Help me with this child - how do I help him improve his behavior and attitude

[DesertBlossom]

DS is 8. He's bright, working 2  grades ahead in nearly everything. He has moments of exceptional maturity-- like when he finds a recipe for pancakes, doubles it and makes them entirely by himself from start to finish.  He's curious and always wanting to create things, try science experiments, etc.  He can be an absolute joy one on one. He's funny and articulate.

 

He's also highly emotional. I've read all the books like The Explosive Child. (though I really need to re-read them. He's definitely "easily frustrated and chronically inflexible.") He's got a lot of energy and he tends to get too physical. He's the oldest of 5 kids. I've joked that he would have been a perfect only child. However, he seems to delight in making my other kids scream.  Disciplining him has been so frustrating. If he is given a consequence (even one that was decided on in advance for bad behavior) he gets angry and pouts and screams and seems to entirely forget whatever it was HE DID to earn the consequence in the first place. In fact, for a long time he'd tell me that he did whatever behavior that got him into trouble because he got into trouble and he was mad-- like he honestly forgot the order the events. He is highly sensitive to anything that is not fair. Often he has a point, but if I don't hand out the exact same consequences to his 4 and 5 year old brothers as I do for him he flies into a raging fit. However, he is so often the instigator that I really don't feel the 4 and 5 year olds deserve the same punishment. (which is usually just time in their rooms to calm down a bit)  Very recently he's started lying to me. It honestly boggles my mind how he was not a chronic behavior problem the 2 years he was in public school.  

 

This year I am homeschooling all my kids. (last year it was just him) We start with a "Morning Meeting." It's 15 minutes of scriptures study, singing, reading a fun story, memorization, etc. It's informal, sitting on the floor. The 1 and 4 year olds are wiggly and in the way. But it's DS8 that frustrates me most. He hides behind couch, gets angry when something doesn't happen the way he thinks it should, says things to make the other kids feel bad, refuses to participate. It's like he wants to ruin the morning for everyone. This morning he's angry about how much work he has to do and is refusing to do any of it. (It's not that much) 

 

Last week I made a little pocket chart with 3x5 cards in it. They start out earning 3 stars each day and flip the card around to 2, 1 or 0 cards for their behavior. At the end of the day we add up the stars as a group and add them to a chart. When we earn a certain amount, we're going someplace fun. When he loses a star it sends him into a tailspin and he's angry and uncooperative the rest of the morning. He ruins it for everyone.

 

He lost his Wii and tablet privileges yesterday but over and over and over he asked to use them again. I told him "do not make me say no more than once." I finally told him if he asked again he would lose his privileges for the rest of the week. And within minutes he asked again. When I told him he'd lost those privileges for the week, he made the rest of the day hell for me.  I read in some parenting book somewhere that you need to ignore the "noise" sometimes. LIke when he's angry and upset about whatever, to just ignore it. I used to give consequences for being rude when he lost privileges, but that just sent the whole situation into a fiery tailspin. Ignoring it is better, but it still hasn't done anything to change that behavior.  LIke honestly, my life would be infinitely better if I just quit parenting him and let him do whatever the hell he wanted.

 

I would put him back to public school if I didn't think he'd be bored out of his mind and turn into a serious problem.

 

I admit I get frustrated and lose my temper too often. That never ends well and he calls me out on it. "But you yell at me!"  My mother described my oldest brother the same way and he turned out to be a respectable adult, so I haven't lost hope yet. I'm just so incredibly frustrated with him. He's a bright kid and yet 9 times out of 10 he is the one causing problems. 

 

I don't know what my question is...

 

I guess I would mostly like help with our time doing "homeschool." I've got five kids and that's not easy anyway. It's like I walk on eggshells with him. I can't tell him that he needs to actually do some work before he stops for a snack or he'll pout and ask over and over and refuse to do anything. If I don't give in immediately to all of his whims, it turns into a big fight.

 

(Today, for no reason in particular, is an exceptionally bad day)

 

[KeriJ]

Oh goodness.  That is exactly the morning I just had with my 6/almost 7 year old.  They sound identical. (I also have 5 children) I spent my lunch hour pouring out my frustrations to my husband.  Sadly I also lose my temper often.  Today I did the forbidden "I may have to call the school down the road and see if they can enroll you this week" threat.  Which I know is wrong, but I was getting desperate.  I didn't say it entirely in a threatening way, but instead tried to paint the picture that homeschooling is an optional choice and a privilege. (which I know he is too young to get....like I said, I was desperate)

 

The thing is, we have dealt with this before, and worked it out, and have seen improvement.  But then it keeps coming back.  I'm weary of having to perform a song and dance just to get him in a cooperative mood.  I feel like at this point, I should be able to say "time for phonics!"  without major resistance.

 

My husband suggested using the 3 strikes system and taking away all media for the day on the 3rd strike.  I know that sounds like an obvious consequence, but for whatever reason, my mind wasn't going there this morning.  But like you said, that often backfires as he spends the rest of the day stewing over his consequence.

 

Anyway, just here to say, you're not alone.  and I'll be listening in.

[scbusf]

I am no help because you just described the scene here this morning with my 6 and 8 year olds. 

[DesertBlossom]

How about putting him on contract?  He can then control his morning. Any chance he can check in with the principal (dad) in the a.m.?

 

Also use positive behavior modification techniques.  Give stars for good work and cooperation, accentuate the positive.

 

You're going to have to explain a little more what you mean by putting him on a contract. 

 

I was hoping the star cards were positive. But it's like he immediately put it to the test and then freaked out when he actually had to flip his card around.

 

I suppose we could start with zero and work our up with stars. 

[FairProspects]

Do you give him a chance to earn the stars back for good behavior? We have a similar system and I have one kid who will spiral downward quickly because he doesn't transition well (including from play/morning into schoolwork). I noticed that if he knows he can earn the rewards back by good behavior - helping others, working quietly without complaints, etc. that it stops him from going negatively down. He often moves down the scale now, but usually comes back up after lunch. He is just slow to transition. If he knows the reward is gone, he will stop trying for good behavior completely and start feeding himself the lie that he is a "bad kid", but if he knows he can earn it back that really helps him to moderate the behavior and to connect that behavior is temporal and can change for the good as well. You might try a scaled system with the ability to earn back rewards and see if that can't turn it around a bit.

[librarymama]

You have just described my oldest, exactly! He is extremely competitive, can't stand to lose or be told he spelled a word wrong or whatever. It sends him into a tantrum and ruins it for everyone.

 

My solution so far is to ignore the noise and send him to his room, or, if it's over school work I quietly repeat myself once to correct his work or do whatever I had asked.

 

It's hard! I have to be more patient than him. I guess he thinks if he makes enough of a fuss he will be right or get his way... but nope!

[DesertBlossom]

Do you give him a chance to earn the stars back for good behavior? We have a similar system and I have one kid who will spiral downward quickly because he doesn't transition well (including from play/morning into schoolwork). I noticed that if he knows he can earn the rewards back by good behavior - helping others, working quietly without complaints, etc. that it stops him from going negatively down. He often moves down the scale now, but usually comes back up after lunch. He is just slow to transition. If he knows the reward is gone, he will stop trying for good behavior completely and start feeding himself the lie that he is a "bad kid", but if he knows he can earn it back that really helps him to moderate the behavior and to connect that behavior is temporal and can change for the good as well. You might try a scaled system with the ability to earn back rewards and see if that can't turn it around a bit.

 

In general, I do typically let them earn a lost privilege back, which definitely helps DS. The first day he lost stars he was so mad and so ornery and then would not stop nagging me about whether or not he was allowed to earn them back. I told him I would think about it and by the end of the day I told him no. I suppose I should have just told him yes. But sometimes I really get frustrated that everything has to turn into a power struggle. I suppose that's more my problem though.

[kbutton]

Do you give him a chance to earn the stars back for good behavior? We have a similar system and I have one kid who will spiral downward quickly because he doesn't transition well (including from play/morning into schoolwork). I noticed that if he knows he can earn the rewards back by good behavior - helping others, working quietly without complaints, etc. that it stops him from going negatively down. He often moves down the scale now, but usually comes back up after lunch. He is just slow to transition. If he knows the reward is gone, he will stop trying for good behavior completely and start feeding himself the lie that he is a "bad kid", but if he knows he can earn it back that really helps him to moderate the behavior and to connect that behavior is temporal and can change for the good as well. You might try a scaled system with the ability to earn back rewards and see if that can't turn it around a bit.

 

This also helps sometimes at our house.

 

Another option--if you have enough rewards and punishments (my kiddo has very few things that will work), you might try to make them separate. So, he could just flat out earn stars if he's good and not lose them if he's naughty. If he's naughty, you impose a different consequence.

 

If you think you have some things going on under the hood besides straight out strong will, consider things like anxiety, sensory issues, ADHD, etc. and see if strategies for those work. When we are sure those things are not affecting behavior here, we have other strategies (approved by his therapist since he has several issues)...

 

For general ill will that seems to have no source, we often have to back way up and be super nice or go scorched earth. We often don't know going into it which approach will be the correct one, and if we get it wrong, it gets worse. Just a heads up. Backing way off means lowering all kinds of expectations and giving him only things he's very likely to succeed at (and only things you can be directly involved in and give your full attention to). Scorched earth looks like no privileges or nice things in his life, and he has to earn them all back. Sometimes it's situation-specific scorched earth--he wastes a parent's time with schoolwork, so his time is wasted. For example, if he's derailed school for an hour, he gets to sit on the couch doing NOTHING for one hour. No talking to people, no getting up (potty excepted). If he tries to engage people in conversation, we ignore him. He can sit on his head, pick his nose, sing (not obnoxiously) on the couch, but no leaving the couch or interacting with others at all. The couch is a place he hates to go. We don't send him to his room for punishment because he likes to be in his room. 

 

My son has very few forms of currency, and free time is at the top of the list. So, this kind of things works well for him. Another kid might need a different type of epic intervention that is tailored to their behavior (like natural consequences, but with some extra help to make them more painful).

 

And on a side note, I think the taking away all privileges type of scorched earth works largely because he ends up spending a lot of 1:1 time with a parent due to not having anything to do. It's not that he doesn't get 1:1 time with us typically, but if he's been naughty enough, it's not unusual for us to not have a lot of spare time to give him as much time as he'd like (his behavior can really derail a lot of stuff and be a big time suck).

[FairProspects]

In general, I do typically let them earn a lost privilege back, which definitely helps DS. The first day he lost stars he was so mad and so ornery and then would not stop nagging me about whether or not he was allowed to earn them back. I told him I would think about it and by the end of the day I told him no. I suppose I should have just told him yes. But sometimes I really get frustrated that everything has to turn into a power struggle. I suppose that's more my problem though.

 

Is it really a power struggle though if everyone understands and agrees to the system? My kids use green/yellow/red cards which are attached to certain privileges. If they are ready to go for school at 9am in the school room having eaten breakfast, then they start the day on a green. Whining, complaining, & fighting can get you moved down to yellow or red, but completing your work independently with a good attitude can get you moved back up. I don't see it as a power struggle, but more of a routine or procedure that everyone understands and has agreed to accept to make our homeschool run more smoothly.

[displace]

Just a thought that I'm wondering if starting HS with the others is making him feel not so special?  IDK, of course, but the correlation with behavior and a new routine may make it a consideration. 

 

I must say I'm picking up some good advice from the replies on your thread.

[73349]

My DS tends to do things like that, too, when in a group.

 

How does he respond when you call him not on the behavior itself, but what you think is the reason behind it? ("DS, are you feeling impatient right now?... Would sitting on my lap help? We do need to get through this in the next ten minutes or so.")

 

Can he lead part of the meeting?

 

Does he know what's coming next? If not, try posting the routine on a whiteboard or in a pocket chart.

 

What if he could be expelled from Morning Meeting and made to do it later, when the other kids are having free time?

 

 

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

This also helps sometimes at our house.

 

Another option--if you have enough rewards and punishments (my kiddo has very few things that will work), you might try to make them separate. So, he could just flat out earn stars if he's good and not lose them if he's naughty. If he's naughty, you impose a different consequence.

 

If you think you have some things going on under the hood besides straight out strong will, consider things like anxiety, sensory issues, ADHD, etc. and see if strategies for those work. When we are sure those things are not affecting behavior here, we have other strategies (approved by his therapist since he has several issues)...

 

For general ill will that seems to have no source, we often have to back way up and be super nice or go scorched earth. We often don't know going into it which approach will be the correct one, and if we get it wrong, it gets worse. Just a heads up. Backing way off means lowering all kinds of expectations and giving him only things he's very likely to succeed at (and only things you can be directly involved in and give your full attention to). Scorched earth looks like no privileges or nice things in his life, and he has to earn them all back. Sometimes it's situation-specific scorched earth--he wastes a parent's time with schoolwork, so his time is wasted. For example, if he's derailed school for an hour, he gets to sit on the couch doing NOTHING for one hour. No talking to people, no getting up (potty excepted). If he tries to engage people in conversation, we ignore him. He can sit on his head, pick his nose, sing (not obnoxiously) on the couch, but no leaving the couch or interacting with others at all. The couch is a place he hates to go. We don't send him to his room for punishment because he likes to be in his room. 

 

My son has very few forms of currency, and free time is at the top of the list. So, this kind of things works well for him. Another kid might need a different type of epic intervention that is tailored to their behavior (like natural consequences, but with some extra help to make them more painful).

 

And on a side note, I think the taking away all privileges type of scorched earth works largely because he ends up spending a lot of 1:1 time with a parent due to not having anything to do. It's not that he doesn't get 1:1 time with us typically, but if he's been naughty enough, it's not unusual for us to not have a lot of spare time to give him as much time as he'd like (his behavior can really derail a lot of stuff and be a big time suck).

I like the idea of separating punishments and rewards. I really  don't think he has any other issues. It's just plain strong will. And you know, if I tried to get him to sit on on the couch for an hour it would be a fight the whole time. He would get up or fight me about it constantly. I've tried things like that  before and they don't end well.

 

That would take a while. Instead, let me refer you to the library parent shelf...get Susan Winebrenner's "Teaching Gifted Kids in the Regular Classroom".

 

No matter what you do with stars, I think he's going to focus too much on them, based on my experience with my sons.  They do better with a focus on the positive and a quick re-direct....they feel the assumption that they are a 'good kid' which allows them to move on to learn to control their behavior.  The tantrums are a problem at this age; give him other ways to express his opinion.  If my kid started to tantrum, I would walk off (always remove audience) and put on my lawnmower ear protectors. While he followed and tried to get my attention, I'd write my note to him: Sorry, I can't hear when you are screaming. Too confusing. My ears hurt. Write your complaint down in the composition book and I will read it after lunch, then we will discuss it at our weekly meeting (Sat. morning at 10 a.m. ). Come back when you are done yelling and screaming.

 

Also, make sure his diet is appropriate. A protein based bkfst and snack is needed.  Also sufficient exercise, the sweaty kind. 

Thank you for the recommendation. The problem with  a lot of his behavior is that not only would he be upset at me, but he'd start taking it out on everyone else. He'd be likely to hit the next person he saw. He often needs to be completely removed or the situation escalates. Not too long ago we had the worst situation we've ever had. I don't even remember now what started it. But he was sent to his room to cool off. He'd open the  door and yell at me or sneak out so he could find something to throw at me. If I started walking towards him he would run back and slam the door and lock it. I was in tears over it. I couldn't believe the way he was acting and it didn't stop until DH came home. 

 

Is it really a power struggle though if everyone understands and agrees to the system though? My kids use green/yellow/red cards which are attached to certain privileges. If they are ready to go for school at 9am in the school room having eaten breakfast, then they start the day on a green. Whining, complaining, & fighting can get you moved down to yellow or red, but completing your work independently with a good attitude can get you moved back up. I don't see it as a power struggle, but more of a routine or procedure that everyone understands and has agreed to accept to make our homeschool run more smoothly.

In hindsight, I just hadn't thought it through that much. I have no problem letting him earn things back. But when he's pissed and angry and demands to know if he can earn his privileges back the last thing I want to say is "sure, honey!" He's a bright enough kid that I'm surprised he hasn't figured out how much farther he can get with a nicer tone. And that's something we work on. Most of the time I will offer up a "you want to try that again a different way?" when one of the kids asks for something while being rude or snarky, so they have a chance to say it again nicely. But that day I was frustrated and not feeling like he deserved it. Like if he had felt at all remorseful for his behavior I would have immediately told him he could have a chance to earn it back.

 

Just a thought that I'm wondering if starting HS with the others is making him feel not so special?  IDK, of course, but the correlation with behavior and a new routine may make it a consideration. 

 

I must say I'm picking up some good advice from the replies on your thread.

You know, the very first day of HS when we started our morning meeting (like 30 seconds into it) he said, "I hate this. I liked it better when I was the only one who was homeschooled." The thing is, last year only the 7 year old was in ps. The 5 year old went to preschool 2 times a week, but otherwise I had 4 kids home all day. It's not like he had a lot of 1 on 1 time with me then either. Not to mention, none of this behavior is new. I'm sure part of it the higher expectations I have for my oldest. But I've cried more over this child than all my others combined. He makes me feel like a failure of a parent on a regular basis.

 

My DS tends to do things like that, too, when in a group.

 

How does he respond when you call him not on the behavior itself, but what you think is the reason behind it? ("DS, are you feeling impatient right now?... Would sitting on my lap help? We do need to get through this in the next ten minutes or so.")

 

Can he lead part of the meeting?

 

Does he know what's coming next? If not, try posting the routine on a whiteboard or in a pocket chart.

 

What if he could be expelled from Morning Meeting and made to do it later, when the other kids are having free time?

More often than not, I'm just completely baffled by the initial behavior. Everything after that would be in response to it. Like he gets a bee in his bonnet and I have no idea how to pull him out of it. I did try including him in the morning meeting. He was good during his part, but disruptive during the rest.  And we do have a (loose) schedule of the day written on poster board. We do our morning meeting and then get to work doing independent work. Today he was angry about how much he had to do because it appeared to be more than usual.  (EIGHT THINGS!)  If I asked him to leave the morning meeting he'd likely run  back and in and out and make it miserable for us. 

 

This morning he did finally do about half his work. But I kind of gave up on school today (DD is finished) and the kids are just playing with puzzles now and building forts.

 

I don't want it to sound like he is always this way. He's not. He can be such a good kid so I know he's capable of it.  He just gets in these moods. Something sets him off and he will spend hours with his face all furrowed looking for ways to make everyone miserable. The only way to knock him out of it is to just flip out on him. And then he pouts and cries "you think I'm a horrible kid. I can't do anything right." Ugh.

[LaughingCat]

I found that taking things away was NOT worth the struggle/meltdown it caused.  DD did far, far better if everything was earned and nothing was taken away.  So in this case I would start them all out with NO stars, and specifically state what each child has to do in order to earn each star.  No loss of stars for later mistakes either.

 

The red/yellow/green only worked here as a way to have DD judge herself where she was at - NOT Mom putting her "in yellow".

 

This is not to say that DD never lost anything - certainly she did.  But I stopped setting myself up for meltdown by not using these techniques where loss is the main teaching tool (taking away stars, eating the m&m, taking away tv time etc).

 

As she has gotten older it has become less of an issue. 

 

(ETA: the "specifically state what each child"  is because I would be clear that younger kids do not have to meet the same standards in order to earn their stars)

[jmc1970]

I don't know if this will help as I am also still in the process of "seeing what will work". I noticed that if we have something to do or somewhere to go later in the day, the kids will have a better attitude at getting things done. But...the hard part is being willing to skip that activity if things are not done. Another I've done (which is incredible difficult for me) is to set out my expectations for them that day and if they choose to play away the morning, let them. Now, they understand they have to make it up in the afternoon or evening, which they hate. And...if a friend calls to play, an impromptu activity comes up, or we have a planned activity later in the day, they are not allowed to go if their work is not done. This has happened several times and the answer has been no, so they are learning to get their work done as soon as possible without me having to nag at them to get it done.  It's hard on me because I want the work done in the morning, I don't want to miss daytime activities, and I don't want to have to homeschool in the evening, but it's been a tradeoff having them be more responsible for their time and choices.

[DesertBlossom]

I found that taking things away was NOT worth the struggle/meltdown it caused.  DD did far, far better if everything was earned and nothing was taken away.  So in this case I would start them all out with NO stars, and specifically state what each child has to do in order to earn each star.  No loss of stars for later mistakes either.

 

The red/yellow/green only worked here as a way to have DD judge herself where she was at - NOT Mom putting her "in yellow".

 

This is not to say that DD never lost anything - certainly she did.  But I stopped setting myself up for meltdown by not using these techniques where loss is the main teaching tool (taking away stars, eating the m&m, taking away tv time etc).

 

As she has gotten older it has become less of an issue. 

 

(ETA: the "specifically state what each child"  is because I would be clear that younger kids do not have to meet the same standards in order to earn their stars)

I think I will immediately implement the earning stars instead of taking them away. I think that would help. I have a bunch of already paid for fields trips and outings planned and thought I'd make the kids "earn" them. The last time we did a reading chart and the kids got a star for every 15 minutes of reading. DS8 earned over 1/3 of all the stars by himself. He read hours and hours and hours. He can work really hard when motivated! My behavior stars haven't been working so well. 

 

I don't know if this will help as I am also still in the process of "seeing what will work". I noticed that if we have something to do or somewhere to go later in the day, the kids will have a better attitude at getting things done. But...the hard part is being willing to skip that activity if things are not done. Another I've done (which is incredible difficult for me) is to set out my expectations for them that day and if they choose to play away the morning, let them. Now, they understand they have to make it up in the afternoon or evening, which they hate. And...if a friend calls to play, an impromptu activity comes up, or we have a planned activity later in the day, they are not allowed to go if their work is not done. This has happened several times and the answer has been no, so they are learning to get their work done as soon as possible without me having to nag at them to get it done.  It's hard on me because I want the work done in the morning, I don't want to miss daytime activities, and I don't want to have to homeschool in the evening, but it's been a tradeoff having them be more responsible for their time and choices.

 

I do. Sometimes I come up with an impromptu outing just to get them (him) to work harder/faster. Today we're going to a splash pad. And last week on DH's day off DS didn't get to go with DH because he hadn't finished his work. He was so mad and he did finish his work, but he wanted to "calm down" instead of meeting up with DH.  He's finally calmed down today and is back to working. He even offered to water the garden for me and pull weeds and grass out of it. The boy is Jekyll and Hyde most days. *sigh*

[73349]

Have you heard of Zones of Regulation? That might be another one to look up.

[LaughingCat]

Just wanted to add that sometimes it is just a wording change - DD would "earn" the ability to do the fun thing by completing her work by X time, rather than "lose" the chance to go because she didn't complete her work.

 

Also I would suggest making earning things factual when possible and not a judgement by Mom on whether he did well or not.  For disruption, I might have it be something like sitting without getting up or not talking without raising your hand and Mom saying you can speak(or whatever the disruptive behavior is ).   

 

And sometimes when judgement was unavoidable, I had DD make the judgement - obviously this could backfire, but she was honest about it (with some joking around about being perfect lol!). 

 

I also think that I 'lean' toward critique/negative consequences and that when I do more commenting on the positive behaviors everything is better (not stars or other 'rewards' but just commenting)-- but this has been a lot harder than it sounds for someone who leans more towards 'Eeyore'

[blue daisy]

I'm following along because you just described my almost 7 year old son to a T.  He is quick to anger, easily loses his temper over the littlest thing, but then any correction or consequence sends him into a downward spiral, and he screams or has a tantrum and makes things miserable for everyone.  It is SO frustrating and hard to stay calm! (And when he's calm, he is SUCH a fun kid - so funny, thoughtful, sweet, etc.)  I think you got some good advice and ideas to try.  I am going to try some of these things myself.  We saw a therapist for a while (scheduling didn't work out so we didn't go for long but I think I will try again), and one of the key things we talked about was ignoring bad behavior, and removing him from the situation as needed.  I send DS to his room a lot until he can speak to us calmly.  If he is screaming in his room, I close the door.  He might come out but if he's not calm, he gets sent right back up.  We do this until he's calm enough to join us again, but he still has to do whatever he was arguing about in the first place.  I'm working on getting him to see that he's wasting his own free time. (i.e. Do the chore/work/whatever, have time to do what you want OR throw a fit, spent time in room, waste everyone's time, STILL do the chore/whatever, and have no free time left).  He's still learning that one. ;)

 

Anyway, there was a thread a couple of weeks back about motivation and I've been implementing some of the ideas mentioned.  Basically, if he makes things miserable for the rest of us, he owes us apologies, and depending on how miserable, he might have to do something nice for us.  For example, last week he threw a terrible tantrum about unloading the dishwasher - his daily chore.  My DH was working from home and on a call-in meeting, so it was particularly disruptive to him.  I sent DS to his room and told him to come down when he was done screaming. (this took a couple of times before he was actually calm when he came down.)  He went up, slammed the door, and stomped on the floor as hard as he could.  When he finally did come down, he had to apologize to everyone, write a note to DS that he was sorry, STILL do the dishes, then I gave him an additional chore to help take care of our home as a consequence for stomping/slamming/trying to hurt our home.  In the end, he lost his free time because he wasted so much time on his tantrum and making up for it.  For my DS, having time to do what he wants is very important, so it really hurts when he wastes his own time.  I don't know if this example will help at all, but I hope you find some strategies that work.  And I'll be reading the other replies because I'm at a loss most days too! 

[blue daisy]

Of course, my strategy doesn't work so well when he throws a fit at bedtime, as he did tonight. I certainly don't want to delay bedtime because he's behaving badly! 

[ELaurie]

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[Guest oishearsy]

Also use positive behavior modification techniques.  

 

[Tracy]

I only have 2 kids, but they are night and day, so I sometimes use the strength of one to shore up the weaknesses of the other.  Instead of calling attention to the one that has the problem, I tell both kids that we are working on X.  Then when my kid who is good at X does his thing, I can praise (or reward) him for it in front of the other.  That is often enough of a reminder and incentive to get the other one to do it.  

 

I have to admit that I get frustrated far too easily.  My husband has really helped me with this.  He just keeps saying, "We're going to be cheerful, even if we don't feel like it."  He doesn't say it directly to me, but just generally.  And it helps all of us to calm down.  So I have tried to with varying success to do this with the kids when he is gone.  It has made me realize how much I contribute to the problem.  The most important thing that we can do is to keep our heads about us and not allow ourselves to react emotionally, further escalating the problem.  I am not sure how to do this myself exactly, But I know things go better when I can remember to keep myself calm.

[ErinE]

In general, I do typically let them earn a lost privilege back, which definitely helps DS. The first day he lost stars he was so mad and so ornery and then would not stop nagging me about whether or not he was allowed to earn them back. I told him I would think about it and by the end of the day I told him no. I suppose I should have just told him yes. But sometimes I really get frustrated that everything has to turn into a power struggle. I suppose that's more my problem though.

I wouldn't say I'll think about it. Instead, I'd give him concrete steps. Finish your schoolwork, put away your toys, speak kindly to me. Every time he started acting up, I'd remind him that this is not the way to earn back the privilege. Otherwise, he doesn't know how to earn back privileges and he needs to quiz you on whether he's done what he's supposed to.

 

I really try to make the steps specific and achievable. "Working with a cheerful heart," not achievable. Working without complaining, achievable. I've also found praise for working diligently helps.

 

I've noticed that eight was a challenging age, at least for my oldest two. They weren't as compliant, and the expectations were higher. Each of my two oldest has spent time still doing school work as I prep for dinner.

[Lecka]

If you are taking a star away it is not positive.  Tell him he can earn a star -- then if he does not earn a star, he does not "lose" something.  

 

You also sound like you are making the stars take a long time before they earn anything.  Maybe some quicker results plus a longer one -- that is very possible, he can have a list of things he can earn quickly, and then there can still be the group goal that is more long term.  

 

You have got to notice him being good, even if he is doing the littlest thing right, and give him a star, if you are trying this kind of positive behavior.  If he doesn't get a star it is not positive for him.  It is also too much power for him to ruin it for everyone else -- he is too little to be given that power.  Let the other kids earn things, don't let him be the veto power.  If he was in a place where the peer pressure would work, maybe that would be a good system -- doesn't sound like it is a good system right now.  

 

When my son has been a little like this, he has been jealous of the little kids, and prefers negative attention to no attention.  It is very attention-seeking behavior in my son.  It is hard, but it helps if he gets one-on-one time and if he gets some special things.  Also he really does, sometimes, feel things are too babyish for him.  It is hard to have some things work for both a 4-year-old and an 8-year-old who is 2 years above grade level -- it is a huge range.  Would he buy into being a helper?  Being put in charge of some part of morning meeting?  These are strategies that might be a possibility.  

[Kidlit]

We went through a bout of extreme negativity this summer with one of our girls and found the Nurtured Heart Approach helpful:

 

http://difficultchild.com/nurtured-heart-approach/

[fairfarmhand]

I wrote a blog post about our school contract.

 

I had to write down what a good school day looked like in black and white.

 

http://hotmesshomeschooling.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/challenging-kids-schoolwork-contracts/

[blue daisy]

I wrote a blog post about our school contract.

 

I had to write down what a good school day looked like in black and white.

 

http://hotmesshomeschooling.wordpress.com/2014/07/23/challenging-kids-schoolwork-contracts/

 

I read your blog post.  Seeing your rules spelled out was very helpful.  Thanks for sharing!

[Bookaddict]

Hello! I have three kids and my eldest is an almost five year old boy. He was always so well behaved then suddenly he grew and realized he doesnt have to stay in time out and then the raging tantrums started. Anyway, I came across a book (recommended on a different thread on this forum) called The Way of Boys. It is by Dr Anthony Rao (child psychologist) and he talks about dealing with boys, their energy, aggression, discipline issues, etc. My husband and I both read it and we have been using his suggestions and it made us understand where our son was coming from! It made all the difference in the world.

 

Anyway just a thought...here is the link: The Way of Boys

[ZeeMommy]

Much more whining here than explosions.  I have noticed, not just with my kids but with literally EVERYONE most anywhere, that positive reinforcement has a tendency to generate more positive behavior.  When I find that my kids have done something good, and give them genuine praise, they tend to behave a lot better!  Even in job situations I've found that this is true - think about which boss you'd like to have, the one that compliments you on your good jobs even if you mess up, or the one that always brings up what you do wrong, no matter how much you get right?  My kids, too, tend to turn into blathering messes if they are hungry or tired.  So that might be something to consider as well.  Neither one of these are probably total solutions for your son's issue, but they might help. 

[DesertBlossom]

Thank you all so much for you replies. It has been very helpful. The rest of our week went much better and I really was surprised at how much of a difference it made to start with zero stars and work up instead of losing them. 

 

A lot of you mentioned positive reinforcement-- I know that positive reinforcement works. I used it very effectively in my classroom when I was teaching. And yet this (often sweet and adorable and loving) boy of mine sometimes defies all logic. This happened a couple years ago, but we were all walking in to church and our kids were being really good and walking quietly. (and given their ages that was a big deal!)  So I told them "you guys are all being so good and so quiet. Thank you so much." And IMMEDIATELY DS (about 5 or 6 at the time) starts chanting loudly "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA." I was so completely dumbfounded. That was NOT supposed to happen. I was praising his good behavior so he starts being obnoxious?  I can laugh about it now. But I'm not kidding when I say he makes me feel like a failure of a parent on a regular basis!  

 

Anyway, thank you all again for all your wise words. It has given me a lot to think about and read in the near future!

[acsnmama]

I haven't had the chance to read all responses, but my son has some of these habits and he's 8. I think maybe it's the age? Not excusing it. Since turning 8 he has had a bad attitude more often than not. I tend to get overwhelmed easily and sometimes I think my frequent negativity rubs off on him. I tend to get easily frustrated. However, he still typically does what he is asked. That's not to say he does so without whining or complaining!

 

A few things we do in our home... He gets gets reading in bed privileges, he may lose the privilege for a night. Every book 100+ pages earns a ten minute coupon for additional video game time on weekends, if his behavior is not good, he may loose coupons that he has earned. We limit video games strictly to weekends and holidays, or he'll beg me daily to play!

 

I'm sorry you've had difficulty with your son, hang in there!

[amyc78]

I went through a very difficult time a few weeks ago with DS8 and here are some things that I discovered from our struggle:

 

1) First things first- make sure his 'tanks' are full.

His love tank- is he getting one-on-one time from you AND your husband. Firstborns seems to need even more of this than other kids. Is he getting lots of eye contact, physical affection, etc. Figure out what his love language is and spent 10 minutes early in the day focused on that. 

His physical tank- is he getting plenty of sleep? is his diet low sugar, high protein, free of food dyes and artificial ingredients? is he getting lots of outlets for physical energy and aggression?

His responsibility tank- Boys need responsibility and work. We increased the chores we expected DS to do and after some initial whining, he is actually more helpful than before and does his work cheerfully now.

His mind tank- Make sure his school work is sufficiently challenging without being overwhelming. Make sure it interests him. Allow him to take ownership in as much of his curriculum choices as you can. Show him that his opinion matters to you.

 

2) Have a meeting with just you, him and your husband. Start by affirming your unconditional love for him and that you value him. Tell him things that you love about him. His acting out feels pretty rotten for him too and he has probably convinced himself he is a negative, rotten kid. Tell him you don't think that about him. His behavior is separate from HIM. Then explain to him that you love him too much to allow his behavior to make himself miserable and the rest of your family miserable. He is an important part of your family and you want him to fulfill the role that God has for him in your house. You want him to realize his gifts, etc etc. Then be very specific about the expectations you have for him- type it up so all 3 of you can sign it and then post it in the school room and have him re-read it in the mornings.

 

3) STOP- DS and I made a stop sign out of card stock and a craft stick. He colored it and on the back printed:

S- Stop

T- Think about it

O- Obey what you know is right

P- Pray for help

We place the stop sign next to his seat and I tap on it as a reminder when I think his behavior is on the verge of escalating. We've also practiced some deep breathing techniques.

 

4) Positive reinforcement- I agree with what others said about keeping this separate from punishment for now. Otherwise it sounds like he'll never earn anything positive. Try the marble jar- when he does something positive (helps a sibling, says yes mam, works quietly for 20 minutes, whatever), you tell him to go put a marble in the jar. When the jar is full, he gets ________ (for us it's mine craft time). He can't lose marbles for bad behavior. Also being the oldest, give him some jobs that make him feel important, like being in charge of the game for Morning Meeting or whatever. 

 

5) Because discipline and punishment seems to totally infuriate him right now, I would not use any convoluted methods and instead have a 'zero tolerance' policy. If he is acting in a way that is disrespectful, unkind, harming others or himself, he's removed from the school room. Reiterate that you love him very much and you love him too much to let him hurt himself and others with his actions. He is not allowed to treat you or your family that way and so he is removed from school for the day. Make his room (or wherever you're sending him) bare bones- no toys, video games, etc. He will probably have a total meltdown but I would stand firm. He is a bright kid and I can't imagine that he will want to be separated from education and fellowship for long.

 

6) the Gospel. Seriously, this has been huge for us. Sin is real and it's a struggle and will always be a struggle. Open up the Word with your son and explain to him why he is acting the way he is (Romans 3:23), that God loves us anyway (Romans 8:35), that God loves us so much that He provided a way out of our sin (John 3:16). that we don't have to be good to earn His grace and that He promises to keep helping us (Philippians 1:6). Pray with him. 

 

great books are Grace Based Parenting by Tim Kimmel, How to Really Love Your Angry Child by Ross Campbell and Heartfelt Discipline by Clay Clarkson

 

You're a good mom. You obviously love him and want whats best for him. Parenting is so hard. Give yourself plenty of grace as well. Hugs!