Trigger warning - Have you seen the #DearDaddy video?

[8circles]

http://www.littlethings.com/dear-daddy-violence-women-v5/?utm_source=quirky&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=inspiring

 

I'm not crazy about every detail in the video, but I think it is a really important message and overall very well done.  Thoughts?

Edited December 16, 2015 by 8circles

[umsami]

Trigger warning!

 

It's well done.  It's scary because it's so prevalent.  

[8circles]

Wow. I'm surprised so few people find it interesting.

Edited December 16, 2015 by 8circles

[TammyS]

Wow. I'm surprised so few people find it interesting.

 

Probably a lot of people (like myself) don't want to watch a video of unknown quality while their kids are around.

[JustEm]

I don't like clicking on trigger warnings without having any idea what the video is going to be about. My kids are around me all the time so I'm not risking it. By the time they were in bed I had forgotten about it.

 

I did just watch it though. It was well done. The beginning didn't click with me so I almost closed the browser window. I've never been called a bitch, whore, or slut so I had a hard time deciding if that was a normal thing for middleschool boys to do for fun. I imagine it is normal for many and I was lucky to have gone to a school where just the girls were horrible.

[SorrelZG]

I imagine it is normal for many and I was lucky to have gone to a school where just the girls were horrible.

That sounds more like my school experience (I don't recall hearing boys use such words against girls, just other girls).

 

I haven't watched the video because it requires taking YouTube off restricted mode.

[MercyA]

I didn't grow up being called those names and I don't personally know anyone who had that experience. Is it really that common now? If so, that's scary.  :(

 

I thought the video made it seem as though being drunk somehow wasn't the girl's fault. I don't buy that. Choices have consequences (and obviously the boys are responsible for their actions as well). 

 

I agree that men and boys shouldn't participate in name-calling or vulgar joking. It's wrong and cruel. I didn't really care for the video, though.

[SKL]

Interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure my dad didn't put up with that kind of talk if he could help it.  I'm very blessed.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I didn't grow up being called those names and I don't personally know anyone who had that experience. Is it really that common now? If so, that's scary. :(

 

I thought the video made it seem as though being drunk somehow wasn't the girl's fault. I don't buy that. Choices have consequences (and obviously the boys are responsible for their actions as well).

 

I agree that men and boys shouldn't participate in name-calling or vulgar joking. It's wrong and cruel. I didn't really care for the video, though.

As common place as those comments and jokes were when I was growing up, I am amazed you didn't experience that. That gives me hope, there are pockets in places where this isn't the norm!

 

 

 

This is such a common narrative for many girls growing up. This video does a good job of showing how one small step leads to another.

 

 

 

I am trying hard to raise my boys differently.

[8circles]

I didn't like the drunk part because that isn't the norm for me, that such young ages would be drunk. But this video was made in the Netherlands, I think, so I think it's more understandable from that angle. The message wasn't diminished because of that for me.

 

Unfortunately, I think it *is* common. It was for me in school. Even in elementary. Certainly not my father (he was *very* careful with his language, being an immigrant himself) but by boys and friend's parents. And the advice/instruction to "not let it bother you, they're just joking" and "you're so serious, lighten up". Yeah, this happens A LOT.

[MercyA]

As common place as those comments and jokes were when I was growing up, I am amazed you didn't experience that. That gives me hope, there are pockets in places where this isn't the norm!

 

 

Unfortunately, I think it *is* common. It was for me in school. Even in elementary. Certainly not my father (he was *very* careful with his language, being an immigrant himself) but by boys and friend's parents. And the advice/instruction to "not let it bother you, they're just joking" and "you're so serious, lighten up". Yeah, this happens A LOT.

 

Wow, I had no idea. That's horrible. I went to public school in a small town. Virtually all of the boys I knew were polite and respectful and wouldn't have put up with that kind of language being directed towards their friends. I don't recall ever hearing name-calling like that. I'm sure there was probably some locker room joking among the guys, but we didn't hear it.

[JustEm]

I didn't like the drunk part because that isn't the norm for me, that such young ages would be drunk. But this video was made in the Netherlands, I think, so I think it's more understandable from that angle. The message wasn't diminished because of that for me.

 

Unfortunately, I think it *is* common. It was for me in school. Even in elementary. Certainly not my father (he was *very* careful with his language, being an immigrant himself) but by boys and friend's parents. And the advice/instruction to "not let it bother you, they're just joking" and "you're so serious, lighten up". Yeah, this happens A LOT.

 

See the drinking part is a part I could relate to. I was 14 the first time I ever got drunk and continued to drink throughout highschool. Not often but enough to know that it's normal for teens. Many of my highschool classmates drank every weekend at parties. These kids weren't delinquents. They were the popular kids who played sports, did well in school, and had parents who thought their child could do no wrong.

[Bluegoat]

I don't like clicking on trigger warnings without having any idea what the video is going to be about. My kids are around me all the time so I'm not risking it. By the time they were in bed I had forgotten about it.

 

I did just watch it though. It was well done. The beginning didn't click with me so I almost closed the browser window. I've never been called a bitch, whore, or slut so I had a hard time deciding if that was a normal thing for middleschool boys to do for fun. I imagine it is normal for many and I was lucky to have gone to a school where just the girls were horrible.

 

I don't think I was ever called any of those things in school either, or university, or when I was in the army.

 

I know sometimes people are, but I really don't think its some kind of universal experience for women.  And for that matter, some men are also called derogatory names, in I think very similar kind of situations and a similar frame of mind.

[bolt.]

I think the point of the video is that sexual "joking" among ordinary men/boys makes it culturally easier for some men to choose sexual assault or spousal abuse.

 

I don't really see how that makes logical sense.

 

To me it seems more likely that the "jokes" reflect an awareness of the existing culture around gender, consent, and assault.

 

I think it's a correlation/causation error that 'a leads to b'. In this case I think that a and b have the same cause (normalized covert inequality and dehumanized views of women) not that verbal expressions of it pave the way for crimes.

 

However, social effects are usually accomplished through words and relational actions, and the shifted mindset and verbal advocacy that the woman asks of her "daddy" probably will help de-normalize the views themselves -- therefore possibly having the effect she hopes for.

 

I don't think stopping boys from "joking" makes them less likely to victimize women, but, eventually, a new attitude towards women may develop after the silence of the "jokes" has gone on long enough that the progressive values seem normal to the next crop of boys (who would have to be stopped from joking because they-themselves hold values that would find those jokes distasteful).

 

(I also don't have any concept that these insults are common. The worst of my experience was "bitch" -- meaning rude, unpleasant, bossy, not something sexual, and if sexual or boyfriend-related, perhaps "slut". My kids are in elementary school, where they are getting firm lessons in anti-bullying, that they seem to be buying. There isn't any name calling that I'm aware of.)

Edited December 16, 2015 by bolt.

[JustEm]

I don't think I was ever called any of those things in school either, or university, or when I was in the army.

 

I know sometimes people are, but I really don't think its some kind of universal experience for women. And for that matter, some men are also called derogatory names, in I think very similar kind of situations and a similar frame of mind.

See I keep thinking about this and I know some guys who would certainly refer to girls and women terribly and in their circle it would be normal because the people who wouldn't tolerate it would have just left them behind. But I can't imagine it's universal or near the norm. But then I remember specifically having a rule that if anyone ever referred to me as bitch, slut, or woman I would give them an earful and then be done with that friendship/relationship. No one ever did but obviously I had that rule for a reason. So maybe it did happen around me or I heard that it happened to others so I drew my line in the sand and never had to enforce it. If it werent a thing i would have never come up with my rule. Does that make sense.

[happi duck]

I think it also was speaking to how boys talk among themselves too and what's acceptable in male culture.

 

One doesn't need to be the one called slut etc to be affected by it. Crude jokes and porn tend to be seen as rites of passage and boys being boys. I think those things do chip away at how boys view women.

 

It ends up being like how people say home schoolers are (something negative) "but *not* you". I'm not okay with that and I'm not okay with "girls are (something negative) but *not* you"...kwim?

[SKL]

I don't remember being called those names by boys.  I did have older brothers and heard the conversations when their male friends were over.  It was rude at times, but it was not "to the girls' faces."  There was no verbal assault leading to physical assault, at least not in my observation.  (I attended a public high school in a small town.)

 

Of course, in those days, popular music didn't include rape lyrics and such.  So it might be different now.

[Bluegoat]

I think it also was speaking to how boys talk among themselves too and what's acceptable in male culture.

 

One doesn't need to be the one called slut etc to be affected by it. Crude jokes and porn tend to be seen as rites of passage and boys being boys. I think those things do chip away at how boys view women.

 

It ends up being like how people say home schoolers are (something negative) "but *not* you". I'm not okay with that and I'm not okay with "girls are (something negative) but *not* you"...kwim?

 

I think we need to be so careful about this though.  I very often hear condemnations of particular male behavior like this, but in my experience there are very similar, I would say paralell behaviors, among girls in teh same age range and populations.  When I was of that age in school, I know thee boys made certain kinds of jokes and off colour remarks among themselves, or taled about sexual things that would be considered not politically correct (though not that often they were kids from homes where they wouldn't see that much.)  But I know that the same kind of talk, some of it really inappropriate, went on among the girls - often I think at slightly younger ages than the boys.  In university, I remember groups of girls renting porn movies as a sort of joke girls night in, and in the army it was not uncommon for women to openly talk in a pretty crude way about sexual encounters with some of the men.

 

Not that these were ever everyone or even most, but I think its wrong to see these behaviors and attitudes as a problem that men cause for women.  In my experience, they have a much more universal quality.

[8circles]

I think we need to be so careful about this though.  I very often hear condemnations of particular male behavior like this, but in my experience there are very similar, I would say paralell behaviors, among girls in teh same age range and populations.  When I was of that age in school, I know thee boys made certain kinds of jokes and off colour remarks among themselves, or taled about sexual things that would be considered not politically correct (though not that often they were kids from homes where they wouldn't see that much.)  But I know that the same kind of talk, some of it really inappropriate, went on among the girls - often I think at slightly younger ages than the boys.  In university, I remember groups of girls renting porn movies as a sort of joke girls night in, and in the army it was not uncommon for women to openly talk in a pretty crude way about sexual encounters with some of the men.

 

Not that these were ever everyone or even most, but I think its wrong to see these behaviors and attitudes as a problem that men cause for women.  In my experience, they have a much more universal quality.

 

Interesting.  That was not my experience at all, so I haven't seen that at any age.  I do think that if this is the case, then I support stopping both directions of derogatory "joking".

 

On second thought,  I did experience this a couple girls in college.  They "lived" with the guy in the room next to me & had regular orgies.  It was an experience.

[8circles]

I don't think I was ever called any of those things in school either, or university, or when I was in the army.

 

I know sometimes people are, but I really don't think its some kind of universal experience for women.  And for that matter, some men are also called derogatory names, in I think very similar kind of situations and a similar frame of mind.

 

I always suspected that I received more comments, either directly or within earshot, because I was naturally hourglass-shaped.  I developed quite early and *everybody* noticed.  Not sure if that's true, but it's how I felt.  I'd love to know if that is generally how this works.

Edited December 16, 2015 by 8circles

[goldberry]

I think we need to be so careful about this though.  I very often hear condemnations of particular male behavior like this, but in my experience there are very similar, I would say paralell behaviors, among girls in teh same age range and populations.  

 

I wouldn't deny that, but the argument is the power dynamic.  There is not a problem universally of women abusing or demeaning men in a way that affects their lives.

 

I agree with happi duck, we don't have to be called those names to be affected by it.  The men who are out there abusing women and demeaning them *started* somewhere.

 

I personally was never called anything bad.  I lived in a supportive home with an emotionally absent but decent father. I was a nerd at school and hung out with the nerd group.   I still remember being shocked the first time I stayed the night at my best friend's house.  Her stepfather told her "take off that shirt, you look like a whore".  She was 11, and an early bloomer with a double D chest.  She was TORTURED throughout middle school especially because of her chest.  The things that were said to her were things *I* never heard spoken to me, but they were so hurtful and horrible....  That was in the 80s.

 

So yes, that is out there and it is real, even if you have never experienced it.  It is out there by stepdads and by schoolboys and by countless others.  And yes, every other boy/man who stands by and doesn't stop it or think "it's just boys" because to *them* it's nothing, is contributing to the others for whom it is *not* nothing but a way of thinking that will affect how they treat women the rest of their lives.

Edited December 16, 2015 by goldberry

[Joker]

I watched it but it's not something I grew up with. I didn't hear a lot of those comments and definitely never at home by my dad or brothers. I did drink quite a bit in high school but we all looked out for one another. I remember guys telling me I had enough and found a sober girl to drive me home. 

 

Oldest dd says in her high school the girls are just as bad as the boys and she has many she avoids because of it. Youngest says she doesn't hear this kind of stuff in her middle school. It could be going on around her but just not in her circle of friends. 

 

FTR, I was abused as a child by someone close to our family but he was known as a 'great guy' and never used that language or told crude jokes either. 

[JustEm]

I always suspected that I received more comments, either directly or within earshot, because I was naturally hourglass-shaped. I developed quite early and *everybody* noticed. Not sure if that's true, but it's how I felt. I'd love to know if that us generally how this works.

I developed early as well and the only people who ever gave me a hard time about it were the girls. They were jealous and started to view any attention i got from boys to be because i had boobs. They even thought I was flaunting myself around trying to get attention. In reality they were jerks that I refused to associate with so that left just boys to be friends with. The boys treated me the same as usual.

[8circles]

I think the point of the video is that sexual "joking" among ordinary men/boys makes it culturally easier for some men to choose sexual assault or spousal abuse.

 

I don't really see how that makes logical sense.

 

To me it seems more likely that the "jokes" reflect an awareness of the existing culture around gender, consent, and assault.

 

I think it's a correlation/causation error that 'a leads to b'. In this case I think that a and b have the same cause (normalized covert inequality and dehumanized views of women) not that verbal expressions of it pave the way for crimes.

 

However, social effects are usually accomplished through words and relational actions, and the shifted mindset and verbal advocacy that the woman asks of her "daddy" probably will help de-normalize the views themselves -- therefore possibly having the effect she hopes for.

 

I don't think stopping boys from "joking" makes them less likely to victimize women, but, eventually, a new attitude towards women may develop after the silence of the "jokes" has gone on long enough that the progressive values seem normal to the next crop of boys (who would have to be stopped from joking because they-themselves hold values that would find those jokes distasteful).

 

(I also don't have any concept that these insults are common. The worst of my experience was "bitch" -- meaning rude, unpleasant, bossy, not something sexual, and if sexual or boyfriend-related, perhaps "slut". My kids are in elementary school, where they are getting firm lessons in anti-bullying, that they seem to be buying. There isn't any name calling that I'm aware of.)

I want to respond but the schoolday has begun.  I'll come back.

 

Thanks for the discussion.

[Bluegoat]

I wouldn't deny that, but the argument is the power dynamic.  There is not a problem universally of women abusing or demeaning men in a way that affects their lives.

 

I agree with happi duck, we don't have to be called those names to be affected by it.  The men who are out there abusing women and demeaning them *started* somewhere.

 

I personally was never called anything bad.  I lived in a supportive home with an emotionally absent but decent father. I was a nerd at school and hung out with the nerd group.   I still remember being shocked the first time I stayed the night at my best friend's house.  Her stepfather told her "take off that shirt, you look like a whore".  She was 11, and an early bloomer with a double D chest.  She was TORTURED throughout middle school especially because of her chest.  The things that were said to her were things *I* never heard spoken to me, but they were so hurtful and horrible....  That was in the 80s.

 

So yes, that is out there and it is real, even if you have never experienced it.  It is out there by stepdads and by schoolboys and by countless others.  And yes, every other boy/man who stands by and doesn't stop it or think "it's just boys" because to *them* it's nothing, is contributing to the others for whom it is *not* nothing but a way of thinking that will affect how they treat women the rest of their lives.

 

I think this is less true than many people realize - abuse of men by women isn't as uncommon as many think, even physical abuse - about 40% of domestic abuse victims are men.  The sexual assault rate against men is a lot higher than many realize as well.

[8circles]

I developed early as well and the only people who ever gave me a hard time about it were the girls. They were jealous and started to view any attention i got from boys to be because i had boobs. They even thought I was flaunting myself around trying to get attention. In reality they were jerks that I refused to associate with so that left just boys to be friends with. The boys treated me the same as usual.

 

Well, I can't say you had it any easier, that sounds awful as well.  I got some of that starting in highschool, but not before then.

 

Oh, the boys were horrid.  My bra was snapped weekly if not daily, starting in 5th grade.  I was "too sensitive".  There was a boy on the bus who tried to jump out & kiss me as I walked by.  I was supposed to feel flattered that he liked me.

 

This was in a very diverse university town in the late 70's, early 80's.  It continued through highschool and I graduated in the early 90's.

[Bluegoat]

Interesting.  That was not my experience at all, so I haven't seen that at any age.  I do think that if this is the case, then I support stopping both directions of derogatory "joking".

 

On second thought,  I did experience this a couple girls in college.  They "lived" with the guy in the room next to me & had regular orgies.  It was an experience.

I think a certain amount of sexual talk in single sex groups is probably developmentally normal, and even fine.   Once people are adults it tends to be more socially acceptable kind of talk, but you still see people discussing attractive members of the opposite sex.  With kids, it can just be that anything sexual and transgressive is new and exciting and even a little gross.

 

But I do think adults should try and teach about this in terms of respect for others.

 

But in general I would say that my experience is that when the social norms for women allow it, they behave much the same way men do.

[goldberry]

I think this is less true than many people realize - abuse of men by women isn't as uncommon as many think, even physical abuse - about 40% of domestic abuse victims are men.  The sexual assault rate against men is a lot higher than many realize as well.

 

I'm sure this is true.  And I agree, those kinds of comments should not be happening among women either.  But the discussion is about those comments and jokes by men and the fact that other men should realize that is not "normal" or "just fun" but can have an effect on the societal attitude toward women.  It's not something to discount because "women do it too".

 

ETA that reminds me of "black people make racist comments too!"

Edited December 16, 2015 by goldberry

[goldberry]

Well, I can't say you had it any easier, that sounds awful as well.  I got some of that starting in highschool, but not before then.

 

Oh, the boys were horrid.  My bra was snapped weekly if not daily, starting in 5th grade.  I was "too sensitive".  There was a boy on the bus who tried to jump out & kiss me as I walked by.  I was supposed to feel flattered that he liked me.

 

This was in a very diverse university town in the late 70's, early 80's.  It continued through highschool and I graduated in the early 90's.

 

Not "liking" to like, but because your experience mirrors that of my early blooming best friend.

[Bluegoat]

I'm sure this is true.  And I agree, those kinds of comments should not be happening among women either.  But the discussion is about those comments and jokes by men and the fact that other men should realize that is not "normal" or "just fun" but can have an effect on the societal attitude toward women.  It's not something to discount because "women do it too".

 

ETA that reminds me of "black people make racist comments too!"

 

I don't think its a matter of discounting it.  But if we think its one kind of thing, and really it is another, we're apt to make mistakes about what causes it, or how to fix it, or let certain issues (like domentic violence against men) slide.

 

THere are people who work in domestic violence who have fought against having facilities or programs for male victims, because they see it as taking resources away from what is fundamentally an injustice to women.

 

There are people who resits or trivialize commonts or behaviors of young women, because they see the issue as one caused by patriarchy, and threfor it cannot be the same, or similar, or important in teh same way.  Sometimes they resist even admitting these things happen because they would tend to suggest that maybe it isn't something that stems directly from patriarchy.

 

If we want to understand how these kinds of interactions work, if we assume at the beginning that they are fundamentally different for men and women (or for that matter in homosexual contexts) the data collected will tend to skew that way. 

 

ETA - what, for instance, if the video had instead shown groups of young men and women having conversations that demeaned or objectified the opposite sex?  Would we have a different impression?

Edited December 16, 2015 by Bluegoat

[8circles]

 

But in general I would say that my experience is that when the social norms for women allow it, they behave much the same way men do.

 

I don't think the video or any comments have indicated that women are in any way superior to men in this way.  Just that it probably it isn't quite *as common* as men doing it to women.  I think it has been going on for much longer, is more ingrained as "normal" and goes along with the power dynamic.  Not that it doesn't happen by women against men as well, I just don't think it's as pervasive.  But you are right that it isn't any better, if that's your point.

[Bluegoat]

I wonder how much of the negative experience of early bloomers is because their peers are less socially competant?  I was kind of middle of the road, maybe slightly early because I was a yearbehind in school.  But if I think of the experience of my friends who got their periods at 10 and 15 respectivly, they were very different.  Ten year olds just aren't as mature, either in teh way they deal with changes themselves, or teh way their friends behave about it.

[maize]

In my middle school experience, the verbal assault all came from the girls.

 

Not the boys.

[Bluegoat]

In my middle school experience, the verbal assault all came from the girls.

 

Not the boys.

 

I found this true - I wouldn't call it assault precisely, but catty comments, stress about development and such.

 

The boys seemed to stay well out of it.

[happi duck]

The video and this discussion is about how accepted male attitudes affect behavior towards women.

 

I don't think it's fine for women to do the same thing. However, I do sort of see the similar behavior stemming, at least in some cases, from women emulating men because, imo, there is still a distinct power advantage for men.

[JustEm]

Well, I can't say you had it any easier, that sounds awful as well. I got some of that starting in highschool, but not before then.

 

Oh, the boys were horrid. My bra was snapped weekly if not daily, starting in 5th grade. I was "too sensitive". There was a boy on the bus who tried to jump out & kiss me as I walked by. I was supposed to feel flattered that he liked me.

 

This was in a very diverse university town in the late 70's, early 80's. It continued through highschool and I graduated in the early 90's.

Mine was all in the late 90's. I graduated highschool in 2004. By the time I was in highschool they realized their insults didn't effect me and moved on to their next victim. Then they learned I wouldn't let them do that to someone else either and just stopped altogether at school. No idea if it continued with girls outside of school, probably did.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I grew up in a Midwestern University town (late 80's early 90's) that was extremely diverse , so maybe that helps explain why I never experienced anything like that.  Also my H.S. was fairly large 400-500 per graduating class (there were 3 H.S. in the county) but everyone knew everyone else.  I couldn't imagine my guy friends calling any girl those names, no one would have let him get away with it.  There might have been some football players who acted like that but they liked playing football and the coach would have kicked them off the team if he'd heard anything like that (he suspended my uncle for half a season because he got into a fight with his girlfriend and used the "b" word.)  Maybe my school was unique?  Even most the girls were, if not nice, then not overly mean.  Jr. High was a nightmare but it was the girls calling each other names not the boys.  

 

Have things changed so much in the past 20 years?  

 

 

[umsami]

I think this is less true than many people realize - abuse of men by women isn't as uncommon as many think, even physical abuse - about 40% of domestic abuse victims are men.  The sexual assault rate against men is a lot higher than many realize as well.

 

As somebody who works in DV, I take issue with your statistics.  The only groups that tout a 40% rate for men are the men's right groups (which are generally anti-women and think that women's DV is basically made-up to negatively impact men.)

 

More accepted stats put it at 1 in 4 men.... and those rates are higher in same sex relationships.  

 Four women are killed each and every day in the US by their intimate partners.  When men are killed in domestic violence situations, it is almost always a suicide (after they murder their spouse and possibly others) or in cases of self defense, after years of abuse. 

 

"The study found that nationwide, 94 percent of women killed by men were murdered by someone they knew. Of the victims who knew their offenders, 62 percent were wives or other intimate acquaintances of their killers."

[Bluegoat]

As somebody who works in DV, I take issue with your statistics.  The only groups that tout a 40% rate for men are the men's right groups (which are generally anti-women and think that women's DV is basically made-up to negatively impact men.)

 

More accepted stats put it at 1 in 4 men.... and those rates are higher in same sex relationships.  

 Four women are killed each and every day in the US by their intimate partners.  When men are killed in domestic violence situations, it is almost always a suicide (after they murder their spouse and possibly others) or in cases of self defense, after years of abuse. 

 

"The study found that nationwide, 94 percent of women killed by men were murdered by someone they knew. Of the victims who knew their offenders, 62 percent were wives or other intimate acquaintances of their killers."

 

I wouldn't immediatly discount stats from men's rights groups any more than I would from women's rights groups.  Especially given that it is hard to make those estimations at all.  And there are quite a few studies on violence in relationships that suggests that it is a lot more complex, and even from a gender perspective, than most people believe.  (Which isn't difficult as many people seem to think it barely exists at all.)

 

I don't think its surprising that more women are killed.  Men on average are bigger and stronger and perhaps hormones play a role too. Serious male on male violence is also more common than female on female violence.   

 

But I'm not sure that really matters in terms of whether inter-sexual aggression or objectification is mainly a human problem or a male culture problem, or some sort of patriarchy problem.  Or at least, it might matter, but there is no way to know until those things have been teased apart.

[8circles]

 

But I'm not sure that really matters in terms of whether inter-sexual aggression or objectification is mainly a human problem or a male culture problem, or some sort of patriarchy problem.  Or at least, it might matter, but there is no way to know until those things have been teased apart.

 

Oh, I absolutely believe this is a human problem.  It isn't part of male-culture, it's perpetuated by both males and females alike.  I know lots of women who think this kind of female objectification is attractive.  The mind boggles.

[mommaduck]

I just saw it. I was not called a whore, but I was called a b*tch. I had a guy act out sex and grunt all because another guy had kissed me (implying to our entire gym class that we had done more). My daughter has been called a whore, because she told a guy she wasn't interested in dating anyone,but she was fine with just being friends. So he called her a whore to make her feel like crap for turning him down. How many girls are raped and molested, called a whore, and fall into bad life patterns because they eventually stay to believe what they are told and feel they deserved how they were treated?