"What your Nth grader needs to know" by E.D. Hirsch

[Shred Betty]

Do you use this series? Like / dislike? Strengths & weaknesses?

 

It gets good reviews on Amazon, lots of "essential to homeschoolers" and "must have" recommendations.

 

It looks like quick and easy access to lots of topics and stories. On the other hand that "quick & easy access" comes at a price, that it looks an awful lot like a textbook. All those little text bubbles and so on.

 

But if I'm doing math, language arts, history, science, reading other literature, etc by curriculum not self designed lesson plans, is it a waste of time money or energy?

 

Thanks!

 

-GG

[Roadrunner]

I think it's a good reference book to have a general idea about grade level knowledge. It isn't a curriculum though. You can get ideas from it, but it's definitely a nice have item, not a must have.

[fralala]

I like looking at it over the summer, but I also use CKLA, the (free) language arts program available from the same foundation from which those books originate.

 

If you like the mission of the Core Knowledge foundation, it's a great text for making sure your child knows the things (symbols, sayings, songs, stories, and so forth) that E.D. Hirsch considers important to our country's shared culture and body of knowledge. (I do, obviously. But getting hung up on the sequence of the acquisition of this knowledge could be anxiety-producing, and because we have the wonderful country we do, we could all argue passionately about the things this books include and leave out.)

 

It is relatively weak in math and science-- cursory, perhaps, is the word, and its presentation of math for instance doesn't align itself with the way it's presented through a program like Singapore Math.

 

The part I've really used is the songs-- I always am looking for new songs to sing as lullabies, and it has prodded me many a time to say (with a song or rhyme): Oh, yeah! I knew that when I was a kid, and my kids have never heard it! I've gotta introduce them to that!

 

If you can get a library copy, I don't think it's a waste of time or energy. But if you can't, I do think it might be a waste of money, esp. since you could just go to the CKLA website, look at their info. for each grade, and get an idea of what kind of knowledge they consider essential.

[rutheart]

I've found it's most helpful for subjects that I'm not buying a curricula for, or an incomplete curricula. It helps me create a list of topics to cover (or supplement). I usually get a copy from the library and take notes as I read. If nothing else, the lists of common phrases/idioms is worth looking at.

 

Overall, it does seem more helpful for younger grades, since older grades will have already covered some material previously.

 

FWIW, I do know of a homeschooler that uses the series as a basis for homeschooling cheaply. She buys that book used and uses it as a complete grade syllabus. She finds resources for everything online, keeping her homeschooling budget at $100/year for 2 kids. That's probably the kind of people leaving glowing reviews.

 

Ruth

[strange_girl]

The K-8 series is available as a free download at coreknowledge.org :)

 

It is not a curriculum. More like a guideline to make sure all the bases are getting covered.

[momma2three]

It was written to fill in the content gaps in a standard public school curriculum.

IMO, it provides a nice, basic, outline of age-appropriate topics and ideas.  It's not some absolute definitive list, but reviewing it can give some good ideas of topics to study.  I like them.

[Zoo Keeper]

I wouldn't call it essential... but I use the series as part of our curriculum.

 

We have used the older (not in color and revised) series as the basis for our American History studies for years.  We use the Artner's Guide set and read a bit each year, adding in fiction/nonfiction reading as needed or wanted. The NtK books have made a decent spine that is easy to use and add in more when we have the urge.

 

 We study world history separately using Story of the World.

[JulieA97]

We have the Preschool and the Kindergarten books.  They are fine and its nice to have a book with a compilation of various poems, stories and a gentle intro to history.  The preschool and the Kindergarten book share some of the same stories, however the preschool book has more illustrations.  I think its fine to have it and nice to have a general outline of some things to add but not required at all.

 

There is a charter school here that is part of the Core Knowledge group meaning they use their curriculum.  I think the kids there get more history than the public schools but not sure there is a huge difference otherwise.  We toured it but they assign crazy amounts of homework and brag about it.  Homework every night and weekend starting in Kindergarten.  Lots of people love the school and there is a waiting list to get in but not my cup of tea..

 

My son will be going to a magnet school next year so I plan to use these books, Sonlight/Bookshark reading lists, SOTW and Singapore to do afterschooling.  The books won't replace curriculum but just add to it.

[cintinative]

I have them but only use them for the art and music sections. Since I buy them used, they are pretty cheap and I am not worried about it.

 

We also talked a bit about the "expressions" (??) section this past year.  For example, "a dime a dozen" and things like that--phrases used commonly for which they might not know the meaning.

[luuknam]

I think it's a good reference book to have a general idea about grade level knowledge. It isn't a curriculum though.

 

 

From what I remember, the books specifically state they're not a complete curriculum. They're intended to be the bare minimum that *every* kid should know (the 'core'). I used the pre-K and K books, but haven't touched the higher grades books much (I've got them up to 5th grade, buying them used for cheap).

[Jackie]

I've picked up these books on several occasions and always end up putting them back down and walking away. The knowledge presented in the books feels so randomly chosen and doesn't line up with what I consider basic knowledge. I'd rather choose my own stories, poems, songs, and facts to present.

[Lori D.]

These past thread that might be of interest to you:

 

"How Do you use the Core Knowledge Series?"

"How do you use Core Knowledge books (What Your _ Grader Needs to Know books)?"

"Anyone here use Core Knowledge (What Your _ Grader Needs to Know)?"

 

We had programs for each subject that fit DSs well, and then used these Core Knowledge books as one of a number of supplements -- so, dipped in and used as much or as little as worked for us or as it filled a need. We used the grade 2-grade 6 books over about 4 grades (when DSs were grades 2/3, 3/4, and grades 4/5). For speed, I'm just cutting and pasting my response from one of those past threads below. BEST of luck in deciding if this resource fits your homeschooling style or need! Warmest regards, Lori D.

_________________________

 

"We used the "What Your ... Grader Needs to Know" books by Core Knowledge in an informal way here. They were older editions (c. 1999 and early 2000s). We read through about 1-2 books per year, 1-2 pages at a sitting, several times a week as part of a family "together time". We had the grade 2 through grade 6 books, and we dipped into various books at different times in different ways over the course of several years.

For example, we took about 5 minutes 2 times a week to read the poetry and literature selections during our morning "together time".

After lunch a few days a week, we did the famous sayings/adages as a fun "Wheel of Fortune" game (fill in the blanks for the letters of the saying on the white board like Hangman, used dice instead of a wheel), and then read about the saying/discussed it.

We read the art and music sections for about 10-15 minutes once a week whenever we did art or music.

We read a history or science section whenever it fit in with whatever history or science we were covering at the time.

We never really used the math section -- although, I sometimes would read through it on my own to make sure we were covering all the math topics for that grade level, or to get an idea of a different way to present a math topic that a child was not getting."

Edited July 7, 2016 by Lori D.

[vonbon]

I've picked up these books on several occasions and always end up putting them back down and walking away. The knowledge presented in the books feels so randomly chosen and doesn't line up with what I consider basic knowledge. I'd rather choose my own stories, poems, songs, and facts to present.

 

I have a few of these books.  I basically read or re-read the applicable grade level prior to each school year starting.  I proceed to freak out over anything we might have missed, resolve to do better at "covering all bases / leaving no gaps" (which is, of course, impossible in any education), and then, a few days later, come up with the previous poster's response to all of it.  

 

Maybe you of a stronger constitution and can read things like that without freaking out about gaps like I do. :chillpill:  :001_rolleyes: If so, they might be of use to you.

 

Good info and a place to start, but much of the knowledge is randomly-chosen (just the opinion of the author or group of editors).  Good opinions, in my opinion, (LOL), but still, randomly-selected.  How can anyone say which parts of history should be included for X grade, for example, and which parts should be left out?  

 

We're using Singapore math, Story of the World for history...these cycles and others don't necessarily match up with the Hirsch books.  For me, borrowed from the library or bought cheaply used is the way to go with these.  

Edited July 7, 2016 by vonbon

[vonfirmath]

It was written to fill in the content gaps in a standard public school curriculum.

 

IMO, it provides a nice, basic, outline of age-appropriate topics and ideas.  It's not some absolute definitive list, but reviewing it can give some good ideas of topics to study.  I like them.

 

Interesting. because that's pretty much how I use it.  Reading the various stories, etc afterschool and on summers.

 

[luuknam]

but still, randomly-selected.  How can anyone say which parts of history should be included for X grade, for example, and which parts should be left out? 

 

I never took them literally like that. I figured they meant that everybody should know these things by the time they graduate (or sooner, since the series ends before high school), and that they divided the things into grade levels to give you a possible path through all of the 'necessary' things. And I figured that the title "what your nth grader needs to know" was just marketing. Though I think they did want national standardization, but not because there's only one way to do things right. There isn't.

[freelylearned]

I would suggest checking them out at the library before you buy them, especially since you are using your own curriculum with its own scope and sequence already. I think the books are helpful, but not necessary.

 

I check out "Books to Build On," also by Core Knowledge, all the time from our library. It has lists of children's books to go along with each topic in the CK sequence. The book selections for each topic are all really good.

[redsquirrel]

I've never been particularly impressed by them.  I see them all the time at library sales etc or for free.  The only thing I liked about them was the section on songs or nursery rhymes. Those were fun when the kids were little.  Of course, now they can't remember any of them, lol, so I am not sure it mattered if we learned them.

[Reverie]

I purchased used editions for Prek- 1st grade for a few dollars each. I think they're nice as a guide to see what 'should' be covered if you want to see if you're hitting the marks, and a nice collection of age-appropriate stories, sayings, and poems.

 

I'm sure the information could be found elsewhere online, though.

 

The Core Knowledge Sequence book gives an overview of K-8, with sections for different subjects per grade, poetry/fable/saying recommendations, etc. but does not include the actual stories. It's sort of like the 'What Your Nth Grader Needs To Know" in a K-8 outline version.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Core-knowledge-sequence-Content-guidelines/dp/1890517208/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467939215&sr=8-1&keywords=core+knowledge+sequence

[Emba]

I bought the one for fourth grade this year, and I found it not helpful.  I have pulled it out from time to time (okay, maybe five times).  Once to explain some idioms, once for history (SO dry, SO not retained by DD), a few times just to see if there's anything I feel like is missing from my curriculum that I need to cover. 

 

I'm selling it.  I might check the one out from the library to look over for 5th grade, but I definitely won't buy it. Wish I had done that to begin with.

[Garga]

They are an outline.

 

They are not a curriculum, especially for language arts and math. A curriculum shows you how to teach things and has practice problems to work on to help the student learn.

 

We used these books as a fun little supplement to what we were already doing for school.

[2_girls_mommy]

These are awesome to have for the sayings, songs, poetry, and even for excerpts from history and literature to pull from in a pinch or instead of the full library book always.

 

I have used them like a PP for a guideline for a subject that I am not buying a full curric for like music and art.  I would read it aloud to the child.  We would do any activities.  I would check out videos, books, and CDs on the topics so that we could explore further. Or I would do that alongside another curric that covered different things.

 

I have rarely used the science or math sections or the English grammar as I always use a full curric for those.

 

But in general, these are good references to have on hand.  I just recently pulled the 6th grade one off of my shelf for my upcoming 7th grader to read from this year, as we didn't use it last year for 6th.  I plan to assign poetry reading from it and the sayings pages at least.

 

At one point in elementary, I did use literature units from the free program listed above and math units in  kindergarten for one of mine that was having trouble with a traditional math text.

[Micron4]

I thought these books looked neat and picked up a few when they had them at Costco. To my surprise, my dd picked up the one for her grade and read most of it on her own! She loves the poetry, the sayings and the snippets of stories. She will browse through the history, art, and science, but I'm pretty sure she ignores the math part.

 

That was 3 years ago--since then every summer she asks me to buy her the next book in the series. I think she takes the title "What your nth grader *NEEDS* to know" quite literally. :)

[Shred Betty]

The K-8 series is available as a free download at coreknowledge.org :)

It is not a curriculum. More like a guideline to make sure all the bases are getting covered.

 

I checked out this link and - wow really detailed - website briefly, what I saw in PDFs for k-8 format (!) looked more like the outline version someone else mentioned... I think I'd go nuts looking at that thing! Since my DD 7 is an avid reader I am picturing her just enjoying the actual stories etc herself in free read time, something like this:

 

I thought these books looked neat and picked up a few when they had them at Costco. To my surprise, my dd picked up the one for her grade and read most of it on her own! She loves the poetry, the sayings and the snippets of stories. She will browse through the history, art, and science, but I'm pretty sure she ignores the math part. ...

 

 

It's also great to hear how some of you use it in a pinch instead of primary sources from the library or use the art and music sections, I think this will fit in with us well esp since I can get it cheap!

 

 

These past thread that might be of interest to you:

 

"How Do you use the Core Knowledge Series?"

"How do you use Core Knowledge books (What Your _ Grader Needs to Know books)?"

"Anyone here use Core Knowledge (What Your _ Grader Needs to Know)?". ....

. Thank you for providing these links and the game idea that's a keeper! I had searched the forums before starting his thread with no hits... I knew that couldn't be right :).

 

My Dd is SO cute, whenever she is reading something that references something else (right now for eg. Dahl's Matilda mentions Kipling) her eyes get big as saucers and she grows about an inch and has to say "I know about that!! I know Kipling!! I know what a limerick is!!" So I think the adages and snippets will be up her alley, and bringing it with me for "boat school" days will be better than 4 separate library books.

 

Thanks for all of your input!

[SEGway]

At our house, I assign 20-30 min. of non-fiction reading for most of the elementary years (after they can read fluently). I don't care if it's in the same subject every day. Or the same book every day. I just want them to pick something non-fiction. (I see this as a separate skill to cultivate apart from reading quality literature. They gravitate towards fiction, so I want them to practice with non-fiction. Also, I can sneak in some library history/science of my choice when they get tired of our home selection.)

 

All that to say, if they just can't pick anything on their own, I usually suggest one of the Hirsch books. They can have any of the six books in hand and just flip through until they find something that won't make them poke out their eyeballs. Most days. 

 

Sometimes they actually do pick them up on their own time. But, not super often.