yes, there are a lot of gray areas when using any part of parent savings (home equity or otherwise) that need to be considered.  Ideally, everyone could get an individual look and decision.  My guess as to why that doesn't happen is that it would take up too much time.  I think they do it for students they really want, but not "average" acceptances.  There's only so much money they give out each year, so I imagine they try to be somewhat careful with it when large awards are made.

 

And just for anyone reading... Fafsa doesn't take home equity into play if I recall correctly - only CSS schools (or schools with their own financial aid forms).  It's these latter schools that sometimes offer 100% need based aid.  They work well for poor students (if those students can get in), but when one starts to get into middle class (with savings and/or home equity) there may not be agreement in what that need is.  CSS also cares about vehicles, investments, etc.

 

Income is looked at by both though, and that hits many in high COL areas.

 

A very nice person here suggested I look at a certain school and by using their net calculator. I got an EFC that is right in the range of FAFSA and actually lower than our state universities. I was starting to feel very depressed about this and now I'm more hopeful that there are opportunities out there.

 

I know I should be happy that we have a house and some savings, which is a lot more than the rest of the world, but this situation still scares me. I really thought we were living responsibly but making priorities like paying off our mortgage at the expense of eating out, driving new cars, buying furniture, etc., but it feels like it's biting us in the butt. So here we are eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, driving a van with over 200,000 miles on it, and sitting on ripped furniture we found on the street, and we're still going to have a big problem sending my strongest student to college.

[creekland]

A very nice person here suggested I look at a certain school and by using their net calculator. I got an EFC that is right in the range of FAFSA and actually lower than our state universities. I was starting to feel very depressed about this and now I'm more hopeful that there are opportunities out there.

 

I know I should be happy that we have a house and some savings, which is a lot more than the rest of the world, but this situation still scares me. I really thought we were living responsibly but making priorities like paying off our mortgage at the expense of eating out, driving new cars, buying furniture, etc., but it feels like it's biting us in the butt. So here we are eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, driving a van with over 200,000 miles on it, and sitting on ripped furniture we found on the street, and we're still going to have a big problem sending my strongest student to college.

 

I'm glad you found a decent potential school and I really hope it works out for you!

 

One of the things I would put my focus on if we ever came into unlimited wealth (or a big lottery or similar) is scholarships for schooling (all types).  I see way too many at school who could do well if only the finances worked out.  They either can get loans and opt for that direction or they end up not going.  There aren't that many terrific stories from those not going (those who wanted to go, got accepted, but then couldn't - not those who wanted a different path from the start).  Around here drugs are a mighty tempting "escape from reality" route.  (sigh)  Granted, that could have happened at college too - we'll never know - but I wish they had gotten the chance of their dreams.

 

(Medical issues and costs would be another one of my unlimited wealth interests.  For a "top" first world country, we sure fall short in those areas IMO.)

 

There's our ideal world and there's the real world.  We work toward reaching the first while actually living in the second.  I wish you all the best at making your real world work out well!  

[katilac]

I really thought we were living responsibly but making priorities like paying off our mortgage at the expense of eating out, driving new cars, buying furniture, etc., but it feels like it's biting us in the butt. So here we are eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, driving a van with over 200,000 miles on it, and sitting on ripped furniture we found on the street, and we're still going to have a big problem sending my strongest student to college.

 

Keep in mind that less than 400 schools require the CSS profile. That leaves many, many excellent schools to choose from! 

 

Also, the CSS does consider factors like the cars you drive. That information does not go ignored.  

 

The amount you might gain in financial aid does not offset years of buying new cars and eating out, if that makes you feel better. 

[Tiramisu]

Keep in mind that less than 400 schools require the CSS profile. That leaves many, many excellent schools to choose from!

 

Also, the CSS does consider factors like the cars you drive. That information does not go ignored.

 

The amount you might gain in financial aid does not offset years of buying new cars and eating out, if that makes you feel better.

Thank you! That makes me feel a lot better that so few schools use the CSS profile.

 

Maybe we can upload videos to the CSS profile of us having to shut the broken van doors by slamming against them. 🤔

Edited November 4, 2016 by Tiramisu

[snowbeltmom]

Keep in mind that less than 400 schools require the CSS profile. That leaves many, many excellent schools to choose from! 

 

Also, the CSS does consider factors like the cars you drive. That information does not go ignored.  

 

The amount you might gain in financial aid does not offset years of buying new cars and eating out, if that makes you feel better. 

 

:iagree:

Also keep in mind that the CSS only looks at a small percentage of your savings and home equity (if they even consider home equity to begin with) when calculating your need.  The biggest factors in determining need are annual income and how many kids you have in college at the same time.

 

[Frances]

:iagree:

Also keep in mind that the CSS only looks at a small percentage of your savings and home equity (if they even consider home equity to begin with) when calculating your need. The biggest factors in determining need are annual income and how many kids you have in college at the same time.

 

Very true. My sister had her home completely paid off and over $150k in savings and investments plus a retirement plan from work, but due to her relatively low income as a single mom, her daughter got excellent financial aid at several CSS schools. Edited November 4, 2016 by Frances

[Tiramisu]

:iagree:

Also keep in mind that the CSS only looks at a small percentage of your savings and home equity (if they even consider home equity to begin with) when calculating your need. The biggest factors in determining need are annual income and how many kids you have in college at the same time.

 

Maybe the explanation is school specific and not CSS?

Edited November 4, 2016 by Tiramisu

[TravelingChris]

Also, the CSS does consider factors like the cars you drive.

 

Yes, but they do it in a stupid nonsensical way.  They ask you how much did you buy the car for?  When we were doing it for our last child, our pickup was 15 years old.  We really didn't remember how much we paid, it was so long ago and somehow in our four moves since then, we misplaced the sales receipt.  So we guessed something.  It shouldn't matter anyway what you paid for it- the only thing that should matter is current value.  Our cars are both worth around 5000 and the truck a little more like 6000.  Not like we can get cash out of those cars by switching to something cheaper really, 

[Julie of KY]

Does the CSS still ask about cars? I filled it out for the first time this year and I'm sure I didn't answer any car questions (even went back and looked over the questions to make sure I'm not dreaming).

 

Every school can use the information in the CSS however they want so the determination of what each individual school says you owe can be dramatically different from school to school.

 

 

[JanetC]

The CSS reconfigures itself based on the college list you give it. Some schools ask about cars, but neither of the two schools I filled it out for last year did. I don't know how common it is overall.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

DS's school asks about cars - owned or leased, purchase price, year purchased, who drives it, etc.  The first time I had to file the CSS I felt violated. It was worth it though; DS's aid package more than makes up for the discomfort.

 

We were told that they [fin aid] look at vehicles because some families 'invest' their money in what they drive. The fin aid representative told us that they look to see if the parents and student are driving brand new high end cars versus lower value, older vehicles. If the vehicle value to income ratio is off, it sets off a red flag. Say a family earns $60,000 a year and is looking for need based aid but both parents are driving expensive newer models (e.g. 2015 BMWs) that information is flagged in their fin aid file. Another family with similar income who lists vehicles from the 90's or early 2000's will not be flagged. Things that are looked at - are those 2015 BMWs paid for? under loan?

 

-

I know I tend to overshare and use anecdotal stories so I'll continue that trend.

Both of my kids have received far more aid than I ever thought possible. Their combined aid packages total more than our yearly gross income. Without these need based schools and the hoops we have had to jump, neither of my children would have been able to attend the schools they are in. One student will graduate with a moderate amount of loans (~ $20,000) but the other will have less than $2500(if we continue to receive the same amount of aid). I gladly provide any information requested and fill out appeals and explanatory forms as necessary. For us, it's been worth it.

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Scoutermom

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I also wonder about costs like car insurance and property taxes. We have a rather small house for where we live and it's paid off but we have property taxes that rival other peoples' mortgage payments or rent.

As far as I know car insurance isn't a factor but property taxes are. Those are reported on your tax returns and are taken into account.

[Kareni]

Options for majoring in Russian are really going to be influenced by your budget.  The critical language flagships (at this point there are 4: UCLA, UW-M, Portland State, and Bryn Mawr) have a graduation goal of superior.  Unfortunately, if you are out of state or do not want to attend Bryn Mawr (my dd would not fit in in that environment at all), these are not scholarship type schools.  

 

Bryn Mawr used to offer solely need based aid; however, that has changed in the recent past.  From this link:

 

 

"Scholarships - Bryn Mawr Merit Scholarship

 

U.S. citizens and permanent residents admitted to Bryn Mawr College as first-time undergraduate students are eligible for the Bryn Mawr Merit Scholarship regardless of demonstrated need. No additional application is required. Applicants are evaluated through a holistic review process of materials including, but not limited to, academic coursework and performance, involvement in school and community, leadership qualities, letters of recommendation, quality and content of writing, and potential to contribute in meaningful ways to the Bryn Mawr community.

 

Merit scholarships range from $12,000-$30,000 per year and are awarded for a maximum of eight semesters. They are renewable provided that the student is enrolled full-time at Bryn Mawr. Scholarships are non-negotiable and only awarded at the time of admission."

 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[8filltheheart]

 

Bryn Mawr used to offer solely need based aid; however, that has changed in the recent past.  From this link:

 

 

"Scholarships - Bryn Mawr Merit Scholarship

 

U.S. citizens and permanent residents admitted to Bryn Mawr College as first-time undergraduate students are eligible for the Bryn Mawr Merit Scholarship regardless of demonstrated need. No additional application is required. Applicants are evaluated through a holistic review process of materials including, but not limited to, academic coursework and performance, involvement in school and community, leadership qualities, letters of recommendation, quality and content of writing, and potential to contribute in meaningful ways to the Bryn Mawr community.

 

Merit scholarships range from $12,000-$30,000 per year and are awarded for a maximum of eight semesters. They are renewable provided that the student is enrolled full-time at Bryn Mawr. Scholarships are non-negotiable and only awarded at the time of admission."

 

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

Bryn Mawr's tuition is $46,000+, so even with a $30,000 scholarship, the cost is a lot.  But, Bryn Mawr's all female liberal environment would not fit my dd's personality, either.

[Kareni]

Bryn Mawr's tuition is $46,000+, so even with a $30,000 scholarship, the cost is a lot. 

 

Yes, I agree.  However, it is possible that an applicant would also qualify for some need based aid.

 

 

 But, Bryn Mawr's all female liberal environment would not fit my dd's personality, either.

 

I hope she'll find a college that fits her well.

 

Regards,

Kareni