Sarah0000 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 My four year old is having tantrums when he can't seen to make up his mind. I ask if he wants to go to an event, such as story time, he says yes, when we get there he says lets go home, when we get back in the car he says he wants to go back and throws a fit. I have tried to enforce staying so he learns but he complains so much and I don't want to disturb others. When he realizes we're leaving for good he hangs on to bars so I can't pull him, he hits me and kicks me the whole way, I have to wrestle him into his car seat (which I wouldn't do except I have a baby I'm trying to carry at the same time). Other times he is mostly well behaved. He usually listens well when I say its time to go home from the park because its time to make dinner, for instance. I'm not sure what the trigger is. Maybe when its something that is pretty much solely his decision? When there isn't a concrete schedule as far as why and when we're done with something? Does this sound like mostly normal four year old behavior or do I need to look into therapy or testing or concrete coping strategies? Any advice? This has been going on for about two weeks. Maybe I should just avoid taking him any place and hope it is a phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 And I also said a few terrible things to him. I feel awful about it. But after he called down I asked if he remembers the mean things I said intending to discuss it, but he truly had no idea what I was talking about. This was only five minutes after I said them. Is it possible he shut everything out during his fit and really didn't hear me? Is that normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) . This was only five minutes after I said them. Is it possible he shut everything out during his fit and really didn't hear me? Is that normal?Yes that is possible. My extended family is eccentric, hard to gauge normal. My oldest can't hear anything when he is that stage as a young kid. Hubby or me have to bear hug him to a safe spot and let him calm down. Hitting and kicking were common even though oldest speak in complete sentences very early. It is like speech shuts down in that emotional stage and kids aren't that ready to self-calm at 4 years old. We did survive the stormy twos/threes/fours and live to tell :) Both my kids have different triggers for meltdowns so it is hard to tell whether the tantrums is worth a doctor visit. ETA: My oldest was rigid about schedule as a baby until school age. We didn't need a watch because his intrinsic time clock was so accurate. After 6 years old he was more flexible year on year other than when he was very hungry. My younger as a toddler would want out of the house by 10am daily. He would climb into his stroller waiting and he is supposedly an introvert. Otherwise he was happy following oldest's schedule thankfully. Edited March 30, 2016 by Arcadia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertflower Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 How old is the baby? Could it be that he went from being the center of your attention to having to share that? I'm not an expert, but it could be that he's trying to get your attention......see if you would do what he wants to do when he wants to do it......I'm not sure if I would use the word manipulate because that is such a strong word....... It may be just a phase. I hope I made sense. I'm sorry, but I don't have any other advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Two weeks isn't long enough to make a determination if help is needed, imo. I would start a log if you can of when these are occuring to help in identifying triggers. My son had extreme rages (later diagnosed with Aspergers) but this doesn't sound like that. One of my son's triggers was red food dye (and MSG.) I had noticed that we had issues after every time we ate at Taco Bell. A friend suggested I watch the food dye, and it was unbelievable how much that affected him!! It affected him anywhere from 1 hour to 12 hours later. That is just a trigger I would watch for....what did he eat before hand? Give him a month or two of observation, and if you're still struggling get help. I struggled way too long. As for the forgetting 5 minutes later, yes, he does shut out everything when he's upset. That's why you can't reason with him once he is having a fit. I think that's pretty typical. You reason with them at another time....not during a fit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Ok, maybe he is reverting a little then and its just harder for me to deal with in public and with a baby. When he was younger I had to bear hug him to calmness as well, but its been awhile since he's needed that. He's also started to wet the bed again this whole past week and has been being difficult about eating again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 The baby is 15 months old. ODS seemed to have accepted him fine and they usually play together pretty well. I try to involve them both on things we do. I also make it a point to give ODS one on one time with my undivided attention, but its not as much as before. I will watch for dye as well. Usually I do avoid that stuff but this morning we did have Eggo blueberry waffles that may have contained something bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 He's also started to wet the bed again this whole past week and has been being difficult about eating again. Weather change and/or anxiety is what my kids pediatrician suggested. My oldest trend as a under 5 coincide with weather change. While having a baby sibling might have an effect of reverting behaviour, sometimes it is just a growing up process. Kids want more independence and then they want the cuddles too. My big size oldest recently just love plopping on my lap because he is taller than me but still want cuddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 These may already be well covered, but my daughter (who has epic meltdowns at the best of times) is more prone to them if she is tired, hungry, or going through a growth spurt. The same outings just before a mealtime and just after can have drastically different results. I'm pretty sure she's going through a growth spurt right now (more tired than usual and eating everything) and it's been a hellish couple of weeks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEC Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'd wonder about anxiety. oldest did (and to some degree still does) do the same thing - can't make a decision and gets very upset about all possible outcomes. I think, essentially, he's overwhelmed by the opportunity cost and can't figure out how to integrate conflicting feelings. Anxiety is pretty common, and actually more common among the intellectually gifted. Happily, there is help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolate-chip chooky Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Have there been any changes in his life recently? Moving house, starting preschool, relatives visiting, new neighbours? These sorts of things can seem small(ish) to us but can be overwhelming to a young child who thrives on routine and predictability. The child can regress in some areas and 'act out' as a means of having some control in what feels like an unpredictable portion of his life. Also, is it possible that there's some other area of his development that is really spurting ahead? I've seen children before who are going through an intense phase in some area (physical or cognitive) and it's like their body and brain can't do everything at once and other skills seem to regress for a while. I have no idea if these fit your situation, but I thought I'd throw them out there as possibilities. I hope things settle down for you soon and wish you all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I would monitor sleep, sugar, chocolate, and caffeine consumption as well. For one of my kids, though, sleep was a big one. When he gave up the afternoon nap, his behavior got really bad in the evening, and honestly, I'm not sure it's recovered years later. :( I try hard to get him to go to bed on time, but he has trouble falling asleep, and then he's up early in the morning :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 My child has a hard time every spring when the clock changes, though he is tired and not focused rather than having meltdowns. Almost like jet-lag. It takes him a month to get into a good sleep pattern. Could it be that your DS is sleep deprived because of the change in time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Sounds normal to me. Exhausting, but normal. It sounds like, for whatever reason, this story time thing is making him really anxious. Is it possible that he is misunderstanding the verbal communication you are having? Because the in/out yes/no stuff you are talking about - with the back and forth switching of opinion - seems to happen here, however if I wait more and dig deeper, it is a misunderstanding of the questions or situation. The desire hasn't changed (usually), but they don't understand what I am discussing about the issue, and will say or agree to something they really don't want, then will be upset about what we are doing. It feels insane (the yes/no/yes/upsest). When I figured out what was going on I have found that generally not expecting a change in main opinion, but expecting a misunderstanding in speech has helped tremendously and I find my formerly fickle child is not so flip-flop as I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThoughtfulMama Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) We get behavior like this with growth spurts. Usually the behavior kicks in right before the excessive eating/drinking, and then the growth starts after that. For my kids the evil usually lasts about 2-3 weeks. Edited to add: as posted above, my kids also do this before cognitive spurts Edited March 30, 2016 by ThoughtfulMama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 My child has a hard time every spring when the clock changes, though he is tired and not focused rather than having meltdowns. Almost like jet-lag. My boys has been asking for blackout curtains this year as the sunrise was before their usual waking up time and they are still feel sleepy. The longer daylight hours also means my boys are eating more small meals than wintertime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Ok, maybe he is reverting a little then and its just harder for me to deal with in public and with a baby. When he was younger I had to bear hug him to calmness as well, but its been awhile since he's needed that. He's also started to wet the bed again this whole past week and has been being difficult about eating again. Previous history of bear hugs to calm--maybe sensory stuff/overwhelm--this has a huge overlap with anxiety in some kids; eating troubles can be sensory too Wetting the bed--I would ask the ped about this if he's been potty trained for a while. You might also look at retained reflexes if you are having sensory issues. They can go along with sensory stuff and cause some emotional turmoil. They can also cause bedwetting problems (retained spinal gallant). I agree about looking at triggers and keeping a journal. We ultimately had diagnostically significant stuff going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 No major changes except he moved to his own bed and his own room, but he requested that and doesn't want to sleep with me anymore even when I ask him to. I think he does have some sensory issues like he hates getting his hands greasy, doesn't like putting his hands inside stuff like snack boxes, and he does tend to meltdown when things aren't done in the right order like if I put his shirt on his head first instead of his arms. None of that was happening before or during these extreme tantrums though... I believe he has had a cognitive spurt recently. Unless I didn't happen to spot his abilities sooner since we don't do a lot of structured academic stuff. It's hard to tell when he answers direct questions rather creatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 A new bed or mattress can trigger bed wetting. We had to bring pull ups and had the no drinks an hour before bedtime on road trips when kids were younger as hotels trigger bedwetting sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 That's interesting about the bedwetting in new beds. I wonder how long it will last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 We have no nightlights and light blocking shades in all the bedrooms (and my room *still* has too much light)..... I think it does help with two of our kids sleeping more, but the third--when he wakes up, he just pops out of bed. I think his bladder is his alarm clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Could it be ASD? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 I'm just going to try to ride it out for the next couple weeks and see if things change. After he calmed down and power napped he did come to me and apologized for becoming wild. He's brought it up multiple times how he's sorry about that. Poor little guy. I'm just trying to support him emotionally now and make sure he doesn't feel badly about the incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 My first thought is that he is experiencing some mild to moderate anxiety about making decisions, and this is how it is exhibiting. Moving into a new bed/room is a big change, as well. I would not ask him if he wants to attend story time. You make the decision based on whether or not you think it is a good day for you all to go, including him. Don't take him when he is tired, hungry or ill in any way. Keep things low key for awhile and see if this is a period which passes for him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriM Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 If he's apologizing after a nap, that's a very good sign. That sounds like stress and needing more sleep/quiet time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) No major changes except he moved to his own bed and his own room, but he requested that and doesn't want to sleep with me anymore even when I ask him to. I think he does have some sensory issues like he hates getting his hands greasy, doesn't like putting his hands inside stuff like snack boxes, and he does tend to meltdown when things aren't done in the right order like if I put his shirt on his head first instead of his arms. None of that was happening before or during these extreme tantrums though... I believe he has had a cognitive spurt recently. Unless I didn't happen to spot his abilities sooner since we don't do a lot of structured academic stuff. It's hard to tell when he answers direct questions rather creatively. Is it possible he is sleeping more soundly than he did when sharing a bed? Do you get up in the night to go to the toilet which was providing him a cue? ds6 has the worst tantrums when he is making a developemental step, hungry or secretly worrying about something. Also he may genuinely not know whether he wants to attend or not. Maybe he is not quite ready to make the decision yet or at least not at the moment. Edited April 2, 2016 by kiwik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 My kids' worst behavior was almost always due to needing sleep or needing food (being off-schedule made it horrible at home in those young years). :hug: I also had a rule for crying (not crying because they got a boo-boo, just crying in frustration/anger/attention/etc.), you can cry in your room on your bed. It was just matter of fact. Attention tears almost always ended abruptly, the other tears would either reach a peak and end in blissful sleep or child would quickly go to sleep. I didn't go to library reading times, organized play groups, etc. when my kids were young. balancing schedules of a pre-schooler, a toddler and an infant almost always meant someone would be in fit mode. They are all fairly well adjusted now, though :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YsgolYGair Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 Have you considered not giving him choices? Decision making is genuinely difficult for some folks, especially those with minds that see and analyse things more than others. I am like this... sometimes there's just too many factors to make a certain decision. In fact, I will regularly ask my husband to do so, because I get overwhelmed with the analysing and researching. It's something to consider just not giving him choices - at all, making all the decisions for him. He may feel very comforted by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 He has also suddenly started becoming anxious and scared about movies that he use to watch without a problem. I think he is becoming more aware of bad stuff and empathizing more, so that could be making him more anxious as well. I think I will reduce his choices as well. He also came down with fever and vomiting, so that could have been contributing over the last few days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 :grouphug: hope he gets well soon. Sometimes not giving a choice works. My kids have fun saying "Its all mommy's fault!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Thanks everyone for helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.