Math for Girls, Math for Boys

[Lilaclady]

This isn't a US thing. I think the China Girls Math Olympiad was one of the first of these contests... and sure enough the posted articles says:

 

 

So this isn't so much a dumbed down contest so much as a enrichment bridge.

Thank you so much for this raptor dad.

Until you have a daughter who is the only girl or one of a few girls in a class you really can't understan why there are different classes for girls and coed for boys.

[The Governess]

I like the idea of "girls only." I have a Dd that would probably get discouraged if I enrolled her in a math, engineering, or programming class that was dominated by boys. She is pretty reserved and I could see her feeling isolated and not assertive enough to push herself into the middle of a boy-dominated culture. Especially in the middle school years, when kids are working hard to form their identities, I can see how girls like my Dd who excel in these areas could choose something else because they have a hard time identifying with a room full of pre-teen/teen boys. In an all-girls group, it would be easier for her to see that she can be herself and follow her passion for math at the same time. Once she is older and has developed a stronger sense of self it will become less of an issue.

[regentrude]

I am opposed to the idea of "girls only" anything unless at the same time you offer "boys only" activities as well.

Either we can have gender segregation, and then it has to go both ways - or we don't segregate by gender. We should not make gender segregation OK "sometimes" if it fits a certain agenda.

 

[The Governess]

I am opposed to the idea of "girls only" anything unless at the same time you offer "boys only" activities as well.

Either we can have gender segregation, and then it has to go both ways - or we don't segregate by gender. We should not make gender segregation OK "sometimes" if it fits a certain agenda.

Agreed. You can't have co-ed or "girls only" as the only two options.

 

I think in the long run, the best answer is to change the culture that creates the stereotypes.

Edited April 25, 2016 by lovelearnandlive

[Targhee]

Thank you so much for this raptor dad.

Until you have a daughter who is the only girl or one of a few girls in a class you really can't understan why there are different classes for girls and coed for boys.

I'm not raptor dad, and my child is not an elite maths competitor or anything, but she has definitely been one in a group of boys and my boy has been one in a group of girls because of their interests and activities. While I would love for them to have more kids of the same gender in their classes/activities (actually I think it's much harder for my DS than for DD) there are negative side effects of this segregation in academic enrichment classes and competitions. I can understand it in sports competition, because there are physical differences based in gender that make equitable competition difficult, but even then it is not the odd double standard of girls only and co-ed. Where there is no gender advantage in academic competition and enrichment it is another story.

 

My DD competed on a girls only FLL team - small potatoes I know but hear me out. It was girls only because it was sponsored by Girl Scouts. My DS really wanted to compete too, but the only teams we found that were accepting new team members (and weren't school affiliated) were only accepting girls. He would have gladly been on an otherwise all-girl team, but he wasn't welcomed. The next year we coached a team, co-ed.

[regentrude]

Until you have a daughter who is the only girl or one of a few girls in a class you really can't understan why there are different classes for girls and coed for boys.

 

I was the only girl in math related activities, and later one of very few girls in my college classes.

I still can't understand why there should be different classes.

 

[wintermom]

I have this feeling that Math Contests, like the Math Olympics, and math in school, even up to math in University, are two completely different "beasts."  You don't have to participate in math contests to do well in math or have a career in math, and there are lots of university and college programs where there is a component of math, but participating in math contests is irrelevant.

 

I wouldn't necessarily make a direct link to participating in math contests to number of women working in careers where being strong in math is required. Look at careers in fields of study such as nursing, medicine, health sciences, psychology, and you'll see very often more women than men. Math and science are required for these fields, however the level and type of math needed to excell in Math Contests is not required for these fields. Why would people spend 2 - 3 hours a day to prepare for a math contest, if they didn't need to for their field?

 

 

[SilverMoon]

Thank you so much for this raptor dad.

Until you have a daughter who is the only girl or one of a few girls in a class you really can't understan why there are different classes for girls and coed for boys.

 

 

I was the only girl in math related activities, and later one of very few girls in my college classes.

I still can't understand why there should be different classes.

 

I'm with Regentrude.

 

DD/10th and DD/5th are both in clubs/classes where they are one of the few or the only girl. The younger one has the added challenge of outpacing boys quite a bit older than she is. This does not discourage my girls, but they are outgoing, very obviously appropriately placed, and thriving.

 

In our experience so far the girls only alternatives have lighter expectations and/or depth than the few/only girl options and do not satiate my girls nearly as well.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The "girls only" events are provided because there is a market for them.  It's ok to choose them or to choose the co-ed versions (which are still de facto "boys only" in many cases).  I see having more options to choose from a good thing. 

[Arcadia]

While I understand that they want to get more girls involved (and comfortable) in math and science related activities, I don't understand why there is a gender split.  Doesn't that reinforce a stereotype? 

 

There is a stereotype that is still prevalent in teacher's minds; that girls need accommodations for math and science while boys need accommodations for language arts. My boys get to underprerform in language arts in public school because they are boys, but their private German and Chinese teachers expect the same level of work from both genders. The Russian private math tutors expect as much from girls as boys.

 

"Susan Baily, director of the Wellesley College Center for Research on Women and the main author of a recent report on the subject for the American Association of University Women, said she was concerned about "sending a message that girls are so special, so in need of extra help, that they must be taught separately."

But, she added, the all-girl classes will illuminate "what works for girls" and thus could eventually enhance coeducational teaching.

...

At both Marin Academy and Anacapa Middle School, administrators said they were now considering separate classes for boys in art or language arts, where they tend to trail the girls in performance. But limited research on the subject shows that boys do not benefit from such segregation, and several teachers and students here wondered if it did not hurt them."

 

Source: To Help Girls Keep Up: Math Class Without Boys

 

 

This one is an interesting but inconclusive research report Girls-only math and science classes boost performance, but not attitudes

 

"Students in this study were from middle- and upper-middle-income families. Girls in the single-sex classes did not differ from their peers in coeducational classes on key variables that could influence the effects of the program.

...

There was strong evidence that girls who were taught math and science in single-sex classes for two years at the beginning of high school excelled at a higher level in subsequent math and science courses and that they took more courses in these subjects.

But, self-reports about math anxiety and competence indicated that girls in single-sex classes did not differ in their level of math anxiety or perceived competence compared to girls in coeducational classes. Girls in single-sex classes expended more effort than girls in coeducational classes, however.

...

The researchers could not explain why single-sex classes, while improving persistence and achievement in these subjects, did not reduce levels of math anxiety in girls.

 

[Bluegoat]

I wonder if women tend toward STEM fields that include more social interaction, whereas men tend toward STEM fields that include less chit-chatty sorts of jobs, like conducting research using people vs. conducting research using machines?  

 

I also wonder if one of the reasons that homeschooled students show weaker scores in math than LA is because most of the time, it's moms doing the teaching, and we're seeing the results of girls not having been encouraged in math in earlier generations.  So now that they're teaching their own children, they don't have the skills/knowledge to teach math/help with math.  Maybe that's the case with public schools too, if it's still mostly women teaching at the elementary level when the foundations are set.  Just wondering. . .

 

It has occured to me too that people who are more mathy might be less inclined, for some reason, to homeschool than more language-oriented people.

[Bluegoat]

I am opposed to the idea of "girls only" anything unless at the same time you offer "boys only" activities as well.

Either we can have gender segregation, and then it has to go both ways - or we don't segregate by gender. We should not make gender segregation OK "sometimes" if it fits a certain agenda.

 

Yes, I generally agree with this.  I do think there are some specific times it might make sense, but we needto be very thoughtful about them.

 

As an example, there is a place here that runs chainsaw courses.  Some are women-only.  They were requested because some women found the regular, generally male dominated classes, intimidating.  A significant factor I think was that many of the men already had some knowledge of things like small engines or woods work, but most of the women were beginners in every way.  I saw a fair bit of this type of disparity in the army.

 

And in some contexts there may be real intentional domination by men.

 

But these types of exceptions need to be careful thought out.

 

In the schools here there are actually far more programs and such for girls than the boys have access to.  Which may explain why the graduation rate for boys is about 77% and for girls 84%.  Even with things like scouting, there is nothing for boys-only, which people seem to think will create misogynists.  But there are plenty of girls-only organizations which are seen as empowering.

[Bluegoat]

The "girls only" events are provided because there is a market for them.  It's ok to choose them or to choose the co-ed versions (which are still de facto "boys only" in many cases).  I see having more options to choose from a good thing. 

 

So - is there no market for boys only events?

 

I suspect if they were set up - boys only math olympics - that might come in for quite a lot of flack.

[Jean in Newcastle]

So - is there no market for boys only events?

 

I suspect if they were set up - boys only math olympics - that might come in for quite a lot of flack.

 

If events ended up being de facto girls only events, then yes, there would be a market for some boys only events for interested boys.  That is why there are boy's sewing classes at some places.  Or boy's only book clubs.  I've seen both.  And it isn't true that there are no scouting groups that are boy's only.  As far as I know Boy Scouts is boy's only. 

 

There is no need for boys only STEM events because they are overwhelmingly boy attended anyway. 

[SilverMoon]

If events ended up being de facto girls only events, then yes, there would be a market for some boys only events for interested boys.  That is why there are boy's sewing classes at some places.  Or boy's only book clubs.  I've seen both.  And it isn't true that there are no scouting groups that are boy's only.  As far as I know Boy Scouts is boy's only. 

 

There is no need for boys only STEM events because they are overwhelmingly boy attended anyway. 

 

DD/15 is a card carrying member of the Boy Scouts of America. *shrug* She's a Venture crew member and honorary member to her brothers' troop. She can only camp with the co-ed Venture crew though. Regular Boy Scout troops are boy only technically. Cub Scout packs only register boys, but are family friendly and encourage siblings to participate.

Edited April 25, 2016 by SilverMoon

[Jean in Newcastle]

I just don't think it is that big a deal.  If girls benefit from girls only events then they can utilize them.  If not, then don't.  I worked in an overwhelmingly male field (engineering) and then pursued an overwhelmingly male master's degree.  It didn't bother me.  I didn't need anything girl oriented in either the workplace or the school setting but if someone had wanted that, I don't see the problem with it.  I would have seen a problem if I had been told that I couldn't work in the field or couldn't pursue the degree I wanted. 

[Arcadia]

My alma mater tried to get more girls to apply to engineering. The unintentional result was that people think the girls in the batches after the get more girls campaign got in because of their gender rather than their grades. The school of engineering cut off was very high (majority straight As) and did not look at ECs so if you have a male and a female with the same scores, but the female gets in, it perpetuates the opinion.

[Soror]

It isn't a stereotype within the walls of our homeschool, but it doesn't change the fact that my really strong math dd dislikes math.   :)  My life would be easier if she wanted to pursue a STEM career, so it definitely is not coming from me!

 

 

I always feel a bit weird in these discussions since I'm raising a kid who wants to be a mathematician, or a scientist, and he's a boy. A very white boy. Oh no! I'm perpetuating the status quo! lol.

 

My son is certainly more techy/mathy than my oldest daughter. I'm trying hard not to fulfill any stereotypes but I'm not going to force her into something she isn't interested in. I'm actually planning on moving her to easier math next year, certainly not because she is a girl but her tears and frustration show me she needs to back up. My 6yo seems more math inclined like her brother and while I've thought BA would be a terrible fit for my oldest daughter I have a hunch that it will be a good fit for her when the time comes. 

 

Personally I don't ever recall thinking I couldn't do something because I was a girl. My parents were somewhat traditional and conservative but always stressed I could be/do whatever I wanted.Our only High School math teacher was a woman and a great teacher. I loved math and science and still do. I started out majoring in Comp. Sci, then Business and finally Social Work. I think if I had it to do over again I'd love a degree in some area of natural science.

 

I see a major weakness in math ed in the hs population, at least in public school they get a teacher to teach them, it seems from the majority of HS families I know math is not something really taught much past the lower elementary level, rather kids are just expected to teach themselves for the most part. Teaching Textbooks is catching on like wildfire as a program where mom doesn't have to do anything. 

 

Fwiw we've had a FLL Robotics team the past 2 years, both years we've had but 1 girl(the same one both years). I do see some stereotyping with this, so many moms have told me how they think this would be great for their son b/c they like to play Minecraft or Legos(and really I don't see much relation to FLL and those things, which I try to explain). The interest is just huge with moms of boys but moms of girls, not so much. I know not all girls are interested, my oldest daughter will be eligible age this year but hasn't shown an interest, the thing is that it seems to be assumed that the boys will be interested- even when they aren't- whereas girls are just assumed to not be interested. It seems there is an idea that it is good to push boys towards these sorts of things but it wouldn't cross our mind for girls. 

 

I don't have a problem with the girls only competitions as a way to provide an opportunity for girls to feel more comfortable getting into Math/Science. I can see how it would feel threatening to some girls to be in an environment as the only girl. I'd hate to see it as a reason to close down other venues for competition because the girls already have a place to go. I think as long as it is a choice and not a requirement to attend girls only it seems ok to me. Ideally there would be 1 competition for all to compete on the same exact level, reality is that for so long there have been these stereotypes and it is going to take some work to come to a place of equality.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was under the impression that things were getting better in this department.  But I don't know either way. 

 

My husband did tell me though about a woman who had applied to work in his dept.  She was more than qualified and probably mopped up the floor with her qualifications compared with most of the men on the team.  They hesitated to offer her a permanent position because his boss was unsure how she'd fare with the "boy's club".  She ended up going elsewhere.  My husband did not get why they were being such idiots about it. It is very sad to think this crap still goes on and I'd say his employer in general never seemed to be like that. 

[Arcadia]

It has occured to me too that people who are more mathy might be less inclined, for some reason, to homeschool than more language-oriented people.

 

Why would you think that way as? My hubby is weaker overall at languages and he is more keen on homeschooling than me.

:lol:  there are quite a few mathy moms on these boards.

I do think that like attract like unintentionally when choosing tutors.  DS11's previous cello teacher wasn't a good fit so we switch to a new teacher.  His new cello teacher taught him the physics of sound at the same time as technique. .

 

My oldest first violin teacher is a Russian lady who is also very strong in math. I haven't met a Russian lady locally who isn't strong in math actually.

 

This post Getting Girls Into Math on RSM does resonate with what I see with regards to math and science.

 

"Raising girls who are strong in math means not only raising a strong woman who has any profession open to her, but also a future mother who can help her children develop their math skills. So the stakes are high. And it’s up to the family to meet them.

 

The Former Soviet Union did two things right: it provided a solid math education to all children, regardless of gender, and it (indirectly) taught its families how to influence their children against the grain of society. If we did it there, then mothers can do the same for their daughters here. Children grow up quickly, and we don’t have the time to wait for mass culture to catch up to our values."

[Targhee]

The "girls only" events are provided because there is a market for them.  It's ok to choose them or to choose the co-ed versions (which are still de facto "boys only" in many cases).  I see having more options to choose from a good thing. 

If they are de facto "boys only" then name them so.  That is the difference.  You want to have a girls only option, then have a boys only option too.  By having "anybody" and then "girls only" means girls get special treatment/opportunity - it says girls either are better or they are less competent and need more help.  Is that what we want? No. We want equal treatment and opportunity.  If math has typically attracted more boys than girls has literature typically attracted more girls than boys? Do we need to make "Boys only" book groups? Or "boys only" theater? Or "boys only" sewing classes? Or do we need to create a welcoming space for all. Alternatively, have a girls group and a boys group (not a co-ed group).  Either you have a universal system or a binary one, but not a girl-selective one.

[Arcadia]

.  They hesitated to offer her a permanent position because his boss was unsure how she'd fare with the "boy's club".  She ended up going elsewhere.

 

One of my jobs did require me being okay with discussing work at a hotel lounge past midnight (after a whole day of conferences at the hotel) with a group of engineers which is usually all male. All the guys would be drinking so I am literally the person calling cabs for all of them to get home because sleepy and a few cans of beer or glasses of wine aren't a good combination for driving past 1am.  That was before having kids so going home late wasn't an issue.

 

[Targhee]

If events ended up being de facto girls only events, then yes, there would be a market for some boys only events for interested boys.  That is why there are boy's sewing classes at some places.  Or boy's only book clubs.  I've seen both.  And it isn't true that there are no scouting groups that are boy's only.  As far as I know Boy Scouts is boy's only. 

 

There is no need for boys only STEM events because they are overwhelmingly boy attended anyway. 

Funny, I used sewing and book groups in my reply above before reading this.  I still disagree.

 

Boy Scouts was a program designed for boys.  Math was not designed for boys.  Math competitions were not designed for boys.  I am fine if the impetus of the founding of a club was for a certain group.  If they would like to keep it that way, and you as a girl want to participate, then you need to find a different group.  This is very different in my mind.

 

I think choice is fine.  I think offering boy-only and co-ed or girl-only and co-ed is not fine.  I think boys group and girls group is fine.  It's when one group is a selective subset of the other that it isn't equitable, IMO.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It has occured to me too that people who are more mathy might be less inclined, for some reason, to homeschool than more language-oriented people.

 

It is probably easier to keep up with language skills verses math skills.  If someone does not practice math problems regularly (and a lot of people do not) then they get rusty or they never really learn anything new in that realm.  But if you read often, and some people do, that's going to keep those skills sharp.  Well, maybe not necessarily easier, but more likely.  People ask me which books I'm reading lately.  Nobody has ever asked me which math problems I'm working on lately.  I do practice math skills because I want to learn more, but nothing beyond basic math comes up regularly or naturally in my life.  Language related skills do though.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of my jobs did require me being okay with discussing work at a hotel lounge past midnight (after a whole day of conferences at the hotel) with a group of engineers which is usually all male. All the guys would be drinking so I am literally the person calling cabs for all of them to get home because sleepy and a few cans of beer or glasses of wine aren't a good combination for driving past 1am.  That was before having kids so going home late wasn't an issue.

 

 

Yeah it wasn't anything like that.  And there are women who work at that company.  There just aren't a lot of women developers there.  They thought she was a little too soft spoken.  I have met a lot of weird programmers (a good weird, but yes weird).  I don't see how being soft spoken is any sort of problem given how they do things there. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and let's say she was the opposite of soft spoken.  I imagine because she is a woman that would have been interpreted negatively also. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

.  They thought she was a little too soft spoken.  I have met a lot of weird programmers (a good weird, but yes weird).  I don't see how being soft spoken is any sort of problem given how they do things there. 

 

My previous company can't sent any soft spoken male engineers out to client's meetings because the clients are assertive to the point of being hagglers. So if she doesn't have to deal with hagglers type clients, it doesn't matter if she is soft spoken. I was the only female engineer at that office.

 

ETA:

I am the opposite of soft spoken and end up in managing engineers :lol:

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Arcadia

[SparklyUnicorn]

My previous company can't sent any soft spoken male engineers out to client's meetings because the clients are assertive to the point of being hagglers. So if she doesn't have to deal with hagglers type clients, it doesn't matter if she is soft spoken. I was the only female engineer at that office.

 

ETA:

I am the opposite of soft spoken and end up in managing engineers :lol:

 

 

Yeah they don't ever talk to customers.  They send sale's people for that.  Sale's people are a special breed of people.  LOL

 

They are assigned the parts they are to work on.  That's about it.  Meetings are for updating everyone on where one is at.  They don't get much personal input into the design other than discussing what is most doable or what works better.  KWIM? 

[Bluegoat]

If events ended up being de facto girls only events, then yes, there would be a market for some boys only events for interested boys.  That is why there are boy's sewing classes at some places.  Or boy's only book clubs.  I've seen both.  And it isn't true that there are no scouting groups that are boy's only.  As far as I know Boy Scouts is boy's only. 

 

There is no need for boys only STEM events because they are overwhelmingly boy attended anyway. 

 

Here in Canada, the scouts are co-ed.  Guides are not.

 

I do not think the issue with girls or girls only events are just about demand.  At all.  Many girls events are designed that way specifically with the idea that they will be empowering in some way for girls.  We don't seem to feel the same way about boys - they aren't often seen to benefit from a male environment in the same way we tend to think girls will.

 

A good example is a youth activity my dd is going to attend at the community center.  It's girls only, they are going to talk about careers, body image, social media, and so on.  There is a real sense that girls will benefit from talking with other girls, seeing role models, and perhaps even having a space to discuss girl issues away from boys - all of which is IMO legitimate.  There is no similar boys group available, until you get to boys who have actually broken the law or are in some kind of trouble.  Boys apparently don't have the same need for same-sex mentors, to figure out what it means to be a boy or man, or talk about things apart from girls.

[Bluegoat]

Why would you think that way as? My hubby is weaker overall at languages and he is more keen on homeschooling than me.

:lol:  there are quite a few mathy moms on these boards.

I do think that like attract like unintentionally when choosing tutors.  DS11's previous cello teacher wasn't a good fit so we switch to a new teacher.  His new cello teacher taught him the physics of sound at the same time as technique. .

 

My oldest first violin teacher is a Russian lady who is also very strong in math. I haven't met a Russian lady locally who isn't strong in math actually.

 

This post Getting Girls Into Math on RSM does resonate with what I see with regards to math and science.

 

"Raising girls who are strong in math means not only raising a strong woman who has any profession open to her, but also a future mother who can help her children develop their math skills. So the stakes are high. And it’s up to the family to meet them.

 

The Former Soviet Union did two things right: it provided a solid math education to all children, regardless of gender, and it (indirectly) taught its families how to influence their children against the grain of society. If we did it there, then mothers can do the same for their daughters here. Children grow up quickly, and we don’t have the time to wait for mass culture to catch up to our values."

 

I don't think its a hard and fast rule or anything.  It seems to fit my observations though - among the homeschoolers I know, more come from an arts background.

 

I could only guess why it might be the case.  One thing I have noticed is that many of the people I know who are in the sciences seem to be more likely to be positive about institutional schooling for kids compared to people from more of an arts background.  Or it could be totally practical - maybe related to their jobs.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah it wasn't anything like that.  And there are women who work at that company.  There just aren't a lot of women developers there.  They thought she was a little too soft spoken.  I have met a lot of weird programmers (a good weird, but yes weird).  I don't see how being soft spoken is any sort of problem given how they do things there. 

 

I found when I was working being a soft-spoken woman could have a downside - I had to become more concious of my communication style.  I didn't necessarily like it because my style was, IMO, better, but it's pretty hard to convince dozens of men who don't even realize it is an issue of that.

 

I can't see that as a reason not to hire someone though, I tend to think that bringing in more personalities and ways of thinking is usually a strength.  I can see some situations where there might be a concern about someone being the only male or female, but better to address it than avoid it I'd say.

[Arcadia]

 There is no similar boys group available, until you get to boys who have actually broken the law or are in some kind of trouble.  Boys apparently don't have the same need for same-sex mentors, to figure out what it means to be a boy or man, or talk about things apart from girls.

 

 

My oldest is at the age where he strongly prefers firm people regardless of gender. So all his outside teachers are the no nonsense, can project an air of self confidence kind.

Guys do their "guys talk" at the pubs or games arcades or restrooms. It can range from heavy metal to game consoles/electronics to R rated talk.

 

One thing I have noticed is that many of the people I know who are in the sciences seem to be more likely to be positive about institutional schooling for kids compared to people from more of an arts background.  Or it could be totally practical - maybe related to their jobs.

If pay is generally higher for the sciences, then the cost of either parent stopping work or going part time to homeschool would be higher. Also the arts is more subjective than sciences. A lot of my neighbors who work in the sciences are happy to after school for their kids strongest and weakest subjects and let the rest be. If they homeschool they are likely to outsource the same subjects but with the lost of one income.

 

The parents of the kids in my kids German and Chinese classes all think languages are better done in a group versus home. So while there are some homeschool kids, languages are still outsourced for the group conversation practice.

Another big topic is labs. When moms love labs as much as dad, kids are likely to be in school, outsource class or dual enrollment. Else their house looks like the science dept of a school :)

[Arcadia]

Got this from my AoPS newsfeed on Facebook

 

Stop telling kids you’re bad at math. You are spreading math anxiety ‘like a virus' https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/04/25/stop-telling-kids-youre-bad-at-math-you-are-spreading-math-anxiety-like-a-virus/

 

"Girls are especially affected when a teacher publicly announces math hatred before she picks up the chalk. A study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reported that female — but not male — mathematical achievement was diminished in response to a female teacher’s mathematical anxiety. The effect was correlated: the higher a teacher’s anxiety, the lower the scores"

 

"Parents’ mathematical anxiety can have a similar effect on their children. Researchers observed that children who received math homework help from mathematically fearful parents showed weaker math achievements than their peers, which in turn resulted in increased math anxiety for the children themselves."

[regentrude]

Got this from my AoPS newsfeed on Facebook

 

Stop telling kids you’re bad at math. You are spreading math anxiety ‘like a virus' https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/04/25/stop-telling-kids-youre-bad-at-math-you-are-spreading-math-anxiety-like-a-virus/

 

"Girls are especially affected when a teacher publicly announces math hatred before she picks up the chalk.

In any company, the employee who publicly announces hatred of the company's procedures or products in front of the client is fired.

This should be completely unacceptable. As a parent, I would be livid.

[OnMyOwn]

I was under the impression that things were getting better in this department.  But I don't know either way. 

 

My husband did tell me though about a woman who had applied to work in his dept.  She was more than qualified and probably mopped up the floor with her qualifications compared with most of the men on the team.  They hesitated to offer her a permanent position because his boss was unsure how she'd fare with the "boy's club".  She ended up going elsewhere.  My husband did not get why they were being such idiots about it. It is very sad to think this crap still goes on and I'd say his employer in general never seemed to be like that. 

 

I was just wondering about this the other day.  The schools seem to be encouraging girls to go into stem.  But, then what happens to them in the workplace?  I'm not so sure I want to encourage my dd to go into a field where she'll have to fight her way into the boys' club at work.  My sister was in a male dominated field 20 years ago and it made her life very difficult.

[Serenade]

Well, my highschool math teacher (female) warned me that male Engineering students don't date female Engineering students, but date the nursing students across the street. (Not referring to specific universities, but generalities...)

 

Not sure if that was why... but I never got a single solitary date in university.

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

 

 

 

When we were dating, my husband, an engineer, said that engineers don't generally get along with each other in a dating situation.  He said all the engineer couples he knew eventually got divorced.  I am not an engineer, LOL, and I feel our personalities balance each other very well.  Opposites attract and all that.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Serenade

[regentrude]

When we were dating, my husband, an engineer, said that engineers don't generally get along with each other in a dating situation.  He said all the engineer couples he knew eventually got divorced.  I am not an engineer, LOL, and I feel our personalities balance each other very well.  Opposites attract and all that.

OTOH, every female physicist I know is married to another physicist. That seems to work very well.

[maize]

When we were dating, my husband, an engineer, said that engineers don't generally get along with each other in a dating situation. He said all the engineer couples he knew eventually got divorced. I am not an engineer, LOL, and I feel our personalities balance each other very well. Opposites attract and all that.

I'm good friends with a two-engineer couple; they've been married for over two decades :)

[Arcadia]

When we were dating, my husband, an engineer, said that engineers don't generally get along with each other in a dating situation. He said all the engineer couples he knew eventually got divorced.

I know many from my early 90s engineering cohort that are still happily married. One of the dept I worked in happen to have all the male engineers married to accountants :lol: My hubby's current dept has no divorce couples and plenty of engin-engin ones.

 

The survival and success of marriages has nothing to do with the degree(s) or occupations of the couple.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, I'm the kind of person who does the exact thing people tell me I am incapable of doing. This would explain why I have my undergrad degree in mathematics. (LOL)

 

Haha...me too.

 

I was at one point considering joining the military (many years ago).  So a recruiter came to my house and said I qualified for any job based on my scores, but that the nuclear program (submarines, etc.) was not open to women.  So I asked him why not.  He tried to give me some lame answer.  He said well you'd have to share a bathroom with guys.  I said I share a bathroom with my dad and it's not a problem.  As soon as he said this I wanted to be in that program.  LOL

[frogger]

I'm not sure there is a way to separate influence from natural inclination. My sister minored in math and I love math and teaching math so it came as a shock that my daughter prefers language, imagery, art, and music in which she intuitively studies math but not with our mathematical language.

 

 

I also assumed that no girls would like to play with dolls and such because well, they don't do anything. I grew up with tom boys who liked climbing trees and putting stuff together. I gave her the same background and her brother's hand me down toys only to roll through the girl aisle one day as a means to getting across the store and seeing her eyes light up.

 

I'm a believer in letting children be who they are and letting them flourish as individuals without some underlying motive to make them this or that. Though I like the idea of tearing down barriers, including assumptions of what people are good at, I don't like the idea of pushing or forcing people towards a certain career path, class, or even certain toys.

[Bluegoat]

Haha...me too.

 

I was at one point considering joining the military (many years ago).  So a recruiter came to my house and said I qualified for any job based on my scores, but that the nuclear program (submarines, etc.) was not open to women.  So I asked him why not.  He tried to give me some lame answer.  He said well you'd have to share a bathroom with guys.  I said I share a bathroom with my dad and it's not a problem.  As soon as he said this I wanted to be in that program.  LOL

 

I think the real reason for this was traditionally that space was just so limited, there was no way for people to have even basic privacy.  So a sub would really need to be all women or all men.

 

The subs are a lot bigger now so I am not so sure that is an issue.  We have women on our (crappy) subs now and they are not the largest by any means.

[Arcadia]

Interesting comment by UCB medalist

 

"“Gender bias is big in STEM,†says Valiveti, who became used to being the only woman on teams of math majors in summer research programs at Kent State and Cornell universities.

 

Among other UC Berkeley faculty mentors, she credits Harrison for championing women in math, a field that is not always welcoming to women.

 

“One problem is keeping young women in STEM once they express interest. Not enough is done to cultivate an atmosphere where they can freely share their thoughts,†she says. “That’s one area where I hope to become a role model.â€"

http://news.berkeley.edu/2016/05/03/medalist2016/

[Mama Anna]

In addition to looking at the level of the mother's confidence in math, I'd be curious about girls who grew up in an otherwise all male household. I did and I'm comfortable with math.

My mom was the only other female in my household growing up and I grew up loving math.  Of course, I'm from a skewed sample because my dad is a university calculus professor who didn't know how to relate to a middle-school daughter other than try to explain calculus to her.  :)

 

However, I didn't end up heading toward STEM; I chose music instead.  My love for science and math does mean that our educational priorities rate them pretty high, though.  (Besides, it's just so much fun to figure out how things work . . . !)

 

Mama Anna

[Arcadia]

However, I didn't end up heading toward STEM; I chose music instead.

Plenty of math in music :)

 

Nice 1988 article "Math: A Common Equation?"

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1988/11/30/music-math-a-common-equation/?page=single

 

ETA:

The 2016 National MathCounts winners are all boys though.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/edward-wan-named-2016-raytheon-mathcounts-national-champion-300265141.html

Edited May 10, 2016 by Arcadia