ACT scores poll

[Homeschoolmom3]

No need to post comments, trying to keep the board anonymous so we can really view how the kids did on average and I think put some stressed out mom's at ease. :thumbup: The poll is right now anonymous when posting your answer. Thanks everyone!

Edited April 19, 2016 by Homeschoolmom3

[creekland]

You should edit it and allow multiple options for those with more than one student who took the test.  

[Homeschoolmom3]

You should edit it and allow multiple options for those with more than one student who took the test.  

 

I am a newbie, how can you do that?  Thanks!

[Matryoshka]

You should edit it and allow multiple options for those with more than one student who took the test.

This.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Okay, so I am trying.  I checked multiple choice allowed is that it?  Not sure exactly how I would edit it any other way but if you can explain to me I am all ears!  :)  Thanks!

[creekland]

Okay, so I am trying.  I checked multiple choice allowed is that it?  Not sure exactly how I would edit it any other way but if you can explain to me I am all ears!   :)  Thanks!

 

It should work with multiple choices allowed selected, but you have to continue all the way through with submitting an edit to the post for it to change the poll (I think).

 

Right now, the poll still doesn't work with multiple options.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Okay, I tried.., if anyone knows anything else to try let me know. Or if someone has luck posting more than one. Thanks and sorry!

[Matryoshka]

Okay, I tried.., if anyone knows anything else to try let me know. Or if someone has luck posting more than one. Thanks and sorry!

 

It works now!  Just put it in for the two kids I have that took it (guess it's good they got scores in different categories - I don't see any way you can calibrate the poll for that eventuality...)

[Homeschoolmom3]

It works now!  Just put it in for the two kids I have that took it (guess it's good they got scores in different categories - I don't see any way you can calibrate the poll for that eventuality...)

 

Yeah!   :hurray:

[creekland]

Thanks!  It works now for me too.  I also don't know of any way to get it to allow for more than one vote in the same category, but that didn't happen to us.

[MerryAtHope]

By way of comparison, here are the general percentiles: ACT scores and percentile rankings. 

 

 

[JoJosMom]

Cool!  What a fascinating poll.  It is interesting to see how the WTM high school population compares to the general population.  Great idea, OP!

[regentrude]

 It is interesting to see how the WTM high school population compares to the general population. 

 

This will be an extremely skewed comparison, especially several states require all high school students to take the ACT, not just college bound students. I doubt homeschooling parents do the same.

[JoJosMom]

This will be an extremely skewed comparison, especially several states require all high school students to take the ACT, not just college bound students. I doubt homeschooling parents do the same.

 

Sigh.

 

I was not saying that it would be statistically significant.  Just interesting.

[Julie of KY]

I don't think polls like this put people at ease - they are obviously skewed. It's interesting though.

I think the WTM forums draw a lot of over-achievers that are in no way average in the first place. Also, no matter how anonymous, I'm not sure that the lower scoring folks will be as likely to bother posting scores or even clicking on the subject title.

 

Edited to add that at the moment over 25% of the respondents have kids scoring in the top 1 percentile.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Julie of KY

[MerryAtHope]

This will be an extremely skewed comparison, especially several states require all high school students to take the ACT, not just college bound students. I doubt homeschooling parents do the same.

 

I think the comparison is important to understand though--and I suspect there are more factors at play than just this one. The poll was started to show moms that numbers are all over the map (someone mentioned that this was true on another college forum where people routinely post scores.) We do have a little of that, but so far our scores really do lean high.

 

Right now (as of 69 students' numbers recorded), there are 35 students in our poll that rank in the top 5% of all students, (more than 50% of the votes cast), and 17 more in the top 13%. In other words--75% of the students represented in the vote to this point statistically rank incredibly high. Even if we were to only look at college-bound high schooler's scores, there's just no way that 75% of them will rank anywhere near this high. Many state schools will list their "average" composites as falling in the 22-24 range--but our average is nowhere near that here, at least at this point. 

 

I'd love to see more recent statistics if anyone knows of any. But this article states that in 2002-2003, the national average homeschool ACT composite was 22.5 (with the national average overall being 20.8). 

 

Anyway--it could be that many people whose kids score lower either don't want to post, or don't visit this board. With such a small poll sampling, it can't be indicative of scores overall, but still, I'm curious where the poll will end up and how it relates to this board.

 

I also think about this in terms of the many answers that came in the "what's a good score" thread. Some really good scores are thought of as not that great--and that may be due to people not really understanding the percentile ranks for the variety of scores. ACT's scale is strange--not only in that it's a 36 point scale and trying to decide what those points mean, but also in that a 1 point difference at certain points on the scale represents a much greater difference than a 1 point difference at other points.

 

Another way for people to look at scores, from Wikipedia:

 

"Following is a list of the average composite scores that typically are accepted at colleges or universities."

 

• Highly selective (majority of accepted freshmen in top 10% of high school graduating class): scores 27–30
• Selective (majority of accepted freshmen in top 25% of high school graduating class): scores 25–27
• Traditional (majority of accepted freshmen in top 50% of high school graduating class): scores 22–24
• Liberal (some freshmen from lower half of high school graduating class): scores 18–21
• Open (all high school graduates accepted, to limit of capacity): scores 17–20

 

Anyway...just food for thought!

[Homeschoolmom3]

Thanks for all of your points, I was hoping all would post and not feel not inclined because they didn't score as well as some.  It was more of a curiosity to see where members fall on this board.  I know that age is a factor too, the age people take it ranges from 8th-12th.  Guess I should have some how figured out how to fix that aspect.   :confused1:   Humbling for my son, who is always been at the "top" in our area.  -_- Something to strive for! 

[creekland]

Of course, one could muse that SWB's style of educating youngsters works (compared to the alternative of average ps).   :coolgleamA:

 

While it's 100% true that not every individual can reach the same pinnacle (academics, football, music, carpentry, art, etc), so a variety of scores will still be expected no matter what, I've found that students can often do better within a system/style that works well for them.  Homeschooling or afterschooling allows one to tweak things to match that style.  

 

Boards like this allow us all to glean from others - what worked, what didn't, what might.  We look at our own kids and contemplate.  We get discouraged, then get over it and try again with something else (or learn that maybe we're asking too much in that situation for our student - BTDT).  We can vent.

 

In short, there is so much more that we can do with this board and a philosophy of education than the typical ps parent even thinks about.  The results do not surprise me at all.

 

And I'm still not saying the student who gets a 33+ is better (as a person) than the student who gets a 15 or doesn't even take the test due to a different path being more suited for them.  This test is merely one measurement of a segment of education.  There is far more that is not measured (like work ethic, other subjects/topics, etc).

Edited April 20, 2016 by creekland

[regentrude]

"Following is a list of the average composite scores that typically are accepted at colleges or universities."

• Highly selective (majority of accepted freshmen in top 10% of high school graduating class): scores 27–30
• Selective (majority of accepted freshmen in top 25% of high school graduating class): scores 25–27
• Traditional (majority of accepted freshmen in top 50% of high school graduating class): scores 22–24
• Liberal (some freshmen from lower half of high school graduating class): scores 18–21
• Open (all high school graduates accepted, to limit of capacity): scores 17–20

 

Very interesting. I would not have considered a school that accepts students with a 27 ACT as "highly selective". To me,this term evokes the schools with average scores well above 30.

My local public U has an average of 28, a 75%th percentile of 31, and an 86% acceptance rate - I would call that barely selective.

 

I am not a bit surprised by the poll results, since it is clear that this board is skewed towards people who put a high importance on academics. Statistics like this

 

I'd love to see more recent statistics if anyone knows of any. But this article states that in 2002-2003, the national average homeschool ACT composite was 22.5 (with the national average overall being 20.8).

 do not seem very meaningful to me.

In my local homeschool group, so far my children have been the only ones to take the ACT. They are the only ones who (will) attend a four year university right away after graduating from homeschool high school. The other homeschooling parents find alternative ways for their kids, even those who are college bound. It is very likely that, had these kids attended a public school, they would simply have participated in the test.

So, I would take the numbers not as evidence that homeschool education is superior, but that homeschooling parents are more flexible and more likely to choose alternative educational paths that do not involve the ACT, and that the homeschooling parents who choose this path are more likely to be the parents of strong students. Self selection, pure and simple.

And then there is also the aspect who self-reports homeschool scores. There is no national register of homeschooled students, in many states you do not have to report at all - so these numbers come from families who have chosen to report scores to whatever entity collected the data. Bias right there.

Edited April 20, 2016 by regentrude

[Homeschoolmom3]

Very interesting. I would not have considered a school that accepts students with a 27 ACT as "highly selective". To me,this term evokes the schools with average scores well above 30.

My local public U has an average of 28, a 75%th percentile of 31, and an 86% acceptance rate - I would call that barely selective.

 

I was wondering about this too?  Maybe it depends on where in the country!   :)

[Homeschoolmom3]

Of course, one could muse that SWB's style of educating youngsters works (compared to the alternative of average ps).   :coolgleamA:

 

While it's 100% true that not every individual can reach the same pinnacle (academics, football, music, carpentry, art, etc), so a variety of scores will still be expected no matter what, I've found that students can often do better within a system/style that works well for them.  Homeschooling or afterschooling allows one to tweak things to match that style.  

 

Boards like this allow us all to glean from others - what worked, what didn't, what might.  We look at our own kids and contemplate.  We get discouraged, then get over it and try again with something else (or learn that maybe we're asking too much in that situation for our student - BTDT).  We can vent.

 

In short, there is so much more that we can do with this board and a philosophy of education than the typical ps parent even thinks about.  The results do not surprise me at all.

 

And I'm still not saying the student who gets a 33+ is better (as a person) than the student who gets a 15 or doesn't even take the test due to a different path being more suited for them.  This test is merely one measurement of a segment of education.  There is far more that is not measured (like work ethic, other subjects/topics, etc).

 

:iagree:

[catz]

Very interesting. I would not have considered a school that accepts students with a 27 ACT as "highly selective". To me,this term evokes the schools with average scores well above 30.

My local public U has an average of 28, a 75%th percentile of 31, and an 86% acceptance rate - I would call that barely selective.

 

I am not a bit surprised by the poll results, since it is clear that this board is skewed towards people who put a high importance on academics. Statistics like this

 

do not seem very meaningful to me.

In my local homeschool group, so far my children have been the only ones to take the ACT. They are the only ones who (will) attend a four year university right away after graduating from homeschool high school. The other homeschooling parents find alternative ways for their kids, even those who are college bound. It is very likely that, had these kids attended a public school, they would simply have participated in the test.

So, I would take the numbers not as evidence that homeschool education is superior, but that homeschooling parents are more flexible and more likely to choose alternative educational paths that do not involve the ACT, and that the homeschooling parents who choose this path are more likely to be the parents of strong students. Self selection, pure and simple.

And then there is also the aspect who self-reports homeschool scores. There is no national register of homeschooled students, in many states you do not have to report at all - so these numbers come from families who have chosen to report scores to whatever entity collected the data. Bias right there.

There are plenty of homeschoolers local to me that never take a standardized test and that's a really good point. They might start CC and transfer at some point, but they don't take a traditional testing route. Or they might take it a single time with no prep for a CC.

 

On scores, I think it is good to keep in mind that when you are look at scores of 30+, you are in the range of highly elite schools and you are looking at the 95th percentile or greater. Heck, 33+ is 99th percentile. These are like Ivies and competitive engineering programs that just want kids in the 30s. A 27 is about the 87th percentile. A 24 is about the 75th. Schools with a 27 average are still out of range for the majority taking the test and would feel selective to them.

 

So with a score of 27 or higher, thats represent about the top 15% of test takers.

[OnMyOwn]

By way of comparison, here are the general percentiles: ACT scores and percentile rankings.

This is the information that has been the most helpful to me. Looking at the poll above, my son's score is on the lower end. I have had the impression that his score was in the 50th percentile, but looking at the link, it is in the 79th. That was a surprise to me. So definitely worth looking at to get a better idea of where your child stands compared to the national average.

[8filltheheart]

Fwiw, my kids prefer the SAT over the ACT and their scores on the 2 tests are not equivalent (though charts exist for making a comparison.) The ACT is a much heavier reading speed test than the SAT, so if your student is at all a slow reader and gets tired testing, the SR section of the ACT can really bring down the composite score.

 

In terms of scholarships, it depends on the school, but we are a scholarship dependent family. If my kids want to go away to college, the equivalent of a 32 is our objective bc there are several schools offering full-tuition scholarships at that level.

[OnMyOwn]

Fwiw, my kids prefer the SAT over the ACT and their scores on the 2 tests are not equivalent (though charts exist for making a comparison.) The ACT is a much heavier reading speed test than the SAT, so if your student is at all a slow reader and gets tired testing, the SR section of the ACT can really bring down the composite score.

 

In terms of scholarships, it depends on the school, but we are a scholarship dependent family. If my kids want to go away to college, the equivalent of a 32 is our objective bc there are several schools offering full-tuition scholarships at that level.

Do you feel this holds true even with the recent changes to the SAT? I ask because my impression (which may very well be wrong) is that the college board basically made the SAT a lot more like the ACT.

[angela in ohio]

The results on this board's polls cannot be used to say anything about homeschoolers in general.

 

Even those studies about homeschoolers can't, as most of the ones I have seen were just folks from one curriculum company's customers.

 

I think the most helpful thing about this poll is to help folks understand that when they read posts on this board, these are the people they are listening to, for better or worse. :D So you can check the poll, see where your kiddos fit in, and then use that to interpret posts. Everyone's kids seem to be ahead of yours in math and it makes you despair? Think about the fact that you are hanging out with a disproportionate number of folks with high achieving kids and feel better! It says nothing about where your kids stack up in reality (not that that matters much anyway, ftr.)

[8filltheheart]

Do you feel this holds true even with the recent changes to the SAT? I ask because my impression (which may very well be wrong) is that the college board basically made the SAT a lot more like the ACT.

Yes.  

[Arcadia]

The ACT is a much heavier reading speed test than the SAT, so if your student is at all a slow reader and gets tired testing, the SR section of the ACT can really bring down the composite score.

The new SAT which started in March is about as reading heavy as the ACT. Even the math section in the new SAT is wordy.

 

I have a speedy reader and a slow reader so the difference in practice test scores between my boys is stark. I would not send my slow reader into any timed test without test prep. The Science section score did bring my fast reader's composite score down because exhaustion has already set in after the Reading section.

[8filltheheart]

The new SAT which started in March is about as reading heavy as the ACT. Even the math section in the new SAT is wordy.

 

I have a speedy reader and a slow reader so the difference in practice test scores between my boys is stark. I would not send my slow reader into any timed test without test prep. The Science section score did bring my fast reader's composite score down because exhaustion has already set in after the Reading section.

 

It is the SR section of the ACT that makes me say that the difference still exists.  My 11th grader has taken practice tests in both and the SAT in Mar.  She does not want to take the ACT b/c her reading speed slows down by the end of the ACT and her SAT scores are consistently higher than the ACT.  (I guess we will know for sure May 10th whether or not she did well on the new SAT.)  

 

With her brother.....thank goodness he took the old SAT before the revisions b/c we didn't pursue extra time and his reading speed is slow.  

[Arcadia]

And then there is also the aspect who self-reports homeschool scores. There is no national register of homeschooled students, in many states you do not have to report at all - so these numbers come from families who have chosen to report scores to whatever entity collected the data.

There is a homeschool high school code for ACT. I used that code for my two boys' ACT registration.

 

I don't think ACT publish that data in any of its research reports though.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Arcadia

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, our homeschool cover school does require the ACT for most (I want to say all, but there is a special Ed certificate option) students to graduate. Prep classes will often have parents raving that their child went from a 17 to a 21 (which is the number to hit because it makes the student eligible for the state lottery scholarship). And yes, most of those kids go to college and do fine there. Not the state flagship or more selective privates, but a lot of reasonable state colleges and private schools. I'm working with a teen now who's ACT is in the mid teens after several attempts. I think she'd be fine in college classes as long as she doesn't take too many with heavy reading loads at one time, but she simply can't handle the speed required on the test because her reading speed is slow.

Edited April 20, 2016 by dmmetler

[plansrme]

There is a homeschool high school code for ACT. I used that code for my two boys' ACT registration.

 

I don't think ACT publish that data in any of its research reports though.

And then there are people who use the homeschool code so the B&M school will not get a copy until she is good and ready for them to get a copy. Not that I know anyone who would do that, of course. Edited April 20, 2016 by plansrme

[MerryAtHope]

Very interesting. I would not have considered a school that accepts students with a 27 ACT as "highly selective". To me,this term evokes the schools with average scores well above 30.

My local public U has an average of 28, a 75%th percentile of 31, and an 86% acceptance rate - I would call that barely selective.

 

I am not a bit surprised by the poll results, since it is clear that this board is skewed towards people who put a high importance on academics. Statistics like this

 

 do not seem very meaningful to me.

In my local homeschool group, so far my children have been the only ones to take the ACT. They are the only ones who (will) attend a four year university right away after graduating from homeschool high school. The other homeschooling parents find alternative ways for their kids, even those who are college bound. It is very likely that, had these kids attended a public school, they would simply have participated in the test.

So, I would take the numbers not as evidence that homeschool education is superior, but that homeschooling parents are more flexible and more likely to choose alternative educational paths that do not involve the ACT, and that the homeschooling parents who choose this path are more likely to be the parents of strong students. Self selection, pure and simple.

And then there is also the aspect who self-reports homeschool scores. There is no national register of homeschooled students, in many states you do not have to report at all - so these numbers come from families who have chosen to report scores to whatever entity collected the data. Bias right there.

 

I thought that too about "very selective!" The only thing I could think was that "very selective" is a step below "Ivies and Elites?" 

 

The homeschool statistic was meaningful to me for a few reasons:

 

I did wonder if it was only representative of those who elect to report (versus all those who enter the homeschool code on their test). If it's elective reporting, I think that's particularly interesting--it would likely be all or almost all future college students in that case (versus the other statistic including those who were required to take it in high school no matter what)--which means that there likely isn't much if any gap between homeschool students and public school students in this regard. But the other reason I posted it was to show how a larger pool of testers than WTM have a much, much lower "average" than WTM is showing--I wanted people to see that the WTM poll numbers are not indicative of the overall landscape (even of WTM-ers--just the ones who post here!), but definitely not of hsers in general; instead, here are down to earth numbers. Hopefully it will help some moms to rest easier :-)

 

This is the information that has been the most helpful to me. Looking at the poll above, my son's score is on the lower end. I have had the impression that his score was in the 50th percentile, but looking at the link, it is in the 79th. That was a surprise to me. So definitely worth looking at to get a better idea of where your child stands compared to the national average.

 

EXACTLY! The first time I saw this, I had stigmas left over from my own experience in high school--I was surprised to learn more about how the scores actually compare. 

 

I think the most helpful thing about this poll is to help folks understand that when they read posts on this board, these are the people they are listening to, for better or worse. :D So you can check the poll, see where your kiddos fit in, and then use that to interpret posts. Everyone's kids seem to be ahead of yours in math and it makes you despair? Think about the fact that you are hanging out with a disproportionate number of folks with high achieving kids and feel better! It says nothing about where your kids stack up in reality (not that that matters much anyway, ftr.)

 

Yes.