Is this legal? Debt Collections...

[mom31257]

May debt collectors call neighbors to try and get you to give them a message?

 

I had someone call looking for my neighbor and saying this person had given my number as a reference. I know this neighbor has had some financial trouble, so I am assuming it might be debt collections. 

 

I doubt my neighbor gave my number as a reference, so that is most likely a lie. Is there anything illegal about all of this, though?

 

 

 

[Ravin]

Could be:

 

The FDCPA includes provisions intended to safeguard privacy. Discussions about the debt can only be held with (1) the individual, (2) the creditor, (3) an attorney representing one of the parties, and (4) a credit bureau. Public airing of your business intended to shame you into paying a debt is not allowed. Debt collectors:

• Cannot exchange (with other agencies) information about individuals who allegedly owe a debt.
• Cannot distribute a list of alleged debtors to its creditor subscribers.
• Cannot advertise a debt for sale.
• Cannot compile a list of debtors for sale to others.
• Cannot leave messages with third parties, asking them to have the debtor call the collector.

https://www.privacyrights.org/debt-collection-practices-when-hardball-tactics-go-too-far

 

But, not all collectors fall under that law:

 

4. Debts and Collections Not Covered by the FDCPA

Does the FDCPA cover all collection actions?

No. Here are examples of debt collection activities that are not subject to the FDCPA:

• A creditor that collects its own overdue accounts is not subject to the FDCPA. The law defines "debt collector" as one in the business, the principal purpose of which is the collection of debts due another. But in-house collections are covered by the FDCPA if they create the impression that they are either an independent collector or a governmental agency. State collection laws such as California's may apply to both outside and in-house collection activities. Where they do, the collector so defined is subject to federal law. 
• Government employees whose job is to collect debts as an official duty are not covered by the FDCPA. Student loans and debts collected by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) are a good example of debts collected by government employees. However, when the government refers collection of debts to anoutside agency, the FDCPA applies. The U.S. Department of Education sometimes refers collection of student loans to an outside collector. For more on student loans and collections, see the Department of Education's website. 
• Process server, that is someone attempting to serve a copy of a court order enforcing payment of a debt, is not covered by the FDCPA, provided its efforts are limited to the service of process.
• Consumer credit counseling services are not subject to the FDCPA if the service is a nonprofit organization and receives payments from the debtor for distribution to creditors.

 

I rabbit-trailed from that link to the FTC:

 

https://www.privacyrights.org/debt-collection-practices-when-hardball-tactics-go-too-far

 

An exerpt from the FTC's information:

 

C. Examples of Unfair, Deceptive and/or Abusive Acts or Practices Depending on the facts and circumstances, the following non-exhaustive list of examples of conduct related to the collection of consumer debt could constitute UDAAPs. Accordingly, the Bureau will be watching these practices closely.  Collecting or assessing a debt and/or any additional amounts in connection with a debt (including interest, fees, and charges) not expressly authorized by the agreement creating the debt or permitted by law.26  Failing to post payments timely or properly or to credit a consumer’s account with payments that the consumer submitted on time and then charging late fees to that consumer.27  Taking possession of property without the legal right to do so.  Revealing the consumer’s debt, without the consumer’s consent, to the consumer’s employer and/or co-workers.28

 

28 See, e.g., Compl. ¶¶ 24 & 30-31, FTC v. Cash Today, Ltd., 3:08-cv-590 (D. Nev. Nov. 12, 2008), available at http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0723093/081112cmp0923093.pdf, (asserting that Cash Today engaged in unfair collection practices in violation of Section 5 of the FTC Act by, among other things, disclosing the existence of consumer’s debt to employers, co-workers, and other third parties despite being told by consumers not to contact their workplaces); FTC v. LoanPointe, LLC., 2:10 CV 00225-DAK, 2011 WL 4348304, at *5 -6 (D. Utah Sept. 16, 2011) (finding that disclosure of existence and amount of debt to consumer’s employer without consumer’s prior approval constitutes an unfair practice under the FTC Act).

 

In your shoes, I would suggest to the neighbor that they contact call http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/ and report them.

 

You can also contact: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1 yourself and report them based on the phone number they called from.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Ravin

[ChocolateReignRemix]

May debt collectors call neighbors to try and get you to give them a message?

 

I had someone call looking for my neighbor and saying this person had given my number as a reference. I know this neighbor has had some financial trouble, so I am assuming it might be debt collections. 

 

I doubt my neighbor gave my number as a reference, so that is most likely a lie. Is there anything illegal about all of this, though?

 

I started to reply but will just say +1 to ravin.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wow.  Almost sounds like a flipping scam.  Although I don't know what kind of scam that would be.  Crazy...I'd be annoyed.

 

 

[Ravin]

Wow.  Almost sounds like a flipping scam.  Although I don't know what kind of scam that would be.  Crazy...I'd be annoyed.

 

Debt collectors can be incredibly shady and awful even without any scams involved.

[Farrar]

I don't know about the legality, but it made me think of the John Oliver episode about Debt Buyers. So, so much corruption and sleaze. That sort of behavior is in there. And the explanation that sometimes the debts are already paid but the debt owners just keep coming.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Debt collectors can be incredibly shady and awful even without any scams involved.

 

Yeah when we first moved to NY we had a new number and the last person who had it probably owed a lot of people money.  We got called and called and called for a year.  And a lot of these places were just automated calls leaving one no way to tell them they had the wrong person/number.

[zoobie]

Make sure to tell them never to call you again. This probably doesn't address calling a neighbor (wow!), but it's good info: http://www.clark.com/know-your-rights-when-dealing-debt-collectors

[busymotherof4]

Good luck. We had debt collectors calling us forever when we moved and got a new phone #. Truly awful. They wouldn't stop calling even when we asked them to because we weren't the people they were looking for and only those people could give permission to stop calling. I should have looked for legal ways to stop it but I was too busy.

We also go a phone call from Wells Fargo saying our home was going to forclosure soon. We were about 4 month into a new mortgage with them. After talking to them a bit we figured out that they were looking for someone else. They were great. They fixed the info in their system and that was the only call we got about that.

For sure tell them to stop calling but don't count on it

[need2read]

It's not ethical but not exactly illegal either. We had one calling us constantly for my SIL a couple of years ago. SIL has never lived with us (she's never even lived in the same state!) has a different last name than us and had actually paid the debt in question. I guess their thought is that if they keep calling your family and friends it will shame you into just paying. It didn't work for SIL-she lawyered up. We also still occasionally get phone calls and mail for the previous owners of our house. It's a giant pain.

 

 

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[City Mouse]

My brother did actually put my phone number and name down as a reference on several things the eventually defaulted on. I used to get calls all the time about him. I did not e en know how to contact him to pass on the messages. Thankfull the calls stopped when we moved and changed phone numbers

[Carrie12345]

I know my mother was getting phone calls for my husband's side of our family.  I REALLY doubt that person ever put her down as a reference.  They simply looked for family connections, probably the most embarrassing ones they could trace.

 

I've gotten them for my sister, but I'm sure she DID put me down as a reference.

[bethben]

i used to get multiple calls asking for my brother a few years back.  They kept asking for his number telling me that they were collecting a debt from him.  I never gave them his number yet they kept calling me.  The weird thing about it is that he would never put my number down as a contact number anywhere since we hadn't lived in the same state for over 20 years by that point.  Also, my last name has been different than his for over 20 years also.  How did they find me?!?  Why were they calling me of all people?!?

[TranquilMind]

You have to pay $12.00 a month to get an unlisted number here, but there was no restriction on what name you could use to list your landline.  I changed our landline phone book last name to a very common one.  Well, that brought on a flood of debt collectors looking for "Mr. Jones", who apparently owed a lot of money.  I eventually unplugged the phone.  

 

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Yeah when we first moved to NY we had a new number and the last person who had it probably owed a lot of people money. We got called and called and called for a year. And a lot of these places were just automated calls leaving one no way to tell them they had the wrong person/number.

I've had my phone number for SIX YEARS, and still get calls for 2 different people.

[QueenCat]

Many loan forms ask for your nearest living relative that does not live with you. My guess is that is often how collectors get numbers of siblings and such.

[Anne in CA]

My guess is that asking to give them a message is not illegal, but telling you it is about debt is. Depends on what state you live in. I have zero respect for debt collection. Decent people get scammed all the time. When I was first married we had lots of collectors on our tail about dh's ex. She never paid a bill in her life. I learned that the local hospital would sell the same bill to different collection agencies. Proving it was a nightmare. I finally got a good lawyer and ruthlessly settled with them all on the condition that they never attempt to collect a debt from me or any of me descendants again. I don't even know what someone in a big city with endless collection agencies would do in a similar situation.

[Saddlemomma]

Good luck. We had debt collectors calling us forever when we moved and got a new phone #. Truly awful. They wouldn't stop calling even when we asked them to because we weren't the people they were looking for and only those people could give permission to stop calling. I should have looked for legal ways to stop it but I was too busy.

We also go a phone call from Wells Fargo saying our home was going to forclosure soon. We were about 4 month into a new mortgage with them. After talking to them a bit we figured out that they were looking for someone else. They were great. They fixed the info in their system and that was the only call we got about that.

For sure tell them to stop calling but don't count on it

 

 

This happened to us, too, when we moved here (ME).  No matter what we did, we couldn't get the calls stopped.  After about the 5th year of living here, we finally were able to get a decent debt collector who did refer us to his supervisor when we asked (for about the 400th time).  We explained to the manager the situation, the duration of our harassment, the refusal of his subordinates to forward our requests, and our willingness to pursue legal action for mental duress/harassment if our number wasn't immediately removed from their records.  I'm not sure we had a legal leg to stand on, but the calls ceased.  

 

We've been here 9 years now and once in a blue moon, some new debt collector will call for the exact same people, but it's just the one call and they remove our phone number from their list when we ask.

 

I've never heard of a debt agency using a third party though.  That sounds very suspicious to me.  I think I would ask the caller to identify their company, phone number, and any other info so I could check on them.  I would also immediate tell them to delete my name from their records.  Very strange.