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[alisoncooks]

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Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[Ravin]

I would build up in steps. First, have her give an oral response in discussion with you, and record it. Then, have her write based on what she said.

[mom2bee]

Require a minimum length responce, so I would look over the work in advance and specify a minimum number of sentences for each section.

[Hunter]

When kids learn to work in the home and especially at a paid job or official volunteering, almost all the academic problems like this disappear. It is fascinating to watch. I understand it partially, but not enough not to remain fascinated.

 

Over the years, I learned to start putting  kids to work, instead of trying to teach them to work harder at academics. This was easy with my oldest. I saw it working. I knew I needed to copy it with the younger, but it wasn't always easy to accomplish with the younger.

 

:grouphug:

 

BTDT with this kind of thing. It wasn't fun. 

[Guest]

Ask her the question, out loud.

 

Have her tell you, verbally, her answer.

 

Write down what she says.

 

Have her copy what she said.

 

Dictate to her what she said, and have her write it (again).

 

Eventually she'll figure out that you can skip all those steps and go from answer==> writing the answer down on paper herself, but the answer MUST be satisfactory. But use the verbal--copywork--dictation sequence. If she's had writing on the backburner all this time, she's missed that anyway.

Edited September 13, 2016 by OKBud

[lanalouwho]

I would ask her the question orally and have her list out bullet points (or list them for her until she got the hang of it.) Then have her write a paragraph using those points as a reference.

 

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[lllll]

nm

Edited November 5, 2016 by cathey

[Earthmerlin]

A rubric? A word bank (i.e, these words need to be included in your response)? Graphic organizers as pre-writing activities?

[Sahamamama]

Oldest DD was a struggling reader for so long that I let her get away with the bare minimum in written work. Now that she's caught up with reading, I'm struggling to get her to extend herself when writing. For example, she read a short passage about global warming killing frogs by causing clouds to block sunshine, temperatures to change at night, a fungus to grow and harm them, etc. She was asked, "What happened as temperatures went up in places where the frogs lived?" And her written response was, "Frogs died."

 

Well, yes, but....Why? How? And she's like, "I don't know..." (But she does!)

 

That's just an example. Her written answers are almost always too short and lacking details ("He was sad." "They ran." "Yes.")

 

How can I encourage her to stretch a little. She can write comfortably, though her spelling needs help. She knows and retains and understands...but chooses the easy out.

 

What would you do?

(I do make her rewrite until I'm satisfied she's made an effort.)

 

Well, what I would do would be to (1) give her a placement assessment in Writing with Ease, and then (2) start her on the appropriate level and consistently work with her through the lessons.

 

I would use WWE precisely because her response was "Frogs died." She is absolutely right to say, in  response to the prompt she was given, "Frogs died." Yup, that is what happened as temperatures went up. Those frogs died. If you want a better response, you need a better set of questions. There may be so much more that you would like her to write, but her response actually answers the question she was given.

 

What I've realized over the years we've been using Writing with Ease is that Susan Wise Bauer seems to have written this course for these kinds of young writers -- the kids who would write "Frogs died," if given half a chance. Writing with Ease doesn't teach writing the way you've described above. That is to say, it doesn't start by giving a student a (rather) complex passage, followed by a (rather) open-ended, vague question (that could be answered tersely, and still be "answered"), and providing little to no guidance on the required complexity of the response. In that approach to writing, a reluctant writer will write things like "He was sad" or "She ran." Of course. If you don't naturally like to write, then the shorter, the better! :) Usually, the student has actually completed the assignment, as given, but done it succinctly. What we tend to do when we don't care for the student's response is to pick apart the response. Often, though, the assignment and the scaffolding to get the student from Point A to Point B are lacking. This approach to writing instruction seems to assume that if we throw a lot of words at students (e.g., reading complex passages, using open-ended questions designed for natural writers), then they will throw a lot of words back at us. It doesn't always work.

 

Instead of the "Global Warming" type of assignment you described, WWE begins with simple, doable skills and incrementally stretches the student's abilities (and willingness) to express thoughts on paper. Any explicit teaching the student needs in order to succeed is right there, along with better questions, to guide the student's answer into eventual fullness and depth of expression.

 

We're working through WWE 3 for the second time with twin 4th graders, and through WWS 1 for the first time with a 6th grader (we don't do WWE 4). I am impressed with my 6th grader's ability to handle the complexities of the passages and assignments in WWS 1, but she didn't get there overnight, that's for certain. Writing with Ease provided much of the groundwork that built the skills I now see coming into play in my daughter's more advanced (though still intermediate) writing. HTH.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Sahamamama

[alisoncooks]

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Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[OneStepAtATime]

If your child struggled for a long time with reading, then they may also have a lot of glitches with writing and especially summation.  It involves different processes than reading.  She may need a lot of step by step, systematic instruction and encouragement to learn how to take the words she has read and then turn that around into something meaningful to write.  This may not be intuitive at all for her.  And some kids really struggle with particular types of material.  For some, fact based writing can be exceedingly difficult.  While for others it can be hard for them to write about something fiction based.  Some just have a hard time regardless of the topic or type of material they are trying to summarize.

 

I agree with the up thread responses.  Start with an oral response.  Write it down for her.  Then have her copy it.  Discuss it with her.  See what she might think worth adding, but again do it orally, scribe for her, then have her copy it over again.

 

Or start her with a formal writing program like IEW that will help her identify key words to focus on and some step by step plan for how to do what you are asking her to do.  Give her the scaffolding to learn the process. Writing, even simple writing, is not easy or natural for everyone.  

[PeterPan]

I wouldn't assume this is all volitional.  If she *could* do it, she probably *would*.  Now it *is* possible she's very ADHD and just not engaged.  Does she do it for ANY topic? My dd has ADHD, low processing speed, and poor word retrieval.  With that kind of mix, it's easier to shut down than to retrieve the words from her brain, process, and organize.  For her, it helps to have time, privacy, to know the questions ahead of time (it's an accommodation in her paperwork), and scaffolding/supports like key words, outlines, etc.  But knowing the question ahead of time and having lots of time to process helps her IMMENSELY.

 

Then you get someone like my ds, who takes that to the next mile.  Someone over on LC was selling a book in this series so I was looking into it.  Might inspire you, or it might be worth buying, considering the download is only like $15 and it would be targeted to exactly maybe what you need.

 

https://www.linguisystems.com/itemdetail.php?itemid=10413

 

That's the first book in a 6 book series.  Linguisystems only sells therapy materials, so you're moving up to more targeted materials, yes.  Your in-between step would be the Diana Hanbury King Writing Skills books.  I'm not a huge, huge lover of them, but then I haven't gone through this stage yet.  They're pretty standard fare recommended for dyslexics.  So the Writing Skills would be your typical option.  They look like any other program, just with small steps for more practice.  The Linguisystems series I'm linking is fascinating because it actually digs in on the concepts to go ok, you really need to understand what a detail is, what the POINT is, etc.  Some kids' brains really don't figure this out!  That will be my ds, so I anticipate we'll probably run through these.  

 

So that's three layers (at least) of solutions depending on how far this issue goes.  You can't go wrong providing support.  If nothing else, you bring in the support and it turns out she flies through it.  

[J-rap]

Maybe begin by asking specific questions like Who, What, Where, How, etc.  (You can be even more specific if necessary.  Who is this about?  When did it happen?  What happened next?)  She can answer them herself, in writing, any way that she wants.  But then require her to take that information and put in into a paper with complete sentences.

 

 

[Ms.Ivy]

When my kids start writing around 3rd grade they all start off like that. This is what I do. "Susie, imagine Daddy just came home, and you walked right up to him and said, 'Frogs died.' Would Daddy know what you were talking about?" And then Susie laughs and comes up with a sentence that could be repeated to Daddy that makes sense without the context of the question. Don't know if that type of exercise would help your DD but it has helped mine! :-)

[Sneezyone]

When my kids start writing around 3rd grade they all start off like that. This is what I do. "Susie, imagine Daddy just came home, and you walked right up to him and said, 'Frogs died.' Would Daddy know what you were talking about?" And then Susie laughs and comes up with a sentence that could be repeated to Daddy that makes sense without the context of the question. Don't know if that type of exercise would help your DD but it has helped mine! :-)

 

This is EXACTLY where my son is and I've used this same example to get him to expand his personal narratives. Dude, you can't just launch into the tale with no context/background. Explain how the whole thing started, what happens next, then get to the punchline/point of your tale. I think the suggestion of using more familiar/exciting subject matter, like recounting a favorite activity/story, is helping my DS. It's a long slog though. He is not all chatty and may never be a prolific writer.

[alisoncooks]

 

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Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[Rebel Yell]

When my kids start writing around 3rd grade they all start off like that. This is what I do. "Susie, imagine Daddy just came home, and you walked right up to him and said, 'Frogs died.' Would Daddy know what you were talking about?" And then Susie laughs and comes up with a sentence that could be repeated to Daddy that makes sense without the context of the question. Don't know if that type of exercise would help your DD but it has helped mine! :-)

  

This is EXACTLY where my son is and I've used this same example to get him to expand his personal narratives. Dude, you can't just launch into the tale with no context/background. Explain how the whole thing started, what happens next, then get to the punchline/point of your tale. I think the suggestion of using more familiar/exciting subject matter, like recounting a favorite activity/story, is helping my DS. It's a long slog though. He is not all chatty and may never be a prolific writer.

YES to both of these.

If the OPs signature is current, her DD is 10? And this type of writing, and being a more recent reader, is newer to her. The girl answered the question succinctly and directly. Many adults I know struggle with that, LOL!

 

I see it as answering a story problem in math, you would just give the answer as "10" or maybe "10 frogs" but you wouldn't give a long detailed answer relating the entire story in the word problem, KWIM?

 

So it may just take practice, and making it clear before the assignment what type of answer is expected, possibly with examples from similar questions.