Indulge my flights of fancy a moment - would you consider retirement in Vermont?

[brehon]

Sparkly, I'm curious. What is the average heat index up in your neck of the woods and how long does it last? I've never been up there.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sparkly, I'm curious. What is the average heat index up in your neck of the woods and how long does it last? I've never been up there.

 

It's not the heat that is the worst problem.  It's the humidity.  I don't know what a heat index is.  Does that take that into account?

 

I'm not claiming we are hotter than Georgia, but we are as humid if not a bit more. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I lived in Vermont for a couple of years in the 1980s.  So it's been a while.

What struck me about it was how classicly New Englandish the countryside was, and how dramatic the seasonal changes were.  I would get in the car, pick a direction, and explore most Saturdays, and the hilly terrain and little towns with one white church on a public square dotted the landscape everywhere.  It was beautiful and peaceful.  And the season changes were almost as dramatic as scene changes in a play--in one week the landscape would change completely.  So beautiful!

 

Of all the months I hated November the most.  It was cold, wet instead of snowy (so you got REALLY cold), and the landscape was devoid of green without a lovely snow cover.  Miserable. 

 

Compared to other snowy areas, Vermont really doesn't get all that much snow, because it's mostly too cold to snow.  In two winters the most snow I remember getting in one storm was only 8 inches.  It's also a small state, that MUST stay 'open for business' during the long winters, so plowing and salting happens very efficiently after a storm.

 

I really enjoyed living there, but even in my 20s I thought it would be a tough place to be elderly, because of the slipping hazards due to icy/sloppy conditions for so much of the year--maybe late October through April. 

[PrincessMommy]

I live pretty close to Vermont.  We have the heat and humidity here too.  Winters are frigid and bitterly cold.  Summers are HUMID and can get hot.  There is very little in between weather here.  Fall is nice, but it's short.  Spring is even shorter and not always that nice. 

 

I think people assume up north means less humidity and heat.  That's just not the case. 

 

now that just makes me sad. 

[KungFuPanda]

 

I think people assume up north means less humidity and heat. That's just not the case.

I believe you believe this. I really do. I once moved straight from Massachusetts to Georgia. I can't describe how staggering the difference is.

[brehon]

It's not the heat that is the worst problem. It's the humidity. I don't know what a heat index is. Does that take that into account?

 

I'm not claiming we are hotter than Georgia, but we are as humid if not a bit more.

Heat index is a calculation involving the air temperature and the relative humidity. It is a slightly subjective measurement in that it measures the human perception of how hot it is.

 

In my area it isn't unusual to have temps 90s with the relative humidity over 50%. That makes it feel over 100*. And when you extend this out over the whole summer (in my area that usually means late May through the mid-September) it's stifling. This year has been unusual in that we didn't have our first day over 100* (actual temperature) until July.

 

Is that similar to your area? You're absolutely right in that relatively high humidity can make a day feel awful even if the air temp isn't that hot!

[GailV]

We lived in NH for 4 years ("live free or die").  On one hand it was absolutely gorgeous; and the snow removal was top notch; but by May of the 4th year I was DONE with the piles of snow in the parking lots.

 

From there we moved to Evansville, Indiana, which has pretty much the same weather as St. Louis.  They have no clue what to do with snow in Evansville. BUT they understand heat and humidity, and believe me, what VT/NH has is just a tiny little spitwad of heat and humidity --  it isn't even worth complaining about. 

 

We lived in St. Louis for a year before we moved to NH.  That winter people died of cold.  That summer people died of heat.  And, yes, this was the late 20th century.  I am often puzzled when people other places claim they have extreme weather.  (I am also puzzled as to why there's a city here where the weather is so sucky plus bonus  earthquakes, but that's a different discussion.)

 

So, I wouldn't want to retire to VT, but I can understand the appeal for others.

[redsquirrel]

Heat index is a calculation involving the air temperature and the relative humidity. It is a slightly subjective measurement in that it measures the human perception of how hot it is.

 

In my area it isn't unusual to have temps 90s with the relative humidity over 50%. That makes it feel over 100*. And when you extend this out over the whole summer (in my area that usually means late May through the mid-September) it's stifling. This year has been unusual in that we didn't have our first day over 100* (actual temperature) until July.

 

Is that similar to your area? You're absolutely right in that relatively high humidity can make a day feel awful even if the air temp isn't that hot!

 

Absolutely it can.  I'm not a southerner and even I have the good grace to laugh when us northerners complain that it is 100 degrees.  In our defense, air conditioning isn't as prevalent in private homes.  When we had a particularly nasty heat wave a few years ago our community had to open cooling centers and we were asked to check on elderly neighbors, etc.  My mom, who lives close to Burlington would NEVER buy an air conditioner, not even a wall unit. She sees using air conditioning as a sign of moral weakness...just like turning on the heat before October or heating the second floor of a house.  It gets hotter where I live and I did get the kids wall units, but they may only turn them on at night if it is over 85 degrees in the house. And we don't heat the bedrooms in the winter, because that breeds weaklings, lol

 

My particular local climate is known for being very wet. I live in the finger lakes and today is a very dry day. It is 80 degrees and 65% humidity. It can absolutely be 90 degrees and 85% humidity for days on end. Yuck. We have these huge late afternoon thunderstorms and then everything just steams.  It's so gross. Bread will mold on the counter in a day if you leave it out and I don't even bother to buy cereal or crackers July-September because they go all soft the moment they are opened.  The kids chewable vitamins swell up and fall apart. 

[Melinda in VT]

I live pretty close to Vermont. We have the heat and humidity here too. Winters are frigid and bitterly cold. Summers are HUMID and can get hot. There is very little in between weather here. Fall is nice, but it's short. Spring is even shorter and not always that nice.

 

I think people assume up north means less humidity and heat. That's just not the case.

Now I'm really curious where you live.

 

I am a complete heat wimp, and I think summers in VT are great. No complaints with summer here.

 

 

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[plansrme]

I went out for a run this morning at 6 AM; temp was a balmy 78; humidity was at 99%. It was like running in a pool. It has been this way for weeks on end. The humidity burns off as the temps go up, but the window of comfort for outdoor activities is about 10 minutes long. Snow removal is no picnic, I am sure, but neither is this.

[AmandaVT]

Now I'm really curious where you live.

 

I am a complete heat wimp, and I think summers in VT are great. No complaints with summer here.

 

 

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I'm a total heat wimp too and we didn't bring out our window A/C units this year. There have been a few days (especially earlier this week) that I wish we had, but our night temps cool off enough that a window fan is sufficient most days. We moved here from RI and the couple of years in college I lived in Providence had way worse heat than here and I know that doesn't even begin to compare to the south. I think the night temperatures are a big difference maker. Many nights this summer, I had to switch to long pants and a light sweatshirt so I wouldn't be freezing and we shut windows a number of nights too. 

[Crimson Wife]

 I am also puzzled as to why there's a city here where the weather is so sucky plus bonus  earthquakes, but that's a different discussion.

 

I'd gladly give up the nice CA weather for the affordability of St. Louis. I was there in June for a week and while it was hot & humid, I was blown away by how affordable even the nice areas were. We could buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood outright for the downpayment we put on our current home.

[ThursdayNext]

We were there once for a week, for a friend's wedding. I have always wanted to go back. It was beautiful, so beautiful. We loved the people and the whole feel of the area.

 

Yes, I would retire there, if I was nearer to family and friends, or could easily afford a lot of travel.

 

Or I would move there now if we could pull up roots, and a great job was there.

[redsquirrel]

I'd gladly give up the nice CA weather for the affordability of St. Louis. I was there in June for a week and while it was hot & humid, I was blown away by how affordable even the nice areas were. We could buy a nice home in a nice neighborhood outright for the downpayment we put on our current home.

 

Yes, but remember salaries are commiserate with the lower COL.  It costs less to live there but people earn less and there is often less opportunity as well.  If you can do a job online without having to meet with clients or be near the source of your employment, then it's great. I know DH and I would seriously consider it. The COL isn't high here, compared to big cities, but it is quite a bit higher than the surrounding area.

 

There have been a couple companies that relocated to VT because it is so nice to live there.

[Guest]

Comparisons are everything. I have lived in Maryland all my life and the humidity hear ranges from bad to horrible through the summer. Today os a perfect example. It is not that hot; in the low 80s, but it is very humid. There are big towering clouds that keep saying they want to rain, but so far, only sprinkles.

 

For winters - I'm not gonna lie, our past two winters have been much colder and snowier than average. I did get tired of the cold. The snow I don't mind much, as long as I don't have to go anywhere. I would rather be fireside anyway. Also, there is a reason why I like a ski trip in VT in March. By March, it is "regular" cold, not Jadis-The-Queen-is-Here-to-Stay cold.

 

NH probably could do with consideration, too, for the tax benefits. I just have no experience with NH. I haven't stayed there, only driven through.

[PrincessMommy]

Comparisons are everything. I have lived in Maryland all my life and the humidity hear ranges from bad to horrible through the summer. Today os a perfect example. It is not that hot; in the low 80s, but it is very humid. There are big towering clouds that keep saying they want to rain, but so far, only sprinkles.

 

For winters - I'm not gonna lie, our past two winters have been much colder and snowier than average. I did get tired of the cold. The snow I don't mind much, as long as I don't have to go anywhere. I would rather be fireside anyway. Also, there is a reason why I like a ski trip in VT in March. By March, it is "regular" cold, not Jadis-The-Queen-is-Here-to-Stay cold.

 

NH probably could do with consideration, too, for the tax benefits. I just have no experience with NH. I haven't stayed there, only driven through.

 

I didn't realize you've lived in MD your whole life!! There's so few of us natives here.

 

I have found that as I've aged I don't tolerate the extreme heat/humidity or cold the way I used to.  The heat especially bothers me. I get head aches and feel sick.  I don't know if it's actually worse than when I was a little child (I remember smog days and we had no central a/c) or if it's part of the aging process.

[Carol in Cal.]

One thing I loved about living in Vermont was that in the summer the sun was up really late.  We could run over to friends' places on Lake Champlain and have hours of beach fun after work before it got dark.  The lake has a very gentle slope to its bottom, so it warms up a lot more than you might think (considering that it freezes so solid that they have car races on it every winter).  I got the best tan of my life living there, and that is funny for a girl from California.  Well, NorCal.  So that explains it, LOL.  The ocean and the beach are usually pretty cold up here.

 

OTOH, this also means very short hours of daylight in the winter, which can bother some people.  Go to work in the dark, leave in the dark, blink a lot on Saturday--what is that bright thing up in the sky???

[catz]

I'd consider somewhere like Vermont.  I do not like super hot weather!  I was also thinking Santa Fe, NM might make a nice retirement settlement.  :)

[KungFuPanda]

Comparisons are everything. I have lived in Maryland all my life and the humidity hear ranges from bad to horrible through the summer. Today os a perfect example. It is not that hot; in the low 80s, but it is very humid. There are big towering clouds that keep saying they want to rain, but so far, only sprinkles.

 

For winters - I'm not gonna lie, our past two winters have been much colder and snowier than average. I did get tired of the cold. The snow I don't mind much, as long as I don't have to go anywhere. I would rather be fireside anyway. Also, there is a reason why I like a ski trip in VT in March. By March, it is "regular" cold, not Jadis-The-Queen-is-Here-to-Stay cold.

 

NH probably could do with consideration, too, for the tax benefits. I just have no experience with NH. I haven't stayed there, only driven through.

We got the rain. It's been on and off all day. Summer is trying to sneak out and I'm not having it!

[Guest]

I didn't realize you've lived in MD your whole life!! There's so few of use natives here.

 

I have found that as I've aged I don't tolerate the extreme heat/humidity or cold the way I used to. The heat especially bothers me. I get head aches and feel sick. I don't know if it's actually worse than when I was a little child (I remember smog days and we had no central a/c) or if it's part of the aging process.

Yes, besides which I have a long family history in Maryland. :)

 

I have never done well in the extreme heat. The nice thing about this was that I could never "lay out" like my friends to get a tan. It made me feel sick and dizzy. I think my skin thanks me for being a heat-weenie.

 

My parents never had central air; they still don't. They had a little window unit for their bedroom, but the rest of the house was just hot as can be in the summer. I can't stand to go to their house in the summer. I guess they are used to it, but I think it is miserable.

[Deb in NZ]

I grew up in Vermont, just outside Burlington. After graduating UVM, I taught a couple years in the Northeast Kingdom. I love Vermont & would move there in a minute if Dh would agree. Vermont is too far from the ocean for him. Summers are hot & humid, much more so than where I currently live & the bugs are bad in the evenings. Winters are long, but I like snow so that is fine with me. I have felt colder here in New Zealand in the winter as Vermont winters are not humid & houses are heated & well insulated.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes, but remember salaries are commiserate with the lower COL.  It costs less to live there but people earn less and there is often less opportunity as well.

 

Not that much lower compared to the COL difference. The median household income for St. Louis County is $52k. The median household income for my county is $78k. But the houses here are quadruple (or more) the prices I saw in St. Louis.

[redsquirrel]

I saw this today and thought of you:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/travel/what-to-do-in-36-hours-in-burlington-vermont.html?action=click&contentCollection=travel&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront

 

I have been to at least one of the restaurants shown and I have taken the boys to the Shelburne.  And I grew up on Lake Champlain. I live in another city on a lake now, but it's not 'my' lake, kwim? And after growing up on Champlain, a lake has to be pretty big to impress me.  The Great Lakes are wonderful, but lots of lakes just look like puddles to me.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I would move to VT in a heartbeat.

[creekland]

now that just makes me sad. 

 

 

I didn't realize you've lived in MD your whole life!! There's so few of use natives here.

 

I have found that as I've aged I don't tolerate the extreme heat/humidity or cold the way I used to.  The heat especially bothers me. I get head aches and feel sick.  I don't know if it's actually worse than when I was a little child (I remember smog days and we had no central a/c) or if it's part of the aging process.

 

I don't do well with excessive heat or humidity either.  I'll side with those who say that VT (and NY) really don't have it.  Natives there think they do (my parents are both lifelong NY residents/natives), but they only think that due to what they are used to.  For them it is hot and humid.

 

Folks around here (south central PA) feel they have awful winters some years.  Having come from far northern NY, even after living here for 19 years, I still scoff at the ideas that ANY of our local winters are bad.  We barely get to zero once or twice per year - if that - many times we don't even get close.  We might get a handful of snowstorms (10+ inches).  We get occasional snowfalls (<5 inches).  To them, that is wicked!  It might set records here, but by comparison?  It's nothing.

 

What is bad for weather is really, really relative.  Having lived in MD as long as you have, you're likely to not even notice the "heat and humidity" in VT or NY.  I love visiting back home in the summer, but try not to laugh too much when they're calling 80s "awful!"  They will get into the 90s occasionally, but nowhere near what we get.

 

Many people get tired of both long winters and heat & humidity.  That's why snow birding is so popular for those who can afford it.

 

My comfort zone is 50 - 80... I like some snow.  I'll tolerate a couple of hot days if I must.  But if we could afford it, we'd likely travel to stay in our comfort zone as much as possible.

[Carol in Cal.]

I saw this today and thought of you:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/travel/what-to-do-in-36-hours-in-burlington-vermont.html?action=click&contentCollection=travel&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront

 

I have been to at least one of the restaurants shown and I have taken the boys to the Shelburne.  And I grew up on Lake Champlain. I live in another city on a lake now, but it's not 'my' lake, kwim? And after growing up on Champlain, a lake has to be pretty big to impress me.  The Great Lakes are wonderful, but lots of lakes just look like puddles to me.

OMGosh, they have dim sum now?  In the STATE?

 

When I moved there, the Chinese food all seemed to have pineapple in it.  And the only dim sum was fried wontons offered as an appetizer in a Chinese/Polynesian restaurant.  Coming from San Francisco, I experienced serious withdrawal symptoms.  Careful research revealed that there was good Chinese food in Montreal (2 hours away, but with an international border crossing) and Boston (4 hours away.)  The first time I went home for Christmas I raided Chinatown and purchased a wok, bamboo steamers, implements, and a couple of good cookbooks.  I taught myself to make Chinese food with this, and enjoyed having company over to share it.

 

I didn't quite 'get' how to make good dim sum, though (although my siu mai was pretty authentic, as were my potstickers) so when I saw that UVM was going to offer an intensive class in making dim sum I signed up right away.  They only needed 4 people for the class to be held.  You guessed it; it was cancelled for lack of enrollment.  I theorize that I was one of the few people in the state at that time who had ever even heard of it.

 

I can't imagine going to Vermont and having ice cream other than Ben and Jerry's, though.  It's the local peeps!  They make good ice cream!  It's FROM downtown Burlington!  Have a Ben and Jerry's!

[Hwin]

Winter is a lot of work when you're old. 

[PrincessMommy]

Yes, besides which I have a long family history in Maryland. :)

 

I have never done well in the extreme heat. The nice thing about this was that I could never "lay out" like my friends to get a tan. It made me feel sick and dizzy. I think my skin thanks me for being a heat-weenie.

 

My parents never had central air; they still don't. They had a little window unit for their bedroom, but the rest of the house was just hot as can be in the summer. I can't stand to go to their house in the summer. I guess they are used to it, but I think it is miserable.

 

We must be distant cousins.  I'm the only one in my family who hates sitting out in the sun, it makes me feel sick too.. Sun and sand together is  worse! 

 

My family has a long history in MD too!  LOL.  We'll have to get a corner and talk at the meet-up. ;) 

 

I remember when my parents got central air.. my mom was so happy.  I think I was already out of the house by then.