Say it isn't So! Cop Writes about Extent of Hook-Up Culture on Campus

[TranquilMind]

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/campus-drunk-confidential-rape/

 

Good lord.  I knew it was kind of bad today after that terrifying Vanity Fair hook-up piece I read a year or so ago, but not this bad.  This is a straight-from-the-horse's mouth piece from a police detective as to what he typically sees.

I once worked briefly in sex crimes long ago, and it was pretty bad.  Can't imagine working in this day in and day out. What the HECK are these kids thinking today if engaging in binge drinking? 

 

I really don't understand what has happened to the world and why on earth it is normal that "anything other than PIV (p*n** in v*g****) sex is on the table" with absolute STRANGERS.  Hello?  Disease!?  But then I came into adulthood during the AIDS crisis so people were understandably wary of random sexual encounters. 

 

Oh my God.   I have one in university.  I hope we did better than this.  I know this one doesn't like alcohol much, because of the way it affects this one, but I had one incident when I was young and stupid where I had two Long Island Ice Teas.  It was hot and the first one went down fast, because it didn't taste like it was going to pack a wallop.  About midway through the second, I ended up on the bathroom floor, literally.  Thankfully, I was with REAL friends, who just took me home and put me to bed by myself and left.  It could have gotten real bad, real fast had I just been with people I barely knew. 

 

It was just an act of stupidity.  I had no idea of the risk I was taking.  How many others does this happen to regularly with worse results?   Maybe we need to talk to our young people more.  I know I have some really serious, in-depth conversations, since I haven't had a drink in 23 years, but maybe everyone has assumed normal usage.

Anyway, thoughts?    

 

[hornblower]

fwiw, this was posted last week in the Stanford rape thread. We've already btdt. 

[TranquilMind]

fwiw, this was posted last week in the Stanford rape thread. We've already btdt. 

 

Oh, sorry. I missed that part, I suppose. 

Just sharing my own thoughts on it and adding my little story. 

Edited June 15, 2016 by TranquilMind

[Bluegoat]

I'd be interested to have some insight ino why some cultures seem to embrace binge drinking, and others don't.  I've not been able to come up with an answer I find really satisfying.

[TranquilMind]

I'd be interested to have some insight ino why some cultures seem to embrace binge drinking, and others don't.  I've not been able to come up with an answer I find really satisfying.

 

Me either.

I'm told that it doesn't seem to be as popular in Europe, where drinking younger is seen as just a normal thing at dinner, instead of a special scary thing that we treat with zero-tolerance, as we do here.  I wonder if that plays a role?

 

[hornblower]

Me either.

I'm told that it doesn't seem to be as popular in Europe, where drinking younger is seen as just a normal thing at dinner, instead of a special scary thing that we treat with zero-tolerance, as we do here.  I wonder if that plays a role?

 

 

I think that's a myth. According to WHO http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics

 

 

• At a societal level, the European Union is the heaviest-drinking region in the world, with over one fifth of the European population aged 15 years and above reporting heavy episodic drinking (five or more drinks on an occasion, or 60g alcohol) at least once a week. Heavy episodic drinking is widespread across all ages and all of Europe, and not only among young people or those from northern Europe.

[zoobie]

And...it's one cop's opinion. I'm sure (former Detective) Mark Fuhrman has some interesting opinions on things too, but I'm not going to take his word over actual research. 90% of sexual assaults aren't about alcohol. That's a dangerous claim and insulting to sexual assault victims. 

[shawthorne44]

I also think that there isn't social consequences to binge drinking here.   I remember talking about this to a Roman.   He said that if he got really drunk any woman that saw wouldn't want anything to do with him, and she'd tell her friends.   

 

Personally, I think social consequences are what caused a decrease in drunken driving.   I am old enough to remember when it wasn't that big of deal, in fact being drunk while driving was a defense.   Now it makes you a social pariah.  I think this is a good thing.  

 

Back in the dark ages when I was young the girls who got drunk and then had tea (while conscious) were doing it because they wanted to have tea but they wanted the deniability that it was really the alcohol.   

[hornblower]

otoh, maybe Italy is on to something. This article argues this & presents some interesting stats esp wrt Italy. 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/16/binge-drinking-alcohol-laws-culture

 

But I'm not so sure about this because Greece has similar culture & HUGE binge drinking. (50% v 6 in Italy)  Spain is ~20. Portugal is ~36 

http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcohol_report/msb_gsr_2014_2.pdf?ua=1

 

[Bluegoat]

And...it's one cop's opinion. I'm sure (former Detective) Mark Fuhrman has some interesting opinions on things too, but I'm not going to take his word over actual research. 90% of sexual assaults aren't about alcohol. That's a dangerous claim and insulting to sexual assault victims. 

 

He's talking about the ones he gets called on.  Part of that may be that he is in a campus town, but also, he's not necessarily talking about the ones that make it into statistics - in fact from what he said, it seems that most off what he is talking about is never brought to the point of being made an official complaint, because it is just so far from something that could be prosecuted.  They might not be assault legally at all, or just have so little evidence that it is not worth it to pursue.

 

THis is my big frustration with talking about the official statistics - they tend to reflect the things that were clear enough to be officially looked at.  But there are a heck of a lot of things that people feel were sexual assaults that aren't going to meet that kind of criteria.  Whenever there is a study or set of stats on whether people were, in their own view, sexually assaulted, it isn't necessarily going to match up with what are official stats on legal charges. 

 

If you have 100 incidents where women said they were assaulted, even if they were all correct morally and legally, but there was no way to show it in a court because of alcohol consumption (say they blacked out or all the witnesses were unreliable, and there was no physical evidence) none of them would show up as charges of convictions for rape or assault.

[shawthorne44]

I also don't think that you can look at amount of alcohol consumed per person and determine if there is a drinking problem.   Someone binge drinking one night a week will drink less than someone that drinks a couple of glasses with dinner every night.   But, the binge drinking person will have a problem and the wine with dinner person won't.   

 

I also think that there is a separate issue with some young kids with sex being less ...  not sure how to put this ...  less of a big deal.  Less private.   

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by shawthorne44

[Bluegoat]

otoh, maybe Italy is on to something. This article argues this & presents some interesting stats esp wrt Italy. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/16/binge-drinking-alcohol-laws-culture

 

But I'm not so sure about this because Greece has similar culture & HUGE binge drinking. (50% v 6 in Italy)  Spain is ~20. Portugal is ~36 

 

http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alcohol_report/msb_gsr_2014_2.pdf?ua=1

 

 

 

As far as binge drinking culture in particular, the UK and Finland seem to often be particularly noted.  And Japan too, at least certain sucultures there.

[Bluegoat]

I also don't think that you can look at amount of alcohol consumed per person and determine if there is a drinking problem.   Someone binge drinking one night a week will drink more than someone that drinks a couple of glasses with dinner every night.   But, the binge drinking person will have a problem and the wine with dinner person won't.   

 

I also think that there is a separate issue with some young kids with sex being less ...  not sure how to put this ...  less of a big deal.  Less private.   

 

Yeah.  That was my experience with the hook-up culture in the army.  There is nothing so unappatizing as having a stomach flu when your roomate brings some guy home to the bed right next to yours.

[TranquilMind]

 

I think that's a myth. According to WHO http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention/alcohol-use/data-and-statistics

 

 

• At a societal level, the European Union is the heaviest-drinking region in the world, with over one fifth of the European population aged 15 years and above reporting heavy episodic drinking (five or more drinks on an occasion, or 60g alcohol) at least once a week. Heavy episodic drinking is widespread across all ages and all of Europe, and not only among young people or those from northern Europe.

 

 

Possibly.

 

I only know what I am told right now.  It doesn't seem to be that common among the university set of my student, but obviously, that is a very limited sample.  They go out a lot in general, but don't consume a whole lot.  

 

[TranquilMind]

Yeah.  That was my experience with the hook-up culture in the army.  There is nothing so unappatizing as having a stomach flu when your roomate brings some guy home to the bed right next to yours.

 

Eww.  How awful.  I can't imagine, as I have never had a roommate. 

[TranquilMind]

I also don't think that you can look at amount of alcohol consumed per person and determine if there is a drinking problem.   Someone binge drinking one night a week will drink less than someone that drinks a couple of glasses with dinner every night.   But, the binge drinking person will have a problem and the wine with dinner person won't.   

 

I also think that there is a separate issue with some young kids with sex being less ...  not sure how to put this ...  less of a big deal.  Less private.   

 

Right.  How it is used is very important, and what constitutes "binge drinking" certainly varies from person to person, as people react so differently.

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

From what's 17 yo tells me this starts in high school. A very, small rural high school in the Bible Belt I might add.

[marbel]

The anecdote in the cop's story ring true for me.  Not in college, but later, when I was a single working adult who enjoyed happy hour and then went from there.   Lots of people waking up not knowing what happened the night before.  I don't remember anyone I knew calling it rape, though I have heard of that happening outside my own circles.  Lots of regret, in any case.  

[hornblower]

The anecdote in the cop's story ring true for me.  Not in college, but later, when I was a single working adult who enjoyed happy hour and then went from there.   Lots of people waking up not knowing what happened the night before.  I don't remember anyone I knew calling it rape, though I have heard of that happening outside my own circles.  Lots of regret, in any case.  

 

 

People who cannot remember anything about what happened need to consider that they may have been roofied. 

[TranquilMind]

I also think that there isn't social consequences to binge drinking here.   I remember talking about this to a Roman.   He said that if he got really drunk any woman that saw wouldn't want anything to do with him, and she'd tell her friends.   

 

Personally, I think social consequences are what caused a decrease in drunken driving.   I am old enough to remember when it wasn't that big of deal, in fact being drunk while driving was a defense.   Now it makes you a social pariah.  I think this is a good thing.  

 

Back in the dark ages when I was young the girls who got drunk and then had tea (while conscious) were doing it because they wanted to have tea but they wanted the deniability that it was really the alcohol.   

 

That's a good point.  There is almost a culture of bragging about "how wasted" you got last night.  Bragging, instead of shame. 

 

[TranquilMind]

From what's 17 yo tells me this starts in high school. A very, small rural high school in the Bible Belt I might add.

That's sad, isn't it? 

 

And I've heard some of the same - involving a Christian school. 

[marbel]

People who cannot remember anything about what happened need to consider that they may have been roofied. 

 

That's not something that ever came up, in my experience.  I'd never heard of such a thing till much later, well after I was not hanging out in clubs with drunk people anymore. 

 

ETA: I'm not saying it's not possible.  Just saying I'd never heard of it, never heard anyone suggest it.  As far as I could tell, people just got very, very drunk.

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by marbel

[poppy]

It ain't so.

I do not believe this guy is a cop.

If he is, he is a terrible one.  For several reasons. Biggest being that he says outright he won't charge someone accused of rape unless he has MORE than probable cause.   Completely inappropriate. 

[TranquilMind]

It ain't so.

I do not believe this guy is a cop.

If he is, he is a terrible one.  For several reasons. Biggest being that he says outright he won't charge someone accused of rape unless he has MORE than probable cause.   Completely inappropriate. 

 

Ok.  I understood it more as being evidentiary in nature.  Perhaps he has seen many cases where lesser evidence would not bring a conviction, and he more or less stated so.

 

But you may be right.  It could just be someone pretending to be a cop, but having worked in that world in the past, he spoke with enough specifics that I find it certainly possible that he is a cop. 

[Corraleno]

It ain't so.

I do not believe this guy is a cop.

If he is, he is a terrible one.  For several reasons. Biggest being that he says outright he won't charge someone accused of rape unless he has MORE than probable cause.   Completely inappropriate. 

 

:iagree:

 

His made-up "statistics," that "90%+" of all sexual assaults are basically the result of girls getting drunk, are totally contradicted by facts. As I cited in the other thread, according to a massive study conducted in 2015 (150,000 students at 27 colleges), more than 1 in 10 female undergraduates reported having been raped (sexual penetration by force or incapacitation), and more than half of those were raped by force — held down, hit, or threatened with a weapon. And the category of rape by incapacitation included victims who were raped while unconscious, asleep, or too incapacitated by drugs or alcohol to resist. Those figures do NOT include rape due to "coercion" or "lack of affirmative consent" or forms of sexual assault that did not include penetration — those were separate categories.

 

Claiming that the "typical" sexual assault victim is a girl who gets completely plastered, performs a blow job on a stranger in a public bathroom, willingly goes back to his apartment, does drugs and has consensual sex with his roommate, and then only claims to have been assaulted because her roommate convinces her she was a victim, is total bullshit. Either the anonymous guy who wrote this email is not really a cop and made the whole thing up, or he's a really lousy cop who let his own misogynist, slut-shaming biases interfere with his work. If that guy is in any way representative of the LEOs that assault victims have to deal with, it's no wonder that such a tiny percentage of rapes are ever reported to the police.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Corraleno

[poppy]

Ok.  I understood it more as being evidentiary in nature.  Perhaps he has seen many cases where lesser evidence would not bring a conviction, and he more or less stated so.

 

But you may be right.  It could just be someone pretending to be a cop, but having worked in that world in the past, he spoke with enough specifics that I find it certainly possible that he is a cop. 

 

It's possible he is. 

 

He clearly thinks "rape rape" is very uncommon. And that it's very common for girls to get incredibly drunk, have consensual sex, then accuse unwitting guys of rape.  Which goes against all the stats we've ever seen, but, maybe it is because detectives are screening those for us ---as he does-- by not charging.  

 

He also implies that there are a high number of false accusations (which again, he is  apparently judge & jury in all these cases?)  Again, the  stats don't bear that out at all.   But again, maybe it's because police brush off those cases every time?

 

But it's his degree of certainty that 90% [his figure]  of accused rapes aren't "rape-rapes" makes me skeptical.  Would a real cop really put the figure that high and speak with the degree of specificity? 

 

If he is a real cop, that's worse.  This is exactly the kind of officer who would have believed Brock Turner instead of his victim, if Turner hadn't been interrupted during the attack.

[TranquilMind]

It's possible he is. 

 

He clearly thinks "rape rape" is very uncommon. And that it's very common for girls to get incredibly drunk, have consensual sex, then accuse unwitting guys of rape.  Which goes against all the stats we've ever seen, but, maybe it is because detectives are screening those for us ---as he does-- by not charging.  

 

He also implies that there are a high number of false accusations (which again, he is  apparently judge & jury in all these cases?)  Again, the  stats don't bear that out at all.   But again, maybe it's because police brush off those cases every time?

 

But it's his degree of certainty that 90% [his figure]  of accused rapes aren't "rape-rapes" makes me skeptical.  Would a real cop really put the figure that high and speak with the degree of specificity? 

 

If he is a real cop, that's worse.  This is exactly the kind of officer who would have believed Brock Turner instead of his victim, if Turner hadn't been interrupted during the attack.

 

In fairness, that "rape-rape" thing was not his term; it was Whoopi Goldberg's, and he is actually mocking it when he uses it because she did. 

 

[Corraleno]

In fairness, that "rape-rape" thing was not his term; it was Whoopi Goldberg's, and he is actually mocking it when he uses it because she did. 

 

 

No he was not mocking it. He called it an "inartful" term, and then he used it himself with respect to the Stanford case: "That victim by all accounts is, for lack of a better term, a true victim of “rape- rape.â€

 

Apparently the way you can tell a "true victim of rape-rape" from a drunk slut who just forgot she consented is: witnesses. Without witnesses, we just have to assume the girl was drunk and asking for it, because 90% of the time, that's all it is.

[TranquilMind]

No he was not mocking it. He called it an "inartful" term, and then he used it himself with respect to the Stanford case: "That victim by all accounts is, for lack of a better term, a true victim of “rape- rape.â€

 

Apparently the way you can tell a "true victim of rape-rape" from a drunk slut who just forgot she consented is: witnesses. Without witnesses, we just have to assume the girl was drunk and asking for it, because 90% of the time, that's all it is.

Ok, if that's the way you read it. 

[goldberry]

Ok.  I understood it more as being evidentiary in nature.  Perhaps he has seen many cases where lesser evidence would not bring a conviction, and he more or less stated so.

 

 

 

That's the way I heard it also.  In a he said-she said case with no witnesses and no physical evidence of harm, there is no way to prosecute a case like that.  That's just the truth of the matter.

 

It seemed to me he was just trying to illustrate how murky things can get when alcohol is involved.  We talked a bit about it on the other thread, when someone has a blackout and the person is still talking like they are okay and maybe consenting in that condition, there is often no discernible way to tell what really happened.

 

He did acknowledge that the Stanford case was totally different because she was unconscious.

[poppy]

That's the way I heard it also.  In a he said-she said case with no witnesses and no physical evidence of harm, there is no way to prosecute a case like that.  That's just the truth of the matter.

 

It seemed to me he was just trying to illustrate how murky things can get when alcohol is involved.  We talked a bit about it on the other thread, when someone has a blackout and the person is still talking like they are okay and maybe consenting in that condition, there is often no discernible way to tell what really happened.

 

He did acknowledge that the Stanford case was totally different because she was unconscious.

 

Is there anyone in law enforcement, or with family in law enforcement, that can clear this up? Can a cop decide to not press charges in cases of rape if he doesn't think the case will succeed in being prosecuated?   I did not think that's how it works.  But I could be wrong.

 

I don't see any way that the Stanford victim being unconscious is different than someone being blackout drunk, can you help me understand that?  I'm not opening the link again-  it crashes my browser - but blackout drunk = passed out, no?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Is there anyone in law enforcement, or with family in law enforcement, that can clear this up? Can a cop decide to not press charges in cases of rape if he doesn't think the case will succeed in being prosecuated? I did not think that's how it works. But I could be wrong.

 

I don't see any way that the Stanford victim being unconscious is different than someone being blackout drunk, can you help me understand that? I'm not opening the link again- it crashes my browser - but blackout drunk = passed out, no?

Cops should not be making decisions on whether or not to press charges. Charges are brought through the DA's office. The wording this "cop" uses does make me question if he is legitimate.

[goldberry]

 

I don't see any way that the Stanford victim being unconscious is different than someone being blackout drunk, can you help me understand that?  I'm not opening the link again-  it crashes my browser - but blackout drunk = passed out, no?

 

No, there was an article from the other thread about blackouts.  The person continues functioning and doing things, but just doesn't remember any of it. 

 

That would scare the crap out of me and cause me to give up alcohol FOREVER.

[marbel]

Is there anyone in law enforcement, or with family in law enforcement, that can clear this up? Can a cop decide to not press charges in cases of rape if he doesn't think the case will succeed in being prosecuated?   I did not think that's how it works.  But I could be wrong.

 

I don't see any way that the Stanford victim being unconscious is different than someone being blackout drunk, can you help me understand that?  I'm not opening the link again-  it crashes my browser - but blackout drunk = passed out, no?

 

I can't speak from a legal perspective.  

 

When I think of "blackout drunk" I think of a person who is still somewhat functional (walking, talking, etc) but with an altered mental state and then usually not remembering what happened once they are sober.   I've seen it and I've experienced it.

 

I can remember being at a party and putting a glass down on a table - except the table wasn't there.  I thought it was there and was stunned to see the glass hit the floor.  Friends who saw it said I executed the movement of setting a glass down perfectly - like a mime.  Maybe that wasn't quite blackout drunk because I remember it.  But it was so weird - that's why I remember it 25 or so years later. 

 

But I've also seen people who were very drunk but still walking, talking, dancing, and could not remember anything the next day.  I've had friends ask me what stupid things they'd done the night before, including having sex with someone.   I have probably had those experiences myself but choose not to remember them. 

 

I had a few years of hard partying back in the day. 

 

[TranquilMind]

Cops should not be making decisions on whether or not to press charges. Charges are brought through the DA's office. The wording this "cop" uses does make me question if he is legitimate.

 

Well, of course that is true, but over time, cops sure get to know what is necessary to get a conviction. 

 

[TranquilMind]

No, there was an article from the other thread about blackouts.  The person continues functioning and doing things, but just doesn't remember any of it. 

 

That would scare the crap out of me and cause me to give up alcohol FOREVER.

 

Yeah, me too (but that isn't why I do not drink).

My experience wasn't a black out, because I still had a hazy idea of what was going on, but it sure was a wake-up call. 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I can't speak from a legal perspective.

 

When I think of "blackout drunk" I think of a person who is still somewhat functional (walking, talking, etc) but with an altered mental state and then usually not remembering what happened once they are sober. I've seen it and I've experienced it.

 

I can remember being at a party and putting a glass down on a table - except the table wasn't there. I thought it was there and was stunned to see the glass hit the floor. Friends who saw it said I executed the movement of setting a glass down perfectly - like a mime. Maybe that wasn't quite blackout drunk because I remember it. But it was so weird - that's why I remember it 25 or so years later.

 

But I've also seen people who were very drunk but still walking, talking, dancing, and could not remember anything the next day. I've had friends ask me what stupid things they'd done the night before, including having sex with someone. I have probably had those experiences myself but choose not to remember them.

 

I had a few years of hard partying back in the day.

 

All of that is true about being blackout drunk (btw - I believe when you remember something when reminded it is a brown out), however, everyone I have been around in a black out state is clearly heavily intoxicated. Blackouts for most people occur around the .25 level which is significantly impaired.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Well, of course that is true, but over time, cops sure get to know what is necessary to get a conviction.

 

They still are not making the decision.

[swimmermom3]

Is there anyone in law enforcement, or with family in law enforcement, that can clear this up? Can a cop decide to not press charges in cases of rape if he doesn't think the case will succeed in being prosecuated?   I did not think that's how it works.  But I could be wrong.

 

I don't see any way that the Stanford victim being unconscious is different than someone being blackout drunk, can you help me understand that?  I'm not opening the link again-  it crashes my browser - but blackout drunk = passed out, no?

 

In the excellent article posted in one of the other threads, the distinction between blackout and passed out was discussed.  Passed out is that you are unresponsive or marginally responsive.  A person in a blackout can be moving around, doing things, talking, and not necessarily even showing signs of drinking, but will not remember anything the following day.

 

[marbel]

All of that is true about being blackout drunk (btw - I believe when you remember something when reminded it is a brown out), however, everyone I have been around in a black out state is clearly heavily intoxicated. Blackouts for most people occur around the .25 level which is significantly impaired.

 

Yes, that's true.  I wasn't clear about that.  People can be somewhat functional but clearly impaired.  Slurring words or even taking nonsense, walking but badly, dancing sloppily and precariously. 

 

[TranquilMind]

They still are not making the decision.

 

No, but they know what isn't going to fly by the time they have some experience.  They still need to do their jobs, and let the chips fall where they may. 

 

[poppy]

In the excellent article posted in one of the other threads, the distinction between blackout and passed out was discussed. Passed out is that you are unresponsive or marginally responsive. A person in a blackout can be moving around, doing things, talking, and not necessarily even showing signs of drinking, but will not remember anything the following day.

 

Right right, but I mean from the perspective of this cop. If she says I woke up behind a dumpster and was assaulted. And he (the rapist) said the sex happened consensually ....it's pretty clear this cop would take his opinions about 90% of rape cases being a result of blackout drinking. Right ? I don't see any scenario where this is 'rape-rape' except that someone witnessed the assault .

[goldberry]

Right right, but I mean from the perspective of this cop. If she says I woke up behind a dumpster and was assaulted. And he (the rapist) said the sex happened consensually ....it's pretty clear this cop would take his opinions about 90% of rape cases being a result of blackout drinking. Right ? I don't see any scenario where this is 'rape-rape' except that someone witnessed the assault .

 

Two things occured in the Stanford case that made prosecution possible:  First, there were witnesses that saw the woman unconscious.  Second, there was physical evidence of harm (bruising of tissue, dirt, pine needles) - no way that is "typical" for consensual sex.

 

The reality is that if there were no witnesses and no evidence of harm, she woke up behind the dumpster but he said it was consensual, that case would likely not have been prosecuted.  And if prosecuted would likely not have won. 

 

It wouldn't have mattered if the cop or anyone else believed her story.  If there is no way for one side or the other to prove what happened, it will likely not go to trial. 

 

I personally know women who have not gone to the police for exactly this reason.  I can't say I wouldn't make the same decision.

[Leav97]

Two things occured in the Stanford case that made prosecution possible:  First, there were witnesses that saw the woman unconscious.  Second, there was physical evidence of harm (bruising of tissue, dirt, pine needles) - no way that is "typical" for consensual sex.

 

 

I've seen bruising downplayed as typical.  Pine needles wouldn't be typical though.

[Murphy101]

People who cannot remember anything about what happened need to consider that they may have been roofied.

She was referring to WORK happy hour culture and though considering it isn't a bad idea, I can tell you from horror stories my dh has shared over the years that many of those people are on Rx that contradicts use of alcohol, but there they are, getting plastered at the office party or happy hour after work. You'd think like dh and I that especially in this job market, people would be hyper vigilant about their professional image but apparently not. Dh goes, has maybe one beer if that, shakes the bosses hand and then blames his ball and chain wife for having to leave early. 😎 But he says it's not at all unusual for people to drink so much that they are well on the road to drunk before he can even finish his one beer or Diet Pepsi and since some talk openly about being on anti-depressants or other medications - dh is stunned they ever show up to work the next day. And yes, they laugh about how they don't remember much of anything.

[poppy]

Two things occured in the Stanford case that made prosecution possible: First, there were witnesses that saw the woman unconscious. Second, there was physical evidence of harm (bruising of tissue, dirt, pine needles) - no way that is "typical" for consensual sex.

 

The reality is that if there were no witnesses and no evidence of harm, she woke up behind the dumpster but he said it was consensual, that case would likely not have been prosecuted. And if prosecuted would likely not have won.

 

It wouldn't have mattered if the cop or anyone else believed her story. If there is no way for one side or the other to prove what happened, it will likely not go to trial.

 

I personally know women who have not gone to the police for exactly this reason. I can't say I wouldn't make the same decision.

And then she'd get to be shamed by this cop too. His scorn for women who drink steams off the page, really. No wonder Brock Turner felt entitled to do what he pleased with the doll he found on the ground . Edited June 15, 2016 by poppy

[hornblower]

And then she'd get to be shamed by this cop too. His scorn for women who drink steams off the page, really. No wonder Brock Turner felt entitled to do what he pleased with the doll he found on the ground .

Yup. He's full of scorn for the victims.

 

He's saying eliminate binge drinking & hook up culture but his whole thing is addressed to the women:  the whole 'eliminate the victim side of the triangle' thing just reads as stay home, don't go out without a male protector, cover yourself blah blah blah. He's suggesting women shouldn't drink and party. 

 

FWIW, I actually don't think anyone should be doing this: men or women.  But I don't read him lambasting the men for getting so drunk that they're not sure what happened, how it happened or whether there was consent. No, he's not lambasting them; he's just worried that a sex assault charge will follow them for the rest of their lives. 

 

 

I really hope this piece is just made up garbage written by a misogynist to feed to a victim blaming audience who can get all huffy about this. It includes a bunch of call phrases 'social justice' etc which just reminds me of all the MRA and PUA sites. 

 

It would be way worse if this actually was a real cop. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by hornblower

[ChocolateReignRemix]

No, but they know what isn't going to fly by the time they have some experience.  They still need to do their jobs, and let the chips fall where they may. 

 

 

You are missing the point.  Here are his exact words:

"It doesn’t take much proof for me to arrest you, but when it comes to sexual offenses, I’ve always felt I had a duty to make sure I went beyond mere probable cause before I charged."

 

Police who investigate sexual assault allegations do not levy charges.  They do an investigation, which is forwarded to the office of the prosecutor, who then determines if the suspect can be charged.

 

The phrasing this "cop" uses is not indicative of someone with actual experience.

[TXBeth]

Didn't the poster who originally linked the article in the other thread say it was written by a friend of hers who is a cop?

[8circles]

If this is a real police officer, Lord have mercy.