Have we talked about Alecia Pennington?

[gardenmom5]

Martha, on 15 Feb 2015 - 2:28 PM, said:Martha, on 15 Feb 2015 - 2:28 PM, said:

No. It is not a different definition of love. It's a fact that abused children love and adore their mamas just as much as children who aren't abused. Their love is not less genuine or less real just bc their mamas abused it.

 

We can say their mother's didn't love them or share our definition of what love is. Totally agree.

 

But the children's love is usually quite strong and true. The saddest thing is how these abusive situations sour and confuse those children's grown perception of loving relationships.

 

children of abusive parents don't know any different. they think it is normal. children are dependent upon their parents to care for them - and they associate that adult with their needs being met. - so they think this crap is "love".

 

my grandmother had some sort of personality disorder where she routinely engaged in psychological abuse/manipulative games.  even though my mother constantly told me grandmamma loved me when I started protesting her treatment (I was the only one who protested it), I KNEW that her treatment of all of us was NOT *love*.  someone who is controlling, and delights in undermining and demeaning their "loved ones" in ways aimed at feeding their own ego (and *everything* is about them) does NOT know what love is.  period. end of discussion.

 

 the warped and twisted view my mother grew up with certainly affected my parents relationship (and my mother's relationships with others) - as well as my mother's ability to parent her own children.  It was years, nay - decades of my assuring my mother *that isn't love* (and my grandmother's death) before she started really opening up and sharing some of the reprehensible things she endured as a child.  when my grandmother died - my mother admitted she felt nothing but R.E.L.I.E.F.

[swimmermom3]

You'd kick my dh with his incredibly lucrative night job out of the house, I guess. He's been supporting all of us on it for many years now. But he needs to go to bed by 8:30, not get up.

 

I don't understand how this isn't controlling. Or how it isn't incredibly limiting for young people trying to get work, which often leans toward service and retail and doesn't have a "first shift" option for people passing through not wanting it to be a career. Or why having one grown up on a different schedule necessarily disrupts the sleep of the kids. That has not been our experience at all - and we live in a creaky old house with thin walls. 

 

I don't have adult kids yet. But this is one of those things where I'm like, what's really important. For me, if my kids are home as adults, I can't imagine I'd prevent them from taking paying jobs they wanted to take.

 

We are pretty relaxed, but I heaved a huge sigh of relief when our older two kids moved out.  Our dd struggles with depression and nights are terrible. This means often at 2:30 am, the front door which is by the youngest child's bedroom would open as she would leave to crash with a girlfriend. Or worse, if she forgot and put the garage door up in the middle of the night and the garage happens to be right by our bedroom.  My oldest son left here an hour after his sister did to go to work. He'd been up showering and cooking breakfast. They'd often roll in during the am while their younger brother was homeschooling. I don't think how realized how little sleep the rest of us were getting or how stressful the erratic schedules were.  We love the older kids, but really hope they have no reason to move home. At nearly 20 and 22.5, their lives are very different than ours.

[amy g.]

 

"It is a very godless way of parenting, absent any grace, humility, or flexibility. Jesus does not approve, I dare say."

 

Texasmama, I could not possibly love you more than I do right now.

[albeto.]

I read it as the most traditional states where women are most likely to be oppressed.

 

That's interesting. I can see that. I interpreted it as the states that are most sexually repressed are the most frustrated, and therefore most eager to experience the forbidden fruit.

[TranquilMind]

and in france - they have rated it so low that 12 yos can go see it.

Well, that's pretty disgusting. 

[Upward Journey]

That's interesting. I can see that. I interpreted it as the states that are most sexually repressed are the most frustrated, and therefore most eager to experience the forbidden fruit.

 

That's how I read it too, Albeto.

[Jasperstone]

and in france - they have rated it so low that 12 yos can go see it.

You have got to be kidding! Shudder!!!!

[swimmermom3]

Yes. People make crap up just to screw over other people, even family, all the time. Every single day in fact. I don't know why, but it's still a fact of life.

 

Do you personally know these people well enough to be intimate on the inner workings and behind closed doors struggles in their lives?

 

If not, then why would you presume either is telling the truth and base being okay with this public shaming on that sentiment?

 

I'm presuming nothing of either.

 

All I know is she does not need her parents for this.

 

Martha, I am not so sure on this. I have been combing our state's vital records site and it doesn't even address the idea of what happens if there is NO original birth certificate. Everything on the site is geared towards ordering COPIES. I know that when I could not find middle son's birth certificate, a copy of the live birth from the hospital and a baptismal certificate were not acceptable proof of identity. Thankfully, he had a SSN.

 

 

[swimmermom3]

The comparisons to the public shaming article are... interesting to me. I read that article too. But a lot of what I took from it was about how we publically shame people for single bad decisions or offhand comments that go viral and that it is just as damaging and horrible as some of the old public shaming practices centuries ago. However, this isn't a single bad decision. These parents basically have a plan for controlling their kids into adulthood that includes keeping hold of their information. And through publicizing it, this girl has managed (hopefully, once the affidavit comes through) to break free and determine her own path in life.

 

I just don't see it in the same light. It's so different. In the examples in the article, the only people who were harmed by the actions of the people being currently shamed were people who were offended. Like Justine Sacco said a bunch of offensive stuff and maybe she deserved to be fired (or not), but did she *hurt* anyone? Did her comments actually help spread AIDS? Did she increase racist violence? Nope. She just said some dumb stuff. This family was actually preventing this daughter from voting, from getting gainful employment, from ever leaving the country.

 

(And before we start going in circles again... they were. There was no birth certificate - the siblings confirm that and the parents basically did as well - the siblings who have gotten jobs and DL's live at home and have been helped by the parents to do so - the judge told her she needed the affidavit from the parents that she existed and they initially refused to give that to her. By their own admission. They've now thankfully changed course.)

 

Lisa Pennington as late as June 2014 blogged that on a long drive she was bummed that the girls didn't have their driver's licenses and that she was partly to blame.  The older kids getting their driver's licenses has happened within the last 8 months and the oldest is what - 24?  The girls all work in their family-based etsy business, so no outside jobs or cars are necessary. This is a tightly controlled environment.  That means any money they earn is essentially from their parents. Those kids have nothing that is theirs including their own lives.

 

And again, this is all garnered from Pennington's own blog and has nothing to do with Alecia.

 

 

[Farrar]

and in france - they have rated it so low that 12 yos can go see it.

 

That's in line with how many European countries rate movies. Violence is a huge no, s*x is okay for younger viewers. I heard the movie actually isn't that explicit and that the scenes are really subdued compared to the book. Of course, the concept would think that it would be considered violence and thus get a higher rating. But I haven't seen it (nor do I ever plan to unless I end up hate watching for some reason).

[Scarlett]

The Ezzos did have one good piece of advice I haven't forgotten even 20 years later.

 

"Eat - Play -Sleep", and don't mix up the order, in order to establish great sleeping habits.

 

I couldn't tell you another thing that book said at this point, but I do remember this, and it worked beautifully. I had great sleepers from a very early age.

 

Reminds me of the old adage about eating the meat and spitting out the bones.

On Becoming Babywise...I read it and that was what I got from it too. It worked great for my ds....it was only after I mentioned it on these boards that I discovered the controversy attached to it.

[gardenmom5]

Plum Crazy, on 15 Feb 2015 - 7:24 PM, said:Plum Crazy, on 15 Feb 2015 - 7:24 PM, said:

What happens when the hospital records are destroyed by fire or act of nature? Surely all of those people don't have to find a witness to their birth. Are they out of luck? I wonder because I was just talking with someone who moved from NJ and their kids school records were destroyed by Sandy.

all birth/death records are sent to the state vital statistics office. while there is an OB/delivery log book at the hospital, the original bcs are not kept at the hospital.

 

school records are kept at the school district.

[katilac]

What happens when the hospital records are destroyed by fire or act of nature? Surely all of those people don't have to find a witness to their birth. Are they out of luck? I wonder because I was just talking with someone who moved from NJ and their kids school records were destroyed by Sandy.

 

Hospitals do not store birth certificates, they file them with the state government, which then stores them. There is usually a set procedure for parents to get a certified copy (which will come from the government; this is not the same as a non-certified 'souvenir' type that the hospital may give you). 

 

They are considered vital government records, and are generally protected as such (more and more so in modern times).  

 

So, if normal procedures are followed, the hospital will have a birth record (and usually a copy of the birth certificate, non-certified), the original will be on file with the government, and parents will have a certified copy.  

 

I used the standard hospital example, but obviously home births can be filed also. 

 

Those who don't think what AP is going through is such a big deal should read the following. This is from Rhode Island's site, but holds true everywhere. It's not just a question of filling out a form and moving merrily on with her life.  

 

Complete and return the home birth worksheet within 30 days of birth. If you do not return this form within a year of your child's birth, you will need to provide additional evidence about the birth and pay an additional filing fee. More importantly, the birth certificate will be marked delayed. Government authorities question the validity of delayed birth certificates, which could hurt your child for the rest of his or her life.

[LucyStoner]

I am a bit shocked that Utah didn't make that list considering the state usually is at the top of porn consumption per capita.

Eh. People who consume a lot of porn might just be more likely to realize they have so many more options than 50 shades.

[LucyStoner]

What happens when the hospital records are destroyed by fire or act of nature? Surely all of those people don't have to find a witness to their birth. Are they out of luck? I wonder because I was just talking with someone who moved from NJ and their kids school records were destroyed by Sandy.

In some cases, yes. My grandfather had trouble from time to time because he didn't have a birth certificate. Yes, the county records office burned to the ground before it was all consolidated/archived to the state.

[Katy]

Eh. People who consume a lot of porn might just be more likely to realize they have so many more options than 50 shades.

 

See now I suspect that's more a matter of not wanting to be seen going into the theater.  I bet Utah will nearly catch up when it's availible on Netflix.

[justamouse]

People who abuse and control will always find a way to abuse and control. Let me tell you about a grown woman who was president of a bank who would wear sunglasses to work. They don't need homeschooling, they don't need anything. In some systems it is easier to hide than others, but they will still do it. 

But I'm not going to give up my homeschooling freedom for the few that use it to abuse their kids. Public schools don't shut down because some teachers sexually abuse. 

I'm glad the girl got out and it worked out for her, but the armchair quarterbacking in situations like this is utterly befuddling. 

The only thing we can do to change any of this is to consistently present non punitive parenting, not only as homeschoolers, but as parents. 

[TranquilMind]

People who abuse and control will always find a way to abuse and control. Let me tell you about a grown woman who was president of a bank who would wear sunglasses to work. They don't need homeschooling, they don't need anything. In some systems it is easier to hide than others, but they will still do it. 

 

But I'm not going to give up my homeschooling freedom for the few that use it to abuse their kids. Public schools don't shut down because some teachers sexually abuse. 

 

I'm glad the girl got out and it worked out for her, but the armchair quarterbacking in situations like this is utterly befuddling. 

 

The only thing we can do to change any of this is to consistently present non punitive parenting, not only as homeschoolers, but as parents. 

THIS! 

 

Perfect.