Self taught violin?

[displace]

Is violin an instrument I can pick up and self teach with a book or videos? After doing this a little with guitar to teach DS, I'm reminded that I always wanted to play violin and wonder if I could teach myself effectively. If it's too hard technique wise I won't bother.

[Mama Geek]

How much music do you already know?  Dd and I are both taking lessons, I can't tell by sound when my fingers aren't in the right position.  I just don't have the ear for it although from what I have been told over time I can still develop it.  I have tape where the notes are, but can't always look there as I have to look at the music especially until I have a song memorized.  There are a couple of training aids that are really useful, a bow buddy and a bow right that have really helped both of us.  You might consider getting a few lessons to get you started on the correct way to hold both the violin and the bow.  I would also expect that it would depend on how much you want to learn.  Our teacher's kids go through lessons with top violinists up until they go to college.

 

I could not do it by myself, but I don't have a strong background in music and I had never played a string instrument.  Maybe some others will chime in as well.

[catz]

My dd and I play violin. She started at 4 and is 11 now. I played 7 years growing up and practice daily with dd now. My ds plays guitar and I've self taught some guitar. I think violin is much harder to self teach, at least while you are working on set up. It is really easy to start with bad habits like poor bow hold that will severely limit how far you can go. That said, it depends what your goals are. With violin, I think it would be better to take lessons for a year, then self teach. I do not feel that way about guitar at all.

 

ETA. The ear thing is interesting. Both my kids started Suzuki young and have really good ears. I started suzuki young too and can hear wrong notes. My suzuki pianist has perfect pitch. A good teacher will have you actively listening in lesson and help,your ear develop. I think violin is an instrument where your ear matters. I've always wondered how much an adult ear could develop vs a child's.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It would be difficult.  There are some decent on-line vidoes, etc.  Fiddler man has a lot of good stuff.  You-tube.

 

But not impossible.  My great grandfather taught himself the violin.

 

 

[laundrycrisis]

It's difficult to make a violin sound the way you want it to sound.  I don't get my own lessons anymore - I did for a year.  But now I attend the lessons for our two kids and supervise their practices, so I am still learning through their lessons.  Still, it would be a big help if the teacher was correcting my form and technique once a week.  My view of five years of violin lessons has been that little things are corrected over and over again, and techniques are added as the student is ready.  Those little things are how to make the violin sound nice.  Even if you only have a real life lesson once a month or so, especially in the beginning, it would help you learn to do things correctly.   

[Pegs]

I think that if you're fairly confident that you have the discipline to form good habits early on, go for it! You might want to book a few lessons a couple of months apart, and practice your technical work diligently in between. You could end up with a fabulous foundation if you do it well.

 

My primary instrument is 'cello, and I've self-taught other strings. After learning dummy strummy guitar on my own then ending up frustrated by my poor technical skills, I was very careful not to make the same mistake for other instruments (I'm not a terrible guitarist, but I'd need lessons to correct my technique before going much further).

[Kathleen.]

If you've always wanted to try it then why not try it. Use an easy book like Essential Elements and get a tuner where you just press a button and it let's you know the note you're playing. The violin is not a difficult instrument to play, but, like any instrument, if you don't practice and use good techniques it will show. Taking a class obviously would be helpful, but I don't think it's an absolute. I would love to take classes, but I don't have the best schedule, so teaching on my own let's me practice when I want to every day. I always make sure to ask questions in music stores if I think I'm not doing something right. A teacher will help you progress faster, but you can always take it slow. Have fun and let us know what you decide. :)

[poppy]

I tried to learn violin at age 35 . I can read music but I've never played strings before - just reeds and piano (and neither of those particularly well). I think violin is far more difficult technique wise than other instruments I've tried. After about 7 months of lessons I was at 'beginner recital' level, playing simple 4 line pieces. La cucaracha, barely at correct pitch and tempo. It was fun, though. I stopped when I got pregnant again and just wanted to nap all day. At that point I knew it wasn't like piano, where I am self taught and can play (easy) pieces for fun by sight.

 

There are lots of YouTube videos which can really help.

[laundrycrisis]

I will add - one person on YouTube whose videos have helped me through some things is Red Desert Violin.  She has some book 1 videos up that are free.  There is also a website with a pay membership, but I have no idea what you get access to with that.  

[Sara in AZ]

Depends one what your goals are. I started violin in 5 th grade and played in school orchestra until 11th grade, but i'd say I was basically self taught, no private lessons. Piano is my main instrument, so reading music was easy for me, but noone taught me how to shift or do vibrato or really hold my bow that great. So I tried to teach myself those things and my technique is terrible. As I've been watching my daughters learn with really good teachers over the last 10 years, I've realized how much I really missed when it comes to technique, and I'm trying to relearn with them as I can. BUT, I had a great time in orchestra. I enjoyed playing the violin when I did. My goal was never to perform as a soloist in front of others. So if your goal is just for personal enjoyment and challenging yourself to learn something new then go for it!

[KungFuPanda]

DH did this. He sounds pretty good for someone with no instruction and only two-year's worth of effort. HOWEVER he ended up needing physical therapy on his shoulder. We're fairly certain a teacher would have corrected the way he holds the instrument and he could have avoided the pain.

[Doodlebug]

Is violin an instrument I can pick up and self teach with a book or videos? After doing this a little with guitar to teach DS, I'm reminded that I always wanted to play violin and wonder if I could teach myself effectively. If it's too hard technique wise I won't bother.

 

If I'm reading your last comment there correctly, as a violin instructor I'd advise you to meander to something different.  

 

Or, change the goal from "teach myself effectively" to: "I'd like to have an adventurous musical experience."

 

You won't walk away from self studied violin practice sessions feeling relaxed, or even mostly successful.  But, you will always walk away with the experience of trying.  If experience is your goal, you will always feel successful.  If some level of mastery is your goal, you will be incredibly frustrated.       

[maize]

Difficult, but if you really want to do it you don't have to let the difficulty stop you.

 

I would recommend violinlab.com for video lessons. If you know a violinist they could help you put fingering tapes on the fingerboard, this is often helpful for beginners. Or you could buy one of the Don't Fret adhesive strips. If you would like advice on locating a decent quality violin without spending an arm and a leg send me a PM.

 

It would be really helpful if you had occasional access to a teacher to help make corrections, violin has a steep initial learning curve because there are just so many things to get right. Definitely harder than guitar.

[Arcadia]

If your aim is to save money, then get the basics correct from a teacher before self teaching.

[wintermom]

I tried to learn violin on my own, and it's just way too hard to get a really nice sound without knowing how to use the bow properly, and with no frets it's quite challenging to know exactly where and how to place your fingers on the strings. My dd and ds have been taking private lessons for 5 years and it took 2 years before they started to sound good. Before that it was squeaky and out of tune. In order to get a really good sound, you need to have the bow moving correctly on the string in the right spot and keep it parallel to the bridge. It takes hundreds of hours of practice to be able to do this. Not to mention that you need have a pretty decent instrument to get a good sound even when you do have good technique.

 

The accoustic guitar and piano are a lot easier to learn on your own. You don't have to worry about being out of tune when you play a note. They are also way cheaper to buy and still have good enough quality to sound nice.

[flyingiguana]

I've self taught myself recorder, trombone, mandolin, accordion (and maybe a couple others that I'm forgetting).  I managed to teach my daughters flute and trumpet without knowing myself, but eventually they got to a point where a teacher who actually knew how to play those instruments was necessary.  However, I must have been fairly successful at it as their band teacher was trying to get me to do private lessons for some of his other kids.

 

But violin.... yeah, that kind of stumped me.  I was able to start and could play, but I wasn't sounding like how I wanted to sound after a year or so.  I seemed to hit a dead end.  So I finally gave up and got a teacher.  It made a huge difference.

 

There are a lot of teaching videos online that I think would be helpful.  Someone suggested http://fiddlerman.com/tutorials/beginners-tutorials/which I will second.  They'll get you started. 

 

I do think I was fairly successful at teaching myself for the first year.  In fact, I could have just kept plugging away at learning tunes and sounding kind of eh.  I do hear a lot of people who sound that way who seem perfectly happy with their playing.  Some of them even get up and play in public.  But that wasn't enough for me. I had to get all perfectionist and everything.

 

That said, though, if you do decide to get a teacher -- I have found a whole lot of bad violin teachers out there.  This may be because playing violin is just hard, and telling someone else how to do it is equally difficult.  So you may need to shop around a little.  Ask people whose playing you like who their teacher is.  It's not enough that the teacher be able to play well.  They also have to produce decent playing students.

 

There's a facebook group of adult starters on violin: https://www.facebook.com/groups/119127121451810/(hope that works)

They're a nice bunch of people.  A lot of them are struggling with a lot of beginner issues so it would probably be fairly enlightening.  And supportive.

[displace]

Eek! I haven't been able to come back to this thread all day. I really appreciate all the replies, perspectives, encouragement, and realism.

 

Musically, I took piano lessons for years but I've forgotten a lot now. I also sang in choir groups when I was young. I'm not sure I would know if I have the right notes or not without some help. Guitar we just started about three months ago. We're going slowly as I'm not teaching myself much ahead of DS. Until yesterday when I just flipped through the book and did some easy measures of Ode to Joy and daydreamed of playing it on a violin.

 

As for goals I'd just like to play a bit of easy sheet music and sound good (as in, not horrible). I'm not seeking perfection or mastery or public performances.

 

Thanks for all the references too. Very helpful :). 🎻

[laundrycrisis]

Thank you for the link about the group - I just joined.  I started at age 40.  

[laundrycrisis]

Eek! I haven't been able to come back to this thread all day. I really appreciate all the replies, perspectives, encouragement, and realism.

 

Musically, I took piano lessons for years but I've forgotten a lot now. I also sang in choir groups when I was young. I'm not sure I would know if I have the right notes or not without some help. Guitar we just started about three months ago. We're going slowly as I'm not teaching myself much ahead of DS. Until yesterday when I just flipped through the book and did some easy measures of Ode to Joy and daydreamed of playing it on a violin.

 

As for goals I'd just like to play a bit of easy sheet music and sound good (as in, not horrible). I'm not seeking perfection or mastery or public performances.

 

Thanks for all the references too. Very helpful :). 🎻

 

 

If you can get tapes put on the violin, either by a teacher or by the shop, it isn't difficult at all to figure out what makes what note play, as long as you stay in first position.  It is challenging to make the notes sound nice, and to make transitions between notes sound nice, and to learn to move between different strings nicely.  Watching some videos about posture and left hand positioning and bow hold might help a lot.  I think you could at least get yourself far enough to decide if you want to invest in some help.  I had read music before on several instruments, but I found even beginning violin music confusing to read and difficult to play, because bowing was not something I had ever had to learn before.  Having someone explain what is supposed to be happening with the bow, and how that is marked on the music, was very helpful.  

[wintermom]

 

I do think I was fairly successful at teaching myself for the first year.  In fact, I could have just kept plugging away at learning tunes and sounding kind of eh.  I do hear a lot of people who sound that way who seem perfectly happy with their playing.  Some of them even get up and play in public.  But that wasn't enough for me. I had to get all perfectionist and everything.

 

That said, though, if you do decide to get a teacher -- I have found a whole lot of bad violin teachers out there.  This may be because playing violin is just hard, and telling someone else how to do it is equally difficult.  So you may need to shop around a little.  Ask people whose playing you like who their teacher is.  It's not enough that the teacher be able to play well.  They also have to produce decent playing students.

 

 

:iagree:   I'm really impressed that you stuck it out for so long doing the self-taught thing, especially when you have a good ear for music. The unique thing about the violin is that when played well it will have a singing sound similar to a voice. To be able to play to that quality is really the tricky part which takes the practice hours and proper technique. I didn't have the patience, and as a busy mom with lots of littles it was just easier to continue to play the piano and sing. I LOVE listening to my dc on the violin now, though. It was definitely worth perservering through the squeeky, off-key sounds to get to where they are now.

[wintermom]

Eek! I haven't been able to come back to this thread all day. I really appreciate all the replies, perspectives, encouragement, and realism.

 

Musically, I took piano lessons for years but I've forgotten a lot now. I also sang in choir groups when I was young. I'm not sure I would know if I have the right notes or not without some help. Guitar we just started about three months ago. We're going slowly as I'm not teaching myself much ahead of DS. Until yesterday when I just flipped through the book and did some easy measures of Ode to Joy and daydreamed of playing it on a violin.

 

As for goals I'd just like to play a bit of easy sheet music and sound good (as in, not horrible). I'm not seeking perfection or mastery or public performances.

 

Thanks for all the references too. Very helpful :). 🎻

 

I did the learning along the the dc on guitar as well as violin. It's really fun, but then all of a sudden the dc get really good and I didn't.  :laugh:  I've talked with many parents and they had similar experiences. Adults can learn some of the basics sometimes quicker than children, but then we just seem to stall. Finding the time to practice is so much more challenging, and having the patience to listen to oneself not sound good is also a challenge. Kids seem to be a lot more patient with themselves in that respect, or they don't expect to sound wonderful right away. Adults, myself included, do tend to want to sound good pretty quickly. It's not always realistic.

[flyingiguana]

My teacher does lessons over skype.  If a big problem with lessons is just getting the time in the day to get there, that might be an option.  I think there are other teachers I've seen on the web who do this too.

[laundrycrisis]

:iagree:   I'm really impressed that you stuck it out for so long doing the self-taught thing, especially when you have a good ear for music. The unique thing about the violin is that when played well it will have a singing sound similar to a voice. To be able to play to that quality is really the tricky part which takes the practice hours and proper technique. I didn't have the patience, and as a busy mom with lots of littles it was just easier to continue to play the piano and sing. I LOVE listening to my dc on the violin now, though. It was definitely worth perservering through the squeeky, off-key sounds to get to where they are now.

 

 

There is also a minimum quality of violin that is required to have it make that sound.  Some violins will never sing, no matter what, because the body of the violin does not resonate.  

 

Our first violins were rentals from a local shop.  On finding our teacher (our son's 5th teacher in his first year), she immediately told us to go get rentals from a different shop, an hour away.  She said keep these, go get those, and then compare them and decide.  The new shop will let you do this for free.  So we did.  We got the new ones home,  I played the old one, then played the new one - there was a huge difference.  Suddenly I realized that the first violins we had were little more than violin-shaped pieces of wood with strings attached.  For a longer drive but the same monthly cost, we were able to switch to violins that actually resonate.  These violins rewarded us when we played them correctly.  The second shop also provides a higher level of service for purchasing and maintenance.   If you want to rent a stringed instrument to see how you like it, it's worthwhile to get recommendations for a really good shop that has higher quality rental instruments. 

[flyingiguana]

VSO = violin shaped object

 

Also, my aunt's Stradivarius sounds like what you're describing.  A Kleenex box with some strings.

 

The point of renting, I've always thought, is to get an instrument that you can't afford to buy outright.  So you can get something better.

[poppy]

I once saw a child's violin for sale at Walmart for under $50. I really felt sorry for the kid who would try to learn on that.  When I rented, it was an $800 instrument I was using, and it was a starter violin.... fine, but most definitely student grade. 

 

I vowed to myself I would rent for a year before purchasing something, and I'm SO glad I did.  Because it took less than a year to realize it was just too difficult for me, given the commitment I was willing to make.    I don't say that to be discouraging, just, saying, better to rent a nice one than buy a cheap one for sure!