OH MY! Galore Park Sci. Shocker!!

[Kathleen in VA]

Kathleen,

 

I'm so sorry. What you experienced was clearly child abuse and there's absolutely no justification for it. In 40 years, I've never heard of that approach to sex education before (though I'm sure it happens more frequently than I can imagine.) I consider myself "moderate" on social issues, but your parents' actions were so extreme I can only classify them as mentally ill.

 

I feel terrible that you had to experience such a thing. Wrapping you in prayers!

 

Linda, thank you so much for your prayers. It has been a long process for me from feeling defiled beyond my ability to handle it, consumed by anger for the damage they caused to forgiving them. That forgiveness came only through the grace of God. I honestly believe they thought they were helping me so that I would be more prepared for adulthood. It happened during the 70's when books like "Open Marriage" and "Everything You Wanted to Know About S*x" were very popular. They thought they were doing me a favor. And yes, I believe they were mentally ill.

 

After these episodes my mom spent the next 30 or so years attempting suicide repeatedly. I found her unconscious on many occasions - she could not deal with the guilt. My parents divorced when I was 14. Mom died in 1995 of lung cancer after being a chain smoker for most of her adult life. My dad has never shown any remorse and lives 5000 miles away, thankfully. I do not have to deal with him often. I do pray for him.

 

God has brought me a long way and I am so very thankful for His care and love. I have learned that if it weren't for His grace I could have been just as terrible a parent as mine were. Jesus is the only perfect person who ever lived and it is through His righteousness that I am able to be forgiven for my sins and have a right relationship with God. I don't understand why I had to experience the things I went through as a child, but I trust that God has His reasons. I look at my own children and realize they are a wonderful testimony of His power and grace. How can I question the past when I see how beautiful and precious they are? I believe that God is good all the time - even when I don't fully understand the circumstances he places me in. Now I see through a glass darkly - one day I will see Him face to face. To God be the glory.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Righto, Dragons. Consider it done. :001_smile:

 

Sahamamama, I am pronouncing you queen for the day.

[anissarobert]

Kathleen,

 

Thank you for sharing. It must be hard to talk about. This thread has given me so much to think about. I have a 14 year-old daughter and although I think she is well informed, that picture would have given me pause. She is in 9th grade, and I wonder if I would show it to her. Maybe, but it would be difficult. I am sure that I would not have shown it to her two years ago. She was not in that place in 7th grade.

 

I'm avoiding my work, by spending time on the boards, thanks for giving me so much to ponder.

 

Anissa

[Zelda]

I think so much is dependent on *how* its presented. Even more than so than what is actually presented. If one is uncomfortable with the picture then don't show it because your discomfort will come across. Whatever method/age allows you to comfortably discuss the facts of life so that kids won't be scared or alarmed about sex is probably best. Right? I hope so because that's what I'm trying to do.

 

My parents didn't let me see "the movie" in sixth grade because they wanted to tell me themselves. They then proceeded to never tell me. I got my period when I was almost 14 and thank goodness for my friends because I did know what to do but it could just have easily gone another way. I've been telling my daughter as she asks and have used books. I've used her reactions as a guide to how much to tell...when she stops asking questions, I stop explaining. When she asked how babies are made we read about eggs and sperm but not how one got to the other...until she asked that.

 

I haven't seen the picture but my initial reaction was, "Good grief, no." I think I would be so uncomfortable with that. But, my oldest is only 9...when she's 13, who knows...maybe I'll be ready.

 

Kathleen, I'm so sorry. You're inspiring in your ability to get any clarity on the subject after going through that.

[sagira]

Kathleen, it was not until now that I read your post. I'm so sorry you had to go through that -- that is shocking -- and disturbing. Giving you hugs from cyberspace :grouphug:

 

As I'm a very visual person, when I was curious about the whole thing, I even bought some dirty magazines when I was 16 because I kept thinking, like I do about everything, but how?? If you knew me you would know that I just research everything I want to know to death, and at that time, short of actual observation (yikes! :() or participation (not even close) at all, I was eager to learn anything I could learn.

 

And guess what? I still married a virgin to a virgin. So much for research.

[jonesloonybin]

Thank you all for your input. I guess it just gave me pause. This sounds sad but when it comes to raising my kids I usually do the opposite of whatever MY parents did. But I also do not want to go too far the other way.

 

My daughter has not started her "monthly" time yet but we have talked about it. I have read everyone's posts and I am truly thankful for the insight. DH and I have decided to do the chapter first without the picture and then if she still has questions or feels she needs more info. then I will consider using the diagram/picture.

 

Again thank you for taking the time to help me with this. Some days I feeling like every decision is so HUGE and I just want her to have the childhood that she deserves and not have to grow up too soon.

[jonesloonybin]

Kathleen, I am very sorry for what you went thru.

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for your help.

[Scarlett]

Maybe I am crazy...my hubby doesn't seem that worried about it but he said he was very sheltered growing up and wished he knew more but I grew up knowing everything..(my parents kept adult movies and magazines in the house and didn't seem to care if the kids seen them) I feel like that led to bad decisions and would like to spare my children from having to grow up too soon.

 

I am not saying NEVER talk about it...but 13 does seem young to me.

 

So...give me your opinion. Am I as loony as my user name? :lol:

 

Ok, thanks for emailing it to me. After seeing it, I lean toward being ok with it for a 13 year old. It is very clinical...as someone said it looks like something from a doctors office---you might not find that exact drawing hanging on a doctors wall, but you do see others...like the insides of females ect. Anyway, it doesn't bother me. I showed it to my dh and he just shrugged as if he thought it was nothing as well. However, he is much less conservative than me so there's that to consider.

 

I am MUCH less bothered by this drawing in a science textbook than I am having to walk past Victoria's Secret with my ds8. :tongue_smilie:

 

All that being said, I would not think you were overly conservative or overly sheltering if you chose to hold off showing her this picture for a few more years. However, I think if she knows you cut something out of the book the curiosity may kill her and that may prove to be worse than letting her see it and discussing it in a ho-hum sort of way.

 

 

Anyway, that is my very (not) decisive opinion. :)

[Zelda]

However, I think if she knows you cut something out of the book the curiosity may kill her and that may prove to be worse than letting her see it and discussing it in a ho-hum sort of way.

 

 

Great point.

 

I was just remembering that my left a weird facts-of-life book laying around and I *think* I was supposed to find it and read it and it had drawings. I was a young teen. I felt like I was looking at contraband (I tended to do that...no diary or letter was off-limits to my prying) and the secrecy of it made me feel awful. Plus, I in no way felt like I could ask anyone about it. I knew my mother was so uncomfortable with any discussion of s*x.

 

But, I guess the fact that I'm only remembering it now means the picture, even under those circumstances, didn't seer a horrible impression into my psyche.

[caitlinsmom]

I personally would take the time to make this a learning experiance with her. I know at 13 I already new all about that stuff but not the honest true info. I think kids get so much junk and unrealistic info in the early teens. Anyway I would definatly gage your dd's maturity, your values, etc and go from there. But me, I would use it and have a frank discussion about it and move on.

[8filltheheart]

This response is directed to no one in particular. ;)

 

I am amazed at the number of people who merge explicit education with using the picture and non-explicit education with not using the picture. I am baffled why one assumption leads to the other.

 

I would not use the picture with my kids. There are some things I simply don't think need a physical representation for it to be clear as to what is occurring.

 

However, I would suspect that my kids probably leave our home armed with more information than the average teen.....picture or no picture. Human s*xuality is intertwined into a lot of our theological discussions in high school. It is discussed in terms of the sanctity of marriage, sanctity of life, not using birth control, how natural family planning works, theology of the body, etc all in addition to the basic biological process that they get pre-puberty as well as from biology and anatomy/physiology. (Not to mention that we don't run and hide and have our discussions in isolation. Little ears eavesdrop quite a bit.)

 

Not using illustrations does not equate with not discussing the subject or even feeling uncomfortable with the topic.

[Meliss]

Kathleen, thank you for posting your powerful testimony of God's grace and healing in your life!

[Jill]

Just weighing in here. Someone already mentioned ducks and we have a flock of ducks plus various other animals. When ducks (and chickens) copulate, it just looks _dreadful! Even keeping the number of drakes down to spec it's just rough on the hens. The drakes have to hold onto the feathers on the back of the hen's head and use their claws from their feet to scratch onto their backs and on top of it, the male anatomy is spiraled. (so is the female's and that's a whole 'nother biology lesson.) so between those guys and our sheep ("What's Mr. Baa doing to Mrs. Baa?") some talk of the facts of life has been necessary at age 6 and even a little before. It has also been necessary to at least mention that with humans, it's not nearly so rough. (no jokes here, k?) I doubt I would shy away from a diagram such as was described by the age of 13.

 

I could have used a lot more info regarding menstrual cycles as I had mine before we were shown the one little movie in grade school. I was clueless and while I also had "farm knowledge" of reproduction, it was minimal as things just weren't discussed in my family household. I think that is generally a bad way to go with young women - not _enough_ information to be comfortable with all the changes.

 

In Kathleen's case and others where someone might show discomfort when teaching, perhaps there's a close trusted female who could help with presenting these lessons at the level the family is comfortable? with Kathleen or parent on hand, perhaps only casually interested or even doing something else...?

I'm so sorry about how you were "taught", Kathleen.

- Jill in ND

[FO4UR]

I would not use the detailed pictures with 13yo.

 

I don't think it's dirty to talk about intercourse, and I think that using a pic might actually have the effect of making it feel dirty even though it shouldn't. It's an intimate act, and it's healthy for a 13yo to feel embarassed or ashamed to see others do it (even if it's just a drawing).

 

We have all heard stories (or experienced) walking in on our parents dtd.....it's completely natural and healthy.....but not something we want to be a part of:ohmy::eek::scared: It does not foster feelings of understanding and value of our own bodies:lol:, but rather embarassment and shock.

 

I don't see anything wrong with a diagram of the parts and pieces, but the pic of the nekkie man would bother me too....b/c there is a face to it... Again, it's something that shouldn't be shamful to discuss (male anatomy), but the pic pushes a private moment into the open air...maybe I'm a prude, but I'd rather not look at that. I'd much prefer studying anatomy with a diagram w/o a face, and save the private moments for my marriage.

[Laura Corin]

I don't see anything wrong with a diagram of the parts and pieces, but the pic of the nekkie man would bother me too....b/c there is a face to it... Again, it's something that shouldn't be shamful to discuss (male anatomy), but the pic pushes a private moment into the open air...maybe I'm a prude, but I'd rather not look at that. I'd much prefer studying anatomy with a diagram w/o a face, and save the private moments for my marriage.

 

But I think those who have described it as showing just the technically involved bits: no faces.

 

Laura

[dawn of ns]

But I think those who have describe it as showing just the technically involved bits: no faces.

 

Laura

 

Yup. It's just the torsos and upper legs. Very technical and meant to give the viewer a good idea of where the penis is in relation to the womb and such when a couple is engaged in intercourse.

[jonesloonybin]

The picture of the actual S*X is a headless picture but the picture of the nude male has a whole body...even a beard.

[Zelda]

Oh, well...that is not what I pictured. That I would not have an issue showing to a typical 13-year old.

[genie]

But what if your child is a visual learner and all the talking in the world still leaves them at a loss?

 

Jenny, I thought of this post today when I became aware that my daughter

had a few things mixed up about her anatomy. So far, all we had done was talk about it. (Repeatedly, on this particular point.) All the words in the world apparently weren't getting the point across. So I found an online visual and explained it again, and it was like she was hearing it for the first time! Obviously, diagrams aren't a necessity, but they can really help explain physiological concepts.

[FO4UR]

Yup. It's just the torsos and upper legs. Very technical and meant to give the viewer a good idea of where the penis is in relation to the womb and such when a couple is engaged in intercourse.

 

I would have to see it myself in order to make a decision.

 

The picture of the actual S*X is a headless picture but the picture of the nude male has a whole body...even a beard.

 

I have a problem with that one. I wouldn't want to look at as a grown woman, let alone a 13yo! I'd rather show a pic of the Statue of David.:lol:

[Scarlett]

I would have to see it myself in order to make a decision.

 

 

 

I have a problem with that one. I wouldn't want to look at as a grown woman, let alone a 13yo! I'd rather show a pic of the Statue of David.:lol:

 

I'm thinking the point of showing a man's face with a beard is to make it clear that this is the anatomy of a man.

[8filltheheart]

LOL!!! Surely if the reader is a male.....um, they are familiar with the parts. If the reader is a female.....obviously they are missing.

[Scarlett]

LOL!!! Surely if the reader is a male.....um, they are familiar with the parts. If the reader is a female.....obviously they are missing.

 

 

Maybe the reader is a male but hasn't yet realized that GIRLS don't have these parts. :001_tt2:

[nmoira]

Maybe the reader is a male but hasn't yet realized that GIRLS don't have these parts. :001_tt2:

:lol:

[Holly IN]

I would have shredded the book. :D The pictures alone wouldn't be allowed in my house. :glare: TMI....My sons know about sex but do not have to have a picture showing it.

 

Holly

[dawn of ns]

I showed it to my ten year old. She thought it was interesting but a little abstract. We starting out talking about it but pretty soon the conversation went off onto fertilization that happens outside the body, asexual reproduction and the advantages of sexual reproduction over asexual. And then I remembered she was supposed to be practicing violin. So the picture was a great discussion starter!

[Carrie12345]

My first reaction was "No way, no how!" Then I realized that I have been changing diapers and breastfeeding in my living room for years. And there's very little bathroom privacy, even for adults, in our house. My kids have seen all the parts in real life. An illustration of how they fit together would probably not be a big deal in our house... eventually.

 

I don't think that I would show it to my 10 year old today (though we have covered the topic verbally), but I could see using it when he's a little older.

[KidsHappen]

Much like the technical kinds of illustrations that you may see in a dr.'s office. As someone else pointed out the illustration only shows from the below the breast to the knees and is more of an outline. These are very similar to the picture in the Usborne book about babies.

 

I for one could have used this particular drawing when I was younger. My mother was very open in discussing these issues with me but she missed one very important detail that she probably didn't even think of. She explained how the parts fit together but not the state that a man's anatomy need to be in to accomplish this task. All of the pictures or illustrations of men that I had ever seen showed men in their unaroused state (i.e. - David). I couldn't for the life of me understand how this part which was pointing in the wrong direction could possible interlock with the proper receptical which pointed in the other direction. :confused: I pictured that some very strange contortions were needed to accomplish this task. Of course, I figured it out fairly quickly when the need arosed, so to speak but a proper illustration could have saved me years of confusion and made me much less nervous and more prepared when that time came.

 

Don't ssume that just because you have explained it, your child understands it. Also never assume that you child is comfortable asking the necessary questions or even that they know what questions to ask. And I guarantee you will not think of ever single possible thing that they need to know or way that they could misinterpret or misunderstand. And IMO 13 is definitely not too young to be discussing, picturing, and understanding such things especially in a scientific manner.

[clwcain]

Many of my friends became active by their 13th birthday. FWIW