If you are a moderate, does every election make you sick?

[JennifersLost]

I hate elections. I feel like this every time. McCain/Palin take a stance on some issues that I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And Obama/Biden take a stance on other issues I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And some of them are the same stance, LOL.

 

I cannot in GOOD conscience vote for either party.

 

And I cannot in GOOD conscience abstain from voting.

 

In either case, whichever side I vote for, I will be making a decision which supports some "broader" cause that I feel strongly about at the expense of a more "personal" cause which is right next to my heart.

 

The whole exercise is making me feel like throwing up. Whatever I do I'm going to be betraying my conscience.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I hate elections. I feel like this every time. McCain/Palin take a stance on some issues that I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And Obama/Biden take a stance on other issues I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And some of them are the same stance, LOL.

 

I cannot in GOOD conscience vote for either party.

 

And I cannot in GOOD conscience abstain from voting.

 

In either case, whichever side I vote for, I will be making a decision which supports some "broader" cause that I feel strongly about at the expense of a more "personal" cause which is right next to my heart.

 

The whole exercise is making me feel like throwing up. Whatever I do I'm going to be betraying my conscience.

 

I don't know that I like the term moderate much anymore. It seems like more and more it describes a mythological voter that is near impossible to find in nature.

 

You actually sound quite passionate about your beliefs. To me moderation implies some middle road of 'well a little of that is ok, just not too much."

I think the main problem is that the parties tend to paint themselves and each other in stark contrast. And the fault lines that are chosen aren't necessarily the ones that voters would choose.

 

So you end up with pro-choice fiscal conservatives who are against overseas interventions and pro-gun athiests who want more new energy sources and school choice anti vaccine advocates who favor a strong military and pro-life vegetarians who favor the death penalty in some cases. It reminds me of how borders were drawn in African colonies or in the Central Asian Republics of the USSR without regard to tribal/ethnic affiliations of the populace (or in the case of the USSR, to actually fragment an ethnic group).

 

I know who I will be voting for. And it is someone that two years ago I said I would have a huge problem with. And there are some policies that he advocates that I think are preposterous. But my worst opinion of that ticket is better than my best opinion of the other.

 

And then I look at who would be appointing Supreme Court judges and that clinches the deal.

 

On the other hand, I've done a fair amount of reading on the Kansas state elections in the 1850s and 1860s. And concluded that modern political scrapping and fraud have nothing on what used to happen. (One election, more people voted than were counted resident in the state a few months earlier. Ferry times from MO to KS were advertised in MO papers so Missourians could go over and vote in Kansas.)

[cathmom]

I said to dh last night, "if the Republicans would just do something so that every American has health coverage, I could be happy." But they won't.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Jennifer, I need to clarify that I'm not arguing with your using the word moderate. I just dislike how it is used in the media because I think then both sides see it as grounds for not taking a certain set of concerns seriously.

[choirfarm]

Christine

[Jenny in Florida]

It's more that I just don't fit into the nice, neat boxes the two major parties seem to expect.

 

But, yes, I do find every election season pretty painful. It doesn't make me sick so much as depressed. I get depressed that there doesn't seem to be anyone "in power" speaking for me. I get depressed that the majority of American voters don't seem to be capable of thinking their way out of a paper bag and that they choose a candidate to vote for based on such silly, superficial things.

 

An aside: I heard a report on the radio yesterday, one of those "person on the street reaction" pieces about Sarah Palin's speech. They interviewed one man who, prior to hearing Palin speak, was planning to vote Democratic. However, he liked Palin because she was "fiesty," and so has decided to vote Republican, instead.

 

Huh? Does this man even care about the issues? Does he have any clue what the candidates' positions are on various issues? How is it possible to make such a huge swing based on a single speech? And does he not realize that the whole speech (like most other such events) was scripted and coached and rehearsed?

 

It's enough to make a person feel truly despondent.

[justme]

I just have to ask about people that want a political party to 'do something' so that everyone magically has (I'm assuming free) health care. In a perfect world, health coverage would be affordable for all. And by 'affordable', I mean reasonably priced with transparency in fees, quality of care, etc.. so that people could choose a plan, and yes, be able to pay for it due to market forces. Whenever something is provided for free, it invites abuse and corruption.

 

I get very nervous to hear so many people wanting government to 'do something' to provide health care. That something can only be providing free (which is never free since someone always has to pay for it via taxes) health care to everyone. This smacks of dependency and helplessness and is not what government was intended for. It will lead to nothing but more government control of every aspect of our lives.

 

Can someone explain more clearly what the 'something' is that they expect to be done? Is it, as I suspect, a universal/socialist style of health care distribution or am I missing something?

[Phred]

I cannot in GOOD conscience vote for either party.

 

And I cannot in GOOD conscience abstain from voting.

The last eight years have seen this country invade another country under false pretenses. It's seen us seek to torture people under the law and in violation of the Geneva convention. It's seen us thumb our noses at the international community and say, basically, "screw you, you can't do anything about it even if you wanted to." So they sat back and watched as we did what we wanted and are now paying for it with nobody to help ease the pain. Oh, and the cost is being borne by credit. Bonds bought by China and Saudi Arabia. Since no taxes can ever be raised there will be no real understanding of what we've gotten into. The last eight years have seen the administration be wrong time and time again only to finally be right about the "surge" and pretend that they've never been wrong. Our housing market is the worst it's been since the great depression. Deregulated by this administration.

 

And here we listen to the Republican convention and they still pretend that the invasion of Iraq had something to do with 9/11. It didn't. They pretend that someone else screwed all this up. No one else did this... they did. A conservative Republican administration with a conservative Republican majority in both houses of congress until the 2006 election. Bush used his Veto just once in all the time he's been in office. On a stem-cell research bill.

 

If you're concerned with health care... let me ask you this... you trust the government to run a war don't you? Why not health care?

 

So tell me... if the 80% of Americans want change like the polls say they... you do. Why in the world would you vote for a conservative Republican again? At this point yes... elections drive me nuts but as far as I'm concerned Barack Obama's middle name is "I'm not Bush."

[PrairieAir]

YES!!!!!:ack2: I kinda just want to go up into the mountains away from everything until it is all over.

[cathmom]

Sorry - I did not mean to turn this into a health care argument! That's just my issue.

[TXMomof4]

It's more that I just don't fit into the nice, neat boxes the two major parties seem to expect.

 

But, yes, I do find every election season pretty painful. It doesn't make me sick so much as depressed. I get depressed that there doesn't seem to be anyone "in power" speaking for me. I get depressed that the majority of American voters don't seem to be capable of thinking their way out of a paper bag and that they choose a candidate to vote for based on such silly, superficial things.

 

An aside: I heard a report on the radio yesterday, one of those "person on the street reaction" pieces about Sarah Palin's speech. They interviewed one man who, prior to hearing Palin speak, was planning to vote Democratic. However, he liked Palin because she was "fiesty," and so has decided to vote Republican, instead.

 

Huh? Does this man even care about the issues? Does he have any clue what the candidates' positions are on various issues? How is it possible to make such a huge swing based on a single speech? And does he not realize that the whole speech (like most other such events) was scripted and coached and rehearsed?

 

It's enough to make a person feel truly despondent.

 

Maybe it's just that we're cynical enough to believe that little to nothing is actually accomplished in our government. I had a friend in college who was a democrat through and through. Very liberal democrat. But he voted for Bush instead of Clinton because the Dems controlled congress at that time. He said "I always vote for gridlock. Then nothing too bad can happen." Kind of scary, right? But I feel that way more and more.

[JennifersLost]

Phred, yeah - I could vote like that, for exactly the reasons you outlined. And in the end I will probably vote liberal because overall that's what the world needs.

 

But in doing so I will compromise many, many very important values, some of which set me far to the right of Obama (think small gov't, personal responsibility, cutting spending, gun rights, etc.) and some which place me far to the left of Obama (think gay marriage, etc.)

 

Let's take one example: Obama's big plan to create a "universal preschool" system that will cover children from "birth through college" scares the living daylights out of me. I worked in the childcare field. I saw all the maneuvers state run daycare facilities and their advocates used to take business away from individuals who run home daycares and concentrate it in the hands of the state. I spent time in those state run baby warehouses....that's not the kind of care babies should get, and the vitriol you hear from the teachers that come up through that system about how parents and home daycare providers lack the fundamental know-how to raise children. Ugh. Don't get me started.

 

And before someone gets really upset with me - I'm rushing and don't have the time to elaborate. All I know is that the state can't get schools for big kids "right". I don't want them getting a monopoly on daycare and preschool, either. They already spend huge amounts on failing schools. We don't need to spend huge amounts on failing preschools, too. If they want to support families, then cut taxes and provide education for older students and adults so that they can get decent jobs. Make it affordable for women to stay home during those first few years of their children's lives if they want to. And support other women who run small home daycares to care for the young children of mothers who choose or need to work. Babies do not need to be in institutions. They need small, family love and care.

 

This is just one issue and I'm explaining badly. My children are crowding the computer. Gotta go.....

[Mama Lynx]

Yep, pretty much, every election makes me ill.

[choirfarm]

[

[Robin Hood]

If you're concerned with health care... let me ask you this... you trust the government to run a war don't you? Why not health care? quote]

 

The thing I believe is that the government shouldn't be running health care. Intervention needs to take place with lawyers and insurance. Honestly, I haven't thought of any good solutions, but but like the idea of education being between parents and students, not the government; I think the idea of health care should be between patient and doctor, not the govenment, lawyers, or insurance companies.

[Jill- OK]

I don't know that I like the term moderate much anymore.

 

My *personal* definition is someone who is honestly in between two extremes on pretty much every issue (not using 'extremes' in a bad way...just as a definition of the two poles, politically).

 

I think sometimes people use it when they mean "I'm mostly liberal, but there are a few issues I'm conservative on", or vice versa. (I'm not questioning Jennifer's definition, or implying anything about her viewpoint...just musing). Being a moderate doesn't mean the same, to me, as being registered as an Independent voter.

 

And while many people probably *think* themselves to be 'moderate'...I don't consider you that if your ideas (that you believe to be moderate) line up with either end (conservative or liberal). That's not necessarily a bad thing...I'm just trying to clarify definitions.

 

I think we benefit from having liberals, conservatives, *and* moderates.

 

(Again...no real relation to Jennifer's post, and not assuming anything about how she reaches her own definition of 'moderate'...just wanted to voice thoughts about the subject)

[cathmom]

I have received government health care for most of my pregnancies, and only once did I receive sub-standard care. My children are on government health care and I choose their doctors and am perfectly satisfied with their care. So I don't have a problem with the idea of the government being involved in health care.

[Jenny in Atl]

 

I fit nowhere... in no party. Maybe I should become and Anarchist?

[laylamcb]

Feeling your pain here, Jennifer, big time. I consider myself a "crunchy" conservative, so I feel very frustrated and demoralized at election time, too. More than that, even cocktail party talk is tough: The liberals think I'm a fascist and the conservatives think I'm a communist. Gah! How can that be?! Can't we all just TALK about it?! Heeeeeelp meeeeeee!!!

 

Whew. Thanks so much for this little thread, Jennifer. Apparently I really needed to emote. Very cleansing. :D

[laylamcb]

 

I fit nowhere... in no party. Maybe I should become and Anarchist?

 

Jenny, I LOVE this picture. I'm in awe of you sometimes. You can be in my party, dahling--how does The Se*y Sweathogs grab you??

[KarenNC]

It's more that I just don't fit into the nice, neat boxes the two major parties seem to expect.

 

But, yes, I do find every election season pretty painful. It doesn't make me sick so much as depressed. I get depressed that there doesn't seem to be anyone "in power" speaking for me. I get depressed that the majority of American voters don't seem to be capable of thinking their way out of a paper bag and that they choose a candidate to vote for based on such silly, superficial things.

 

Agreed. From the letters to the editor in our paper lately, it appears that, for some voters at least, the presence or absence of a Y-chromosone is more important than the person's position on issues, experience or any other factor.

[Krista in LA]

 

I fit nowhere... in no party. Maybe I should become and Anarchist?

 

:lol: OMG he was my favorite Sweathog. :lol:

[Jenny in Florida]

Maybe it's just that we're cynical enough to believe that little to nothing is actually accomplished in our government. I had a friend in college who was a democrat through and through. Very liberal democrat. But he voted for Bush instead of Clinton because the Dems controlled congress at that time. He said "I always vote for gridlock. Then nothing too bad can happen." Kind of scary, right? But I feel that way more and more.

 

But, you see, the government does accomplish things, lots of things, just maybe not the things we hope they will. For example, the admistration currently in power started a war. That's not something most of us were probably thinking about when we voted, but it's certainly something the government "accomplished."

 

Likewise, I would argue that the current adminstration has "accomplished" a gradual but, for me at least, disturbing erosion of assorted constitutional rights I hold dear. (Okay, I know that there is no explicit right to privacy in the US Constitution, but I'm rather fond of that particular idea and unhappy about giving up ground.)

 

Presidents also appoint judges, which is a rather big "accomplishment" and has implications that last for many, many years.

 

So, I'm afraid I don't take a lot of comfort in that brand of cynicism.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sebastian (a lady), I agree. Most people say moderate but they mean something else.

 

I'm a Christian, homeschooling, military wife who is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. I'm a walking, talking contradiction in terms.

[FO4UR]

I have received government health care for most of my pregnancies, and only once did I receive sub-standard care. My children are on government health care and I choose their doctors and am perfectly satisfied with their care. So I don't have a problem with the idea of the government being involved in health care.

 

Medicaid nearly killed my 1st baby, ......that's a bit strong. I should say that the Dr I HAD to go to didn't want to take the time on a medicaid patient showing a few warning signs, and my ds nearly paid with his life.

 

He had an obvious problem with his umb. cord that should have been caught with an U/S.....but I'm sure that was too much paper work for such a busy doc.

Yes, I'm still bitter about it all:tongue_smilie: and NO NO NO, I do not want socialized health care. The rich will fly their family out of country (or pay docs under the table) to recieve life-saving treatment that you and I will wait.....and wait.....and wait.......oops, I guess the gov't won't have to pay for that one!:scared:

 

Besides, socializing healthcare only gives insurance co.s permission to be more naughty. If the gov't is footing a portion or all of the bill, there is no competition and that kleenex used in the hospital goes from $5 up to $10 (ridiculous to begin with for sure:glare:), but it's OK b/c you are not paying a premium. Well, at least you aren't writing a check to BCBS or Aetna, but I'm sure all that RED TAPE has to cost something....hmmm where does that $$ come from? Oh yeah, my paycheck! :blink:

 

Forgive my sarcasm..it's not directed at anyone personally on this board (unless you are the Doc who almost killed my baby LOL)..all this political talk just gives me the need to vent.....:tongue_smilie:

 

eta: sorry for the hijack......and yes I'll be happy when the political talk is over and I can focus on Thanksgiving and Christmas.....ahhhh

[Doran]

Send Jennifer some rep for me. Several of you, for that matter, cuz I'm so "loaded" :lol:. I can't believe I'm not allowed.

 

Jennifer, you captured my feelings well. I feel tormented by elections. I despise the rhetoric that spews from the mouths of our media spokespeople, our candidates, our bloggers, and my family, friends and neighbors (I'll PM you an example that came from my 56 year old brother which left me slack jawed) which so often monofocuses on a single issue or two without so much as grazing the surface of what I think really ails this country. But, I also feel quite cynical and have for years, because I've heard too many empty campaign promises that are never mentioned again once the person is elected, promises replaced instead by an apparently lopsided administration agenda or by relative inaction which may be the lesser evil.

 

If I keep typing, I'm just going to end up reiterating most of what you've already stated, so I'll simply say thank you for your post.

[WTMindy]

I am conservative and elections make me sick!!! I literally get a pit in my stomach at all the lies and bad mouthing (on both sides). I hate how we can't talk about issues. It is about spin and it is about who speaks better and hits peoples' emotions better. Blech!!!! I hate this season!!!! I even hate all the political arguments here on these boards.

[Storm Bay]

I hate elections. I feel like this every time. McCain/Palin take a stance on some issues that I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And Obama/Biden take a stance on other issues I would be willing to take up arms to defend my country against. And some of them are the same stance, LOL.

 

I cannot in GOOD conscience vote for either party.

 

And I cannot in GOOD conscience abstain from voting.

 

In either case, whichever side I vote for, I will be making a decision which supports some "broader" cause that I feel strongly about at the expense of a more "personal" cause which is right next to my heart.

 

The whole exercise is making me feel like throwing up. Whatever I do I'm going to be betraying my conscience.

 

 

I'm answering this before I read the replies (which I will read. ) I'm not sure what a "moderate" is, but I do know that I am in the same quandary as far as not being able to vote for either in good conscious, and not being able to abstain in good conscience. There hasn't been one Amercian election I've voted in where I've actually voted for someone I respected and agreed with, just hated and disagreed with less. The exception was this year's primary, where I agreed with the majority of the person's positions, particularly in some of the most important ones to me, but not in all.

 

 

What bothers me is that they have the same stances on some of the most important positions, IMO, such as global economy for one. What bothers me is that Obama changes his position and McCain isn't always clear on just what his positions are. I'm going to go back and re-evaluate what each of them has written and said and vote for whichever one has the fewest things I vehemently disagree on, I think. What bothers me also is that when McCain discussed educational choice he didn't mention homeschooling. However, neither of them had a written stance on homeschooling on their websites when I looked way back when during the primaries, but I would never make that my only issue. What bothers me is that politics is evidently so corrupt and compromising, and I mean on both sides of the border, and no president can change everything, either, because while they do they have veto power, the supreme court can overturn that veto if they choose to, although that doesn't generally happen, and they do have voters to think of.

 

While I like the idea that there are people up there who are not professional politicians (Obama & Palin), I can't say that I like anyone at all except Palin, and she's not running for President, and I can't say that I agree with all her policies, either. Besides, you can't vote just based on the VP.

 

I wouldn't call myself a moderate because I'm not a moderate on all issues. I passionately despise the UN, for example (I'm sure many people would disagree.) I'm strongly oppossed to the global economy, which both Obama and McCain support (or did on their websites when I checked during the primaries.) I'm not against all trade, but I have economic and environmental reasons for hating the global economy.

 

The nice thing is that neither candidate gives me the strong creeps when I watch them, as some of othe past presidential candidates have. While I'd love to see a black man or a woman as president or vice president, I would never, never, never vote someone in just for that reason any more than I would vote for someone just because they were a POW who didn't give in and get an early release for the sake of propoganda.

 

What to do, what to do, yet do something I must.

[Renee in NC]

Before now, I would have told you I was a staunch Republican. However, I just can't reconcile my ideas if social justice with the Republican stance.

 

I would prefer a local charity system that held people accountable, offered true help for the problems (rather than the symptoms), tailored the help to the needs of each individual family, and offered a hand-up more than a hand-out.

 

I don't have a lot of faith in individuals making a difference anymore. People on this very site have said over and over how the poor are poor because of their bad decisions and they just need to suck it up. If people make mistakes, they need to deal with them. Never mind the children who can't change their circumstances. On this very board, this has been applied to school supplies, food, health care, and housing.

 

People seem to ignore the factors that lead to poverty that go well beyond a choice to have premarital relations, or making bad purchasing decisions, or anything else that gets slung around.

 

I never knew that poverty was a moral failing until now. And I *never* thought I would ever even contemplate voting for a Democrat. EVER.

[Storm Bay]

 

I fit nowhere... in no party. Maybe I should become and Anarchist?

 

Hmmm--are you an educational anarchist, too? I got quite a laugh out of my t-shirt today (not the first--one was from a former school librarian.) Who was it that designed those shirts.

 

Yes, this is an aside. If I thought we could have a successful society with anarchy, I'd be all for it, but, of course, I'm convinced it would be chaos, confusion and nothing but trouble in the end (I know you were joking, but I'm feeling really grumpy about politics right now.)

[JennifersLost]

This has been such a great discussion so far.

 

One thing I'll add to the mix is I hate it that politicians are constrained by the need to talk in sound bytes. There are some topics that are so charged that we can't talk about nuances. Actually, many topics.

 

If some candidate DOES say, "Well - that's a difficult topic and there may be a need for different answers at different times," well then that candidate is toast.

 

Life is so much more complicated than that, you know?

 

Another thing that we can't talk about is that while we all want to make life better for as many people as we can, it's not going to be perfect for everyone. We can't talk about the fact that if we provided comprehensive health care - did everything possible for EVERYONE - we'd all go broke. We can't say that some people are never going to quit drinking. If we talk about abortion we can't discuss how getting pregnant can, in some cases, ruin a woman's life but a man can always just walk away with little or no consequences.

 

We can't talk about how sometimes prosecuting crime costs more than the cost of the crime itself. We can't talk about whether it's right to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a procedure for an elderly person that might extend their life but in reality just adds time to their suffering.

 

Sometimes the Republicans seem a little more "reality-based", with "common sense". But it seems to come at the expense of compassion.

 

The Democrats have compassion....for everyone and everything, and thus not enough hard-nosed pragmatism to make the hard choices.

 

And that would be okay as long as we could talk about it openly, but....there are too many sacred cows getting in the way.

 

I'm spinning!

[Mrs Mungo]

I wouldn't call myself a moderate because I'm not a moderate on all issues. I passionately despise the UN, for example (I'm sure many people would disagree.) I'm strongly oppossed to the global economy, which both Obama and McCain support (or did on their websites when I checked during the primaries.) I'm not against all trade, but I have economic and environmental reasons for hating the global economy.

 

Oh, I think hating the global economy is one of the few things labor-Democrats and the Christian right have in common. :D

[funschooler5]

I feel the same way. Neither party fits all of my views. Every four years when I watch footage of the conventions and I see all the people in the audience jumping up and down waving their signs, it just bothers me. I don't see how anyone can agree with every single thing their political party says/does.

 

I do have to say that health care is my number one concern right now. We can't afford insurance right now (we pay our doctor and our hospital monthly payments). And when we did have private health insurance (we're self-employed) they raised our rates three times in six months, AND they didn't ever cover any of the things we needed (check-ups, test for my daughter, etc.). It just infuriated me that we were paying high monthly premiums AND we still owed a ton to our doctor and the hospital. I'm almost to the point now that even if we could afford health insurance I wouldn't get it just out of principle.

 

I have no idea what can be done about the health insurance problem in our country, but in my opinion it couldn't get any worse. I'm going to vote for the candidate that sounds like they might actually do something about this situation.

[funschooler5]

The nice thing is that neither candidate gives me the strong creeps when I watch them, as some of othe past presidential candidates have.

 

:iagree: Although both VP candidates give me the creeps this time around. Maybe because they have to be the "bad guys" so the presidential candidates look better? I don't know...but I genuinely like both Obama and McCain.

[Crissy]

If you are a moderate, does every election make you sick?

 

 

 

No. I do my best to educate myself on the candidates, their records and the issues. I cast my vote and know that beyond that, I have little control.

 

The one thing that really irritates me in an election year are these 'rock the vote' type campaigns. The ones that encourage young people to just go mark a ballot. Without knowing much, if anything, about who and what they're actually voting for. :glare:

[Tutor]

Yup... pretty much. :)

 

I could have written your post. I love to debate and discuss political philosophy but cringe when it comes to party politics. It's way too reminiscent of the evil side of high school for me. :)

[Cricket]

If you're concerned with health care... let me ask you this... you trust the government to run a war don't you? Why not health care?

 

I trust the government to kill people and break things and create general mayhem far more than I trust them to fix things. ;)

[Jenny in Atl]

I agreed some much I double posted!

[Jenny in Atl]

I trust the government to kill people and break things and create general mayhem far more than I trust them to fix things. ;)

 

:iagree:

 

So why do we keep voting them into office?!? :lol:

[Storm Bay]

:iagree:

 

So why do we keep voting them into office?!? :lol:

 

Because if we don't vote, we'd lose the right to vote? I really think the press is a major influence in politics now, with who they cover, and who they choose to ignore. It seems that the same people get ignored most places, and I don't think that's right. I mean back at the primary level, for both the "big" parties and the others. Stop covering only the "favourites" or the "most likely to win." What would happen if there was equal press on all of them back then? Including the NPR, who ignores, too.

 

See, here in the States it seems written in stone that it's going to be a Republican or a Democratic. I've seen whole parties turned around when I lived in Canada and new ones come up front, even though sometimes it seemed a 2-3 party system. Also, one totally devasted in BC that had been a big power for a long, long time. Why not in the States?