Does anyone know about Delayed Phase Sleep Disorder?

[unsinkable]

One of my kids has trouble sleeping and this sounds like him. He can't fall asleep until very early morning (3 am and on) no matter what time he wakes up.

 

But if he doesn't have to get up, he sleeps OK until late morning. This seems to be his natural cycle.

 

Unfortunately, his school (and sometimes work) schedule is at odds with this.

 

Anyone else deal with this? Any advice?

[klmama]

That's definitely what it sounds like.

 

Does he have a break from school and work coming up?  One thing that's recommended is to actually stay up even longer so that the sleep cycle shifts around the clock until it's normal.  It can take a week or so.

 

Does he exercise daily?  A.m. exercise with bright light is best for resetting the sleep clock.  At this time of year, a light box can be helpful for that.  

 

Does he use melatonin or tryptophan to help him sleep?  Sometimes it helps to take some earlier in the evening, then more at bedtime. 

[unsinkable]

That's definitely what it sounds like.

 

Does he have a break from school and work coming up? One thing that's recommended is to actually stay up even longer so that the sleep cycle shifts around the clock until it's normal. It can take a week or so.

 

Does he exercise daily? A.m. exercise with bright light is best for resetting the sleep clock. At this time of year, a light box can be helpful for that.

 

Does he use melatonin or tryptophan to help him sleep? Sometimes it helps to take some earlier in the evening, then more at bedtime.

School will end but not work but I'll suggest that to him.

 

He's had some stages in his life where he exercised daily but not now. His schedule is pretty inconsistent.

 

He's tried melatonin and diphenhydramine but he thinks it makes things worse.

 

I will suggest all the other stuff.

 

Thank you!

[ktgrok]

Camping for a week is supposed to help, but with no screens/artificial light. 

[JumpyTheFrog]

I have this book: http://www.amazon.com/Chronotherapy-Resetting-Inner-Alertness-Quality/dp/1583334726/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449630826&sr=1-4&keywords=chronobiology

[Only me]

That is part of my 20 year old daughter's problem. She also wakes up several times even once she falls asleep. Unfortunately we have tried everything including moving her wake time forward every day, going to bed and waking up at the same time every day and even a form of sleep deprivation. The doctor had her stay up pretty much all night. I think it was 5 am and then the next day she could go to sleep 1/2 hour earlier. Unfortunate none of this worked. I'm sorry. I know it is miserable. She is in college now and luckily doesn't have super early classes but she plays hockey and when she has early games and has to be at the rink by 6:30 am she literally only gets 2-3 hours of sleep.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Midwest mom of 3

[Pronghorn]

I suggest you try to work with his exposure to light in the evening hours. The blue component of light tends to control sleep-related hormones. So, you need to reduce exposure to full-spectrum light and blue light in the two hours before bedtime. That way his body will manufacture the sleep hormone melatonin naturally. You can get special sunglasses that filter out the blue light. I am wearing a pair right now! You can get special amber light bulbs and nightlights. One source is lowbluelights.com. (I have no affiliation, but their products solved my insomnia.) A sleep mask is also helpful. I may sound flaky, but these products really did change my life and allow me to sleep normally after eight or so years of relying on sleeping pills.

[Mergath]

Huh, I think I have that. My normal schedule is to go to sleep at two or three and sleep until later in the morning. If I try to go to bed earlier, I lay there awake forever, and if I have to get up early I'm a zombie all day. Dd is the same way, though she doesn't stay up as late as I do. I didn't realize it was an actual disorder. 

 

The only way I can get up early is if I do biphasic sleep, and I have to fall asleep really, super early. Like eight o'clock. It's like I have a tiny window at eight to go to sleep, and if I miss it I'm up until three no matter what. If I fall asleep at eight, I'll sleep until midnight, get up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for three or four more hours.

 

I don't know how to fix it. I've been like this since I was a teen. I suppose from an evolutionary perspective it was handy to have people who were up most of the night to watch for predators or whatever.

[Catwoman]

Huh, I think I have that. My normal schedule is to go to sleep at two or three and sleep until later in the morning. If I try to go to bed earlier, I lay there awake forever, and if I have to get up early I'm a zombie all day. Dd is the same way, though she doesn't stay up as late as I do. I didn't realize it was an actual disorder.

 

The only way I can get up early is if I do biphasic sleep, and I have to fall asleep really, super early. Like eight o'clock. It's like I have a tiny window at eight to go to sleep, and if I miss it I'm up until three no matter what. If I fall asleep at eight, I'll sleep until midnight, get up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for three or four more hours.

 

I don't know how to fix it. I've been like this since I was a teen. I suppose from an evolutionary perspective it was handy to have people who were up most of the night to watch for predators or whatever.

Same here. My ds15 is pretty much the same. I don't think either of us could do the biphasic sleep thing, though.

 

I didn't know it was a disorder, either. I always just said we were night owls. ;)

 

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread, because it would be nice to start falling asleep at a more "normal" hour. :)

Edited December 9, 2015 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

I suggest you try to work with his exposure to light in the evening hours. The blue component of light tends to control sleep-related hormones. So, you need to reduce exposure to full-spectrum light and blue light in the two hours before bedtime. That way his body will manufacture the sleep hormone melatonin naturally. You can get special sunglasses that filter out the blue light. I am wearing a pair right now! You can get special amber light bulbs and nightlights. One source is lowbluelights.com. (I have no affiliation, but their products solved my insomnia.) A sleep mask is also helpful. I may sound flaky, but these products really did change my life and allow me to sleep normally after eight or so years of relying on sleeping pills.

You don't sound flaky to me! Your ideas are very interesting.

[Mergath]

Same here. My ds15 is pretty much the same. I don't think either of us could do the biphasic sleep thing, though.

 

I didn't know it was a disorder, either. I always just said we were night owls. ;)

 

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread, because it would be nice to start falling asleep at a more "normal" hour. :)

 

Me too. I told dh earlier it's apparently an actual disorder, that he can no longer discriminate against this terrible illness that requires me and dd to sleep until eleven every morning, and that I will henceforth require all possible accommodations for it. He was not amused.  :lol:

 

In all seriousness though, I'd have some real issues functioning if I wasn't a stay-at-home homeschooling mom. When I go back to work someday it's going to be the night shift for me.

[rdj2027]

One of my sons deals with it.  We had numerous sleep studies done when he was younger, in the end the advice was to leave him be.  This year he is attending PS and adjusts his day around his sleep schedule.  He comes home from school around 2:30, eats, relaxes a bit and goes to bed around 3:30 to 4:00., then gets up around 1:00 a.m., does his homework, eats and gets ready for school.  It is the only way for him to have uninterrupted sleep times. That said, his rhythm does not change so when we move across time zones, the actual times during which he sleeps do.  

[StephanieZ]

ahonestly, I think I have this, and so did my dad.

 

What helps me is sleep medicine. I use Melatonin + Benadryl an hour before sleep time. Try it. Start with just melatonin, maybe 3 mg, but on a night when it isn't crucial he be sharp in the morning in case it's a high dose for him. Go down to 2, then 1, if he's still too sleepy in the morning. (I started at 5 mg and am down to 2.) If melatonin alone doesn't cut it, I'd say add benadryl, but consult a DR. I'd rather not be on Benadryl everynight if I could help it. 

[Guest]

My 17 yr old has this for sure! I was just wondering what to do about and the Hive comes to my rescue yet again!

I am going to have him try some of these suggestions. We tried sleep masks, melatonin, and Benadryl when he was smaller but they did not help him one bit.

For the low blue lights- does that mean no screens? He already wears glasses so I'm not sure the sunglasses would be comfortable.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited December 10, 2015 by Paradox

[MaeFlowers]

I have been reading about this lately, too. I think ds and I both have this. He really, really struggles and it actually upsets him. Someone is giving us a light that they have so I looking forward to trying it out.

[redsquirrel]

This is my life. 

 

The whole 'no artificial light' thing does help me, but I HATE it. And it's not practical. I'd have to give up ALL screens for the rest of my life, lol.

 

DS1 has amber glasses we bought off of Amazon for about 8$.  He uses them starting at 6pm. He says they help him a great deal, but they look super silly.  I tried them as well and they didn't do a thing for me. At least one study finds they work better for younger people than older people. DS1 feels like it makes a difference, so he uses them when practical.  It isn't practical at ballet rehearsals that run to 9pm, lol. 

 

I use melotonin, a horse dose tbh, and valerian. I also take magnesium citrate (natural calm) at night. I wear a very good sleep mask that I got off amazon. I use ear plugs on and off. They don't block out my alarm FWIW. I thought they would, but they don't.  I set an alarm for the same time every damn morning. That does seem to help. I don't always get up but I do set it.  I am a ninja with the snooze button. Caffeine or no caffeine makes no difference, but I do not drink it after 2pm or so, just in case.  I don't let myself read or watch anything to exciting after 9pm.  I knit, read STUPID things on sites like Buzzfeed, read cookbooks etc. Nothing too engaging. It makes a difference. If I am engaged I can shake off the effects of melotonin etc like it was nothing.

 

In a perfect world I would live in a house only lit by candles in the evening until I fell asleep. That actually does the trick.  But, not going to happen.

 

Make sure he knows all the standard sleep stuff, like not reading in bed, not doing homework in bed, keeping a consistent bedtime and wake up time (with flexibility for those times when he hasn't had any sleep b/c it happens). If he is in bed for more than 15 mins he should get out of bed, even a chair in his own room, and read or do something else until he feels like sleeping. Bed should only be associated with sleep. It does help. Don't lie in bed not sleeping, it only reinforces the problem.

 

Some people do regularly cycle around, stay awake until they hit an easier bedtime, but I just can't do that. If I were the only person who had to deal with me, I could. But at this time I have to work around other people's schedules.

 

But, no matter what, this is going to be something he is always going to have to 'tend'. It will always be work and something he has to deal with every day.

 

I feel like things have eased up for me in the last year with being super, super regular in my habits and taking the supplements. I don't like it one bit, but I haven't had what I call a 'late shift' in a while. My sleep time is holding steady at 1am-1:30, with only the occasional 3am sleep time.  It isn't slowly shifting later and later. I can feel it trying, but I am holding it at bay..so far.  I really can't deal with a 2am sleep time.

 

 

[foxbridgeacademy]

Huh, I think I have that. My normal schedule is to go to sleep at two or three and sleep until later in the morning. If I try to go to bed earlier, I lay there awake forever, and if I have to get up early I'm a zombie all day. Dd is the same way, though she doesn't stay up as late as I do. I didn't realize it was an actual disorder. 

 

The only way I can get up early is if I do biphasic sleep, and I have to fall asleep really, super early. Like eight o'clock. It's like I have a tiny window at eight to go to sleep, and if I miss it I'm up until three no matter what. If I fall asleep at eight, I'll sleep until midnight, get up for an hour or two, and then go back to sleep for three or four more hours.

 

I don't know how to fix it. I've been like this since I was a teen. I suppose from an evolutionary perspective it was handy to have people who were up most of the night to watch for predators or whatever.

What really sucks is when you fall asleep just fine then 20 minutes later someone calls or a kid wants you for something.  I could be up until 8 or 9 the next morning on those 20 minutes of sleep.

 

I've had trouble for years(probably since I was 11) with insomnia and only recently, due to new meds for another condition, have I even been able to do the biphasic sleep thing.  It's helped tremendously.  

[Tap]

DD17 does.  

 

When she was in about 5th grade, it was her last year of home schooling. We came up with the oddest schedule, but it worked so good for her.  I worked a 2pm to 8pm shift at work.  I would come home and we would start home school at 9pm.  I would work with her until midnight and then she would do her independent work until she was done. She would go to sleep about 3-4am.  Then she would get up in the early afternoon, just before her neighborhood friends would get home.  She would play and have a 'ps kid afterschool-afternoon' (her morning), and then we would do our school again late at night.   It was also so nice for me, because the 3 hours of homeschooling were really productive since there weren't phones ringing or errands pulling us away.  We are both hyper-focused at that time of day.

 

She can't do that in public high school, but she has found one of the best solutions for her this year in is to not have a first period class.  She goes to school about 9am in stead of 8am and it really helps her quite a bit.  She can stay up well past midnight and still get 6 hours of sleep.  That minimum seems to keep her functioning.  She is in public school classes except for math.  She home schools math, so on her schedule it says her 1st period class is math.  She just happens to do it at midnight most of the time. LOL

Edited December 10, 2015 by Tap