Palin's speech was....

[TN Mama]

I am appalled that Sarah Palin would ridicule Barack Obama for being a community organizer. The Republican party is constantly harping on people to use their bootstraps and not rely on the government to take care of them, yet that party's VP nominee actually ridiculed someone for trying to help people do just that. Community organizers help people organize to get their needs met. Palin's ridicule is unprofessional and cruel, contradictory to what her party claims it wants from people, and, imo, is indicative of an underlying attitude that the Republican party has about poor people.

 

Tara

 

Did that not come after the initial statement from the Obama camp attacked Palin's inexperience, calling her as a former mayor (of a small town)- not as a current governor of her state?

 

Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency," said Obama spox Bill Burton. "Gov. Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil, and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."

[TN Mama]

This was my take on the "community organizer' thing...

 

Guess I should have kept reading...

[Mrs Mungo]

Can someone explain to me WHY we or the media or even the candidates themselves keep drawing comparisons between Obama and Palin? She is NOT the one running for president for goodness sake!

 

The media? It was PALIN who said the things being discussed here. HER comparison of her experience to that of Obama's is what is being discussed. And it IS legitimate to compare her experience when the Presidential candidate is the oldest candidate EVER. By all means, compare the experience of the presidential candidates as well, keeping in mind Abraham Lincoln was considered one of the best presidents in history and was one of the less experienced while Buchanan was one of the most experienced and is considered the second worst president in history. Experience is not all that makes a good president.

 

If you owned a business, and your profit margin began closing, would you immediately cut the salaries of the top earners? Would you fire people? Or, would you look for leakage, find ways to cut out wasted spending, etc? Now, the guy who plays Free Cell all day on his computer when he's supposed to be making sales calls -- the guy who gets a car allowance for the sales calls he's supposed to make -- he's getting canned.

 

Then, you find our you're running three ads in different yellow pages, so you cut that because you only get a couple of calls a year from phone books anyway.

 

You find out your secretary is making trips to the office store once a week and is gone for one hour each time. Since you have to pay her wages while she's there and mileage, you have her order from Staples online once a month -- and you get free shipping that way.

 

Comparing the experience of running a small business is a JOKE when compared to big businesses. They certainly do not run their companies the way you run your own. My father worked for a company for 30 years. As older executives retired younger executives took their place. Those young executives purchased SIX corporate jets (which the company had never owned before), boxes at all the local sporting stadiums and plenty of other cushy perks for themselves. Oh, too bad, then they couldn't afford all the union workers upon whose backs the business was built. Lucky for them the state went "right to work" and the company was able to move their warehouse 30 miles away and fire all of those guys. They told them they were welcome to apply again but then told them they didn't have enough references since they had only worked for the one company for the last 25+ years. It was *disgusting*. So, when your husband has several corporate jets you can come talk to me about how he decides to run his business.

 

Are these situations you actually encounter when you volunteer? What ever happened to just taking your kids to the library, letting them browse through the children's section and pick out a few books. Does this really need to be made into a science? Most libraries have lists of award-winning books, most school teachers would be glad to give recommendations. You can also get the AR reading lists from school.

 

Does a person actually need to be told that to improve literacy, they should read?

 

A person who is functionally illiterate or doesn't speak English doesn't have much hope of making those decisions all on their own. Welathy areas can afford it but I guess you're suggesting they *deserve it* while the poor areas don't?

 

You have to manage a business so that you have to make a profit when it's all said and done, and yes, price increases are sometimes necessary, but we also operate under the ethics that we try to make wise spending decisions.

 

Ah, see, too bad most US corporations don't have those kind of ethics. Most of them do not subscribe to the same beliefs.

 

Obviously, this country is going deeper and deeper into debt and I don't agree that the answer is to make those making more money pay more. This country is living beyond its means.

 

Absolutely true. But I don't think libraries and schools is where you start cutting. I know WAY too much about government contractors and pork barrel spending to think that for a hot second. My husband is a logistician. He's often *required by Congressional law* to buy from particular companies even when those companies are charging $5/bolt for bolts he could buy at Home Depot for $5/10 gallon bucket.

 

BTW, it's always the huge companies that nickel and dime us wanting discounted rates.;)

 

EXACTLY! It's *also* those large companies giving themselves perks, screwing over their workers, using tax shelters to their advantage, etc.

 

I know of many organizations (4-H, Civil Air Patrol, churches who offer activities for children such as summer camps, etc.) who offer scholarships for their programs and activities based purely on need.

 

What have CAP (a program partially funded by federal dollars, I'm not sure whether you're aware of that) or church camps got to do with *private schools*??

 

I think it is possible, I venture to say even likely, that businesses would be willing to support that notion as well. It certainly is in their interest to do so - they are the ones who will have to deal with these children when they grow up and enter the workforce. If they aren't so heavily taxed by the feds they can offer more financial support to education endeavors.

 

Why do you consider it likely? Do lots of private schools offer scholarships funded by businesses now? Don't businesses currently have the same stake in the future of our young?

 

We talk about how we will get better service when cable companies are made to compete; why won't that happen with schools?

 

Getting cheaper cable and getting *better schools* are two very different things. Wouldn't they have to be more heavily regulated? Aren't most of us *against* more regulation for private schools?

 

Her comment had to do with the fact that as a Senator for 8 years, this was the sum total of his legacy.

 

But it's not the sum total of his legacy. For her to imply that is the sum total of his legacy is disingenuous at *best*.

 

As I said in a previous post on this thread, her comment was not criticizing or demeaning the job of a community organizer. She was merely pointing out that having community organizer on your resume does not qualify you to run the country. It is about his level of experience, not about the worthiness of the job of community organizer in society.

 

Disagree. She *was* absolutely intending it as a slight. Community organizers and volunteers have *plenty* of responsibilities. One of the jobs I used to volunteer for the government has since made a paying job that pays $60K/year.

 

Again, the democrats calculated to attack her through the media all week. What was she supposed to do? Imagine the tables turned. Do you think the dems wouldn't have felt a need to set the record straight? C'mon, can we try to get real here for a minute or two. It was the RNC for crying out loud.

 

EXACTLY my point. It was the RNC. That isn't the stuff you should then expect to parrot in a mixed environment and expect everyone to cheer or nod their heads in agreement.

 

And why must this incessant claim that she was attacking the position of community organizer keep coming up. She was merely pointing out that that job title lacks executive experience. This was in RESPONSE to the dems harping on her "little town mayor" job, which is an executive position. Can we at least settle this one???????

 

Again, at the time he was a community organizer she was a beauty queen, talk about lack of experience.

 

But, PLEASE, can we please, please, please stop saying she criticized community organizers? PLEASE???? AAAAcccccccckkkkkkk!!!!!!!!! (Please see my previous posts on this. I can't type it again. Finger cramps.:D

 

You can disagree with my perception until your fingers fall off. That doesn't make me wrong or you right. Different people have different lives, experiences, etc and they *will* perceive things differently.

 

Well, it's not like the democrats control the media in a "they're getting paid by the DNC to smear the Republicans" kind of way. It's more like they control the media (the liberal media, that is) because they are ALL Democrats. What else are Democrats going to say about Republicans? They certainly aren't going to praise them and call attention to all their worthy accomplishments.

 

As I said before, for every Keith Olbermann there is a Bill O'Reilly. There are as many Republican pundits as there are Democratic pundits.

 

And she wasn't attacking the responsibilities of community organizers. Check the definition of "responsibility" (I think I'm in a repeating nightmare:D) - she was saying that a community organizer's job description is not an executive, "take the fall for anything that goes wrong," kind of position. Being a mayor is.

 

And I disagree with that notion.

 

She meant actual accountability not actual tasks to accomplish. So yes, she did say what she meant.:D

 

Are you suggesting volunteers never have accountability? Because that is no more true than suggesting they have no tasks to accomplish.

[Debbie in OR]

Did that not come after the initial statement from the Obama camp attacked Palin's inexperience, calling her as a former mayor (of a small town)- not as a current governor of her state?

 

Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency," said Obama spox Bill Burton. "Gov. Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil, and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."

 

Yes...that is true. Also, Palin and her husband are both union members, born (and chose to stay in) small town America. Regardless of how you feel about unions, elitism does not come to mind. To me, that speaks of All-American-She's-One-Of-Us.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Yup! On Brett Hume's show and Media Watch both have some really good ones.

 

Don't forget this guy

[LG Gone Wild]

Yup! On Brett Hume's show and Media Watch both have some really good ones. Fox is not the total evil doer many like to make it out to be. Same with PBS. Both sides are so busy hating each other, they don't really listen.

 

:iagree:

 

LOVE Juan Williams. He is so cute. Haven't figured out Mort yet. Neil Gabler is okay although he gets unhinged at times. I particularly enjoy his rants about media being not so much as liberal as LAZY.

 

I used to enjoy Colmes (in fact, I prefer him to Hannity) but he's developed this annoying habit of talking under his breath.

[Jenny in Atl]

Hey, Jenny - thanks for all that info on news sources. I'll check into that. Fwiw, I don't remember mentioning anything about a conspiracy - I know I used the word controlled and I think I clarified what I meant by that later.

 

If a room is full of Democrats I don't expect them to be singing the praises of Republicans. I think the newsrooms of cable tv (by and large - not all, I'll grant you that) are filled with Democrats. There are tons of movie and tv personalities, including dear Oprah, who don't mind sharing their liberal perspectives whenever the opportunity arises as well. If they are on tv or any other screen, I consider that the media - it doesn't have to be a bona fide news outlet. That's really all I meant.

 

In the end though... the media works for a living, it's show biz. If Americans really did not like what they saw, then why don't they change the channel or shut it off. CNN and MSNBC both added conservative talking heads to their line-ups in reaction to Fox's rating numbers. Fans of Oprah have stopped watching because they are upset with her promotion of Obama. In the end the consumer has the power to choose what to watch, read, or listen to. So the idea of control is rather fluid. It's the viewer who really has the control, but is often too uneducated to know.

[Jenny in Atl]

Don't forget this guy

 

Not a fan... sorry.

:leaving:

[Nestof3]

A person who is functionally illiterate or doesn't speak English doesn't have much hope of making those decisions all on their own. Welathy areas can afford it but I guess you're suggesting they *deserve it* while the poor areas don't?

 

 

Do they not teach English in schools where the poor attend? What language are they teaching? I learned English from my parents before I learned it in school, and if we had moved to a country whose primary language was something else, we would have learned it so that we could function in society.

 

Am I really to believe that poor people are not given an education in the public school system? Are teachers just ignoring them? Do they send them to other rooms to sleep while the wealthy are taught? Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

My parents never took me to a library. My parents never helped me with homework. I paid attention in school and did the work.

 

I never said public libraries should be cut from spending -- I said it's not a federal concern. It's a local concern.

[Nestof3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestof3

There is a possibility, though, that these adults are functioning fine and know all they need to know. I don't think people have to be bookish.

 

I still think the problem is with home life and NOT the educational system. The reason no one has found the solution is because the government cannot fix the family.

 

What a funny argument to make on a Classical homeschooling board!

 

 

I DON'T think people HAVE to be bookish. I choose to be, and I choose that for my children, but I do not look down upon people who don't enjoy reading. My mother has never read a book since she graduated from high school, but she has quite a few amazing gifts and talents. My 8 year old uses words she doesn't understand the meaning of. She speaks with double negatives all the time.

 

Functioning in society and being a bibliophile are two different things.

[Elaine]

And I thought it could not get any worse....

 

 

 

:banghead:

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/999456/sarah_palin_plain_and_short_for_women.html?cat=9

 

Thas may come as a shock to you :001_smile: but not everyone believes in global warning.

[Mrs Mungo]

Do they not teach English in schools where the poor attend? What language are they teaching? I learned English from my parents before I learned it in school, and if we had moved to a country whose primary language was something else, we would have learned it so that we could function in society.

 

I lived in Germany for 5 years. I never became fluent in German, I learned enough German to get by. I mostly lived in an American community within Germany. Many first generation immigrants do not become fluent in English because they live in their own communities and they don't *have* to become fluent to function within their society. Their children go to school and *do* become fluent in English. However, if the parents are not fluent then how are they going to tell quality literature from junk? Those students are at a disadvantage. Libraries and well-educated, motivated librarians are an *equalizer* that help those students rise up from their beginnings.

 

Am I really to believe that poor people are not given an education in the public school system? Are teachers just ignoring them? Do they send them to other rooms to sleep while the wealthy are taught? Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

My parents never took me to a library. My parents never helped me with homework. I paid attention in school and did the work.

 

Go read the book Savage Inequalities by Jonathan Kozol. Go visit an inner city school. Open your eyes to the fact that *your* experience isn't the *only* experience.

[Jenny in Atl]

Do they not teach English in schools where the poor attend? What language are they teaching? I learned English from my parents before I learned it in school, and if we had moved to a country whose primary language was something else, we would have learned it so that we could function in society.

 

Am I really to believe that poor people are not given an education in the public school system? Are teachers just ignoring them? Do they send them to other rooms to sleep while the wealthy are taught? Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

My parents never took me to a library. My parents never helped me with homework. I paid attention in school and did the work.

 

I never said public libraries should be cut from spending -- I said it's not a federal concern. It's a local concern.

 

It might be an eye opener for you to visit some schools in rural Western Virginia, Mississippi, or even Alaska. You see so much about the urban poor, but most of the truly poor and uneducated are in the country. I had not see real poverty (even while living in NYC) till I visited rural Mississippi and New Mexico. I might as well have been in a third world country. Not all public schools are alike, not even close. Even where I live (best in the state... not saying much) the schools on one side of the county are nothing like the other. I hate the PS system, and would love to start again from scratch. Many are not even meeting the basic needs of our kids. Like it or not, these are the teaming masses that our kids will have to work with, live with, and survive with in an ever shrinking world. If they can't read, are unhealthy, and angry.. I fear far more of an enemy form within that any we may face from the outside.

[Jenny in Atl]

Thas may come as a shock to you :001_smile: but not everyone believes in global warning.

 

I'm not sold on global warming.. but neither am I sold on shooting wolves from helicopters. :lol:

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Am I really to believe that poor people are not given an education in the public school system? Are teachers just ignoring them? Do they send them to other rooms to sleep while the wealthy are taught? Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

Yes, the poor are given homework assignments. When mom is lying in bed dying of AIDS, or mom and dad are drunk or high, or mom is so dead tired from working 3 jobs just to pay the bills, often those homework assignments do not get done.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Thas may come as a shock to you :001_smile: but not everyone believes in global warning.

 

And apparently some believe that it is productive to SUE the government for putting Polar Bears on the endangered list? :confused:

[Elaine]

I'm not sold on global warming.. but neither am I sold on shooting wolves from helicopters. :lol:

 

Aww, c'mon Jenny! You haven't lived until you've shot a wolf from helicopter.:lol:

[Elaine]

And apparently some believe that it is productive to SUE the government for putting Polar Bears on the endangered list? :confused:

 

I live in North Carolina. I cannot begin to understand the politics of polar bears in Alaska. I am sure that there is more to that story than meets the eye.

[Jami]

 

 

Go read the book Savage Inequalities by Jonathan Kozol. Go visit an inner city school. Open your eyes to the fact that *your* experience isn't the *only* experience.

 

I have to agree with Mrs. Mungo here. There are schools in America where even if the teacher is motivated and creative, there is so much chaos, lack of resources, lack of parental support and administrative corruption or at the very least apathy that for even a motivated child it will be a challenge to get a solid education. I've lived in St. Louis City, where the public schools are so poorly managed the state stepped in and removed control from the board. I've had friends who loved children and teaching try and be effective teachers in such schools only to be abused by students, challenged continually by parents, and left out to dry by their administrators. It's a mess. And sometimes community resources like the public library, tutoring programs (some faith-based) do help a few students not get completely swallowed up.

 

But I completely and thoroughly disagree with the NEA that pouring more money into the system will make the difference, it's a broken, ineffective system. Something as large as public education just cannot be managed well at the federal level. I'm not sure what the solution is, in some cities, public charter schools which have funding and management from different sources than the general school board seem to do well. And of course, as most of us realize, the deal breaker is almost always the level of parental involvement. And I just don't know how parents can be motivated to be involved in their children's educations, particularly if they themselves are the products of the same failed systems and don't know what their children *should* be learning. But a gov't that encourages parents to hand their children over at earlier and earlier ages and just expect them to come out educated at the other end isn't helping change things, I don't think. I think programs like Parents as Teachers could be worth looking into, beyond infant and toddler programs. Equip parents to know what to expect from their local schools and teachers maybe.

 

And pray for more Marva Collins' types opening small private schools that believe that children in poor neighborhoods are humans worthy of the best education.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have to agree with Mrs. Mungo here. There are schools in America where even if the teacher is motivated and creative, there is so much chaos, lack of resources, lack of parental support and administrative corruption or at the very least apathy that for even a motivated child it will be a challenge to get a solid education. I've lived in St. Louis City, where the public schools are so poorly managed the state stepped in and removed control from the board. I've had friends who loved children and teaching try and be effective teachers in such schools only to be abused by students, challenged continually by parents, and left to dry by their administrators. It's a mess. And sometimes community resources like the public library, tutoring programs (some faith-based) do help a few students not get completely swallowed up.

 

But I completely and thoroughly disagree with the NEA that pouring more money into the system will make the difference, it's a broken, ineffective system. Something as large as public education just cannot be managed well at the federal level. I'm not sure what the solution is, in some cities, public charter schools which have funding and management from different sources than the general school board seem to do well. And of course, as most of us realize, the deal breaker is almost always the level of parental involvement. And I just don't know how parents can be motivated to be involved in their children's educations, particularly if they themselves are the products of the same failed systems and don't know what their children *should* be learning. But a gov't that encourages parents to hand their children over at earlier and earlier ages and just expect them to come out educated at the other end isn't helping change things, I don't think. I think programs like Parents as Teachers could be worth looking into, beyond infant and toddler programs. Equip parents to know what to expect from their local schools and teachers maybe.

 

And pray for more Marva Collins' types opening small private schools that believe that children in poor neighborhoods are humans worthy of the best education.

 

Oh, I agree with you. I don't think that pouring more money into the system is necessarily the answer. If it were up to *me* I would scrap the ENTIRE thing, start over and come at it from an entirely different angle.

[hsmamainva]

Oh, I agree with you. I don't think that pouring more money into the system is necessarily the answer. If it were up to *me* I would scrap the ENTIRE thing, start over and come at it from an entirely different angle.

 

Oooo!! :hurray: I would love to hear your ideas and a potential platform!!!

 

I hearby nominate Mrs. Mungo to be the new Secretary of Education!

 

(Campaign buttons and bumperstickers will soon be available in the lobby)

 

:D

[my4boysmom]

Hubby and I loved it.....

 

It was astounding....:party:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Jami]

Oh, I agree with you. I don't think that pouring more money into the system is necessarily the answer. If it were up to *me* I would scrap the ENTIRE thing, start over and come at it from an entirely different angle.

 

 

Sounds good to me! I think we (Americans) have to realize that the public school model that works in places like Germany or Finland or Japan just isn't going to work here. Too many people, too large an area, too much freedom desired by our parents and students to determine their futures. Same thing with a national healthcare system. I know there are other countries that seem to do a pretty good job with universal public education and healthcare (Sweeden, Switzerland and the others I mentioned above) but they also have to have a much larger percentage of taxed income and the population and geographic size has to be taken into account. So we have to do something creative and innovative here. OR let individual states have more freedom and authority to develop distinct programs that can be managed well on a smaller scale.

[TammyinTN]

I finally got to listen to it...she did an awesome job! :D

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I think one of the main things we can do to improve education in this country is to make a high school diploma mean something again. Yes, college needs to be more affordable and more accessible, but a young adult should be able to graduate from high school and work to save enough money to buy a starter home, put food on the table, and pay the bills.

 

Vocational education needs to be available to every child in America starting at age 12 IMHO.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Scouting can be quite expensive but 4H is a state program and varies greatly. In our state 4H is free and the clubs go to the schools as part of the school day. I think Tennessee's 4H program is a great model of how this program can be made accessible to a large population. It's growth is hampered only by overworked agents (which can be alievated by more volunteerism from community) and schools that won't let 4H come in (probably because 4H does nothing to help with standardized test scores and isn't that what matters the most these days?).

In the last school I taught, 4-H didn't come in. However, even when it did when I was a kid, I was very limited in what I could do. The true involvement was outside the school. The parents had to provide transportation, pay for projects, etc. For kids like me, doing anything outside of attending the monthly school meetings wasn't an option. As a result, I would not have been eligible for any type of 4-H scholarship. (Fortunately, I was able to get a full academic scholarship, but obviously not all kids are able to do so.)

[ceg]

If the war in Iraq is "God's task" as Palin put it, I don't want her anywhere near foreign policy. We really don't need a repeat of the Crusades or the Inquisition.

 

Her speech is scary because she reveals herself to be an empty ideologue, willing to say whatever the speechmakers put before her to brown nose with the far, far right.

 

The sudden republican "compassion" for teen mothers and working mothers (we used to be the source of all criminal activity in the US, now we are "experienced") is nothing but plain old self interest.

 

Her speech? Blechhhhh.

[Kathleen in VA]

I think one of the main things we can do to improve education in this country is to make a high school diploma mean something again. Yes, college needs to be more affordable and more accessible, but a young adult should be able to graduate from high school and work to save enough money to buy a starter home, put food on the table, and pay the bills.

 

Vocational education needs to be available to every child in America starting at age 12 IMHO.

 

:iagree: Even though I'm not sure how to pull it off.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

My parents never took me to a library.

Yes, in some areas they're given homework assignments, often requiring that they go to the library or assuming that they have internet access.

 

 

My parents never helped me with homework. I paid attention in school and did the work.

You were fortunate, as was I. We were capable of doing that and didn't need extra help. Sadly, that's not the case for many. Teachers and schools can only do so much.

[JudyJudyJudy]

It might be an eye opener for you to visit some schools in rural Western Virginia, Mississippi, or even Alaska. You see so much about the urban poor, but most of the truly poor and uneducated are in the country. I had not see real poverty (even while living in NYC) till I visited rural Mississippi and New Mexico. I might as well have been in a third world country. Not all public schools are alike, not even close. Even where I live (best in the state... not saying much) the schools on one side of the county are nothing like the other. I hate the PS system, and would love to start again from scratch. Many are not even meeting the basic needs of our kids. Like it or not, these are the teaming masses that our kids will have to work with, live with, and survive with in an ever shrinking world. If they can't read, are unhealthy, and angry.. I fear far more of an enemy form within that any we may face from the outside.

Exactly. Add some rural areas of S. GA to the list. Not only are the schools in such areas lacking, but getting teachers can sometimes be a problem as well. The poor rural school systems don't pay well since they usually can't afford to pay over what the state provides.

[JudyJudyJudy]

I think one of the main things we can do to improve education in this country is to make a high school diploma mean something again. Yes, college needs to be more affordable and more accessible, but a young adult should be able to graduate from high school and work to save enough money to buy a starter home, put food on the table, and pay the bills.

 

Vocational education needs to be available to every child in America starting at age 12 IMHO.

 

I was criticized as a teacher for saying this, but I strongly believe it. The fact is that not everyone can or should go to college. Even if everyone could afford it, it's simply not for everyone, and it's not even practical for the economy. I think it's sad that kids who could truly do something in a nonacademic field end up dropping out of school because they can't cut it in the academic subjects. How do states like Georgia handle the problem? They require MORE academic subjects in order to graduate.

[Elaine]

 

The sudden republican "compassion" for teen mothers and working mothers (we used to be the source of all criminal activity in the US, now we are "experienced") is nothing but plain old self interest.

 

 

 

 

:confused: I have no idea what you are talking about here.

[Jenny in Atl]

:confused: I have no idea what you are talking about here.

 

Come on Elaine... O'Reilly was calling Jamie Lynn Spears' parents "pinheads" a few weeks ago, and now teenage pregnancy is a personal family matter?

[Mrs Mungo]

Thas may come as a shock to you :001_smile: but not everyone believes in global warning.

 

Do you mean not everyone believes that the earth is going through a warming trend or do you mean not everyone believes man is the cause? Or that you don't "believe in it" as explained by Al Gore?"

 

If it's the latter, OK, fine...I can respect that.

 

If it's the former? Well...that's another thread, entirely.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Come on Elaine... O'Reilly was calling Jamie Lynn Spears' parents "pinheads" a few weeks ago, and now teenage pregnancy is a personal family matter?

 

Here is the quote from Bill-O

"Now most teens are pinheads in some ways. But here the blame falls primarily on the parents of the girl, who obviously have little control over her or even over Britney Spears. Look at the way she behaves."

[Kelli in TN]

In the last school I taught, 4-H didn't come in. However, even when it did when I was a kid, I was very limited in what I could do. The true involvement was outside the school. The parents had to provide transportation, pay for projects, etc. For kids like me, doing anything outside of attending the monthly school meetings wasn't an option. As a result, I would not have been eligible for any type of 4-H scholarship. (Fortunately, I was able to get a full academic scholarship, but obviously not all kids are able to do so.)

 

Well, obviously 4H is not going to save the world.

 

What I was trying to say is that until such a time that the schools can be recreated into something better than they are now, community organizations ought to be reaching out to the schools and offering things like 4H, mentoring programs, etc. and if it were not for NCLB maybe the schools would be able to open their doors to these organizations more frequently because the standardized test score would not be the final answer to everything.

[Kelli in TN]

I think one of the main things we can do to improve education in this country is to make a high school diploma mean something again. Yes, college needs to be more affordable and more accessible, but a young adult should be able to graduate from high school and work to save enough money to buy a starter home, put food on the table, and pay the bills.

 

Vocational education needs to be available to every child in America starting at age 12 IMHO.

 

Shazam. Now if a bunch of homeschool moms can see this stuff why can't the educrats?

 

Not everyone is college material. And not everyone is ready for college at graduation, some people need to do something else for awhile.

 

My youngest may not be able to go to college, at least not a 4 year college. He still deserves to be able to make his own way in the world.

 

Vocational training and we need to stop shipping our factories overseas.

[Saille]

Do they not teach English in schools where the poor attend? What language are they teaching? I learned English from my parents before I learned it in school, and if we had moved to a country whose primary language was something else, we would have learned it so that we could function in society.

 

Am I really to believe that poor people are not given an education in the public school system? Are teachers just ignoring them? Do they send them to other rooms to sleep while the wealthy are taught? Are you telling me the poor are not given homework assignments?

 

My parents never took me to a library. My parents never helped me with homework. I paid attention in school and did the work.

 

I never said public libraries should be cut from spending -- I said it's not a federal concern. It's a local concern.

 

In my city school district, twenty-four languages are spoken. When I moved into the area and called to identify us as a homeschooling family, the Superintendent's secretary said, "Oh, you're moving into the district? Mostly, people just move out!" and then giggled like it was the funniest thing she'd ever heard.

 

YES, some teachers ignore students.

 

YES, some students sleep while others are taught. They don't even go to another room. They do it right there.

 

IEP testing accommodations have been abused for years to keep certain kids from dragging down testing scores.

 

Public schools are a dense bureaucracy, the result of so many mandates that we have interpenetrating layers of redundant administrators. As a nation, we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that the situation as it exists is primed to create millions of albatrosses for our kids to wear around their necks. I'm all about helping my neighbor, but I'd rather prevent a problem than solve one...and the money is there, IMO. It's mis-allocated, but it's there.

 

I can't think of a higher or more appropriate objective for a nation to have than an informed and engaged citizenry. There isn't a program in existence that couldn't be run more efficiently and affordably if the people it served were well-informed. THEN we could talk about smaller government.

 

A citizenry with the potential to self-educate should be a federal goal, IMO. And the library is a key tool for self-education. I think that's the core of our disagreement, but we're probably going to have to agree to disagree.

[Saille]

It might be an eye opener for you to visit some schools in rural Western Virginia, Mississippi, or even Alaska. You see so much about the urban poor, but most of the truly poor and uneducated are in the country. I had not see real poverty (even while living in NYC) till I visited rural Mississippi and New Mexico. I might as well have been in a third world country.

 

Like it or not, these are the teaming masses that our kids will have to work with, live with, and survive with in an ever shrinking world. If they can't read, are unhealthy, and angry.. I fear far more of an enemy form within that any we may face from the outside.

 

I think both these points bear repeating. I did some of my field experiences in a county that's often billed as the poorest in the nation, and those kids could try all they wanted, but when your science text is twenty years old, you can do all the homework and still get a poor education.

 

Also, unless we're going to degenerate into a nation of gated communities...and the rest of us, yep. How does finger-pointing actually fix the problem before our kids are stuck with the results?

[LG Gone Wild]

Come on Elaine... O'Reilly was calling Jamie Lynn Spears' parents "pinheads" a few weeks ago, and now teenage pregnancy is a personal family matter?

 

Well, actually she is imo.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,417282,00.html

 

Sorry if this link doesn't work. It's a non political story.

[Jenny in Atl]

Well, actually she is imo.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,417282,00.html

 

Sorry if this link doesn't work. It's a non political story.

 

Agreed, but I don't think you can call some parents pinheads cause their kids get pregnant and not say the same for others, just because you like their views. If you are being fair and balanced, both sets of parents failed their kids, just in different ways.

[Saille]

I was criticized as a teacher for saying this, but I strongly believe it. The fact is that not everyone can or should go to college. Even if everyone could afford it, it's simply not for everyone, and it's not even practical for the economy. I think it's sad that kids who could truly do something in a nonacademic field end up dropping out of school because they can't cut it in the academic subjects. How do states like Georgia handle the problem? They require MORE academic subjects in order to graduate.

 

Well, and maybe more Thomas Edisons would stay in school if they could do something with their hands. I know I lost a few high-risk kids because our schools cut back the arts and phys. ed. so much.

 

Also, craftspeople can earn as much as degreed professionals.

[LG Gone Wild]

Agreed, but I don't think you can call some parents pinheads cause their kids get pregnant and not say the same for others, just because you like their views. If you are being fair and balanced, both sets of parents failed their kids, just in different ways.

 

You know, I don't think that comment came from just that particular development in the Spears family. The Spears family had been in the news for awhile (I mean, it looked like Brittany was headed towards a suicide) and then this thing with younger dd...O'Reilly concludes mom is a pinhead.

 

In a related story, Brittany credits her dad for saving her life. :001_cool:

[Jenny in Atl]

You know, I don't think that comment came from just that particular development in the Spears family. The Spears family had been in the news for awhile (I mean, it looked like Brittany was headed towards a suicide) and then this thing with younger dd...O'Reilly concludes mom is a pinhead.

 

In a related story, Brittany credits her dad for saving her life. :001_cool:

 

I actually saw the show, and he said nothing about the families history... he got busted! And I also watched the first part of his interview with Obama. He was impressed. Said, "He's no wimp." :lol: Classic O'Rielly.

[LG Gone Wild]

I actually saw the show, and he said nothing about the families history... he got busted! And I also watched the first part of his interview with Obama. He was impressed. Said, "He's no wimp." :lol: Classic O'Rielly.

 

 

I know but he had done a lot of stories about the Spears family. It was a build up. The Spears pregnancy was just one more screw up of the mom. At least that is how I understood his story.

 

I didn't see the interview but I did catch that sound bite. I enjoyed his interview with Hillary. Don't know if I will see the Obama one. Perhaps I will just read the transcript.

[kokotg]

I was criticized as a teacher for saying this, but I strongly believe it. The fact is that not everyone can or should go to college. Even if everyone could afford it, it's simply not for everyone, and it's not even practical for the economy. I think it's sad that kids who could truly do something in a nonacademic field end up dropping out of school because they can't cut it in the academic subjects. How do states like Georgia handle the problem? They require MORE academic subjects in order to graduate.

 

My husband teaches high school math, and he says the same thing. I have mixed feelings, because I do think you have to be careful about deciding FOR kids that they're not "college material." But I do think ALL kids would benefit from learning a lot more practical, hands-on skills. DH taught a money management class a couple of years that was specifically for vocational track kids. And we both had the same thought--uhh, kids who are going to college don't need to learn how to manage their money?

[Narnian]

But, I just have to say, because it was so darn cute and dh and I couldn't stop laughing at the innocence of it, we loved watching her youngest daughter (Piper?) licking her palm to smooth down her baby brother's hair! So, so precious! LOL!! Did anyone else see that? We were watching the CBS network.

 

While I still don't care for John McCain (or Obama), I am thoroughly impressed with Sarah. Can't we just skip the men and elect her for President?

 

My hubby and I were chuckling at that too. Good thing he has such a loving big sister, or else that peach fuzz would be totally out of control. ;)

 

I wouldn't mind skipping McCain and electing Palin, myself. She's still a politician--despite the "hockey mom" angle--but seems to be less of a career politician than the others. (And she's got spunk to boot). While I certainly respect McCain for his military service to our country, I'm not excited about voting for him. At least having Palin on the ticket makes the '08 election more palatable.

[TeacherZee]

I was criticized as a teacher for saying this, but I strongly believe it. The fact is that not everyone can or should go to college. Even if everyone could afford it, it's simply not for everyone, and it's not even practical for the economy. I think it's sad that kids who could truly do something in a nonacademic field end up dropping out of school because they can't cut it in the academic subjects. How do states like Georgia handle the problem? They require MORE academic subjects in order to graduate.

 

Shazam. Now if a bunch of homeschool moms can see this stuff why can't the educrats?

 

Not everyone is college material. And not everyone is ready for college at graduation, some people need to do something else for awhile.

 

My youngest may not be able to go to college, at least not a 4 year college. He still deserves to be able to make his own way in the world.

 

Vocational training and we need to stop shipping our factories overseas.

 

I am going to start with a qualification: Sweden doesn't have a perfect system, far from it. One of the things I truly and profoundly disagree with the Swedish about is that they do not allow homeschooling. HOWEVER one thing they do offer is at high school level there is a great breath of vocational programs. There are still problems with them (a large portion of children do not qualify directly because they fail in core subjects in year 9) BUT it looks like the current parliamentary proposition will go far to remedy these problems. I think that there are parts of this system that you might find interesting.

[Debbie in OR]

It seems ironic. We have, on one hand, a group of people who recommend Planned Parenthood pass out condoms at high schools and insist that abortion remain available for the entire pregnancy and solely as the woman's choice. We must offer all these things because "kids will just do it anyway" and abstinence is ridiculous and impossible.

 

Then we have a woman who chose to deliver and cherish a special needs child and also supports her teenage daughter who "did it anyway" and got pregnant, to keep her in the family and integrate her boyfriend rather than saving face with an abortion or concealment. They're not going to make the child within pay the price for the teenage parents' foolishness...and they are paying a considerable price for being honest in the face of such public scrutiny.

 

IMHO, I find the latter set of choices a far better way of dealing with what are, of course, very difficult situations.

 

My thoughts exactly. The sanctity of all life is clearly something they truly value and don't just pay lip service to. It would be easier to "take care of" the situation. But they are doing the harder thing of taking responsibility for a bad choice and redeeming this for good.

 

"Watch a man (or woman!) when all is well and you'll see some of their character. Watch them in crisis and you'll see all of it."

[Renee in NC]

I think one of the main things we can do to improve education in this country is to make a high school diploma mean something again. Yes, college needs to be more affordable and more accessible, but a young adult should be able to graduate from high school and work to save enough money to buy a starter home, put food on the table, and pay the bills.

 

Vocational education needs to be available to every child in America starting at age 12 IMHO.

 

I agree! Not everyone is cut out for college.