2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I am thinking of abandoning all LA curricula this coming year and doing my own thing. That's a pretty intimidating idea for me but I'm wondering if I may like it better in the long run. We currently use LLATL. My DDs are in Yellow and Orange and I like it for the most part. I really love the idea of it - grammar, spelling, mechanics, writing, and more - all pulled from literature. I just feel like parts of LLATL could be done a bit better. I wish there was more writing. I would like more difficult, classic literature. Maybe have a book going constantly instead of just a Book Study four times a year. We could really use more time on some topics and more review on others. Some things I don't really see as necessary in a LA curriculum. (We cover things like reading a map in everyday life, for example.). I'm starting to think that some subjects - like writing -are better off taught without curriculum so that they can be individualized to each student. I'm not entirely confident that I can put together my own curriculum though. My mom didn't really "teach" us writing or grammar. We wrote a lot but there wasn't really much explicit writing instruction during my school years (there was much more for my younger siblings). I know basic grammar but not many of the finer details people talk about here. I think my writing is okay. I received good comments on my writing when I was taking college classes. But I wonder if I could really break it down and teach it to my own kids. I'm also not sure if I would be able to come up with a good plan and follow through with it. There are a lot of separate subjects to cover in LA. It's overwhelming. Is there a book that covers all the basics? Maybe like a history encyclopedia but for LA? I've read Ruth Beechick's The Three R's and found that helpful. I've heard that she has another book that is more detailed on teaching LA that I would like to check out. I know there have been many threads here on teaching writing and other LA subjects, and some about scope and sequences for all or most grades. I briefly read some of them thinking how awesome those parents were but that I would always just stick to a curriculum. Now I'm thinking I should have paid closer attention. Any advice for me? Curriculum that would fit what I'm looking for better than LLATL? Books I should read? Old threads here to check out? Success or failure stories from those of you who gone the DIY route? Our local homeschool convention is coming up in 3 weeks and I'm trying to get rough plans for next year put together before I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Read Charlotte Mason. Read SWB's WWE textbook. Study WTRT for yourself. Work through Our Mother Tongue. Get your hands on several different currics to compare and contrast. Your children will only benefit from your own self-education. As you grow, you will gain confidence in your DIY LA. One word of advice I can offer is to make your DIY stuff as open-and-go as possible. Have a plan, and have all the resources at hand to follow through with that plan. If you are making up copywork or work pages, have them all done before starting a term (6-12 weeks). Carve out time to *do* all of this. Carve out break time with no school and no planning...or you will burn out. There is a middle road. You can use separate currics for spelling and grammar, and then make your own lessons for literature and writing. It sounds like literature and writing are what you are truly unhappy with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I've had similar thoughts this year because I'm just not happy with how things are fitting my son, I've used a pick n choose combination of llatl yellow, cw primers, wwe2, rfwp's Aesop books... But I'm also not entirely sure what to do on my own! I basically want him ready for mct within the next 6-12 months. So I'm not too worried about covering grammar, I think we'llgo through Ruth heller's world of language books - living grammar! I'm assigning lots of reading. I might just continue to assign wwe using passages from his assigned reading, ditto spelling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I plan to check out the scope and sequence of a few la programs and see what bases I'd like to cover. Llatl has one in the back of their books I think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 If you want to continue LLATL style spelling, you might want to buy Kathryn Stout's Natural Speller. There is a good sized sample here. https://books.google.com/books?id=NIVvUpUTuFQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Kathryn+Stout%27s+Natural+Speller&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O2oeVYDVEseogwSC6YPIDw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Kathryn%20Stout's%20Natural%20Speller&f=false The author has two other books for reading and composition, but you might find other things that are more open and go. Or they might be exactly what you are looking for. The books are quite complete, but...for ME, a little TOO complete, so that I don't end out buckling down and focusing on the most important topics without getting distracted by all I COULD be doing. I personally need to set my sights low enough that I can actually meet my goals. https://books.google.com/books?id=qMlGt-CrozwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Kathryn+Stout%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yGoeVZuzMoaeNqL8gKAF&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=NZ_dhrFlEnUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Kathryn+Stout%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yGoeVZuzMoaeNqL8gKAF&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false There are also books for science, social studies, and math. The author sells eBook versions at her website. Delivery is not instant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Well, when I read through the "2nd grade thread" it seems like there are a lot of people using (or planning to use) English Lessons Through Literature. I've never lasted long when I've tried all-in-one stuff, but it ought to be perfect - classic literature, grammar, copywork, dictation, poetry, picture study, gentle literary analysis, copia exercises (these last two at the higher levels). It ought to be perfect, but after awhile I get tired of being told what to do so much. ha! Have you looked at it? It might be what you're looking for without re-inventing the wheel. Or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 That is how I teach my kids for the most part. I do use a spelling book and I do own a few books I really like that I incorporate at those stages (mostly just reading through parts and discussing). It has worked well for our family. Here is an old post where I describe the general sequence of progression I use with my kids: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/239259-bringing-karens-mention-of-essay-writing-to-a-new-thread/?p=2363522 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Thanks for linking that 8FillTheHeart! I remember reading those posts and being in awe, you sound so confident! That's where I fall down I guess, and rely too much on curriculum. I feel my own inadequacies sharply, I'm learning grammar formally for the first time in my life alongside my daughter. I was always intuitively good at LA, but teaching it is a steep learning curve. My daughter is similar to me in the way she picks up language arts skills, but my oldest son needs more explicit instruction. Can I ask, did you start off so confident? And, if so, how?! 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I went from the DIY route to LLATL. :lol: I felt like I wasn't prepared consistently enough to keep up with each child. I like that LLATL is open and go. I totally see what you are saying (and agree), but I feel like doing it consistently is better than my sporadic LA lessons were. I have added in a writing program for my oldest. She's using Wordsmith Apprentice which is published by the same company. We also incorporate some written narrations into history and science. We read together (or I assign them) additional books for history, have at least one family read aloud going, and plenty of free reading. That gives them much more than the 4 books that LLATL includes. If you choose to go your own route, some of my favorite materials were: --Spelling Wisdom (there are also free dictation books on Google Books) or you can find your own passages from their current books --McGuffey Readers--We've used these for reading aloud, copywork/dictation, grammar (although the grammar can be outdated) --Our Mother Tongue--This is a great guide to teach you! --The Bravewriter Lifestyle blog--lots of great ideas here! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Part of it is from having started in different times. Choices were limited. Part of it is from having a background in child development and education. I knew what to teach. And a huge part of it comes from being 99.9% stubborn. ;) I knew I could do better than ps classrooms. I read about a lot of different methodologies. I worked with my kids paying attention to what helped them achieve the greatest proficiency. It was really rather simple. Sitting and talking to them about writing was by far the superior approach. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Brave Writer can work this way. They sell all kinds of supplements that you can use, but The Writer's Jungle suggests routines and how to implement them for each stage and how to do it yourself - as well as why you should. The supplements are supposed to make it easier by picking the book and the copywork/dictation passages from it, laying out how to do your writing project a month, etc. However, the heart of it is supposed to be this routine that you do yourself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Brave Writer can work this way. They sell all kinds of supplements that you can use, but The Writer's Jungle suggests routines and how to implement them for each stage and how to do it yourself - as well as why you should. The supplements are supposed to make it easier by picking the book and the copywork/dictation passages from it, laying out how to do your writing project a month, etc. However, the heart of it is supposed to be this routine that you do yourself. I was going to suggest this as well. The Writer's Jungle has become an indispensible tool for me. And I love the Brave Writer Lifestyle tips on the author's website. Julie realy lays it all out there -- the how to's of copywork, dictation, writing projects, etc. that are the backbone of writing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Part of it is from having started in different times. Choices were limited. :iagree: I didn't have 1/10 of the background that 8FillTheHeart had, but wasn't the least bit intimidated. I don't know where all the confidence came from back then, and why that is all gone now that there is so much more help. :confused1: I even have less confidence than I did, despite knowing more and having more. It's more than being more realistic and humble. Something good got lost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 :iagree: I didn't have 1/10 of the background that 8FillTheHeart had, but wasn't the least bit intimidated. I don't know where all the confidence came from back then, and why that is all gone now that there is so much more help. :confused1: I even have less confidence than I did, despite knowing more and having more. It's more than being more realistic and humble. Something good got lost. At the risk of derailing...that thing is the value of human intellect and work outside of the dollar sign $$$. When all of my household goods (including my homeschool books, computer, printer, etc...) were being held hostage on a Uhaul Pod no one cared. When I called management and explained that I *WORK FROM HOME* and *MY OFFICE* is on those pods, I got those pods the very next day. I did not explain that my work is homeschooling my own children, and I did not explain that my office included storybooks. There is no value on what does not produce $$$ in our culture, and I knew I had to leave the impression that $$$ would be lost if I didn't get those pods or we would not have gotten them for probably another month. (That was, indeed!!!!, their plan!!!!) I digress... But - to the OP - value your education and your work. Put your life into what YOU find important. If that is writing LA lessons for your children, do it! That might be how you are supposed to grow as a teacher. Work at it, and share your progress with us. :lurk5: 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I felt more confident in the beginning, I didn't use anything for a few years with my oldest. I jumped in without knowing about homeschooling curricula! Those are some of my favourite memories. She learned to read and write and it was lovely. Of course, I only had one eager and naturally compliant child... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thank you so much for all the replies. I was going to try to respond specifically to several posts but my multiquote isn't working. I'll check out the book recommendations and that thread. I like the looks of those Ruth Heller books. What is WTRT? I don't recognize that one. I keep hearing about Bravewriter but have never checked it out. I found LLATL and quit looking. There was just too many options to look at anything else! It sounds like it may be what I need. What I'm thinking right now is to start with literature. I would like each DD to read one book a month. From that I would pull copywork and/or dictation. We could work on mechanics, grammar, and vocabulary from the copywork. I could also work writing into other subjects with written narrations and reports. I would need to figure out how to break down the writing process to teach outlining, sentences, and paragraphs. At some point I would also need to teach essay writing. I hadn't heard of the "5 paragraph essay" until I started reading these boards so I will have some homework of my own to do. I'd also need to figure out how I want to cover spelling. We currently use Spelling Power. It makes sense to me to just work my way systematically through the lists in that book. I like the idea of pulling spelling words from writing too. I can't decide which way I should go with that. The biggest reason I'm hesitating is because I'm afraid I might miss something important. How does my rough plan look? Am I missing anything big? I also worry that I won't get it planned and therefore it just won't happen. There is a certain amount of security in having it all laid out for me and only being required to tell the girls to open the books and work on the next thing. At the same time, I really like the idea of not being tied to someone else's plan. We could stay on "x" as long as we need to without being rushed on to "y" and cover "c" before "b" if we wanted. The freedom might just be worth the extra work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'd also need to figure out how I want to cover spelling. We currently use Spelling Power. It makes sense to me to just work my way systematically through the lists in that book. I like the idea of pulling spelling words from writing too. I can't decide which way I should go with that. The biggest reason I'm hesitating is because I'm afraid I might miss something important. How does my rough plan look? Am I missing anything big? I also worry that I won't get it planned and therefore it just won't happen. There is a certain amount of security in having it all laid out for me and only being required to tell the girls to open the books and work on the next thing. At the same time, I really like the idea of not being tied to someone else's plan. We could stay on "x" as long as we need to without being rushed on to "y" and cover "c" before "b" if we wanted. The freedom might just be worth the extra work. I think one of the things to recognize with language arts is that there is seriously no way to cover everything. You're making choices much more than in other subjects. From this book or that book, this poem or that one, to how you approach writing from the ground up, to whether you choose to break things down to component pieces like vocabulary lessons and writing lessons separately or keep everything holistic with learning new words as you write (and grammar and all kinds of other things...), you can't necessarily do everything. And that's okay. I think you have to say to yourself, the goal is to be able to read anything you need to read, to understanding how to write in different voices, to have been exposed to lots of good literature in a variety of forms, to be able to speak clearly and formulate ideas and organize them. But the way to get there is complex. So - at least, this is sort of the Brave Writer way - it's okay to be circling those skills in different ways constantly. So you keep doing the same things - like more copywork, more freewrites, more poetry teas, etc. - but you change the passages, the topics, the poems, etc. And as you go, you're naturally going deeper and deeper, understanding and learning more and more. But that's just one take. I have had to keep our spelling separate because I have a kid who needs really explicit spelling instruction. Everything else we try to combine. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thank you so much for all the replies. I was going to try to respond specifically to several posts but my multiquote isn't working. I'll check out the book recommendations and that thread. I like the looks of those Ruth Heller books. What is WTRT? I don't recognize that one. I keep hearing about Bravewriter but have never checked it out. I found LLATL and quit looking. There was just too many options to look at anything else! It sounds like it may be what I need. What I'm thinking right now is to start with literature. I would like each DD to read one book a month. From that I would pull copywork and/or dictation. We could work on mechanics, grammar, and vocabulary from the copywork. I could also work writing into other subjects with written narrations and reports. I would need to figure out how to break down the writing process to teach outlining, sentences, and paragraphs. At some point I would also need to teach essay writing. I hadn't heard of the "5 paragraph essay" until I started reading these boards so I will have some homework of my own to do. I'd also need to figure out how I want to cover spelling. We currently use Spelling Power. It makes sense to me to just work my way systematically through the lists in that book. I like the idea of pulling spelling words from writing too. I can't decide which way I should go with that. The biggest reason I'm hesitating is because I'm afraid I might miss something important. How does my rough plan look? Am I missing anything big? I also worry that I won't get it planned and therefore it just won't happen. There is a certain amount of security in having it all laid out for me and only being required to tell the girls to open the books and work on the next thing. At the same time, I really like the idea of not being tied to someone else's plan. We could stay on "x" as long as we need to without being rushed on to "y" and cover "c" before "b" if we wanted. The freedom might just be worth the extra work. Try planning a mini-term over the summer to try some things out. This sounds like a good plan. If you don't have any struggling spellers, pull words from copywork/dictation passages. Underline any multi-letter phonograms, discuss any applicable rules. (WRTR = Writing Road to Reading. You go through this for yourself. It's a lot for children, but will give you the foundation to teach spelling "off-the-cuff.") Then work on visualizing the words. Can you spell the word aloud? Now write it without peeking. After the words are all pretty well learned, then copy or dictate. Start slow with grammar and build from there. Find the subject & verb this week. Next week we are searching for adjectives... You will have spots that aren't going as well as others in 3 months. OK. Re-evaluate, tweak, plan for the next season. That's growth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Yep, I hear you. I have many of the same thoughts swirling... My biggest worry is probably that I just won't plan/implement properly. That I'm taking on too much, pursuing a pie in the sky perfect and forsaking the good enough that gets done. On the other hand, I know that if I have a workable plan that I'm excited about, it does get done. And by the time I'm done tweaking and adding what I currently use, LA takes too long and seems really busyworky/inefficient... I plan to work on my plan tonight (after I finish the laundry and clean the kitchen), I'll post then. Thanks for this thread! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Yep, I hear you. I have many of the same thoughts swirling... My biggest worry is probably that I just won't plan/implement properly. That I'm taking on too much, pursuing a pie in the sky perfect and forsaking the good enough that gets done. On the other hand, I know that if I have a workable plan that I'm excited about, it does get done. And by the time I'm done tweaking and adding what I currently use, LA takes too long and seems really busyworky/inefficient... I plan to work on my plan tonight (after I finish the laundry and clean the kitchen), I'll post then. Thanks for this thread! Yes, Yes, and yes! What we are doing now gets done. What if I plan out something different and "better" and then it doesn't happen or it's not as perfect in practice as it is in my head?! (I should probably just plan on that last part. Nothing is ever as perfect in real life as it is in the fairy tale of my mind :-P) What we are doing now seems inefficient. Too much busywork, too much review of things the girls have known forever, not enough time spent on things I consider to be more important. Sometimes LLATL has too many separate topics going per lesson and the girls can't keep them all straight. Sometimes there's not much at all being covered and it all seems like bodywork. Of course, then there there are times when I think the lessons are perfect and I'm crazy for thinking of doing something else. I think doing it on my own would be so much more efficient. I could meet each child where they are at. We wouldn't have to waste any time on things they already know or looking up words in the dictionary that they already know the meanings of (yesterday's preferred form of torture according to DD10.) We could use harder literature because they read well, easier grammar because it's somewhat new to them, and I could teach one topic at a time to both of them instead of two separate things. I'm getting excited about it the more I think about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The used TMs for LLATL are cheap. You could skim the TMs about once a month, and make sure the children are keeping up with the most important topics so you could effortlessly place them back in the series at any time. Having a fallback plan can breed courage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks in part to reading 8fill's post on teaching grammar (she linked it up thread), and thanks in part to having a reading/writing phobic dyslexic in the house, for the past two or three years I have been doing more of CM-ish style "use copywork as a tool to teach grammar" approach with my younger two. My dyslexic would shut down with the amount of reading and writing that many workbook style grammar programs require. I *did* use FLL 1&2, mostly oral lessons and at a slow pace, compacting or reviewing as needed to intro the grammar concepts and memorize definitions and lists ( parts of speech, helping verbs, etc.) This gives a solid base of basic grammar knowledge on which to build. You could use any scope and sequence from a basic grammar book for this--like Hunter suggested in the post above. Or you could use these reference charts from CLE which have a nicely and concisely presented amount of info arranged by grades. https://www.clp.org/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=reference+charts&x=0&y=0 Really, whatever tool helps you feel like you are moving forward at a logical pace will do. My younger two choose a copywork passage from any book in their daily reading (one to two sentences, their choice, but I retain veto power), and after checking the copied passage for accuracy( pointing out any errors in copying), we go over the grammar in the sentences. For example, both my youngers happen to be going over prepositions right now. So, in their daily copywork, I focus on having them identify the prepositions in the passage. My second grader hasn't memorized all the prepositions yet, so I help her identify the ones she knows. We review the definition of a preposition, chant the list a few times, add in a new preposition or two, and then she's done. My third grader finds the prepositions in his passage, chants the whole list a few times as review, and then I have been introducing to him the concept of finding the object of the preposition. Right now, I'm still finding the objects, but he will be finding them next week. That's it. It takes 15 minutes, maximum. This has been very efficient and very effective for my younger ones, and has not required a lot of time and expense on my part. This is also very similar to what SWB suggests in The Complete Writer (using copywork and dictation as tool to reinforce explicit grammar instruction). I also follow her suggestions given in her audio lectures on teaching writing with all my children (I don't use the Writing with Ease workbooks). http://peacehillpress.com/audio-lectures/ This has been a very simple and effective way to streamline writing instruction. It really does sink into the other subjects, and not become some separate beast to battle. I do use a stand alone spelling program. I haven't found a reliably successful way around that (yet). ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks in part to reading 8fill's post on teaching grammar (she linked it up thread), and thanks in part to having a reading/writing phobic dyslexic in the house, for the past two or three years I have been doing more of CM-ish style "use copywork as a tool to teach grammar" approach with my younger two. My dyslexic would shut down with the amount of reading and writing that many workbook style grammar programs require. I *did* use FLL 1&2, mostly oral lessons and at a slow pace, compacting or reviewing as needed to intro the grammar concepts and memorize definitions and lists ( parts of speech, helping verbs, etc.) This gives a solid base of basic grammar knowledge on which to build. You could use any scope and sequence from a basic grammar book for this--like Hunter suggested in the post above. Or you could use these reference charts from CLE which have a nicely and concisely presented amount of info arranged by grades. https://www.clp.org/search/results?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=reference+charts&x=0&y=0 Really, whatever tool helps you feel like you are moving forward at a logical pace will do. My younger two choose a copywork passage from any book their daily reading (one to two sentences, their choice, but I retain veto power), and after checking the copied passage for accuracy( pointing out any errors in copying), we go over the grammar in the sentences. For example, both my youngers happen to be going over prepositions right now. So, in their daily copywork, I focus on having them identify the prepositions in the passage. My second grader hasn't memorized all the prepositions yet, so I help her identify the ones she knows. We review the definition of a preposition, chant the list a few times, add in a new preposition or two, and then she's done. My third grader finds the prepositions in his passage, chants the whole list a few times as review, and then I have been introducing to him the concept of finding the object of the preposition. Right now, I'm still finding the objects, but he will be finding them next week. That's it. It takes 15 minutes, maximum. This has been very efficient and very effective for my younger ones, and has not required a lot of time and expense on my part. This is also very similar to what SWB suggests in The Complete Writer (using copywork and dictation as tool to reinforce explicit grammar instruction). I also follow her suggestions given in her audio lectures on teaching writing with all my children (I don't use the Writing with Ease workbooks). http://peacehillpress.com/audio-lectures/ This has been a very simple and effective way to streamline writing instruction. It really does sink into the other subjects, and not become some separate beast to battle. I do use a stand alone spelling program. I haven't found a reliably successful way around that (yet). ;) This sounds very much like what I would like to do. It's very helpful to hear how others teach their children. My oldest DD is the one who complains the most about LA. I think she may enjoy it more if it were tied into other subjects. She LOVES to read too, so coming at the other aspects of LA through literature just might work better with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I do use a stand alone spelling program. I haven't found a reliably successful way around that (yet). ;) For dyslexic kids, I think this is necessary...sigh.. They need slow and steady, methodical and repetitive, isolated and in context, and over and over again, lather rinse repeat! For my non-dyslexic, I am considering doing studied dictation ala CM. If we do this, we will be pulling words to study by phonogram and morpheme before the dictation...to make it *truly* a *studied* dictation. She's finishing the 3rd Apples & Pears book right now, and part of me wants her to finish the series. (I need to finish. :huh: ) The other part of me sees that she's burning out on the series and maybe we should jump ship before it sinks. Then...there was that day that dad was home helping to fix lunch while I was dictating a sentence about running from the police and hiding behind a bush. Yeah, Dad was like "Say WHAT?" :lol: I've had her take "breaks" from A&P to do copywork/dictation (I've posted about it before) and she certainly would rather do that. I think for natural spellers, maybe even normal spellers, studied dictation is ideal. Ask me next year at this time, and I'll have a wise post for you. :coolgleamA: :lol: :gnorsi: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 I'm going to post a link to an OOP book I usually don't talk about, but there are a few affordable copies at Amazon right now. Learning Grammar through Writing http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Grammar-Through-Writing-Sandra/dp/083881493X If you are going to try and make your own LLATL style lessons, then I really recommend Natural Speller and Learning Grammar through Writing. You also might want to take a look at the old spiral bound LLATL Red, Yellow, Tan, and Gray. Those 4 books were the first ones published and are VERY Ruth Beechick and Learning Grammar through Writing based. There are even actual page number references. Lessons were usually just 2 pages for the whole week. And the way they were set up they were awesome examples of how to make your own lessons just like them. I was looking at my spiral books today, and thinking maybe I need to write something like them. Those first thin typewriter written books 1st printing in 1990 were inspiring. By 1994, the 2nd printings and the purple book especially are like a whole new curriculum. The books don't have ISBN #s listed in them, and I'm not sure if they even had any. And different printings are different. My gray book is my only first printing; it's pretty nasty looking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Ok, so I'm going to print off 8FillTheHeart's post! So far here's what I'm thinking. Focussing on copy work: For neater writing Spelling (as we work through ABC's & all their tricks systematically, will synchronize spelling words from copy work passage plus others) Grammar (work our way through Ruth heller books and identify in copy work passage) Dictation (after a time with copy work & analysis above) I plan to pull copy work from stuff he's already reading, and from our memory work (Living Memory - Campbell), and possibly Queen's copy work for boys... Eta. I also made a list of other grammar to go through, from the llatl s&s, like suffixes & apostrophes etc. Use literature that he's already reading for more organic narration. Work together on summarizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Also, we're starting vocab as a family (English from the roots up) And I've always assigned literature, inspired from lists like AO, sonlight etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 There is a lot of good advice already here from people who have been doing it a lot longer than I have. This year I took CW Homer, used my own models, picked a grammar spine I could love, taught the literature elements I wanted to focus on first and it has been the absolute highlight of the year! We love having our language study integrated. I've learned a lot. I've had so much fun. I've learned never to set a timetable on a tale, but to let that work kind of percolate for a while as we work on it. I've learned to not be afraid to stand up at the whiteboard, scratching my head as I worked through participles. I've learned that grammar and composition books for Mom are among my most prized possessions. And I've had so much fun. It's work, but it is work I love. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm going to post a link to an OOP book I usually don't talk about, but there are a few affordable copies at Amazon right now. Learning Grammar through Writing http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Grammar-Through-Writing-Sandra/dp/083881493X If you are going to try and make your own LLATL style lessons, then I really recommend Natural Speller and Learning Grammar through Writing. You also might want to take a look at the old spiral bound LLATL Red, Yellow, Tan, and Gray. Those 4 books were the first ones published and are VERY Ruth Beechick and Learning Grammar through Writing based. There are even actual page number references. Lessons were usually just 2 pages for the whole week. And the way they were set up they were awesome examples of how to make your own lessons just like them. I was looking at my spiral books today, and thinking maybe I need to write something like them. Those first thin typewriter written books 1st printing in 1990 were inspiring. By 1994, the 2nd printings and the purple book especially are like a whole new curriculum. The books don't have ISBN #s listed in them, and I'm not sure if they even had any. And different printings are different. My gray book is my only first printing; it's pretty nasty looking. Thank you! I will definitely look for these. I need to spend some time reading 8's thread too....next week....when Holy Week is over and I have time to really look at all the things that have been suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Critterfixer, I love that. Dd is finishing up aesop b and your posts has inspired me. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PentecostalMom Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Well, when I read through the "2nd grade thread" it seems like there are a lot of people using (or planning to use) English Lessons Through Literature. I've never lasted long when I've tried all-in-one stuff, but it ought to be perfect - classic literature, grammar, copywork, dictation, poetry, picture study, gentle literary analysis, copia exercises (these last two at the higher levels). It ought to be perfect, but after awhile I get tired of being told what to do so much. ha! Have you looked at it? It might be what you're looking for without re-inventing the wheel. Or not. See, IMHO, I think THIS is reinventing the wheel. It seems as if so many programs do the same thing. ELTL is similar to Queen's. Both are similar to LLATL, which is in turn similar to Sonlight LA. I have used all of them except ELTL. Granted, these are my opinions, but with so many publishers pushing their own versions of the same thing, it's enough to drive anyone batty! No wonder so many cannot decide what to use. The real question is, how do we choose? We use Sonlight, so one of the complaints of the other programs don't sit well with me, such as "enough literature". Buy more books or visit the library! We write across the curriculum, so "enough writing" seems the same. "Lack of instruction", does one mean to the teacher or the student? Aren't we supposed to provide the instruction? I am not criticizing anyone, just sort of thinking out loud. I have been homeschooling for a long time and have yet to find anything that is perfect or one-size-fits-all. We have to choose, and try, and do so again to find not what works for us, but what works for our dc. Sometimes you have to trust the process. I think choosing something and sticking with it is one of the most important things we can do, yet so many curriculum hop, hoping to find the greatest thing out there. There are so many choices and it is easy to get the grass-is-greener syndrome by reading or listening to others. BTW, just because someone has 4,582,301 posts here does not mean they are a homeschooling or curriculum expert, so choose wisely where you obtain your advice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 You might want to look at Luke's School List. It's on sale today for $8.00, but I think the sale might end today. http://www.currclick.com/product/93836/Lukes-School-List I like that the list of punctuation rules all include examples. There are not as many explanations and helps as Kathryn Stout, but it's definitely helpful for DIY and the price is right at least for today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndGenHomeschooler Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 See, IMHO, I think THIS is reinventing the wheel. It seems as if so many programs do the same thing. ELTL is similar to Queen's. Both are similar to LLATL, which is in turn similar to Sonlight LA. I have used all of them except ELTL. Granted, these are my opinions, but with so many publishers pushing their own versions of the same thing, it's enough to drive anyone batty! No wonder so many cannot decide what to use. The real question is, how do we choose? We use Sonlight, so one of the complaints of the other programs don't sit well with me, such as "enough literature". Buy more books or visit the library! We write across the curriculum, so "enough writing" seems the same. "Lack of instruction", does one mean to the teacher or the student? Aren't we supposed to provide the instruction? I am not criticizing anyone, just sort of thinking out loud. I have been homeschooling for a long time and have yet to find anything that is perfect or one-size-fits-all. We have to choose, and try, and do so again to find not what works for us, but what works for our dc. Sometimes you have to trust the process. I think choosing something and sticking with it is one of the most important things we can do, yet so many curriculum hop, hoping to find the greatest thing out there. There are so many choices and it is easy to get the grass-is-greener syndrome by reading or listening to others. BTW, just because someone has 4,582,301 posts here does not mean they are a homeschooling or curriculum expert, so choose wisely where you obtain your advice. Thanks for posting this. I think at some point I just got sucked into the mind set that I can't do it myself and that I *need* a curriculum for everything or my kids won't learn what they need to learn. That inevitably leads to worrying about finding the perfect one. I didn't use curriculum at all with my oldest until she was in 2nd grade. I taught her how to read and write, and we did basic math, some history and science, music, and art - all without a curriculum. Then in 2nd grade I started using SM and BF for history. Eventually I added in a science curriculum and finally I added in LA at the end of 3rd grade. I started to feel like I wasn't doing "it" right - especially LA. This year I've pulled away from curriculum for history. I use pieces of things and mix them into my own thing with help from the library. It's time to do the same with LA. The natural way we were learning LA skills has been pushed out by the curriculum. We aren't reading as much great children's literature as before or doing as much writing in other subjects. We are too busy trying to "catch up" to where we should be in the curriculum since we started late. I've never liked the idea of curriculum hopping in an effort to find the "perfect" thing. It seems like better results would be achieved by sticking with one thing for the long term. I never considered though that going from a non-curriculum that was enjoyed to a curriculum that the kids complain about every day is essentially the same thing - and achieving the same poor results. To be clear, I'm not at all thinking that curriculum is inferior to a DIY approach. I certainly plan to keep using most of ours. I'm just realizing that for us, for this one subject, things were better before when we were doing our own thing. I need to trust myself though and not be swayed by what others are doing or the quest for perfection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I started a thread on the Luke's Lists http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/547871-lukes-life-list-and-lukes-school-list-oldschool-scope-and-sequences/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 You may be interested in reading Bonnie Landry's ebooks about dictation and how to make the book (lit) you are reading your curriculum. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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