Why is conservation "optional" for some people?

[Elaine]

:lurk5:

 

I'll join you. Do you like butter flakes?:lol:

[Mrs Mungo]

I'll join you. Do you like butter flakes?:lol:

 

I put *real butter* and salt on my popcorn. I know, I'm the devil. :D

[Colleen]

You said my response was "interesting". Wasn't that meant as a complement?

 

No, it wasn't intended as a compliment. Nor was it intended as an insult, though I did find your initial reply insulting.

 

I usually think interesting is always better than boring or predictable or conventional.

 

Usually being the operative word.

[Elaine]

I put *real butter* and salt on my popcorn. I know, I'm the devil. :D

 

That's OK, we can still play together.

 

 

:D

[Carrie12345]

 

I think, sometimes, people use enviromentalism as a crutch to enhance their self-estem. JMO.

 

I really don't understand that. When I do good (what I think is good), I feel good. Of course that boosts my self-esteem.

 

Isn't that what self-esteem *is?

[Mekanamom]

I am too far in to see out anymore, and I am both frustrated and confused. I'm talking about the conservation of resources and about what I consider conscientious living. I have reached a point in my life where I truly cannot understand how anyone could choose to be opposed to these principles. If I excuse the ignorant, I'm left with feeling that those who do are either unbelievably selfish or terrifically short sighted.

 

 

I hear your frustration. I am lucky to live in an area that makes recycling easy! And WAY less expensive than putting out extra trash. It costs money to have the trash picked up, and recycling is FREE. :D

 

Nevertheless, a person I know and shall remain unnamed, simply did. not. care. This person never filled their trash all the way up to the top of the can, and reasoned that since they were paying for trash pick-up, by God they were going to fill that can with recycling too.

 

Then that person got really mad when the trash guys refused to pick up the cans that had recycling in them.

 

Ah... sometimes CA has irritating policies, but I was not upset about that one. :D

 

ETA: There is quite a bit more to this story that makes what happened such a satisfying outcome. Normally, I'm big on choice... but in this particular case, there was quite a bit of poetic justice involved! And regardless- I feel very fortunate to live in a place where they really DO try to make recycling easy on everyone.

[Colleen]

My problem is with the assumption that only an irresponsible, border-line immoral person, wouldn't "conserve".

 

Yes, resistance to conservation, imo, is irresponsible. Immorality doesn't follow.

 

I think there's alot of room for debate about the relative value of conservation, in many forms, not just recycling.

 

What is the argument for not conserving on any level, in any form? Not the argument against conserving, mind you; the argument for not doing so.

 

I think, sometimes, people use enviromentalism as a crutch to enhance their self-estem.

 

The same may be said with regard to those who pride themselves on not following the conservation trend.:)

[Stacy in NJ]

I really don't understand that. When I do good (what I think is good), I feel good. Of course that boosts my self-esteem.

 

Isn't that what self-esteem *is?

 

 

But, what if the good that you think you're doing isn't all that good, and you insist not only that you do but that others must do as well? For selfish reasons.

[Carrie12345]

But, what if the good that you think you're doing isn't all that good, and you insist not only that you do but that others must do as well? For selfish reasons.

 

My stance on environmentalism is no different from my stance on homeschooling. Maybe what I'm doing isn't all that good, but I've never insisted that others must do so. It does color my opinion of them though.

 

And I have no idea where selfishness comes in there.

[Stacy in NJ]

 

Yes, resistance to conservation, imo, is irresponsible. Immorality doesn't follow.

 

 

What is the argument for not conserving on any level, in any form? Not the argument against conserving, mind you; the argument for not doing so.

 

 

 

The same may be said with regard to those who pride themselves on not following the conservation trend.:)

 

 

 

I haven't figured out the thread within a thread thing yet. So, I'll respond down here.

 

*IN YOUR OPINION* resistence to conservation is irresponsible. I can live with that. I disagree.

 

What is the argument for not conserving. Wasting resources. Misspent millions in the form of government subsidies for ineffective conservation projects.

 

self-esteem....blah...blah.... But, IMO, for some in the enviromental movement it works as a pseduo-religion. It's a belief system immune from actual evidence.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

self-esteem....blah...blah.... But, IMO, for some in the enviromental movement it works as a pseduo-religion. It's a belief system immune from actual evidence.

 

Some others (not myself as I am not an atheist but do respect their POV) could call a belief in Christianity a pseudo religion, but they don't because that would be just plain rude. There is actually more evidence to support environmental science than to support the existence of a supreme being.

[Stacy in NJ]

 

No, it wasn't intended as a compliment. Nor was it intended as an insult, though I did find your initial reply insulting.

 

 

 

Usually being the operative word.

 

 

Are ... you .. saying.. that my post wasn't interesting?

 

Colleen, was that sarcasm?

 

I'm soooo hurt.

 

Well, thanks for reviewing my posts. Perhaps you should utilize the ignore option, that way you won't be bothered with posts that *don't* interest you.

[Colleen]

*IN YOUR OPINION* resistence to conservation is irresponsible.

 

Yes, IN MY OPINION ~ as already stated, albeit in short form ("imo").

 

What is the argument for not conserving. Wasting resources. Misspent millions in the form of government subsidies for ineffective conservation projects.

 

Needless to say I disagree. There's no doubt that not all conservation efforts achieve their standards. Humans are imperfect; waste and ineptitude can occur in any endeavour. Rejecting conservation altogether is a short-sighted response. In my opinion, of course.

 

self-esteem....blah...blah....

 

Yes, blah blah. But you raised the point.

[5kidsforME]

That's OK, we can still play together.

 

 

:D

 

I want in, on my way over I will stop for Mike's and ice-cream! :auto:

[Erica in PA]

I try to be "responsible" and not waste things needlessly, but no, the preservation of the planet is not foremost among my thoughts or concerns. I don't believe that humans are going to (or even have the capacity to) destroy the earth, in any case.

 

We are to be good stewards of the earth, and use it wisely. What that means varies widely from person to person. I'm sure my interpretation is much, much less strict and involved than yours, or the others who've posted here. I can't relate to worrying while washing dishes or taking a shower that I'm using too much.

 

Erica

[TravelingChris]

I have lived in places where there were incentives to recycle. We did that most of the time. I certainly did not recycle things I would have to actually wash versus rinse. When I lived in a desert area, I didn't recycle anything that needed rinsing. Water was more precious. I tried using large collection boxes in the grocery store lot but they wouldn't get picked up so I would drive around with trash. My dh quickly put a kibbosh on that. If they didn't pick it up and it wasn't clean (paper or cardboard), it wasn't being recycled. What I don't like is the hard plastic containers all kinds of things are packaged in. They are very hard to open and aren't recyclable,

[Colleen]

Are ... you .. saying.. that my post wasn't interesting?

 

On the contrary, I said it was interesting.

[Carrie12345]

 

We are to be good stewards of the earth, and use it wisely. What that means varies widely from person to person. I'm sure my interpretation is much, much less strict and involved than yours, or the others who've posted here. I can't relate to worrying while washing dishes or taking a shower that I'm using too much.

 

Erica

 

I, myself, don't feel any sense of impending doom when I occasionally obey my shampoo bottle's demand that I rinse and repeat :D, but I do try not to be too complacent about it.

 

Running out of water has been a VERY serious concern for my family in Atlanta. Not necessarily for the environmental-friendliness aspect, but for the amount of moolah it would/will cost to route adequate water to the area. Which, by the way, is due in big part to the over development of the area.

 

But I guess that's nobody's fault.

[Stacy in NJ]

 

On the contrary, I said it was interesting.

 

I think you must have a very nuanced definition of interesting, at least from my gross perspective.

 

Gotta run. I need to waste some of the earths resources and grill some not-organic burgers on my carbon emitting grill.:D

[Colleen]

I think you must have a very nuanced definition of interesting, at least from my gross perspective.

 

Yes, that may very well be.

 

I need to waste some of the earths resources and grill some not-organic burgers on my carbon emitting grill.:D

 

Enjoy.:)

[Slartibartfast]

BOO!! I double posted!

[Slartibartfast]

Stacy NJ,

 

I have a feeling our votes cancel each other out.

 

Too bad we don't live in the same state we could just make a deal not to vote and go shopping! My car gets 41 mpg though, so it might cramp your style anyways.

[sdWTMer]

Doran,

 

I think it's because we have the ability to be that way. Some may think that it's not true, but we have a choice for now. Frankly, I'm glad that we have the choice. I would much rather have the choice of recycling than to be given no choice. I'll take freedom any day.

[Stacy in NJ]

I have a feeling our votes cancel each other out. Too bad we don't live in the same state we could just make a deal not to vote and go shopping! My car gets 41 mpg so I hope it doesn't cramp your style.

 

 

Hmmm, shopping sounds like fun, but just so you know, I drive a hybrid Toyota Highlander. My gas milage is pretty good.:001_smile:

[muffinmom]

As the wife of a recycling collection business owner, I have a couple of thoughts on this.

 

First of all, as I think has been stated, REDUCING is the most important thing any of us can do. And for the first time in a long time, my husband and I are seeing individuals and businesses truly asking themselves, How can we permanently change our habits? Not just, What can we do with all this stuff we're consuming? I think people are finally getting the point that we each must look at our own lives, the conveniences we are used to, and make a few sacrifices to consume less.

 

Having said that, I am disappointed by the green movement in the sense that there are many who tend to be condescending to others and do pat themselves on the back quite a bit about all their efforts. It's just one more opportunity for elitism. We shouldn't be scolding each other, we should be showing each other how to live different lives--inspiring each other to live more simply and more meaningfully. Some people don't know how, some just don't want to. The best and kindest thing we can do is just live our lives and show them how it can be done.

[Elaine]

As the wife of a recycling collection business owner, I have a couple of thoughts on this.

 

 

Having said that, I am disappointed by the green movement in the sense that there are many who tend to be condescending to others and do pat themselves on the back quite a bit about all their efforts. It's just one more opportunity for elitism. We shouldn't be scolding each other, we should be showing each other how to live different lives--inspiring each other to live more simply and more meaningfully. Some people don't know how, some just don't want to. The best and kindest thing we can do is just live our lives and show them how it can be done.

 

I am all out of rep, again!! :glare: What a terrific post, Muffinmom. You're on my list.:001_smile:

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Having said that, I am disappointed by the green movement in the sense that there are many who tend to be condescending to others and do pat themselves on the back quite a bit about all their efforts. It's just one more opportunity for elitism. We shouldn't be scolding each other, we should be showing each other how to live different lives--inspiring each other to live more simply and more meaningfully. Some people don't know how, some just don't want to. The best and kindest thing we can do is just live our lives and show them how it can be done.

 

Thank you for giving me some good food for thought with this wonderful perspective.

[Saille]

I don't know that I agree with you that we should all work hard to conserve. Your research or opinion or worldview leads to to another conclusion. That's fine. My problem is with the assumption that only an irresponsible, border-line immoral person, wouldn't "conserve". I think there's alot of room for debate about the relative value of conservation, in many forms, not just recycling.

 

I think, sometimes, people use enviromentalism as a crutch to enhance their self-estem. JMO.

 

Um...whoa. Really?

 

If conservation's value is relative, why do residents fight so hard to keep landfills out of their areas?

 

Honestly, reusable cloth diapers vs. big steaming pile of disposable diapers in a hole...

 

I suppose it's possible that conservationists only do what they do to enhance their self-esteem...sort of like when Louis the IX went on crusade. But what can the reason possibly be for such insistence on NOT doing something that is simple to do and might be helpful, such as consuming less, utilizing reusable grocery bags, or recycling when one *has* a curbside program? I suppose I feel like the original poster's question remains unanswered.

[sdWTMer]

I gave Muffinmom some good rep for you, although I don't carry the weight rep wise like you do. :)

[Elaine]

I gave Muffinmom some good rep for you, although I don't carry the weight rep wise like you do. :)

 

Thanks, buddy! I will get her later, when I am loaded.:001_smile:

[Mom to Aly]

More than 15 years ago, they made recycling mandatory in NY and, I believe, NJ, at least in NYC (I don't know about other places). It was a $250 fine, I believe, the first time you violated it. And they would go through your garbage to check! It is higher on subsequent times.

 

That is how necessary it was there, and it was not because of conservation, but because of the amount of garbage they produced. So, even with all the info there, and the huge population, and recycling centers everywhere, people still didn't do it.

 

But look at the info out there now--Bush says there is no global warming! We aren't in danger! The planet is fine! We can chop down the forests, the rainforests, anything we want--we are humans, we own the Earth, we rule the Earth, who cares what we do!?!

 

With all that nonsense, who cares!!!

 

I know a fam that is fundamentalist Christian, and they LOVE Bush--their oldest child, 13, told me that there was much worse done to the Earth in medeival times, we are doing nothing, so don't worry! We should listen to Bush and ignore all the rest! They don't recycle, they don't conserve, they don't do any of it, and they are PROUD not to!

 

Besides that, there are people who feel it is beneath them (yes, my xh used to work with some people like this). Why should they bother? They don't buy recycled, to them it is like buying used, they don't want to have their garbage in their front yard waiting for someone to pick up, they don't want to deal with it, let someone else.

 

It is sad, it is ignorant, it is hurting the planet, our children, everything. But, I have to wonder, why is it not mandatory, when we know how much it helps? Or why aren't there deposits everywhere on recyclable containers? You'd get a ton more who recycle. Why aren't all states doing that?

[Saille]

What is the argument for not conserving on any level, in any form? Not the argument against conserving, mind you; the argument for not doing so.

 

I really, really want to hear a cogent answer to this.

[Colleen]

Good post!

 

First of all, as I think has been stated, REDUCING is the most important thing any of us can do.

 

Agreed. And knowing Doran, she'll agree, too. She was addressing the issue of conservation in general and used recycling (or not, as the case may be) as an example. Since many people equate conservation primarily with recycling, that's the aspect of her post that received the most attention.

 

We shouldn't be scolding each other, we should be showing each other how to live different lives--inspiring each other to live more simply and more meaningfully. Some people don't know how, some just don't want to. The best and kindest thing we can do is just live our lives and show them how it can be done.

 

Yep. And fwiw, I don't think anyone in this particular discussion is scolding.

[Kelli in TN]

Thanks, buddy! I will get her later, when I am loaded.:001_smile:

 

I got her too.

[Kelli in TN]

Good post!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. And fwiw, I don't think anyone in this particular discussion is scolding.

 

 

I think she meant in general, not in this thread. I am sure she has run up on some zealots who come across a little...um....strong.

 

Sort of like me, when I was a new homeschooler out to convert the whole world to homeschooling!:tongue_smilie:

[muffinmom]

Yep. And fwiw, I don't think anyone in this particular discussion is scolding.

 

FTR, I wasn't talking about anyone on this thread, just the attitude that is "out there" in general. I think that lively discussion, such as on here, is usually beneficial.

[muffinmom]

I know a fam that is fundamentalist Christian, and they LOVE Bush--their oldest child, 13, told me that there was much worse done to the Earth in medeival times, we are doing nothing, so don't worry! We should listen to Bush and ignore all the rest! They don't recycle, they don't conserve, they don't do any of it, and they are PROUD not to![/quote

 

I can assure you not all Christians feel that way...in fact, of the many Christians I know, no one that feels this way. They are some of the most responsible and stewardly people that I know.

 

IMO, Christians or at least those who believe in God, should be the ones leading any kind of environmental care movement. After all, in Genesis, God put the care of the world into the hands of man, not to use up and squander, but to care for wisely.

[Saille]

What is the argument for not conserving. Wasting resources. Misspent millions in the form of government subsidies for ineffective conservation projects.

 

I'd like to see some hard numbers on how conservation wastes resources. That sounds like an oxymoron, no?

 

Also, just based purely on population and commensurate use of technology, is there anyone *here* who would believe that we did more damage to the Earth during medieval times?

 

I honestly don't see how "conservation is patently unnecessary" holds up under scrutiny, or use of logic. The waste we generate has to go somewhere, and we've reached a point of critical mass where it's actually choking current and developing resources. That's just not smart. I'm really surprised to hear do-it-yourselfers advocating a "Why should I?" mentality about something that seems really simple...and I'm finding a lot of common ground with posters who had Depression-era relatives pounding frugality into their heads. The two overlap so much, why not harness both horses and plow faster?

[Carrie12345]

I'd like to see some hard numbers on how conservation wastes resources. That sounds like an oxymoron, no?

 

You would think, right? But there are some aspects that could (do?) potentially cancel each other out.

 

Dh drives a hybrid. Right now, the controversy is that the building of hybrids, shipping of parts, etc., wastes more than hybrids save. I do not know how accurate that is. However, I do know that higher, more consistent demand would reduce the per-vehicle energy to create, so I'll gladly contribute to the numbers while saving on gas costs.

 

I also feel fairly confident in the stats that claim that the energy (and toxins) involved in recycling plastics negate the benefits, so I reduce and reuse as much as possible, with recycling being my last stop. Besides, milk tastes better when it's in paper or glass cartons. Though I am trying to cut my kids back. Cow farts and all. :tongue_smilie:

[Mom to Aly]

I know a fam that is fundamentalist Christian, and they LOVE Bush--their oldest child, 13, told me that there was much worse done to the Earth in medeival times, we are doing nothing, so don't worry! We should listen to Bush and ignore all the rest! They don't recycle, they don't conserve, they don't do any of it, and they are PROUD not to![/quote

 

I can assure you not all Christians feel that way...in fact, of the many Christians I know, no one that feels this way. They are some of the most responsible and stewardly people that I know.

 

IMO, Christians or at least those who believe in God, should be the ones leading any kind of environmental care movement. After all, in Genesis, God put the care of the world into the hands of man, not to use up and squander, but to care for wisely.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Christians were more likely to not recycle, although fundamentalist Christians, from those that I have met, generally like Bush a lot more than those that are not Christian. I was just taking this family as an example of a fam that loves Bush, and seems to follow his "the Earth is fine" line of thinking. Also, most, if not all, of the fundamentalist Christians I know don't agree with things like global warming, etc. They don't see any of this as man doing anything, but as the coming of the end of the world, and think there is nothing we can do about it.

 

And, I do think that whether one is Christian or not (as you stated), or whether they believe in God or not, they should be able to see what is happening to the Earth and try to assist in stopping it. I believe it is the equal responsibility of every human being, no matter their belief or religious stance.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

And, I do think that whether one is Christian or not (as you stated), or whether they believe in God or not, they should be able to see what is happening to the Earth and try to assist in stopping it. I believe it is the equal responsibility of every human being, no matter their belief or religious stance.

 

:iagree:

 

Many Christians believe that being good stewards of the earth is keeping in line with the teachings of Jesus. Many churches even sponsor green programs or are making efforts to go green for this reason.

[Saille]

You would think, right? But there are some aspects that could (do?) potentially cancel each other out.

 

Dh drives a hybrid. Right now, the controversy is that the building of hybrids, shipping of parts, etc., wastes more than hybrids save.

 

I've read that, too. And I think that if it weren't the temporary problem you've pointed out that it is, the end might not justify the means. But when I look at what experts are saying about the inefficacy of offshore oil drilling at creating even a temporary cost abatement (with no real long-term gain), I am flummoxed by how many people are yelling for it. It feels like an extension of the credit mentality that's causing so many economic problems. Surely we can buckle down!

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I think conscientious living reminds people of the way it used to be for the majority.

 

Waste not want not. Use it up, wear it out, or do without.

 

Those people of the past did not live that way because they chose to. They lived that way because they had to. Most people today don't look at those times as being good times. They see that lifestyle as harsh, inconvenient, and unfulfilling. They don't want to go back. People who deliberately think about how to live conservatively are not living the "American Dream."

 

Conservation of resources means thinking beyond what I want for myself and becoming aware of the hidden costs of my choices, then choosing accordingly. That is not natural for most people, especially Americans. We are still a young country, only just now beginning to realize our limitations. Other countries have had to face thier limits long ago.

 

Scaling back is foreign to us. We think big. We think new. Old is for history buffs and collectors. Even old is becoming younger and younger.

 

My latest struggle has been with shoes. Do I keep perfectly good dress shoes for 6 years, till my next son can wear them? Or do I donate them to the thrift store, knowing I can get new ones in 6 years? Should I wash my 9yo's tennis shoes and save them for the 4yo? Will I look at them in 5years and throw them away because nobody would want them? Should I even waste time thinking about them, not to mention storing them.

 

Our family has been forced to live more deliberately over the last 2 years, out of economic necessity. Believing that we are also contributing to the protection of resources, does make it more enjoyable, and more bearable. But if we didn't have to live like this, I wonder if we would, at least to the extent we are now.

[muffinmom]

I do think that whether one is Christian or not (as you stated), or whether they believe in God or not, they should be able to see what is happening to the Earth and try to assist in stopping it. I believe it is the equal responsibility of every human being, no matter their belief or religious stance.

 

I'm all for everybody joining in. But if someone claims to believe in God as He is presented in the Bible, then they would have to grapple with the responsibility given to man by God. And if they abandoned or took lightly that responsibility, that would reflect how willing they were to live out what they say they believe.

 

Just saying that Christians should be leading the way, not sitting back or closing their eyes. I say this to myself too, BTW, because I am a Christian.

[Peela]

What drives a person to be careless (and, yes, I feel it is careless) with our children's future? Is utter disregard for the value of conservation not a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? What am I missing, or am I being unnecessarily intolerant? Please share your thoughts with me on this. I'm sure I have much to learn.

 

There are probably many reasons, and I feel all are based in ignorance.

 

There is a whole fundamentalist Christian vision that thinks the world is doomed anyway, and they will be 'saved' but the rest of us...well, not their problem. It's sick and pervasive.

 

There are many who feel the science is wrong, because they deny any science that disagrees with their religious beliefs, or they go out and find a scientist who does agree with them.

 

There are people who just can't be bothered, for sure (and sometimes i fall in that category, although I do try). There are people whose lives are already so full and stressed and they are lost in the bog of human suffering, and can't lift their head far enough above to care too much about the bigger picture.

 

I went to a cremation in India 5 years ago, on the banks of the Ganges river.The body had been wrapped in a white shroud, then a huge clear plastic sheeting. They took off the plastic sheeting and placed the body on the funeral pyre and lit it. Then as several of us Westerners watched- they threw the plastic sheeting into the Ganges. Someone rescued it. But it was explained to me later that the culture and conditioning in India is so strong that the Ganges purifies everything, that throwing rubbish into her is not necessarily seen as bad! Obviously the Recycling campaign hadn't yet reached these uneducated but sincere people!

 

What amazes me is that 40 years ago, hippies and "greeny" scientists were trying to get the message of conservation across because it was obvious then to many...but they were considered far left loopy tree huggers. Now that its much, much worse, it's 'mainstream' and hip to care. Doesn't it occur to anyone to have a look at what the more extreme people are saying now? Because in 40 years when the masses finally listen...it could be too late! (That IS what many scientists etc are saying.) It's actually very, very serious. We are living in a false sense of security. Things are going to pot. Recycling should be a given, as should many things be - and the opposition to it is just one aspect of the huge opposition to waking up out of our collective sleep that everything is going to be ok. Recycling makes us feel empowered that we are doing something, but trusting our future to the governments of today, any of them, is something we may look back on with regret- there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes and it doesn't have our best interest at heart. Issues like recycling can be a distraction from the far bigger issues of giving up all our rights that we value.

[Plucky]

There are probably many reasons, and I feel all are based in ignorance.

 

There is a whole fundamentalist Christian vision that thinks the world is doomed anyway, and they will be 'saved' but the rest of us...well, not their problem. It's sick and pervasive.

 

 

 

I'm surprised you would really make a statement like that. Why is it okay to color a whole religious group like that? Would you do that to Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans? I believe a few of those groups have people within their ranks that are oblivious to the environment. Would you label an entire group when you'd only interacted with a certain percentage? This isn't right.

[Plucky]

I'm surprised you would really make a statement like that. Why is it okay to color a whole religious group like that? Would you do that to Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans? I believe a few of those groups have people within their ranks that are oblivious to the environment. Would you label an entire group when you'd only interacted with a certain percentage? This isn't right.

 

Peela, were you able to read Mrs. Mungo's post about diversity of thought: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53282&highlight=diversity

[Parabola]

I try to be "responsible" and not waste things needlessly, but no, the preservation of the planet is not foremost among my thoughts or concerns. I don't believe that humans are going to (or even have the capacity to) destroy the earth, in any case.

 

We are to be good stewards of the earth, and use it wisely. What that means varies widely from person to person. I'm sure my interpretation is much, much less strict and involved than yours, or the others who've posted here. I can't relate to worrying while washing dishes or taking a shower that I'm using too much.

 

Erica

I agree with the bold. I don't think we have the capacity to destroy the planet. What we do have is the capacity to destroy all life upon it. This is easily within our abilities right now. We're actually working quite hard at it. Go humans.

[Peela]

I'm surprised you would really make a statement like that. Why is it okay to color a whole religious group like that? Would you do that to Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Mexicans? I believe a few of those groups have people within their ranks that are oblivious to the environment. Would you label an entire group when you'd only interacted with a certain percentage? This isn't right.

 

But I didn't paint all fundamentalist Christians with the same brush. I referred to a particular vision that some have. I have relatives who are fundamentalist Christians who do not subscribe to this mentality as far as I know. I am jsut aware that it exists.

[Peela]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53282&highlight=diversity

 

Yes, were you?

Please don't be offended by me, I am not making a personal attack on anyone.