Carrie12345 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 No, but it totally influences how other people treat her. It's just like the tall 4yo who gets the stink eye for age appropriate behavior. 12 is not 17. My dd is not ready to be chatted up. The dudes who would do the chatting would probably be embarrassed if they realized she was in middle school. That's why giving appropriate visual clues to your actual age is very important. Make up is one of those clues. I'm not about to get my 13yo a breast reduction, so I teach her how to handle herself politely to others and respectful of herself. It's really not difficult, and easily applicable to all situations, regardless of choice or biology. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'm not into patriarchy or purity balls but I sincerely doubt they mean anything sexual in the Dad and Jesus boyfriend thing. I personally dislike hyperbole going eiher way. I think they need to express this in different words. If you use the word "boyfriend" to describe your daddy, you shouldn't be shocked when people flip out. It brings to mind all sorts of unsavory images. If they just said that they thought it was unwise for teenagers to date and that they preferred that they wait until they were adults, they wouldn't get this reaction. Of course, they'd probably get no reaction at all and they wouldn't get interviewed for a tv show....so I guess that wouldn't work for them either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Earlier this week I read about research comparing attitudes of those who watched SVU to those who watch CSI and NCIS (since they're all crime procedural dramas). They found that people who watched SVU were more likely to sympathize with victims and recognize a victim's right to refuse s*xual contact, people who watched CSI were more likely to think the victim deserved it, and people who watched NCIS did not have a change in their views. They theorized that SVU encouraged a more positive view of victims, because it portrays complex situations sympathetically. The article also pointed out that SVU typically shows victims interacting with sympathetic police officers and getting justice through the legal system. They theorized that the reason CSI watchers were more likely to think the victim deserved it was because CSI tends to show stereotypical assault situations where the victim's poor choices lead to the assault: walking down a dark alley alone or leaving a window open at night. They theorized that NCIS didn't affect views about s*xual assault, because they rarely depict it on the show. It was an interesting read. The article about the research was reprinted in my local paper, but I'll try to find a link. And what if I watch them all? Does that just make me a mixed up mess? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I'm not 100% certain, though. Hyperbole isn't mean to be taken literally; but with the more extreme groups, it is literal to them. The girls may not get it, but I think some of the dad's are fully believing they are the boyfriends. There have been quite a few to write about emotional incest and the patriarchy movement. Having seen it first hand with some of my closest friends, I may use some exaggeration and sarcasm, but it's to express my disdain. I am surrounded by people (of all different political and religious persuasions) who use disdainful hyperbole as a debating technique. I have a kneejerk reaction against it, I guess. I personally do not think it provides anything useful to a discussion. I don't think that patriarchal groups have proper boundaries set for the right things. So yes, I agree that emotional incest can and does happen. I think the goal of at least some patriarchal groups is to signal a dependence on Dad and Jesus as their protector and emotional rock, in those years before marriage. As with most twisted thinking, I think there are grains of truth underneath it all. I do think there have been studies (too much on my plate right now to do a search) that girls esp. who have a good (not creepy) relationship with their dads are more confident and less likely to engage in premarital sex. Again - you need boundaries and you need the counterbalance of girls being able to rely on themselves and not just on a man as well. And you might need other things too but I just glanced at the clock and I need to post and run. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I in no way meant to suggest by emphasizing "daddy is her boyfriend" that it was in any way sexual in nature. However, I think it's just simply inappropriate terminology and a very unhealthy relationship. The word boyfriend IS meant to describe a romantic relationship. Dads and daughters already have a special relationship (or at least some do) that doesn't need the word "boyfriend". I just think it's unhealthy to put a father in that place in his daughter's life. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Ivy Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I am surrounded by people (of all different political and religious persuasions) who use disdainful hyperbole as a debating technique. I have a kneejerk reaction against it, I guess. I personally do not think it provides anything useful to a discussion. I don't think that patriarchal groups have proper boundaries set for the right things. So yes, I agree that emotional incest can and does happen. I think the goal of at least some patriarchal groups is to signal a dependence on Dad and Jesus as their protector and emotional rock, in those years before marriage. As with most twisted thinking, I think there are grains of truth underneath it all. I do think there have been studies (too much on my plate right now to do a search) that girls esp. who have a good (not creepy) relationship with their dads are more confident and less likely to engage in premarital sex. Again - you need boundaries and you need the counterbalance of girls being able to rely on themselves and not just on a man as well. And you might need other things too but I just glanced at the clock and I need to post and run. Just like you have knee-jerk reactions to the disdainful hyperbole, I have knee jerk reactions with regards to fundamentalism/legalism/patriarchy. Too many emotional scars, I guess. :) So....taking my emotion out of the equation, I do think that you are right with regards to the highlighted. I think that is probably where the base ideology began, but unfortunately, like some are prone to do, it was taken to an extreme. And yes, you definitely need boundaries and the counterbalance. This is probably my biggest worry in raising my daughter - I don't want her growing up as my church taught, but I also don't want her being a wanton hussy. lol I've yet to find the happy medium I desire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 My daughter may or may not be named after the lead character in SVU. Truthfully I love the show. I deal with those topics every day professionally(I work in an area with a large amount of assaults, especially against children) and in my extended family. In the real world justice is rarely served. I like watching something where the perpetrator is (almost always) brought to justice. that's awesome! Love the show as well, although haven't watched much since my tv crush left the show. Detective Stabler was just the best. Until he got too angsty/angry...towards the end. I've watched about 1 or 2 seasons past that, but that's it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 And what if I watch them all? Does that just make me a mixed up mess? I think it makes you an expert on dramatic crime procedurals. You can compare and contrast what SVU is doing right and what CSI is doing wrong for the rest of us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I in no way meant to suggest by emphasizing "daddy is her boyfriend" that it was in any way sexual in nature. However, I think it's just simply inappropriate terminology and a very unhealthy relationship. The word boyfriend IS meant to describe a romantic relationship. Dads and daughters already have a special relationship (or at least some do) that doesn't need the word "boyfriend". I just think it's unhealthy to put a father in that place in his daughter's life. I agree. The problem with the word "boyfriend" is that it does denote a romantic and/or sexual relationship. Isn't that why girls from these patriarchy groups aren't allowed to "date" or have "boyfriends" in real life? Those are loaded words that denote a romantic/sexual relationship, so they have replaced them with words like "courtship". How do you tell these girls that "boyfriends" are bad, but then turn around and say, "Daddy is your boyfriend," without it connoting something slightly off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I think it makes you an expert on dramatic crime procedurals. You can compare and contrast what SVU is doing right and what CSI is doing wrong for the rest of us. The thing is, they approach it from a different angle. SVU approaches it from the legal side and doesn't show nearly as much of the actual crime. CSI approaches it more from the gathering evidence and lab side, which flashes back more to the crime scene and how it was done. I don't think either is right or wrong, unless you are talking about CSI Miami and then, well, lets just say that the first time I saw it I thought it was a spoof on the main CSI show. Crossing Jordan was a show I really liked. It was all in the Medical Examiner's office. That show ended too soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I assume this poster has naturally black eyelashes. Nobody who has to suffer the indignity of invisible (blonde/white) eyelashes would ever question the purpose of mascara. It's to make your dang eyelashes show up. My 11-yr-old started wearing mascara about 6 months ago. She was feeling self-conscious about the invisible eyelashes. I dare anyone to slut-shame her. Hear! Hear! (Insert beer raising emoji since I'm on my tablet) Ditto to everything you said right down to our daughters being the same age when they started wearing mascara. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Crossing Jordan was a show I really liked. It was all in the Medical Examiner's office. That show ended too soon. Oh, that was one of my favs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I guess I'm just not a fan. Real life is crappy enough, why make "entertainment" out of the crappy parts? Kind of agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 I've been putting my daughters in makeup for special occasions, photos and (last summer) because one was on a 'worship team' for a Christian kids' day camp (VBS). I think it enhances features. My 10yo is really really lovely in mascara and freckles. My 7yo is cute too. Neither of them look grown up or sexy. (Also: purity culture is gross. Topic covered.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Excuse me???? What does wearing makeup have to do with (premarital) sex??? This is a very damaging assumption and only one step away from blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt because, clearly, she was asking for it. Agree This is exactly what leads to slut shaming and victim blaming. I'm still shaking my head. Just wow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I agree. The problem with the word "boyfriend" is that it does denote a romantic and/or sexual relationship. Isn't that why girls from these patriarchy groups aren't allowed to "date" or have "boyfriends" in real life? Those are loaded words that denote a romantic/sexual relationship, so they have replaced them with words like "courtship". How do you tell these girls that "boyfriends" are bad, but then turn around and say, "Daddy is your boyfriend," without it connoting something slightly off? I've never been in a group that has said anything even remotely like this or it is possible that I am being too generous towards them. I surmise, that at least initially, the thought might have been "You don't need no stinkin' boyfriend. 'Cause Daddy is your boyfriend!" I agree with you that when you take that thinking to it's logical end that it becomes (and has become) something that promotes an unhealthy dynamic instead of a healthy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've never been in a group that has said anything even remotely like this or it is possible that I am being too generous towards them. I surmise, that at least initially, the thought might have been "You don't need no stinkin' boyfriend. 'Cause Daddy is your boyfriend!" I agree with you that when you take that thinking to it's logical end that it becomes (and has become) something that promotes an unhealthy dynamic instead of a healthy one. Southern Ivy posted a video where this phrase was used in a very quickly way. It's on page 1 of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocassie Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 My daughter may or may not be named after the lead character in SVU. Truthfully I love the show. I deal with those topics every day professionally(I work in an area with a large amount of assaults, especially against children) and in my extended family. In the real world justice is rarely served. I like watching something where the perpetrator is (almost always) brought to justice. Oh yes! My DH finds it disturbing that I watch this show. However, in the majority of the shows, the perpetrator gets caught and punished. My own real life, justice wasn't served so it gives me peace that justice has been served even if fictionally. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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