Executive function deficits

[kewb]

My dh is making me nuts. Ds has executive function deficits. We have been working on them. Still quite a ways to go. Ds goes to college on the fall.

Dh is freaking out that ds will fail at college and we shouldn't send him away and that ds should go to local community college in the fall. Dh doesn't think ds is motivated to succeed. Ds doesn't show dh that he is interested in success. That he just flits through life just expecting everything to work out. That ds talks about what he wants but never does the work to get what he wants and then sulks when it doesn't happen. Dh feels ds is too immature to go away.

 

Dh is not 100% incorrect in some of his observations. But I don't agree with keeping ds home and telling him he has to go to community college. I think ds needs to get out of this house where he has lived under dh's illness and disability and all that goes along with it. Dh would be horribly upset if I said this to him. Yes, there is a very real possibility that ds will fail at college but I think if we tell him not to go, no matter the reason, that it will be our fault. He needs to go and take responsibility. He will have to step it up or fail. He is not doing it here because I think he feels hen pecked and micromanaged by his father. With his ef deficits he does need some micromanaging. It is one of the things we are working on.

When dh and I were discussing this last night dh said he is concerned that ds will fail, be afraid to tell us and kill himself. This horrified me. I can't seem to get dh to understand that his ranting about not paying to send him away to college because ds isn't showing him that he is motivated is not helping nor is it motivational. It is self fulfilling prophecy. Why should ds try? Whatever he does is never enough. If ds has a list and gets half of it done there is only "why didn't you get the rest done?" I disageee with dh that ds has to prove his motivation (worth) of our support to go away to college.

A lot of dh's freak out has to do with the fact that dh has ef deficits and failed the first time at college. Failed big time. And his parents put up with it for 3 years. Dh's ef deficits had a huge impact on career success and relationships and he seesa lot of himself in ds. He doesn't want to ds to live his life. He wants to help him so he doesn't fail. I don't think you can prevent someone from making dome of the same mistakes you made. You can share your experience and hope for the best and be there if they fall. I tried telling dh this but he doesn't want to hear it. I am feeling a bit wits ends here.

[DawnM]

First:  :grouphug:   It sounds stressful.

 

Second:  All of our personal experiences play a huge part in how we raise our kids and how we parent.  

 

My husband HATED school.  He found it mind numbing.  He was a huge advocate for pushing me to quit my job and homeschool.  I didn't want to.   

 

He also failed his first go around with college.  He had sailed through school with Bs and Cs and that was good enough for hm.  So he through he could sail through college without doing much work.  It didn't happen.   He flunked out.

 

It wasn't until HE was motivated and realized what he needed to do, and was willing to do it, that he started to own up and do it all himself.  His parents hadn't gone to college, so they didn't encourage him much because they didn't really value it.

 

I won't tell you what to do because it is your son and you know him best, but I will ask a few questions:

 

1.  What does your son want?  I see a lot of what you want and what your DH wants, what does your son want?  Does he care either way?

 

2.   Have you gotten any therapy/counseling?  Honestly, a good therapist can help you sort out some of this stuff IF your DH is wiling.  There are more things going on here than college for your son.

[kewb]

Good questions.

1. I have asked ds what he wants.  He has said he wants to go away to college.  And he has said he wants to get out of the house. We have certainly told him all options are okay-trade school, working while he figures it out.  We support what he wants.

2. I am looking into therapy.  I think it would be good for everyone but not quite sure what I should be looking for.

[Carrie12345]

A lot of dh's freak out has to do with the fact that dh has ef deficits and failed the first time at college. Failed big time. And his parents put up with it for 3 years. Dh's ef deficits had a huge impact on career success and relationships and he seesa lot of himself in ds. He doesn't want to ds to live his life. He wants to help him so he doesn't fail. I don't think you can prevent someone from making dome of the same mistakes you made. You can share your experience and hope for the best and be there if they fall. I tried telling dh this but he doesn't want to hear it. I am feeling a bit wits ends here.

 

I did fail away at college with ef deficits/adhd.  I actually wanted to stay home and go to business school, but my mother pushed me to go to "real" college.

I regret giving in to my mother's pressure more than I regret failing at college. What if I had followed the plan I thought was best for myself?

 

My son has ef deficits/asd.  His plan to get a diploma equivalent and go to community college early terrified me.  I wanted more time to "fix" him (hahaha.)  He's been doing just fine for a year and a half.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Just musing... is it really that ds needs to not live with dh anymore?

 

Can you maybe say, hey, if you would like to move out (stay in town or not, go to cc or go away to college, or move to some random city), we will support you for a year while you figure stuff out?  At the end of the year, let's look at where things are and make some more decisions?

 

That way your son can take control of his life with a safety net.

[lispy]

I'm not sure if this is a possibility where you live, but.....

 

I had a friend in a similar situation with her dd and dh.  They ended up finding a community college that was about an hour and a half a way with on campus living.  This cc has very good ratings, but is virtually unknown around our town because there is a cc within 10 minute drive, so most cc bound students just go there without really much thought of other options.  Anyway, she lived on campus at the cc, but was still close enough for parents to be able to help out with anything that came up.  I don't think she ever needed their assistance though, because this turned out to be a fantastic place for her.  She blossomed in ways that her parents never dreamed.  After two successful years there, she transferred to a small university about 3 hours away (her choice---where originally, before the cc, she had wanted to go straight to big uni two states over.   Because of her grades/club activities at the cc, she was able to get a scholarship.  Due to her grades and other issues, she would not have gotten scholarships as an incoming freshman at a uni.   She is in her senior year doing well.

 

Like I said, I'm not sure that is an option for you, but the point is it may not be an all-or-nothing.  Maybe the three of you can do some research for some mutually acceptable alternatives. 

[kewb]

Just musing... is it really that ds needs to not live with dh anymore?

 

Can you maybe say, hey, if you would like to move out (stay in town or not, go to cc or go away to college, or move to some random city), we will support you for a year while you figure stuff out?  At the end of the year, let's look at where things are and make some more decisions?

 

That way your son can take control of his life with a safety net.

 

Part of it is definitely that ds needs to not be living with dh any longer.  I wish we could afford to support him while he lived elsewhere if he wanted to work or go to community college for a year.

 

As a side note, the colleges he applied to are smaller and have a lot of services in place to support the students.

[Sandragood1]

We have had a good experience with an adhd/ef coach for ds' freshman year. It isn't cheap but it's a drop in the bucket compared to room, board, and tuition.

 

I think hearing council from *someone else* is very good for young adults who have heard everything a million times from their parents and don't hear it anymore.

 

Maybe this would help with dh's anxiety in addition to helping your ds succeed at school.

[Miss Mousie]

As a side note, the colleges he applied to are smaller and have a lot of services in place to support the students.

 

Is your DS still awaiting decisions?  If so, it seems to me that you can buy some time with DH by saying "let's wait until we have all the cards on the table." 

 

Meanwhile, depending on your DS's particular deficits, is there any way to guide him toward faking it in front of DH just for the sake of keeping peace?  I am not normally one to advocate deception, but it sounds like you just need to bide time until college begins, and then you'll see how  everything shakes out after the first semester or year.

 

Is there an internship or camp or job DS can apply for to get him out a bit during the summer?  Any of those activities might do wonders for your Ds's skills, too.

 

How involved is DH in DS's daily work/activities?  Is he uninformed and just (over)reacting from his memories of himself?  The half-finished list, for example - who makes it?  Who checks it?  Can it just become a shorter list for awhile, or one with the same number but smaller tasks, so it doesn't look so dire to DH (or to DS, for that matter)?

 

I'm sorry you're going through this, by the way.  I could see something similar happening here, and I don't think it's good to have to wait so long for the next step.  Too much time to have to manage all the humanness!

 

[kewb]

He has been accepted to 4 collleges so far, including his first and second top picks.  Still waiting to hear from a few others.

 

i get what you are saying about deception.  I am normally not a fan either.  I did have a conversation with him about it this morning.  Not so much deception as that there is a perception issue between him and his father and some strategies to change the perception.  For example, we are doing a light school week.  2 subjects a day and swim practice for the high school which is at 11 am this week due to school break.  He ahs been going to practice and coming home and doing school worlk and going out with friends.  I asked him:Which sounds like you are moitivated?  Went to swim practice got school work done and then hung out with friends or got up early, started my school work, went to practice, came home and finished and then hung out with friends. It doesn't matter if you spent 5 minutes on your school work before you went to practice.  This is about perception.  Which one says "I am taking my future seriously/"

 

 

Ds has been a summer  lifeguard at our town pool since he was 15.  The boy gets to work on time, does his job, he has even managed to get himself clients to give private swim lessons to, and comes home. He is a capable young man. 

 

Dh is not involved in the daily stuff. So some is uninformed combined with his own memories.  Ds and I make list together, working towards him doing them on his own.  He checks it throughout the day.  I check in periodically throughout the day.  The list has actually become a very detailed list.  When it was clean room, English, math, psychology it was not specific enough and ds would not know where to begin.  The list looks more like this: Room: Make bed. Put dirty clothes in hamper. Put away clean clothes.  English: Read chapter 2-3. Answer questions 1-3. Psychology: Finish reading pages 10-12. Answer questions 6-8. His deficits center around organization.  For example. even though he knows what needs to be done to clean up his room, without a step by step list he can not begin.

 

 

[amy g.]

I have one child with autism and multiple learning disabilities and another child who is very gifted academically, but has been a late bloomer emotionally. Neither one of them were ready to go away to a 4 year college at 18.

 

One is finishing her 2 year degree and is transfering from community college with a 4.0. The other one has about 25 credits and is taking a break to work full- time.

 

For MY FAMILY, it would not be an option to send a kid away to school if I feel like he is prepared to suceed. My third child is a high school Jr. And will have 3 semesters of CC before she graduates. At that point, if we think she is ready to do well at a 4 year school, we will let her go, otherwise she will get her 2 year degree before transfering.

 

I hear what you are saying about his needing not to live at home. I completely agree with you? Are there other options?

 

My oldest does not want to live on campus when she transfers. She has friends(families) in 3 different locations who have offered to have her live with them. Depending on who she chooses, we may pay a small amount of rent each month, or she may work off her rent by caring for animals, cooking and cleaning.

 

I don't know if that is an unusual situation, but in your place, I would be looking for a way where he could move out, and start at a 2 year school where he can get more support to mature and learn what it takes to be sucessful in college.

 

I have a good friend whose child has no learning disabilities, and good grades in high school. I encouraged him to at least enroll in CC the summer before leaving for college. He didn't want to do that, and now he is home from his first semester with Cs on his transcript and eager to take CC classes this coming summer.

 

I do not put a ton of stock in grades, but I do believe that sucess builds on sucess. I want to put my children in positions to suceed. I would not want them in an envirionment that they are not prepared to do well in.

 

So I encourage you to think outside of the box. What is a plan where he can be out of the house and starting a new adventure, but also have more of a safety net and a better chance of making good grades instead of flunking out?

[kbutton]

He has been accepted to 4 collleges so far, including his first and second top picks.  Still waiting to hear from a few others.

 

i get what you are saying about deception.  I am normally not a fan either.  I did have a conversation with him about it this morning.  Not so much deception as that there is a perception issue between him and his father and some strategies to change the perception.  For example, we are doing a light school week.  2 subjects a day and swim practice for the high school which is at 11 am this week due to school break.  He ahs been going to practice and coming home and doing school worlk and going out with friends.  I asked him:Which sounds like you are moitivated?  Went to swim practice got school work done and then hung out with friends or got up early, started my school work, went to practice, came home and finished and then hung out with friends. It doesn't matter if you spent 5 minutes on your school work before you went to practice.  This is about perception.  Which one says "I am taking my future seriously/"

 

 

Ds has been a summer  lifeguard at our town pool since he was 15.  The boy gets to work on time, does his job, he has even managed to get himself clients to give private swim lessons to, and comes home. He is a capable young man. 

 

Dh is not involved in the daily stuff. So some is uninformed combined with his own memories.  Ds and I make list together, working towards him doing them on his own.  He checks it throughout the day.  I check in periodically throughout the day.  The list has actually become a very detailed list.  When it was clean room, English, math, psychology it was not specific enough and ds would not know where to begin.  The list looks more like this: Room: Make bed. Put dirty clothes in hamper. Put away clean clothes.  English: Read chapter 2-3. Answer questions 1-3. Psychology: Finish reading pages 10-12. Answer questions 6-8. His deficits center around organization.  For example. even though he knows what needs to be done to clean up his room, without a step by step list he can not begin.

 

I think the perception thing is big, but I would resent (at his age) being told when to do stuff if I'm getting it all done on my own. OTOH, if your son has not had a lot of outside deadlines imposed upon him, it might be good practice. I strongly suspect that your husband feels a lack of control over the situation and is responding to that. Since it's not being done his way, he doesn't feel like he can trust it's being done.

 

I think a life/ADHD coach would be fantastic. Your son has a lot of scaffolding in place, but he needs a little more work (not being able to make a list is pretty debilitating). If he's open to using support in college, a coach could get him to a place where he can identify those weak areas and work on them without it being from mom and dad--it would be a neutral point for all of you. 

 

I would seriously consider working on that list making skill over and over. I would probably try to find sample syllabus information online, make up job schedules, etc. and teach him to plug all of that into some kind of calendar or app, and then talk about surprises--a friend visits from a nearby school one weekend with little notice, so how do you make the schedule continue to work. I would ask him how he would go about filling in the gaps in a syllabus if they are there--for instance, if a text or a set of works is required reading for a course, but it's not broken up. (My much younger son with ASD/ADHD practices this kind of thing now. We make kind of a funnel--priorities/appointments that stay the same, priorities that shift, a rough number of assignments to be completed each week, etc., and then he plugs them into a weekly calendar.)

 

He sounds really responsible, but it is easy to get overwhelmed quickly in a new environment. I think letting him fly is fine as long as he knows what kind of equipment he's flying with--self-knowledge will go a long way in acquiring new skills and getting help from the support services that are available. If he's not sure how to ask for help or what to do with the help he gets, that's a big worry. If he is a good advocate for himself and knows his limitations (within reason), then he will be far more successful, I think.

[kewb]

 

I do not put a ton of stock in grades, but I do believe that sucess builds on sucess. I want to put my children in positions to suceed. I would not want them in an envirionment that they are not prepared to do well in.

 

So I encourage you to think outside of the box. What is a plan where he can be out of the house and starting a new adventure, but also have more of a safety net and a better chance of making good grades instead of flunking out?

 

I agree with you that I believe in putting my children in situations where they will succeed. He has successfully taken classes at our community college.  Together we researched schools that are invested in student success rather than collecting tuition $$.

His first pick school is not too far from my sister and they will be able to include him in things and keep the family connection going.  His second pick school is about an hour from home.  Although, depending on finances we don't know where he will end up at this point.  I have already discussed with him sharing his class syllibi with me and helping him set up his calendar and organizational charts no matter where he ends up going to college.

 

There will be lots of discussion around here for the next few months. Reading everyone else's stories and suggestions is very helpful to making sure I don't have mom goggles on.

[amy g.]

It sounds like you are on completely the right track.

[Carol in Cal.]

What about finances?  Is that the real issue for your DH?

Does he feel like the first pick school is SUCH an expense that if your son wastes his time there and/or fails, it will be a huge financial waste?  What can you do to mitigate that fear, if so?

[Pink and Green Mom]

We have had a good experience with an adhd/ef coach for ds' freshman year. It isn't cheap but it's a drop in the bucket compared to room, board, and tuition.

 

I think hearing council from *someone else* is very good for young adults who have heard everything a million times from their parents and don't hear it anymore.

 

Maybe this would help with dh's anxiety in addition to helping your ds succeed at school.

 

I don't want to derail this thread, but can you please share how you found this type of coach?  I have one that could benefit from this tremendously.

[Miss Mousie]

I think you are right to talk to DS about perception, even if, as a PP said, your DS resents it. 

 

But honestly your DS sounds like he's in pretty good shape.  Taking over the list-making might be my priority throughout the spring semester - that, and trumpeting to DH every accomplishment, no matter how minor! 

 

Do you have any insight into what would make DH more confident in DS?

 

Your poor DH seems to have SO much anxiety over this....  I wouldn't know how to navigate that except to steer clear (which kinda stinks).  At this point, I'm hoping the college near your sister wins - for all the obvious reasons, as well as the possibility of staying with her for a few weeks before classes start - "so he can get accustomed to the campus and town."  ;)

 

 

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

"Dh, you know if he enrolls in college, it's not a life-altering decision. He can choose to withdraw if it's not the place for him after a semester or two."

 

Honestly, with the work experience in place and the community college already, I think he'll probably be fine. Perhaps your son has figured out his own coping strategies and they are different from your dh's so to your dh they are "wrong"?

[Miss Mousie]

"Dh, you know if he enrolls in college, it's not a life-altering decision. He can choose to withdraw if it's not the place for him after a semester or two."

 

Honestly, with the work experience in place and the community college already, I think he'll probably be fine. Perhaps your son has figured out his own coping strategies and they are different from your dh's so to your dh they are "wrong"?

 

 

I think these are both good points.

 

Kewb, it occurred to me that maybe your DH is feeling separation anxiety.  Don't we all have periods of panic over whether our DC is ready for "the future," whatever nebulous future that may be?  Did he have a hard time himself at that point?  Leaving home can bring so much emotional baggage.

 

It's so easy to think of something as "all or nothing" when it really isn't, and it's so easy to get caught up in fear.

[kewb]

Thank you everyone.  Lots of great ideas in here.Miss Mousie, I think he is definitely caught in a fear trap (the very one I was caught in last year).  I had not thought of separation anxiety being part of the root cause of the fear. Yesterday dh seemed to come down off the ledge and has assigned an executive function class to ds.  Found the book he wants him to use and we will all read it and implement it together.

[Alicia64]

We have had a good experience with an adhd/ef coach for ds' freshman year. It isn't cheap but it's a drop in the bucket compared to room, board, and tuition.

 

I think hearing council from *someone else* is very good for young adults who have heard everything a million times from their parents and don't hear it anymore.

 

Maybe this would help with dh's anxiety in addition to helping your ds succeed at school.

 

Awesome idea. I would run with this.