Derek Owens Precalculus

[OnMyOwn]

Is there ant built in cumulative review in this program? How long does it take to complete a lesson? Has anyone switched to this from Saxon with success? TIA!

[Familia]

One of our children took Derek Owens Physics and Calculus after Saxon with success.  I'll ask him about the cumulative review, but the exams were cumulative for each semester.

We couldn't have been more pleased with Derek Owens!  The lectures and work were challenging, communication (via email) was personal and quick, and the cumulative report card we received after each homework assignment was worth the price of the class to me=)   Homework assignments were returned the next day and were personally graded with red pen comments/corrections.

Our son's education really took off while using D.O., probably because of the outside accountability, personal communication (ds contacted him semi-regularly, even about other science/mathy things he had going), and the lecture format.

Time...it took ds a long time each week, but that may be relative to how we homeschool.  Ds watched lectures for about 3-4 hours per week, then homework took him up to another 3-4 hours,  If it was exam week, it was much longer for study.  But, he did study.  I was pleased with this new attitude and very pleased with the outcome...he is now a math major!

 

P.S. I was working part-time and ds wasn't allowed to use the internet when I was gone.  Derek Owens sent, free of charge, all the lectures for the year on a memory stick.  

[Homeschoolmom3]

My son did Saxon from Saxon 1- Saxon Pre-Algebra to Harold Jacobs for Algebra and Geometry and then on to Derek Owens after that with great success.  He is in the Pre-Calculus right now and is 3/4 done and has a high A.  He has loved using DO and we plan to continue the same path with the next oldest.  :)  

 

I can't say about the time it takes, because I am not their managing his time but he works through the class all by himself.  

 

I know the layout is not quite like Saxon in the way it is formed because Saxon is the only one I know of who introduces bits of new information in each lesson and then moves on to something different the next day.  Am I making sense?  Hopefully you know what I am talking about because I know I am not explaining myself too well. Too tired.  :-P  At the end of each semester like the above poster mentioned that there is an exam covering the whole semester.

 

HTH

[EKS]

The only cumulative review is the exam review each semester.  

[OnMyOwn]

My son did Saxon from Saxon 1- Saxon Pre-Algebra to Harold Jacobs for Algebra and Geometry and then on to Derek Owens after that with great success.  He is in the Pre-Calculus right now and is 3/4 done and has a high A.  He has loved using DO and we plan to continue the same path with the next oldest.   :)

 

I can't say about the time it takes, because I am not their managing his time but he works through the class all by himself.  

 

I know the layout is not quite like Saxon in the way it is formed because Saxon is the only one I know of who introduces bits of new information in each lesson and then moves on to something different the next day.  Am I making sense?  Hopefully you know what I am talking about because I know I am not explaining myself too well. Too tired.  :-P  At the end of each semester like the above poster mentioned that there is an exam covering the whole semester.

 

HTH

Yes, I know what you are talking about with Saxon.  Glad your son enjoys DO so much.  That is encouraging.

[OnMyOwn]

One of our children took Derek Owens Physics and Calculus after Saxon with success.  I'll ask him about the cumulative review, but the exams were cumulative for each semester.

We couldn't have been more pleased with Derek Owens!  The lectures and work were challenging, communication (via email) was personal and quick, and the cumulative report card we received after each homework assignment was worth the price of the class to me=)   Homework assignments were returned the next day and were personally graded with red pen comments/corrections.

Our son's education really took off while using D.O., probably because of the outside accountability, personal communication (ds contacted him semi-regularly, even about other science/mathy things he had going), and the lecture format.

Time...it took ds a long time each week, but that may be relative to how we homeschool.  Ds watched lectures for about 3-4 hours per week, then homework took him up to another 3-4 hours,  If it was exam week, it was much longer for study.  But, he did study.  I was pleased with this new attitude and very pleased with the outcome...he is now a math major!

 

P.S. I was working part-time and ds wasn't allowed to use the internet when I was gone.  Derek Owens sent, free of charge, all the lectures for the year on a memory stick.  

I'm surprised to hear the lectures took 3-4 hours per week.  I was left with the impression that the lectures for these classes were very short and sweet?  I'm glad to hear your son did so well with the course, though.  

[OnMyOwn]

The only cumulative review is the exam review each semester.  

Thanks.  We used CLE in elementary and then Saxon from 8/7 - algebra 2.  My dd has done very well with math, but she's always had the constant cumulative review and I don't know how she'll do without it. Hmmmm.

[Julie of KY]

You can download a syllabus and watch some lectures on you-tube to find out exactly how long it all takes. There are usually multiple short lectures per topic - varies on the topic. We haven't done precalc (yet). My son is watching the physics videos at double speed - I have no idea how he can process the information that fast, but he does. My daughter has to go back and re-watch some of her videos as she is slower to pick everything up.

 

In the courses we've done the only review is at the semester exam time.

[OnMyOwn]

You can download a syllabus and watch some lectures on you-tube to find out exactly how long it all takes. There are usually multiple short lectures per topic - varies on the topic. We haven't done precalc (yet). My son is watching the physics videos at double speed - I have no idea how he can process the information that fast, but he does. My daughter has to go back and re-watch some of her videos as she is slower to pick everything up.

 

In the courses we've done the only review is at the semester exam time.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I will do this.  I did watch the precalculus sample video on the website and it was very short, which is good, but maybe the youtube videos will give me a better idea.  Maybe I'll have my dd watch them too.  She likes the instruction to be short and sweet.  

Edited March 3, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[MamaSprout]

We've not done PreCalculus, but Derek's videos are efficient. He talks fairly fast, which is good for my DD (compared to say, Tablet Class), and there doesn't seem to be any extra fluff in the lectures (that is a problem for my doodler, who doesn't always get everything in her notes.)

[EKS]

Thanks for the suggestion.  I will do this.  I did watch the precalculus sample video on the website and it was very short, which is good, but maybe the youtube videos will give me a better idea.  Maybe I'll have my dd watch them too.  She likes the instruction to be short and sweet.  

 

Just to clarify about the length of the videos--

 

Each video ranges from the shortest being about 30 seconds long to being up to 9 or so minutes long (I think there are even some that are longer).  But each lesson will have anywhere from four to ten or more videos.  They are slow moving enough so that taking notes in real time is not a problem (for me anyway).  

[OnMyOwn]

Just to clarify about the length of the videos--

 

Each video ranges from the shortest being about 30 seconds long to being up to 9 or so minutes long (I think there are even some that are longer).  But each lesson will have anywhere from four to ten or more videos.  They are slow moving enough so that taking notes in real time is not a problem (for me anyway).  

Ah, that is helpful and does clarify.  I was thinking there was one very short video for each lesson.  My dd had been using the Art Reed dvds with Saxon and they are usually under 10 minutes and even with those, she got to where she prefers to skip the video and just read the text.  We'll still take a peek, though.  It's been a busy day and I haven't had a chance to find the youtube videos yet.

[mayaangel]

My daughter just finished the precalc and she enjoyed it!  There was no cumulative review outside of the end of semester reviews for the semester exams.  She said she took notes and reviewed those notes as she went along.  She also worked out of the textbook for extra practice when she needed it.   She was able to spend 1 1/2 - 2hrs a week watching the  videos in a chapter.  Each video on average was anywhere from 2 - 6 minutes long with a few exceptions.     What she most liked was her ability to work at her own pace and also that she felt he explained things pretty well.  She will do the AP calc and Physics with him next.  Hope this helps.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

My daughter took a different DO class. The video set-up was frustrating for her. She eventually dropped her DO class in large part because of the videos. Derek Owens is kind and quick with responses. Having several short videos just felt choppy and overly time consuming for my dd. Dropping it was a tough decision. I wish he offered live on-line classes.

[Eliz]

My daughter took a different DO class. The video set-up was frustrating for her. She eventually dropped her DO class in large part because of the videos. Derek Owens is kind and quick with responses. Having several short videos just felt choppy and overly time consuming for my dd. Dropping it was a tough decision. I wish he offered live on-line classes.

 

It would be wonderful if he offered live online classes!  My daughter did not do well with this format.  She doesn't like math and felt the time to get through each lesson was excessive.  I think it was because she doesn't like math.  Personally, I like the short videos because it easy to return a specific topic.

[lmrich]

My daughter took a different DO class. The video set-up was frustrating for her. She eventually dropped her DO class in large part because of the videos. Derek Owens is kind and quick with responses. Having several short videos just felt choppy and overly time consuming for my dd. Dropping it was a tough decision. I wish he offered live on-line classes.

If you live in the Atlanta area, he teaches in the metro area. 

 

My dd is in DO precalc. She attends class for 1 1/2 hours once a week, but she can go back and watch the videos to gain clarity. The class is challenging but accessible. I mean one can do well with hard work even if they are not a "math kid."

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We would certainly consider the classes if we lived in the area. :)

[RootAnn]

My daughter just finished the precalc and she enjoyed it!  There was no cumulative review outside of the end of semester reviews for the semester exams.  She said she took notes and reviewed those notes as she went along.  She also worked out of the textbook for extra practice when she needed it.   

 

This is a big deal for us. DD#1 is taking DO Physics this year & because she doesn't review notes or do extra practice in the textbook (that the course is based on) on her own, the cumulative first semester exam was crippling. We are a spiral math family. We all do better with on-going spiral review & lots & lots & lots of practice to achieve mastery. The physics class is not set up this way and even though some of the material builds on each other, it is not enough on its own for my kid. This semester, we are trying to build in our own review & extra practice so the final exam isn't as devastating.

 

So, know your kid. If you have one that needs the review & extra practice but doesn't have the skills/knowledge to build it in on his own, you will either need to help him to do that or choose a different program.

 

The videos aren't too bad, although they can be very time-consuming. DO sent a thumb drive at no extra cost & DD can just select a section of videos to watch consecutively without it being as choppy as picking & watching one at a time. 

[dereksurfs]

My daughter took a different DO class. The video set-up was frustrating for her. She eventually dropped her DO class in large part because of the videos. Derek Owens is kind and quick with responses. Having several short videos just felt choppy and overly time consuming for my dd. Dropping it was a tough decision. I wish he offered live on-line classes.

 

Hi Woodland Mist Academy,

 

Would you mind sharing the course which your daughter struggled in?  I am trying to decide on DO for our middle daughter next year who will be taking Pre-A.  It will be her first online class.  She's using MM right now which is not spiral.  Though they do offer good built-in reviews before the tests and cumulative reviews before mid-terms and finals.  

 

I've generally heard good reviews of the DO courses.  This is the first time I've heard of problems with the video format and lack of reviews before mid-term/final exams.  Since there are so many who take DO classes with positive results, I guess the format works better for some than others.  Still, it is very good to know that for some there are problems as we have very different styles of learners in our family.  I can imagine dropping being a hard thing to do but better if it simply was not working out.

[RootAnn]

  This is the first time I've heard of problems with the video format and lack of reviews before mid-term/final exams.  

 

Actually, Sue in St Pete has been including the lack-of-review-before-tests in her reviews since 2011. (I couldn't find the 2011 reviews linked in a lot of threads, so I'm linking to a 2015 reposting.)

 

The video format being problematic (again, physics) was also pointed out in 2011.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Hi Woodland Mist Academy,

 

Would you mind sharing the course which your daughter struggled in?  I am trying to decide on DO for our middle daughter next year who will be taking Pre-A.  It will be her first online class.  She's using MM right now which is not spiral.  Though they do offer good built-in reviews before the tests and cumulative reviews before mid-terms and finals.  

 

I've generally heard good reviews of the DO courses.  This is the first time I've heard of problems with the video format and lack of reviews before mid-term/final exams.  Since there are so many who take DO classes with positive results, I guess the format works better for some than others.  Still, it is very good to know that for some there are problems as we have very different styles of learners in our family.  I can imagine dropping being a hard thing to do but better if it simply was not working out.

 

Edited to remove personal info. 

 

It was physics. Feel free to PM me for more info. 

Edited March 12, 2016 by Woodland Mist Academy

[MarkT]

Actually, Sue in St Pete has been including the lack-of-review-before-tests in her reviews since 2011. (I couldn't find the 2011 reviews linked in a lot of threads, so I'm linking to a 2015 reposting.)

 

The video format being problematic (again, physics) was also pointed out in 2011.

We have never taken a DO class but it seems he expects a certain academic maturity.  He has a review for the mid-term (1st semester) and the final which is typical. For chapter tests, the student should have taken adequate notes and self-studied along with doing a few un-assigned problems as review. Maybe a 9th grader is not mature enough for this style of class or the parent has to encourage the topic review.

 

another previous reviewer said:

"We looked through the workbook. Ds knew almost everything in the first semester workbook already. It was extremely easy, and bore no relation to the materials covered in Giancoli. "   

It appears that the student already knew the material - is that Mr Owens fault?  The website does imply it follows the old Giancoli text material coverage so if it does not then that note should be removed from his website.

 

He seems to offer the videos on a media format (CD, USB drive) so maybe that is better way to do the class.

[Hilltopmom]

I'm a bit nervous about the video uploading issue (we have DSL but it's fast enough for Netflix), but will request them on usb if need be. We're still planning on trying DO out for Alg 2 starting in a couple weeks. If it doesnt work out, we can alwys try something else (but man, i hope it works out well!)

[RootAnn]

We have never taken a DO class but it seems he expects a certain academic maturity.  He has a review for the mid-term (1st semester) and the final which is typical. For chapter tests, the student should have taken adequate notes and self-studied along with doing a few un-assigned problems as review. Maybe a 9th grader is not mature enough for this style of class or the parent has to encourage the topic review.

He seems to offer the videos on a media format (CD, USB drive) so maybe that is better way to do the class.

 

Since there is no text (we have Giancoli, but I have to search to line things up), there are no "un-assigned problems" to review. There are only the sample problems for each chapter and the homework problems. The sample problems are worked prior to attacking the homework. The homework is done because that is what DO grades. The only extra problems are the ones he has for the semester exam review. That's what Sue in St Pete referenced as what she (and what we) used to review for the chapter tests. Then, she re-used them to review for the semester/final exams.

 

Lots of people have no issue with the video format. We use the USB format. The CD format is no longer offered.

 

Most online classes expect a 'certain academic maturity.' My point in bringing these points up is to let people know what possible negatives there are. Mr Owens is great to work with. But, there are certain things that could be issues for some kids. I can only speak to the format of the physics class. Knowing that & how my kids' needs, I know whether or not to take any other DO classes in the future. I'm just trying to extend the same knowledge level to others.

[MarkT]

Since there is no text (we have Giancoli, but I have to search to line things up), there are no "un-assigned problems" to review. There are only the sample problems for each chapter and the homework problems. The sample problems are worked prior to attacking the homework. The homework is done because that is what DO grades. The only extra problems are the ones he has for the semester exam review. That's what Sue in St Pete referenced as what she (and what we) used to review for the chapter tests. Then, she re-used them to review for the semester/final exams.

That is a problem. DO should provide a cross reference to that edition of Giancoli or not mention it in his course description. Many students do like a real text book for reference and additional practice problems.

 

The next person who signs up for the Physics course should ask DO for a cross reference to the text!

Edited March 13, 2016 by MarkT

[anne1456]

My son did pre-calculus, and for each chapter there were two versions of the test. So he took test #1 and submitted it, and then used test #2 later to review for the semester exam, along with the provided review. That was plenty of review for him. 

[dereksurfs]

Since I have been planning on enrolling two of our kids in DO math classes next year, I was somewhat concerned about test preparation issues.  So, I wrote Derek and received some very helpful information which eased my mind.  For the sake of others who may read this thread, I wanted to share Derek's thoughtful response:

 

"First, thanks for the email and the info.  The link to the Well Trained Mind discussion board was very helpful.  I do try to make my courses fit what people want and need, and feedback is always appreciated.  I was on the WTM board several years ago, but have been too busy to participate there lately, so that information was certainly helpful.

 

Also, understand that while my courses are basically complete and in place, I still actively work on all of them.  I will record new videos to improve the explanations, or sometimes just to improve the audio and video quality, and I still write new lessons and create new practice problems.  So the courses all gradually continue to change, and these changes are driven primarily by three things:  1) my own study of the material,  2) my experience in the classroom, actually teaching these lessons to the students, and 3) feedback from the parents and students.  Based on these things, some of the questions in your email are being addressed, although gradually.  Last year, for example, I expanded the exam review for Algebra 1 and for Calculus, completed videos for several new exam review problems in almost every course, and completed all of the “Version 2†tests for each chapter of each course.  I also added some additional practice problems and example problems in Algebra 1, Physics, and Precalculus.  I still have a long list of improvements that I want to work on, and in the summers (when the workload slows down to about half) I usually make a good bit of progress on such tasks.

 

I appreciate your comments on the Dolciani book.  I do have Book 1 and Book 2, and while the books themselves are a little dated, the problems are excellent and I do like the organization that they bring to the courses.  I don’t use the “spiral†review approach that Saxon uses, but I do think a mid-semester, cumulative, mixed review would be a good idea to add to all of the algebra courses, and would actually not be that hard to do.  That could be a project for this summer.

 

Right now, for the Precalculus course, I use the 4^th edition textbook by Michael Sullivan to assign practice problems.  These are not graded, but I do welcome questions on any of them and help students with them as needed.  If a student wanted even more practice, there are many problems in the book, and I doubt that a student would ever exhaust that one text as a source of practice problems.  That said, I do hope to, at some point, expand the practice problems in my course to the point where the text is essentially superfluous, but still available if needed.  For the exam review for each semester, I have a large set of review problems with solutions worked out.  The students in my live classes have never asked for more review beyond that, but if someone did want some more review beyond that I would welcome such a request and would try to help.  Also, I have two versions of each semester exam, and if a student needs to retake the exam for some reason the version 2 exam is available for that purpose.  Sometimes I have students ask to take the version 2 semester exam, or the version 2 chapter tests, in advance just for practice and that is certainly okay.  I encourage students and parents to get in touch as needed, and I generally can be flexible and try to find a good solution to special requests from parents when they need something, or when they need the course modified in some way to fit their situation."  -- Derek Owens

Edited April 21, 2016 by dereksurfs

[swimmermom3]

This is a big deal for us. DD#1 is taking DO Physics this year & because she doesn't review notes or do extra practice in the textbook (that the course is based on) on her own, the cumulative first semester exam was crippling. We are a spiral math family. We all do better with on-going spiral review & lots & lots & lots of practice to achieve mastery. The physics class is not set up this way and even though some of the material builds on each other, it is not enough on its own for my kid. This semester, we are trying to build in our own review & extra practice so the final exam isn't as devastating.

 

So, know your kid. If you have one that needs the review & extra practice but doesn't have the skills/knowledge to build it in on his own, you will either need to help him to do that or choose a different program.

 

The videos aren't too bad, although they can be very time-consuming. DO sent a thumb drive at no extra cost & DD can just select a section of videos to watch consecutively without it being as choppy as picking & watching one at a time. 

 

One of the many great things about working with Derek Owens is that you can contact him, explain where your child is at and what the issue may be, and he can work with it from there.

 

My ds is doing precalculus with DO now and did the last half of Algebra 2 with him. Sailor Dude really likes being able to work at his own pace and readjust the math around some of his more demanding classes. He says the instruction is very clear and there is just enough practice to get the concept without too much extra work.  I wish we had gone this route earlier.

 

[dereksurfs]

One of the many great things about working with Derek Owens is that you can contact him, explain where your child is at and what the issue may be, and he can work with it from there.

 

My ds is doing precalculus with DO now and did the last half of Algebra 2 with him. Sailor Dude really likes being able to work at his own pace and readjust the math around some of his more demanding classes. He says the instruction is very clear and there is just enough practice to get the concept without too much extra work.  I wish we had gone this route earlier.

 

 

Great to hear, Lisa.  Even though we like WHA, we will be switching to DO next year.  The reason for this is we needed more flexibility.  Our son will be taking an intense chemistry course at our local CC in the Fall which counts as a full high school credit.  So, we plan to focus on science only for Fall.  After which we will start Pre-Calc in the Spring focusing exclusively on math.  Since DO is asynchronous, it provides us the flexibility we require for our schedule.

Edited April 22, 2016 by dereksurfs

[swimmermom3]

Great to hear, Lisa.  Even though we like WHA, we will be switching to DO next year.  The reason for this we needed more flexibility.  Our son will be taking an intense chemistry course at our local CC in the Fall which counts as a full high school credit.  So, we plan to focus on science only for Fall.  After which we will start Pre-Calc in the Spring focusing exclusively on math.  Since DO is asynchronous, it provides us the flexibility we require for our schedule.

 

We have actually done DO in a similar fashion where we hit the math hard for a couple of months and then back off to accommodate the other classes.  For example, ds is focusing on his classes that have AP exams coming soon. When they are over, he still has about a month of school left to wrap up his other classes.  We really appreciate the flexibility.

 

[TCB]

We haven't done precalc yet but are doing Algebra 2 this year. Just wanted to say that there are a ton of review questions provided at the end of each workbook to use for review for the semester exam. Also, my dd looks back through her notes and homework and then reworks some of the problems when studying for the chapter tests. I hadn't thought of using the version 2 chapter test for review before doing the actual test, but that seems like a great idea.