How important is math really?

[Desert Strawberry]

Wow. You all are awesome. Thank you for all of the ideas! Let me see if I can cover some of the questions/thoughts posed here:

 

- When I say "none" I am exaggerating. She DOES know the lower numbers like 2+2, 1+3, and even 2+7. It's the higher numbers that she doesn't have memorized and has to pause to think about. We haven't done much in the way of subtraction yet because she is still trying to master addition.

 

- At the end of last year we started doing something like several of you suggested in that I would give her a sheet of problems to work on "drill style" for one minute.  She could handle that and even said she liked it. We would then read a chapter of Fred together, which she loves.

 

- In LOF, we just finished Dogs.  She is moving on to Edgewood when we get back to it.

 

- She actually seems to be doing better with math since we've spent the summer playing math games like Yahtzee, Dinosaur Math, etc.  So maybe continuing with that through the school year will help?

 

- Love the Cyber Chase suggestion! I'd forgotten about that show! :)

 

- She absolutely knows that I hate math! She is super sensitive already and I am not good at hiding my frustration over this subject, though we are happier with LOF.

 

So my plan for this school year then, using your ideas above:

 

1. Continue with LOF

2. Practice math facts at least 5 minutes daily to help cement them

3. Practice math using Khan Academy as I originally planned.

4. Lots of games for math (I may need to get some more now!)

 

Does this sound like a good plan of attack?

Your plan sounds great, and very similar to mine. 

 

You don't necessarily need math games. Any game with dice is a math game. Playing cards are good, too. Barnes and nobles has a kit with two decks of cards and rule book. We love it.

 

There are free games online that will help with all kinds of math skills. Printable card games, dice games, puzzles. Search for math games. You don't have to invest a lot of money.

[Desert Strawberry]

hmm, since she likes LOF maybe some other stories that highlight math ...

 

check your library for:

Cyberchase videos or the Magic School Bus videos/books

There are plenty of literature books that could be used ... a simple internet search for "math literature" yields several sites.

try: http://www.livingmath.net/Home/tabid/250/Default.aspx

Ah,thank you for this! We are fast running through all of the books in our library's math section. I need more books!

[ElizabethB]

Right Start is super scripted and should help you both, plus it comes with a bunch of fun games. The abacus was helpful for getting my daughter to understand math better at around that age. My son is fine with just Singapore, but my daughter needed things from both Singapore and RightStart. We started with Math U See and she learned almost nothing using it, the switch to RS/Singapore and then just Singapore made her understand math a lot better.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

It sounds like maybe mastery math isn't for her (it wasn't for my son) I would suggest trying a spiral program and putting her back in grade 1 or 2, this is what we did with my son. It was the best move for us, my 9 year old now enjoys math and feels like he's great at it. Math is so important and used all the time, even if you don't think it is. If nothing else I would even drop another subject to make up that time to get them up on level. I tell my children that some things we don't like doing, but they must be done.

This is the advantage of CLE and Saxon math. CLE might be nicer for up to 6th or 8th grade since it is workbook style and teaches directly to the student. It also has plenty of practice and reinforces math facts and everyday applications. I like Saxon for highschool since it has video support.

[kristi26]

So you all aren't going to believe this. We haven't done much of anything in the way of formal math this summer and haven't started up our new school year officially yet (though we have logged a bunch of days here and there).  Yesterday, DD and I were playing with money.  Mostly I wanted to see if she could actually remember what each one was called and what it was worth.  And she did! Then, I figured I'd see where she was on adding money (I expected her to fail at this and was going to give her a mini-lesson on it). She did it!! She can add money! We have gone over and over this concept and she finally gets it!!!! I am so excited for her!!!!  :hurray:

[Hunter]

I absolutely believe this. I see this all the time, when a student is developmentally ready for the topic being covered. It's more like we are reminding a student instead of teaching them. When the brain is ready for something, it's as easy as drinking water. When the brain is not ready for something, we have to trick it into understanding, in ways that are a lot of work for us, never mind the student.

[kristi26]

I absolutely believe this. I see this all the time, when a student is developmentally ready for the topic being covered. It's more like we are reminding a student instead of teaching them. When the brain is ready for something, it's as easy as drinking water. When the brain is not ready for something, we have to trick it into understanding, in ways that are a lot of work for us, never mind the student.

 

Yes!  Honestly, I think DD would have benefited greatly from waiting to start kindergarten until she was six.  I should have waited with her.  She was only just learning her letters and how to write her name at 4.5- stuff that her older brothers did at 3.  That should have clued me in to the fact that she needed more time but I started her anyway.  So now I just need to remember that she still needs the extra time for everything.  It shouldn't surprise me I suppose.  :)

[Alicia64]

I highly suggest Teaching Textbooks. It's great for math-adverse people and could possibly turn her around. I haven't read all the posts. I'm also a math-adverse person and I've bent over backwards not to convey that to my sons.

 

Look into Teaching Textbooks -- you'll like it.

 

Alley

[EmilyGF]

Yes!  Honestly, I think DD would have benefited greatly from waiting to start kindergarten until she was six.  I should have waited with her.  She was only just learning her letters and how to write her name at 4.5- stuff that her older brothers did at 3.  That should have clued me in to the fact that she needed more time but I started her anyway.  So now I just need to remember that she still needs the extra time for everything.  It shouldn't surprise me I suppose.   :)

A child on our street had spent a year trying to learn to ride a bike. His mom was frustrated and angry. He was upset.

 

The neighbors across the street gave him a smaller bike. He learned to ride it in ten minutes. 

 

Similarly, when the curriculum fits the child, everything goes much better!

 

Emily

[redsquirrel]

I am glad things are moving along for her. And I think you should keep this in mind as she gets older and do not hesitate to get her a tutor or outsource as she gets older. An excited and engaged math teacher can do wonders for a kid.

 

Just replace the word 'math' and 'numbers' with 'reading' and 'letters'. What would you do and how seriously would you take it if she were having the same problems reading and decoding letters? I am guessing you would take it very seriously. I am NOT trying to imply you are not taking her current difficulties seriously, you clearly are. But keep in  mind that as she goes through school she needs to be able to do basic math and then at minimum algebra just as well as she can read and write. Most 4 year colleges require much more than 1 year of math. Sure, states may only require 1 year of algebra to graduate high school, but that's not what colleges want. A non competitive 4 year school prob wants three years of math and a competitive college is going to expect 4 with some of that being AP level. Plus, around 8th grade or so science becomes math based and she will have a difficult time with high school chemistry if she can't do algebra well. And while I know the SATs have been mentioned, there is also the GREs for grad school. I've known my fair share of people who didn't even try to get that much needed Master's degree because they hadn't taken a math class since high school and couldn't remember any of it.

 

So, yes, math is important if only because it can keep her from being able to do things she wants to do in the future. My husband is an academic librarian and he uses math and algebra all the time in his job. He also had to score really well on the math and logic sections of the GRE to get into his particular grad school to get that Master's degree in Library Science. I have a number of friends who have gone back to school in a 2 year nursing program and they are all taking math classes. I have another good friend who has gone back to school so she can get her Master's degree in science education with a biology focus. It is math, math, math, all the time.

[gardening momma]

Computer programming is also math-based. My first programming course was not, but the next one was.

 

Another field that may require math, depending on the job position: insurance. Dh is in this field. He majored/minored in computer science/music and has a strong background in math. He uses math a lot in his job. He frequently does computer programming/IT-type work in his job, although it's not really part of his job description. It just helps him a lot. Very recently, his company had him do a programming job relevant to his department that they would normally outsource to their programming/IT dept (not outsourcing outside the company), but they needed to get it done quickly and also didn't have money in the budget to designate/outsource the job to IT (they do track it in that way).

[OneStepAtATime]

Here is a thread regarding math that I and many others have found invaluable for outside the box thinking with regards to approaching math.  I highly recommend at least skimming through...

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499692-looking-to-do-some-relaxed-math-here-want-to-share-ideas/

 

Best wishes...

[mohop]

I just wanted to add that a relative recently gave my six-year-old DD a monopoly game as a present.  After a couple of 3-hour games, she is now remarkably good at adding numbers to the tens-place and hundreds-place.  Similarly, my 3-year old couldn't seem to remember her colors until we started playing Uno, and now she also can recognize all her numbers 1-9.  The games do help.  They don't even have to be specific math games.  I think if an older kid, in particular, sees practical applications for math, such as through the use of games, then she will not only start to pick it up, but she will WANT to learn it. 

 

If your daughter is showing more of an inclination to learn her math facts, you may also look into using Math Mammoth blue series as a supplement.  You can focus on a particular topic, it is affordable, and I have found the light blue series that we are using to be particularly good in drilling facts and showing different ways to conceptualize them. 

[solascriptura]

Math is absolutely essential to be a well educated person in any society. Does she need to be an math whiz? Of course not. However, if you want her to have the option of higher education, she will need to continue until she is done high school.

[sweetpea3829]

I absolutely believe this. I see this all the time, when a student is developmentally ready for the topic being covered. It's more like we are reminding a student instead of teaching them. When the brain is ready for something, it's as easy as drinking water. When the brain is not ready for something, we have to trick it into understanding, in ways that are a lot of work for us, never mind the student.

 

I love this...but I do have to throw in a bit of caution here.  IF there is a legitimate learning disability at play, it won't necessarily matter HOW long you wait.  

 

My husband, for example, will never be able to spell well, despite his developmental level, unless he were to have significant instruction with a spelling program geared specifically for dyslexics.  And even then, his spelling might not improve.

 

Likewise, with math, he received tutoring in his late 30's so that he could take and pass the GED, and while he DID learn the topics a bit more easily, he retained virtually none of it once his tutoring was done.  

 

I guess this is where my fear for my own DD comes into play.  What if she never really does get to a point where she can understand the value of coins and how to mentally add money?  

[Hunter]

I love this...but I do have to throw in a bit of caution here.  IF there is a legitimate learning disability at play, it won't necessarily matter HOW long you wait.  

 

My husband, for example, will never be able to spell well, despite his developmental level, unless he were to have significant instruction with a spelling program geared specifically for dyslexics.  And even then, his spelling might not improve.

 

Likewise, with math, he received tutoring in his late 30's so that he could take and pass the GED, and while he DID learn the topics a bit more easily, he retained virtually none of it once his tutoring was done.  

 

I guess this is where my fear for my own DD comes into play.  What if she never really does get to a point where she can understand the value of coins and how to mentally add money?  

 

Some students never do some things well. Period. When I face a situation like this, and I often do, the first thing I need to do is see the person as a whole. They deserve a balanced mind, body and soul curriculum, that is at their developmental level. I set realistic goals in each subject area, and don't let the LD instruction entirely eclipse areas that are strengths. Centering the curriculum on the LD turns the day into drudge and makes the student feel stupid.

 

Sometimes I need to put all the "catch up" stuff away, and just read to the student, or plan some art work, or go outside for a walk to the park. First off students are PEOPLE. PEOPLE need rhythm and balance and the chance to succeed at something they are good at. And recently I've realized how important it is to be allowed to be included in what everyone else is doing, even if we are kind of pretending. Hence my new focus on looking at spiral curricula. I cannot yet provide what I hope some day to provide in a spiral, to keep everyone feeling included, but I do what I can. I can at least keep the content in a spiral.

 

If a child has ONE area that is significantly behind others, they need to learn to be a team player, so they can have the opportunity to work with others with a different set of strengths and weaknesses. Instead of over focusing on the LD, I would schedule some character development lessons.

 

If a child is behind in everything, then they need to be taught that is okay, by the example of seeing Mom/instructor being okay with it. Mom/instructor needs to calmly set a plan of action to slowly and steadily work towards REALISTIC goals. Not all adults can be entirely independent.

 

I am not entirely independent and that causes me a lot of confusion about my right to exist on this planet. I was taught that the only people that have the right to exist are those that can financially support themselves or are wanted by people who can financially support them. There are those from my old life that are angry that I have dared to live, and don't think I have the right to be alive right now, unwanted by them or some other tax payer. Sometimes I believe them, but it's illegal to take the actions to bring about my demise, so then things get messy. We are in a catch 22 in this country where the same people who doubt the right of certain people to exist, also outlaw their removal from society.

 

So for a kid that might grow up not to be entirely independent, I think the primary thing I would want to teach them is that they have the right to be a financial burden. Even if you don't think it's true, because what choices are left to them as an adult, not to be "bad". People with these doubts are more expensive to maintain that those that just boldly are a drain on the taxpayers. Hospitalizing and supervising suicidal and self-harming people is VERY expensive.

 

Our current American ideas that dependent=bad makes for more stress in planning for students that are developmentally slower.

 

When i actually believed in the Declaration of Human Rights, it was easier to teach LD students. Now that I again so strongly question my right to exist, it makes it harder for me to vehemently declare their right to exist, and to plan a curriculum accordingly. But since planning a curriculum based on them not having a right to exist is pretty much impossible, I just kinda sorta pretend I do believe, and do the best I can to deal with the here and NOW, and treat them good. Treating them good makes us all less expensive.

[OneStepAtATime]

For anyone interested, the book "My 13th Winter" by Samantha Abeel was written by a woman who struggled with math all her life but is very intelligent.  It is an interesting read.  She also wrote a book of poetry that I recommend.

 

http://www.amazon.com/My-Thirteenth-Winter-A-Memoir/dp/0439339057

 

http://www.amazon.com/Reach-Moon-Samantha-Abeel/dp/1570250138/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=16KYFC96MGE2B32TXF3H

[happybeachbum]

Math is like yeast. You need enough of it to leaven the rest of the curriculum.

 

Most people who hate math, have been forced to do math at a level above their developmental level. I'd hate running too, of I was forced to run farther and faster than my muscles were developed, and limbs were long enough. I'd hate ice cream if I were forced to eat more than I was hungry for. I could go on and on.

 

Back up. Get developmentally appropriate. Plan a WHOLE curriculum that doesn't CENTER on math, but does INCLUDE what is NECESSARY.

I know this post is old

 

I think that happened to me in Catholic School in 1-2 grade. I failed math, but was an excellent reader because of my mom who struggled with reading herself ( I think undiagnosed dyslexia) she is a whiz at math even re - wired my grandmother's whole house as a teen though she struggled in math because she could see the answer, but had a hard time showing her work. She did so bad in high school sshe planned on not going to college. The only reason she did was because she had me. Plus my father died leaving her a single mother. When she did go she found college was way better than high school. Anyway with math she (at least what she tells me) taught me was informal though I don't remember. Apparently she explained fractions to me with a pie. My mom told me recently if it weren't for her having to work I would have been homeschooled at least until a certain grade.

 

In Catholic School we learned arithmetic a head of other grades. I remember learning long division in second. I couldn't understand it and was standing to think I was stupid.

 

I was later put in public school for third because my mom couldn't afford the tuition anymore. We took a test to see what we knew. I thought I was going to fail aand what do you know it all clicked. Of course my mom had me held back a grade. Maybe should have told her it made sense now but at 8 I didn't think of it. For years I believed that I failed at arithmetic struggled every year and then understood it the next year because of exposure until fairly recently learning about brain development. It really clicked after watching Paul Ziegler ' s video.

 

And then I thought back to friends in high school especially around 14 or 15 who would ask why is it I've learned this same thing dang near 8 -9 years and it's just now clicking.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I tend to agree with Hunter in her first post where she said some things don't necessarily improve by making them more "fun," and sometimes simpler is better.  

 

FOR ME, I would find juggling multiple things overwhelming and difficult to steer in any particular direction.

 

I would recommend, as others have on this thread, a program like Right Start, and I'd start in B or even A for a truly math phobic 8yo.  Rightstart integrates games, so there is no guessing about which game is right for the topics in play.  It has very little writing, and for a math phobic parent, it is completely scripted.  It is very manipulative heavy.  

 

If you don't want to switch curriculums, it may at least be worth watching the videos at educationunboxed.com, which are wonderful.  If they spark your and your daughter's interest, there are a few math curriculums out there based on cuisinaire rods, or you can add them to any standard curriculum.   

[happybeachbum]

I also wonder if it would be better for children to have the same teacher for at least the first 2 or three grades. Going fro 1st to second was a traumatic experience for me. Second grade was just traumatic period. But that's a whole other long story.

 

I love the ideas of Right Start, Shiller, Math on the Level etc. The would have been awesome for me in elementary.

Edited September 2, 2016 by happybeachbum

[Sarah0000]

I do not require my son to memorize math facts either, just be able to calculate the answer quickly using whatever strategy most makes sense for the situation. It's been easier on him since we picked a strategy that makes the most sense to him and, for the most part, are consistent with using that strategy. For adding single digit numbers the strategy is to make a ten. For adding multidigit to multidigit numbers the strategy is to subtract or add to the second number to make it an even ten, then add, then add or subtract to make it equal again. That sounds complicated written out like that but if you show it with c rods or with expanded notation its simple.

[sweetpea3829]

Some students never do some things well. Period. When I face a situation like this, and I often do, the first thing I need to do is see the person as a whole. They deserve a balanced mind, body and soul curriculum, that is at their developmental level. I set realistic goals in each subject area, and don't let the LD instruction entirely eclipse areas that are strengths. Centering the curriculum on the LD turns the day into drudge and makes the student feel stupid.

 

Sometimes I need to put all the "catch up" stuff away, and just read to the student, or plan some art work, or go outside for a walk to the park. First off students are PEOPLE. PEOPLE need rhythm and balance and the chance to succeed at something they are good at. And recently I've realized how important it is to be allowed to be included in what everyone else is doing, even if we are kind of pretending. Hence my new focus on looking at spiral curricula. I cannot yet provide what I hope some day to provide in a spiral, to keep everyone feeling included, but I do what I can. I can at least keep the content in a spiral.

 

If a child has ONE area that is significantly behind others, they need to learn to be a team player, so they can have the opportunity to work with others with a different set of strengths and weaknesses. Instead of over focusing on the LD, I would schedule some character development lessons.

 

If a child is behind in everything, then they need to be taught that is okay, by the example of seeing Mom/instructor being okay with it. Mom/instructor needs to calmly set a plan of action to slowly and steadily work towards REALISTIC goals. Not all adults can be entirely independent.

 

I am not entirely independent and that causes me a lot of confusion about my right to exist on this planet. I was taught that the only people that have the right to exist are those that can financially support themselves or are wanted by people who can financially support them. There are those from my old life that are angry that I have dared to live, and don't think I have the right to be alive right now, unwanted by them or some other tax payer. Sometimes I believe them, but it's illegal to take the actions to bring about my demise, so then things get messy. We are in a catch 22 in this country where the same people who doubt the right of certain people to exist, also outlaw their removal from society.

 

So for a kid that might grow up not to be entirely independent, I think the primary thing I would want to teach them is that they have the right to be a financial burden. Even if you don't think it's true, because what choices are left to them as an adult, not to be "bad". People with these doubts are more expensive to maintain that those that just boldly are a drain on the taxpayers. Hospitalizing and supervising suicidal and self-harming people is VERY expensive.

 

Our current American ideas that dependent=bad makes for more stress in planning for students that are developmentally slower.

 

When i actually believed in the Declaration of Human Rights, it was easier to teach LD students. Now that I again so strongly question my right to exist, it makes it harder for me to vehemently declare their right to exist, and to plan a curriculum accordingly. But since planning a curriculum based on them not having a right to exist is pretty much impossible, I just kinda sorta pretend I do believe, and do the best I can to deal with the here and NOW, and treat them good. Treating them good makes us all less expensive.

 

 

Hunter, I just wanted to say...I don't know why, but somehow I either missed this post or saw it and planned on coming back but was swept away in the tidal wave that is life (around here especially in the last few months).  

 

Noticing the date and how long ago it was...gah!  

 

Anyways...I wanted to speak to what you said about feeling like you don't have a right to exist because you are not entirely self-sufficient.  I mean...you posted that 2 years ago and I don't know where you are in that regard now...

 

But...I just wanted you to know that, imo, of course you have a right to exist.  And what does it mean to be entirely self-sufficient anyways?  You know what?  I'm not entirely self-sufficient.  I rely on my husband for many many things...like fixing our vehicles, mowing the lawn, building and repairing things, moving heavy furniture.  

 

I couldn't do those things without him (except mowing the lawn).  

 

And I know that you meant self-sufficient in the sense of financial independence, etc....but again.  What exactly does that mean?  When DH broke his leg, we had no choice but to go on assistance.  We were not financially independent for those 7 months he was out of work.  Did our right to exist cease?  No.  Of course not.  And neither has yours.  

 

There is value in ALL lives...regardless of ability.  I truly believe that, and I hope you are at a point now where you do too.  

 

 

As for my own LD daughter...she is still trekking through, you know?  Sometimes I think of her future and I worry for her.  Because even though she's able to count money now...she still has VERY poor reasoning.  But other times, I know she'll be fine.  And maybe "being fine" means she needs me to come over and help her balance her checkbook.  I don't know.  But at the end of it...she's going to be ok.  

 

So...anyways...whomever bumped this thread back up...lol, thank-you!  

[Hunter]

Two years. What do I now believe about human worth? Wow, a lot has happened in this 2 years and lot of it wasn't good. What we see and experience changes our worldview. Humans are designed to believe what they see in the eyes of others. I am human. Sometimes I react exactly as I was designed to react. People look into my eyes with the belief that my survival is a personal attack on them. They are angry I exist. Deep in my core, I do believe them. The looks are by too many and happen too often for me not to absorb the social conditioning I was designed to absorb.

 

But over the past two years something did change. I no longer believe that all the independent people have the right to exist just because they are independent. I question the right of any human to exist. I don't talk a lot about this stuff, because it gets labels thrown at me like sociopath. I had to look that that word up, did some research on that, and have a whole lot of opinions about that that are totally off topic and not appropriate for this forum.

 

Because I no longer have any sense of "right" and "wrong", with that cloud stripped away, whether something is efficient or not is now glaringly noticeable to me. I think some people want to slap me if they hear me say, "That is not efficient!" one more time.

 

They yell stuff at me like, "Who the hell cares if it is efficient, it is WRONG!!! Please tell me you know it is WRONG!"

 

I got badly burned last week. I got scalded from wrist to arm pit and hip to arm pit, and a lot of that area is covered with first and second degree burns. It is day 10 and the full thickness 2nd degree burns are still bleeding and draining. A lot happened in how I got injured and how onlookers and medical and other professionals dealt with the incident and the results of the incident. I have a whole book of stories.

 

There has been a lot of screaming, "That was WRONG. Say you know that was wrong!!!" People remind me of the weather. Bad weather is inevitable. Weather is not directed at ME even if it hurts me. First weather is weather in itself. It just is. The people doing what they do, I feel no more reaction to them, than I would bad weather. They just are.

 

Even before the burns. Too many looks. Too much anger. Too many people injuring me with the belief they have the right. I guess it overwhelmed me at some point. Things just ARE now. Without judgement. Without reaction and emotion.

 

What does this have to do with math? A lot really. There is no other school subject where I hear people say the things they do, and where they act this inefficiently. As teachers and as a society, we are terribly inefficient about how we teach math and how we deal with the reality of the math skills of the average adult. One of the most inefficient things we do is punish and shame and frighten and deny basic needs. We weaken members of our society instead of using them to their full potential. We discard flawed individuals instead of using them. We don't play as a team.

 

Unless we start euthanizing flawed people, we need to learn how to better deal with the fact that not all people are going to be able to do math at the levels we wish they could. We can structure our country to be better team players. We are choosing to make it happen that lower math abilities mean people go without their basic needs met, and without their basic needs met, become increasingly unuseful. That is a choice by the people in power. An inefficient choice.

 

And everyone of us, what is in our eyes when we look at people with lower math abilities, we shape what they believe about themselves and humans as a whole. Math is one small piece of the curriculum and our lives. We choose how we let that small piece affect the whole.

 

I know I harp on this, but health is the most important thing we can give a student. No skill is more helpful than health. It is inefficient not to place heath as our top priority.

 

What do you want your student to believe about herself and humans in general? Is what you are doing in math likely to encourage that thinking? What does your student see in your eyes as you are teaching math? What are the results of her believing you?

 

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Hunter

[El...]

Oh, Hunter, burns hurt so much.  I'm sorry you are hurt. 

 

I think our teaching behaviors are deeply shaped by our core beliefs about the students in front of us. 

[sweetpea3829]

Oh honey, I'm so sorry you've been burned.  :-(  My guy who graces my avatar pic badly burned his hands on the monkey bars a few weeks ago (because his dummy mom just wasn't paying attention to the fact that we were on an OLDER playground that still had metal structures).  He was in quite a bit of pain, just from the two half-dollar size burns on his hands.  I can't imagine having a deeper burn on such a large part of your body.  :-(  

 

 

And I'm sorry you've been burned by life.  From what you are sharing here...I think you're in a place of thinking that's far deeper than most of us ever venture.  Metacognitively, what are "rights" and who gets to determine who has them and who doesn't?  What is "power" and who decided it to be so?  These are really deep thoughts.  What is "wrong" and who gets to say so?  Again...very deep.  

 

For me, my guide on these issues revolves around my belief in God, but if I did not have that belief system (which, btw, I chose as an adult), I'm not sure I would be able to come up with any kind of valid platform one way or the other on these issues.  Sociologically, what is "right" and "wrong" changes...and is currently changing.  One need only view the current opinions on any matter of hot button topics of the day.  

 

Anyways...I hope you feel better soon and have somebody helping you recover.  

[Hunter]

Yup, different societies have very different ideas of what is right and wrong. I'm fine with any society's beliefs as long as those beliefs are consistent and efficient. They don't even have to be "fair" beliefs, if they can be sustained. Modern USA is awfully inconsistent and inefficient right now. I don't think the current situation is sustainable. It is going to be interesting to see what happens over the next 10 years. I think things are about to implode.

 

In my life, there always seems to be balance. When the worst things happen, they are followed by the best things. It is weird that way. Things have been surreal the past 2 weeks. I'm just going along for the ride and not stressing, even if the people around me are stressing extra over the fact that I am not stressing more. I'm almost 50. My life has been extra eventful. I'm too tired and too used to all this to waste energy on getting riled up. Drama is boring. I'm trying to skip the drama part.

 

Sweetpea, are your little guy's hands better? Poor baby!

 

Elroisees and Sweetpea, thank you!

[sweetpea3829]

Yup, different societies have very different ideas of what is right and wrong. I'm fine with any society's beliefs as long as those beliefs are consistent and efficient. They don't even have to be "fair" beliefs, if they can be sustained. Modern USA is awfully inconsistent and inefficient right now. I don't think the current situation is sustainable. It is going to be interesting to see what happens over the next 10 years. I think things are about to implode.

 

In my life, there always seems to be balance. When the worst things happen, they are followed by the best things. It is weird that way. Things have been surreal the past 2 weeks. I'm just going along for the ride and not stressing, even if the people around me are stressing extra over the fact that I am not stressing more. I'm almost 50. My life has been extra eventful. I'm too tired and too used to all this to waste energy on getting riled up. Drama is boring. I'm trying to skip the drama part.

 

Sweetpea, are your little guy's hands better? Poor baby!

 

Elroisees and Sweetpea, thank you!

 

They are!  He had second degree burns (can you believe that?  From monkey bars!), but they've pretty much healed.  Some scarring on the palms, but I think they'll fade as he gets older.  

 

Worst part for him was having to stay out of the water for awhile.  He has Olympic aspirations, dontchaknow....lol.  Luckily, swim team doesn't start for another week, and he's cleared to be back in the water.  

 

Thanks for asking!  And get better soon!  

[Hunter]

Humans are very burnable. And pretty fragile in general. But damn, our skin comes off easily, especially. Poor little guy. That is not your fault! Stuff just happens sometimes.

[Bluegoat]

Okay, I'm going to repeat what I basically suggested in another thread on math:  consider not requiring her to memorize the math facts.

 

My DD13 has ALWAYS had trouble memorizing math facts.  So did DH.  DH double-majored in engineering and math in college, and has tutored (in college and in life since) peers and kids in math, despite not having memorized math facts when he was a kid.  Like DD, he counted on his fingers.  He has the math facts memorized now (including some higher-level numbers and functions introduced in college), but that came gradually, sneakily, in the background as he focused on more advanced math.

 

Some people's brains just don't seem to work that way, won't store rote memorization.  They need a purpose for the information before their brains will store it and build the connections for later retrieval.  Exposure -- over time (years) -- to real-life uses of such information will give the brain enough examples of need for it to decide to retain and be able to retrieve math facts.  And that will lead to a gradual memorization, occurring sub- or un-consciously, as the student focuses on further math topics and real-life applications.

 

In the meantime kids who have this difficulty are often held back in math, even though they quickly grasp concepts that are much more advanced.  This happened with DD in brick&mortar school, much to her aggravation and frustration.  The only thing that mitigated her hurt over being held back and yet bored was one of her close friends was in the same boat with her.

 

As long as your DD is forced to continue to try to do something she can't do she is going to hate math.  Math is vital to everyday life, and to further studies in college.  But in college and real life most people use calculators for the base calculations, since even a math fact wiz can make mistakes, in arithmetic. 

 

My advice:  switch gears, and don't make a big deal about memorizing math facts.  Instead give her games and other ways of using manipulatives and real-life examples to practice arithmetic.  Continue on with math past the facts she's not getting memorized -- she might surprise you how quickly she picks up concepts that boggle others.  Let her use math fact charts for a reference while working on more advanced math concepts.  Separate math fact work entirely from the rest of math class.

 

Do this and she just might start enjoying math.  She will at least feel a lot less stress, once the impossible (as it likely seems to her) is no longer such a big deal.

 

yes, this is my experience with my eldest dd, and in hindsight part of my math dislike as well as a child.  My poor dd was getting so bored and frustrated with trying to memorize math facts, and every strategy seemed ineffective. 

 

What we found is that we needed to move on without having them memorized, in part because it was just deafeningly boring, but also because it was in doing the wok that things started to stick a little better.

 

Age also played a role - the year she began puberty her ability to remember math facts seemed to take a large leap.

[MeganW]

For each lesson, I take two weeks.  I don't wait for her to master the lesson.  If I did...she'd never move forward.  Seriously, we'd still be working on counting.  The first week, we watch the video and do the MUS worksheets.  The second week, I play math games with her that reinforce the new material.  I give her mixed review worksheets twice a week, which focus on all math concepts she's learned so far.  I give her another worksheet twice a week with a skill she really struggles with (like putting numbers in ascending or descending order).  During the school year, I give her word problems to practice every day.  Two or three times a week, I give her a drill page with addition or subtraction (or mixed) problems to work on, to help her eventually memorize those math facts.  She IS actually memorizing some of them!  

 

Two or three times a week, I give her some kind of logic or critical thinking or visual integration activity.  This is to help increase brain flexibility (if that makes sense).  It might be a maze, or a hidden pictures, or a sudoku, or something from one of our logic workbooks.  

 

You are an AWESOME momma!!  It's hard having kids with challenges, and worrying about their future, and worrying about judgement from others.  But it sounds like you are doing an AMAZING job of really giving this sweet kiddo the very very best!!  So, go get yourself a piece of chocolate and enjoy it with a pat on the back - you deserve it!  :)  

[Minerva]

 

What do you want your student to believe about herself and humans in general? Is what you are doing in math likely to encourage that thinking? What does your student see in your eyes as you are teaching math? What are the results of her believing you?

 

:001_wub:

 

Love this!

[AMJ]

yes, this is my experience with my eldest dd, and in hindsight part of my math dislike as well as a child.  My poor dd was getting so bored and frustrated with trying to memorize math facts, and every strategy seemed ineffective. 

 

What we found is that we needed to move on without having them memorized, in part because it was just deafeningly boring, but also because it was in doing the wok that things started to stick a little better.

 

Age also played a role - the year she began puberty her ability to remember math facts seemed to take a large leap.

 

 

LIKE.

 

I'm out of likes for the day, so I'm giving mine in a response instead.   :001_smile: