mamabear2three Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ok, say you are really plugged into your church and there is a big, vibrant children's program that your kids love attending, but there is one aspect of the curriculum used that bothers you. It's not "wrong": there are no theological errors, etc., but there is just an aspect of it that seems wrong in that the focus is on theology instead of scripture. It's based on scripture, scripture is read, etc., but the focus is on the theology. The stated objective of this curriculum choice is to give children a foundation into which all future biblical knowledge can fit, whether the kids really understand everything right now or not. Now say going through the "proper channels" to voice a concern changes nothing. Rationale for the current choice is defended, your concerns about the focus is minimized. Kids have friends, have fun, etc. but this issue bothers you as the parent. Would you ignore the issue and just make sure the focus is on Scripture in other aspects of life? Or would you look for a new church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well, we're in a particular church because it's the denomination dh grew up in and it made sense to me when I married him (close enough to what I grew up with, but actually better defined I think). So I would expect or at least wouldn't be surprised to see kids' materials come from that theology, not just scripture. If we had chosen a church that we liked but that wasn't our denomination, this would be a bigger issue to think about. You can't really fault a church for teaching their perspective. If that is not your perspective, you'll have to think about how far off it is. If it's more that you just would rather focus on scripture only, I think it's pretty easy to make up for that at home with bible studies, devotions, etc., especially if it is a healthy, vibrant church that your family likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I didn't disagree with the theology AND the kids didn't mind it or even enjoyed it, I'd let it be. You're talking less than two hours per week, probably? Work through the Bible together at home as part of your homeschool day. Theology you agree with in a busy, active good church that you love -- you can easily teach more Bible at home. You probably can't find another good church so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't even agree 100% theologically with the church we currently belong to, but my kids are growing spiritually and we love it, so I am fine with it. Without knowing what exactly you are talking about, it is impossible to really say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I don't even agree 100% theologically with the church we currently belong to, but my kids are growing spiritually and we love it, so I am fine with it. Without knowing what exactly you are talking about, it is impossible to really say. The bottom line issue is that the focus is on memorizing catechism questions and answers to the point where my daughter believes that the catechism is more important than memorizing scripture because "we never memorize the bible, so it's obviously not as important". I was sick for the past month and in survival mode so I need to get back into bible memory at home, but most of the parents who would be concerned about the issue put their kids in AWANA, and that's not an option for us because of schedules. It just comes across as a bit legalistic, and the kids have no idea how to back up the answers with Scripture, which bugs me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Editing my post because you answered my question before I posted! Duh on me. You can't come up with all the Christian beliefs by memorizing Scripture only. What Scripture proves the Trinity? I think both are important. We did both before I became Orthodox and we *certainly* do both now, in every single service of the Church and in all our prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The bottom line issue is that the focus is on memorizing catechism questions and answers to the point where my daughter believes that the catechism is more important than memorizing scripture because "we never memorize the bible, so it's obviously not as important". I was sick for the past month and in survival mode so I need to get back into bible memory at home, but most of the parents who would be concerned about the issue put their kids in AWANA, and that's not an option for us because of schedules. It just comes across as a bit legalistic, and the kids have no idea how to back up the answers with Scripture, which bugs me too. Ah, I see. That would bug me too, but I think that it could also spark discussion and explanation at home. Last year we were in a Coop and the teacher for the particular class was of a different theological persuasion than I am (different denomination). I didn't agree with all she taught, but was fine with it because we were able to talk about it at home AND because I didn't think it was an issue of salvation. you have to decide what you are comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well if the theology is something you don't agree with, I'd be asking why you go to that church! If it's agreeable but you'd rather they focus on scripture rather than doctrine, I agree with Tibbie. Is this once a week? You've got six other days to focus on things at home. In your shoes, I would use some of that time to focus on the scripture that undergirds the doctrinal teaching of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacus2 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This sounds like a preference thing to me. You say the theology isn't wrong; do you believe it should not be taught at all? It sounds like they took your concerns seriously if they took the time to explain their reasoning rather than ignoring your comments. You are the one in the situation and if you are feeling terribly uncomfortable in the situation, there could be something deeper going on than what I am understanding from your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The bottom line issue is that the focus is on memorizing catechism questions and answers to the point where my daughter believes that the catechism is more important than memorizing scripture because "we never memorize the bible, so it's obviously not as important". I was sick for the past month and in survival mode so I need to get back into bible memory at home, but most of the parents who would be concerned about the issue put their kids in AWANA, and that's not an option for us because of schedules. It just comes across as a bit legalistic, and the kids have no idea how to back up the answers with Scripture, which bugs me too. If it's Presbyterian using the Westminster Catechism, you might be interested in this devotional: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0875523927/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/189-5714914-4920409 Also, both the shorter and longer Westminster Catechisms are available on the web in PDF form, just google it. Same thing for the London Baptist Confession. And I'm guessing any other denomination's would be, too. Each catechism point should have the scriptural foundations footnoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 It is Presbyterian, but it's not the actual "adult" catechism... I will look into these resources, though... Maybe memorizing scripture at home to support the questions would be a good compromise. I think that the perspective in this thread has helped me... and I think that part of me might be overreacting to the whole thing... I'll blame it on pregnancy hormones. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It is Presbyterian, but it's not the actual "adult" catechism... I will look into these resources, though... Maybe memorizing scripture at home to support the questions would be a good compromise. I think that the perspective in this thread has helped me... and I think that part of me might be overreacting to the whole thing... I'll blame it on pregnancy hormones. :) If it is Presbyterian, you are not overreacting......why not look for a real church where they actually read the Bible. KIDDING! JUST KIDDING!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamabear2three Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 If it is Presbyterian, you are not overreacting......why not look for a real church where they actually read the Bible. KIDDING! JUST KIDDING!!!!!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 LOL! OK, we spent some time in a Presbyterian church (while not actually being Presbyterian) and I get what you're saying. I thought the kids' classes felt a little Frozen Chosen, too. But we had some of our best home Bible studies ever during that time; the balance was acceptable to me. We did eventually leave and go back to our own people (LOL) but the kids' programs weren't why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lispy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I understand correctly, you do agree with the theology---you just wish there was more focus on scripture study rather than the memorization of the catechism, right? I think finding a church--that the whole family enjoys--that matches your theology--is a difficult thing. So if you have that, I'd stick with it. But, it does make sense that you'd want the kids not to put more weight on that than scripture itself. I agree with the others that suggested doing the bible study type things at home that "prove" the catechism questions. Fwiw, we go to a PCA church where catechism is taught on Wednesdays, but they also learn the scripture from which the question/answers are derived. For Sunday school, all classes (kids and adults) are more Bible study classes, not theological in nature, though theology of course comes in when studying the scripture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleowl Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Okay, I'm guessing that your kids are learning the First Catechism using Kids' Quest Catechism Club, but I could be guessing wrong. ;) Our church uses that occasionally on Wednesday nights (other weeks the kids are learning songs as a children's choir), but I am a bad mommy and always toss the papers so I can't look them up right now. But don't they talk about Scriptural support in the lesson materials? Not necessarily for memorization, but definitely for discussion. Ideas for you: *Incorporate Bible stories and Scripture memory into your homeschool days. *Look for opportunities in your family Bible reading to refer back to the catechism Q&As. *If the papers that come home with your kids do include Scriptural support, choose a verse from that, post it somewhere, and read it with your kids each day. (If the Scriptural supports aren't included there, look for Scripture proofs for the Westminster Shorter or Larger Catechism - you should be able to find websites with these and then match the concepts with the First Catechism Q&As.) *Ask the teachers to encourage kids to memorize a verse in addition to the Q&As. I know you said you've tried speaking to them (or perhaps to church leadership?), but with this approach, you're offering a solution that doesn't ask them to change curricula, but simply to include an additional challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I liked everything else, I'd keep participating, and I'd supplement or clarify for my kids outside of church. We attend a church I don't always agree with. I tell my kids what I don't agree with and why. I also tell them about the range of different beliefs and interpretations of what they are studying in church / Sunday School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 From a Lutheran perspective, the core Catechism texts are considered to be effectively a mini-Bible - learning the catechism is learning the essential core teachings of the Bible (and the texts are also the basis of Lutheran spiritual practice). And in fact most of the texts are straight from the Bible: *the Ten Commandments are the summary of the Law (and are straight from the Bible) *the Apostles' Creed is the summary of who God is and what He has done for us *the Lord's Prayer is the model for prayer (and straight from the Bible) *key verses on the meaning and purpose of the Sacraments (Holy Baptism and Holy Communion) You start with the texts themselves and very basic explanations, and as you learn and study (and live out what you learn - the catechism isn't just the core of our theology but also the core of our practice of faith), the rest of the Bible is brought in. But the catechism teaches how the Bible is meant to be understood, so it naturally comes first. (And of course we believe that the catechism is a faithful explanation of the Bible, else we wouldn't teach it ;).) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Agreeing with the above. The "catechism" in our church (which for us, in reality, is everything we do/pray/sing/hear) is completely in line with what the Bible teaches. They go together so there's not a one-over-the-other thought (in the sense of one not being as necessary) at all. We listen to and learn from the Bible at nearly every service, and what we pray, what we sing, what we hear in the homily, etc. during the whole of the service backs up/aligns with the Scriptures. Patty Joanna said it well -- we need catechism (I think of it as clarifying instruction) to know exactly what it is the Bible is teaching. ETA -- It's been my personal experience that memorizing the ancient prayers of the church (which again are in line with the Scriptures) and praying those has done far more for my relationship with God than memorizing Scriptures alone ever did. They're both important, but for me, one is learning/thinking about God and one is talking with God. YMMV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If your kids love the program and they aren't teaching anything with which you completely disagree, I would suggest that you stick with it, and teach the things you feel are important at home. I would feel differently if the kids hated to go, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Your kids will get far more benefit out of the things you teach them yourself than they ever could in a once-a-week class. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahB82 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It is our job as parents to teach and live out our faith for our children. Church is a few hours a week. You can do scripture memory every day at home. Look at Seeds Family Worship - they have scripture set to music that most enjoy. It is a pretty easy way to add it to the day when you just have to hit play :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Ok, say you are really plugged into your church and there is a big, vibrant children's program that your kids love attending, but there is one aspect of the curriculum used that bothers you. It's not "wrong": there are no theological errors, etc., but there is just an aspect of it that seems wrong in that the focus is on theology instead of scripture. It's based on scripture, scripture is read, etc., but the focus is on the theology. The stated objective of this curriculum choice is to give children a foundation into which all future biblical knowledge can fit, whether the kids really understand everything right now or not. Now say going through the "proper channels" to voice a concern changes nothing. Rationale for the current choice is defended, your concerns about the focus is minimized. Kids have friends, have fun, etc. but this issue bothers you as the parent. Would you ignore the issue and just make sure the focus is on Scripture in other aspects of life? Or would you look for a new church? :confused1: How can the study of scripture disagree with the theology of the church? FTR, I agree with the stated objective. It is not possible for TPTB to take into account the opinions of every member and to make changes that every member thinks should be made. They have to Choose Something. It is not necessarily that your concerns are "minimized;" it is that they have to make the best decision they can and go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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