Intentionally including technology in your kids' education - How do you prioritize what to include?

[lewelma]

I've edited the title again. :001_smile:  I guess I am having trouble figuring out what I really want to figure out! 
 
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Original post:
 
Bluesage got me thinking again, and I'm hoping to start a discussion of pros and cons of using technology for educational purposes. Here is the post that got me thinking (hope you don't mind, Bluesage, that I copied it here.)
 

A website and blog he maintains would be better, IMHO, because, like it or not, we are immersed in the age of technology. Many universities require online portfolios now, and it would be a great way to show his progress. Too, he loves using the computer, as do I. I earned my PhD in Instructional Technology, so I know first-hand that we are quickly moving away from consumables into the digital world. He wants to be a computer engineer or architect. He will need as much hands-on technology as I can provide to succeed in both college and the workforce. Even at UT, all our work was submitted electronically within the Blackboard program. We never turned in paper copies of anything, and as an instructor, I provided handouts, notes, feedback, and grades through the same system. Gone are the days of overflowing filing cabinets, binders, and backpacks full of notebooks. Now we just have laptops or tablets and a textbook, many of which are also digital now. Of course, I'm still a proponent of hands-on learning, and I don't want my son stuck in front of the computer all day, so I thought maintaining his own website with his dialectical reading response journal and blog about what he's learning would be a great way to incorporate technology. Believe it or not, kindergartners are learning to create their own websites! I've seen amazing things in regard to technology in education if it's used properly. :)

 
Just for some background:
 
Right now my older (13) does:
2 AoPS classes using Latex, Geogebra, and wolfram alpha;
types all his papers (but prints them out);
programs a bit;
googles topics he is interested in; and
uses chinese online dictionaries and writing apps
 
Younger (10)
types papers
emails grandpa
dabbles in Hogwarts is here
Uses Cambridge Latin multimedia material
 
Both will be doing the Linux class for the next few months.
Both read all literature on their Kindles
 
What we do not do:
facebook, blogging, moving making, or basically any multimedia *creation*
Hardware or software installation, viruses, defrag, backups, etc
educational games or drill - quizlet etc
online textbooks
track, turn-in, and mark-up assignments on computer
personal cell phones
 
All math, science, mandarin, and latin is done in good old fashion paper notebooks.  With pencils. And we use paper flashcards.
 
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So although we use quite a bit of technology, we are not using it to the extent that bluesage is talking about. My own personal observations is that the students that I tutor in math and science use technology (cell phones, tablets, etc) all the time, but not effectively for education.  They cannot read textbooks online, so they don't bother.  They do on-line math homework, but seem to retain little of it.  They make multimedia presentations, but this seems to take way more time than what they get out of it - basically it appears to be busy work.  Clearly, I'm working with kids who need a tutor, so definitely a subset, but I'm getting the impression from many parents that technology in the classroom is not being effectively implemented.
 
What I want to discuss is what is gained and lost by using technology heavily in education. If you spend time creating multimedia presentations, you are learning ICT skills but losing time for other things.  There are pros and cons to everything.  You can't just add more to the curricula and not take stuff out. 
 
I see a lot of people talk about textbooks going all online very soon, but it seems to me to be more of a way to save money rather than a way to improve education.  Yes, online textbooks have videos and links etc, but they are also quite difficult to study from if you are talking about AP physics! 
 
I also find that just having my answers to physics on my phone, means that every time I need to check my work, I am tempted to surf a bit.  I am much more focused without the temptation, and I can't see how kids would be much different.
 
So what exactly do kids *need* to do to be technology literate? What are you willing to take out to make room for more ICT?  And what are the positives and negatives to this change in our lives?  I want to make sure that my kids are well prepared for the future, but also want to insure that their education does not suffer in the process.
 
Ruth in NZ

[regentrude]

What I want to discuss is what is gained and lost by using technology heavily in education. If you spend time creating multimedia presentations, you are learning ICT skills but losing time for other things.  There are pros and cons to everything.  You can't just add more to the curricula and not take stuff out. 

I see a lot of people talk about textbooks going all online very soon, but it seems to me to be more of a way to save money rather than a way to improve education.  Yes, online textbooks have videos and links etc, but they are also quite difficult to study from if you are talking about AP physics! 

 

I also find that just having my answers to physics on my phone, means that every time I need to check my work, I am tempted to surf a bit.  I am much more focused without the temptation, and I can't see how kids would be much different.

 

So what exactly do kids *need* to do to be technology literate? What are you willing to take out to make room for more ICT?  And what are the positives and negatives to this change in our lives?  I want to make sure that my kids are well prepared for the future, but also want to insure that their education does not suffer in the process.

 

First I would like to address a comment from the post you quoted:

Even at UT, all our work was submitted electronically within the Blackboard program. We never turned in paper copies of anything, and as an instructor, I provided handouts, notes, feedback, and grades through the same system. Gone are the days of overflowing filing cabinets, binders, and backpacks full of notebooks. Now we just have laptops or tablets and a textbook, many of which are also digital now.

 

Actually, 99% of my college students do take their notes with a real pencil/pen on real paper. The students taking notes on a tablet are in a tiny minority. So yes, there are still plenty of paper notebooks and printouts. Same for homework - less than 1% of the students use electronic devices to work out their physics problems. Even in courses where the homework answer is submitted electronically to an automated grading system (with all the issues this brings, most importantly the poor quality on the feedback for the entire context rich problem), they have to work it out first... on paper.

The essays my DD had to submit for her English courses were submitted to Blackboard - but for thorough editing, everybody printed out the papers repeatedly before submitting a final electronic copy.

 

 

But, to get back to the OP's question:

I see technology as a tool, not a separate content area. Most software is actually quite easily mastered. The student should have no fear of the computer, should be encouraged to explore software by trying out stuff, and should have a basic knowledge of commonly used software - be familiar with a word processing program, with a graphing program, a spreadsheet program, a drawing program.

There is really nothing *to* it. It is fun to make a powerpoint presentation, and any student who wants to can easily learn how to use the program by doing so. There is nothing abut computer use that requires students to be specifically trained from kindergarten age on. I found that kids are quite savvy at picking up skills when they are given free access to a computer and the opportunity to mess around with programs. Mine taught themselves all kinds of things I have no clue about.

 

We have incorporated technology use into our regular education and the kids learn what they need to use when they need to use it. They learned to use Word by typing their history and English essays; Excel for physics lab; LaTeX in chemistry lab; Powerpoint for history presentations, Fortran when they want to do program a simulation; html when they want to make a website.

 

That's the same way *I* learned all the computer skills I ever needed. I learned programming when I had to program numerical simulations for my dissertation project. I will have to teach an online course this fall, and so I am currently learning to use a software package for video recording and editing to create my lecture videos. I learn it by trying out stuff and playing around with the program. I learn it now because I need it now; I could not have effectively mastered the software three years ago when I would have had no need to spend weeks working with it on a specific project - even the best class at that point would have been completely useless  My DH taught himself parallel computing and how to build a computer cluster from scratch when he needed to do it.

So, I really think giving the students access to the technology and a task is all that is needed to master software.

 

But we have made a specific effort to teach them the hardware side; both kids have built computers from parts.

 

What we do not do:

...

Hardware or software installation, viruses, defrag, backups, etc

 

I would consider these vital skills for any student to have. They need to be able to install software (not a big deal, again, but intimidating when they have never done it), run anti virus software, etc. Doing regular backups is the kind of computer hygiene habit akin to brushing one's teeth or changing oil on the car.

Mastering the software is only one side of the equation - they also need to maintain the machine on which they run it. So I  would recommend that you involve the kids in installations, backups, virus scans to familiarize them with these procedures. I found  that a more deliberate effort is needed to teach this side of things than the software which they will simply use (worst thing that can happen is that the program crashes) - messing with the system installations requires some adult oversight because there you can really mess up stuff.

 

Technology tools can enhance learning if used judiciously; but also, very often, its purpose is just convenience, not enhanced learning. There is nothing inherently more valuable about a video lecture or an online textbook than a live lecture or paper textbook other than convenience of access. Which is good, but not really a fundamental difference. There is nothing I need to teach a kid about using an online textbook or video lecture, the process of absorbing the information is still the same: they need to read, listen, take notes.

 

What is maybe one of the most important skills to acquire is to not succumb to the distractions offered by technology, and not to have a false sense of security from having, for example, electronic copies of lectures and lecture notes. I noticed that many students have a false sense of knowledge just because they have a paper handout; that's now worse because they have so much more information in electronic form. Well, you still don't know it just because you have a paper or the bytes. Having access to information is not the same as possessing knowledge - and this is maybe the most important lesson about technology use we need to teach the kids.

 

I am not worried about the rest. They'll teach themselves. We can not possibly anticipate what kind of technology they will have available ten years from now - so we can't possibly teach them to use all the stuff they will need as adults. New things will come out all the time. None of us grew up with laptops, tablets or smart phones - yet somehow we were able to figure them out, right? I don't think that learning to use punch cards in college did contribute anything towards my present day technology skills. So, maybe encouraging openness and experimentation is the best thing we can do - basically teach them how to learn. So, classical education principles apply here, too :-)

[merylvdm]

experimentation is the best thing we can do - basically teach them how to learn. So, classical education principles apply here, too :-)

 

 

I think that line really hits the nail on the head. I teach a Speech class at our local co op. I make them do a presentation using a slideshow. I teach them the principles of how to make an effective slideshow but I don't teach them how to actually go about creating one. They should be able to figure that out even if they haven't done one before. Most just go ahead but some struggle because they have not been taught how to learn. 

 

 I like everything regentrude said. My kids also learned Word, Excel, moviemaking, website creation etc as they needed it for what they were doing. All of my kids used those skills to make money while they were in middle and high school. When they got to college and then into the workplace they were never faced with anything technology-related they couldn't cope with.

 

But despite being a high-tech family in many ways, you will still find all of us using "low tech" when it serves our purpose better - some of us prefer paper books, taking notes on paper etc. 

[lewelma]

So how many assignments should require technology, in order for your children to have enough opportunities to be technologically competent? 

 

And what kind of breadth should be considered?  For example, my older knows all sorts of math programs, but should I ask him to make a movie, blog, etc?  The assignments I give would dictate their exposure.

[regentrude]

So how many assignments in my homeschool should require technology in order for you children to have enough opportunities to be technologically competent? 

And what kind of breadth should be considered?  For example, my older knows all sorts of math programs, but should I ask him to make a movie, blog, etc?  The assignments I give would dictate their exposure.

 

I would turn it around. I do not decide how many assignments I give so that the assignments suffice to master the technology - that is putting the cart before the horse. I decide the number of assignments necessary to master the content and skill they should develop and let them use the technology as a tool to accomplish the main educational goal (mastering essay writing, analyzing lab data).

 

I do not assign the number of essays required so that they can master typing, and I do not select physics lab experiments so that they have enough work with data spreadsheets to master Excel! They will use the tools to the extent that is appropriate for my educational goals, and with some software products, that will merely create exposure, not mastery.

I do not assign media creation just so they can create media. If your son wants to make a movie to illustrate something or blog about something to transmit information, I would encourage that - but I would not artificially create assignments so he can use the tool. That would be like selecting a crafts project based on the criterion that it should include the use of scissors, hot glue, and pink paint - and not based on what you want to make.

 

The skill needed to blog is writing. I teach writing. If my child would like to use the tool "blogging" in the process of learning to write, I'd give him the opportunity to do so. But I don't create assignments to teach "blogging". That's not a separate skill. If he has learned to write, he will be able to blog just fine.

[lewelma]

I see what you are saying, but if I only give writing assignments, my kids will only use a word processor.  Neither one of them has the creative juices to say, "I'd rather express myself in a movie."  It just is not going to happen.  So in some regard the assignments *do* dictate the exposure to technology. 

 

I just brought up the idea of a blog to my younger who said "what is that" and when I told him that he could publish his work on the internet and include photos and decorative details, he was interested.  But he is not going to know about these things unless I tell him.  I think this is where a homeschool is at a disadvantage.  At school kids can get ideas and enthusiasm from all the other students; in my home they are going to get them from their parents.  So I do think I need to think through their exposure or I just won't ever bring it up the possibilities or assign them anything that requires technology.

[lewelma]

Here is a little vignette that got me thinking a few years ago. My older boy entered his oceanography science fair project into the regional science fair.  It was one of TWO projects out of 500 that had hand drawn graphs (the other was the Steiner kid).  But I looked around and saw a LOT of really poor graphing -- like they had a tool, played with it, and did not actually know how to *graph* effectively. Too many graphs, no summary graphs, too cluttered, etc.  Obviously not all of them, but enough to make me go :huh:

 

I taught my kid graphing skills.  He did not ALSO have time to learn the graphing program that year.  My son won 1st place.

 

My point it that there is not time for everything.  There just is not.  And I agree that I would rather teach writing than blogging because writing is the core skill and they can pick up blogging any time they want.  But on the other hand, I naturally tend towards these base skills at the expense of technological skills.  I just view them as more foundational, so they always get prioritized. This has ramifications to my kids and their ability/interest in ICT. So for *me* I do need to think through the extent of technology exposure that I want to provide, or I will naturally provide very little.

 

And perhaps this does not matter.  But perhaps it does.

[regentrude]

I see what you are saying, but if I only give writing assignments, my kids will only use a word processor.  Neither one of them has the creative juices to say, "I'd rather express myself in a movie."  It just is not going to happen.  So in some regard the assignments *do* dictate the exposure to technology. 

 

I just brought up the idea of a blog to my younger who said "what is that" and when I told him that he could publish his work on the internet and include photos and decorative details, he was interested.  But he is not going to know about these things unless I tell him.  I think this is where a homeschool is at a disadvantage.  At school kids can get ideas and enthusiasm from all the other students; in my home they are going to get them from their parents.  So I do think I need to think through their exposure or I just won't ever bring it up the possibilities or assign them anything that requires technology.

 

If he does not want to express himself in a movie, I do not consider it a crucial skill to learn how to make one. Once he wants to, he can always learn then.

With the blogging: I do not think that homeschooling has to mean less exposure. My kids don't go to school, but they have liberal access to computers and the internet. They come across blogs and movies and see that people out there are doing these things - it's not something I have to make an effort to expose them to. I just need to permit free exploration. My DD has a blog; I have never seen it, she figured out how to do it. My DS decided that he wants to run a gaming server to play multiplayer games with his friends- so he figured out how to set up and run the server. I have no clue about that and have not exposed him to this possibility - I simply permitted him to game and be online, and he got the idea by himself. He might have asked his dad some specific question.

 

My kids have friends from whom they can get ideas and enthusiasm - you don't need school for that.

[Farrar]

Just tossing out two things...

 

A study from earlier this year showing that taking notes by hand was much more effective than doing it on the computer was much discussion and written about.  Here's one quick take on it:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/05/24/taking-notes-bring-pen-skip-computer/e3kGp47M7znyaNKOamUwrO/story.html

 

Also, this article about how absurdly wrong giving every student a laptop went for one school district really sums up my experience of technology in the classroom for K-12 level schools.  It's a huge, huge waste of time and money that comes at the expense of time that isn't spent on things that really do matter:

http://www.wnyc.org/story/why-hoboken-throwing-away-all-its-student-laptops/?utm_content=buffera2fa9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[lewelma]

I guess your kids are just more motivated about technology than mine.  Or perhaps they are just older?   My kids' friends mostly play video games for fun, and other technology uses are for school projects.

 

I tutored a 16-year old boy last year, and he was starting to have school assignments that assumed that he could use and/or figure out how to use the technology that was required to get the assignment done.  He could not.  He had not had the forced exposure or personal interested to make it happen when he was younger, and now at 16 considered himself not technologically competent.  Sure, it was an attitude thing, but it definitely affected him moving forward in gaining IT confidence and skills.

 

Perhaps I have nothing to worry about, I just want to think it through before I say it will all be ok if I just let it be.

[lewelma]

Just tossing out two things...

 

A study from earlier this year showing that taking notes by hand was much more effective than doing it on the computer was much discussion and written about.  Here's one quick take on it:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/05/24/taking-notes-bring-pen-skip-computer/e3kGp47M7znyaNKOamUwrO/story.html

 

Also, this article about how absurdly wrong giving every student a laptop went for one school district really sums up my experience of technology in the classroom for K-12 level schools.  It's a huge, huge waste of time and money that comes at the expense of time that isn't spent on things that really do matter:

http://www.wnyc.org/story/why-hoboken-throwing-away-all-its-student-laptops/?utm_content=buffera2fa9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

Well, I completely agree with this.  Which is why the Bluesage's post, which I started this thread with, made me want to stop and think and assess.

 

We really focus on basic skills over here - deep reading, thoughtful writing, and insightful math skills.  ICT is pretty low on my priorities.

[regentrude]

I guess your kids are just more motivated about technology than mine.  Or perhaps they are just older?

 

They are older NOW, but they liked using the computer even when they were younger. It is just... fun.

The first day my DS was homeschooled in 5th grade, I had to go in to work for a few hours, and he asked me whether he might have his sister teach him Powerpoint. When I came home, he had created a presentation about the battle of Thermopylae :-)

 

In the middle grades, I always gave my kids a choice how they wanted to demonstrate mastery in history and science. They have done numerous oral presentations with ppt visuals, DD has created a poster on Renaissance astronomy on the computer (that we then had printed and laminated), or they would type reports. Basically any "product" they created to show mastery involved some kind of computer application.

I found the middle grades (5th through 8th) fantastic for this purpose, because we had so much more freedom. Now in high school, there are certain things were are expected to cover, back then, they could just pick what they wanted to learn and do whatever projects they wanted to do and it was fine. Technology use just came naturally. After all, they see us parents use the computer to do things... so naturally they want to do the same.

[lewelma]

Maybe just giving them the choice is the key.  I just tell them to write a paper.

 

 

[Farrar]

I think I probably fall where many people on this board fall...

 

I feel that technology is good and important and useful.  I don't shield my kids from it and I encourage opportunities for them to learn technology skills.  However, in the end, I feel that the old fashioned critical thinking, writing, and math skills, along with a solid map of information on which to hang your hat being built into your brain is paramount.  Those skills will transfer when it counts.  Skills that are focused on specific technologies are like being able to use a mimeograph machine or a printing press.  Useful to a point, but not broad based skills.

 

When we're able to bring the two pieces together, such as when I've let my kids do pixel art for their school art or when they've used storytelling or explainer apps to summarize and synthesize information, I think that's brilliant.  However, in the end, there is no substitute for being able to write well, to do higher math, to be able to read and analyze and discuss, etc.  And I would rather focus on the simplest ways to get to those skills, which often means the least techy ways.

 

When my kids are using their own time to express themselves through stop motion movies or Scratch programming games, I think that's great.  However, I don't think it's any more or less great than when they spend their free time on dance or piano practice or on old fashioned pen and paper art or on creating board games.  These free time activities all have various merits.

[lewelma]

I agree. Sounds like we do things in a very similar way.

 

However, there must be a certain amount of exposure that helps kids build the confidence required to just keep learning as the new technologies come out. The teen that I tutored has a computer in his room that he uses all the time, but mostly for video games and surfing.  And when he needed to figure out something more complex, he could not do it.  So the idea of 'give them the opportunity' and kids will naturally learn it, doesn't always work.

[lewelma]

 I'm old and blind. 

 

:D  me too.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Every single app, all the software, every social sharing website -- it's all designed to be 100% intuitive for logical people.

 

My boys taught themselves Excel, Word, PowerPoint, website building, Blender, Gimp, blogging with all the bells at whistles, YouTube, SoundCloud, DeviantArt, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Cubase....if it wasn't on the website there was a library book about it. Every time.

 

It really, really, really is true that if your child is classically trained in literacy and logic he will be able to figure out the manual. It won't matter whether it's a tome for an internet application or instructions for repairing a small engine IRL. He'll be able to do it. I wouldn't claim this if I hadn't seen my two older boys just...do stuff.

They've also needed to use computers and technology, especially communications and STEM-related apps and sites, for Civil Air Patrol. They've had online classes that require the use of distance learning technology.

So that's why I'm not concerned about future changes in technology for my classically trained sons, but I still say that the vast majority of entry-level computer skills are taught through entirely intuitive apps and software. I proved it to myself in 2012:

I taught a distance-learning student of mine to use a blog extensively for her school. I started by mailing her a large box of books, with almost everything she'd need for the year. We had a meeting over Skype for two hours every afternoon but otherwise all her assignments were posted on the blog or communicated through email. In order for her to be able to turn in all of her work on the blog for me to check at my leisure, so that valuable Skype minutes weren't wasted on items that could be shared, I taught her to use....

Wordpress and all its basic functions
Microsoft Student Word, including added apps, charts, graphs, and various functions
Google docs and Google drive (including shared editing and real-time interaction on docs, for her composition lessons)
Gmail and all its extras such as chat, attaching docs, etc
YouTube so I could watch her performing her science experiments and presentations
PowerPoint
Paint
Adobe PhotoShop
Tablet and pen
iPad

and she learned it all the first time. She was a very bright and very motivated student but she entirely lacked classical training in literacy and logic. She could read, and she had a lot of common sense when it came to sorting out instructions. All of these applications came with instructions, so she could do it.
 

[Arcadia]

Maybe just giving them the choice is the key. I just tell them to write a paper.

Mine would negotiate with me on whether they can make an ebook, movie or powerpoint instead of writing on paper.

I do insist on writing on paper for writing.

 

ICT is part of California state standards and my kids were public school kids. Even if we ignore the standards, my boys would have done their computer stuff as play time. Part of the reason is that they think technology is cool since I used to work in that field and my hubby is in tech R&D.

[regentrude]

I was initially very resistant to e-books.  I'm not entirely sure why.  I guess I like the smell of books or something.  My dad bought me one as a gift.  I love it! 

 

Thinking back to whether or not I would have enjoyed a textbook in that format I think I would not have minded because I was never one to highlight and write in my books.  I would take notes and write down pages that I wanted to go back to.  With an e-book I can definitely see that as being somewhat of a pain though because there aren't really page numbers.  There is highlighting and note taking, but I find that rather cumbersome. 

 

Except for literature and a few computer related books we still do mostly use physical books for school.  If I buy a pdf version I print it out.  I really don't enjoy reading books on the computer. 

 

I don't like them either. I can not read as well on a  screen as on paper, which I notice when I try to proof read something.

I would hate electronic textbooks because I am a very visual person who sees the entire two page spread before her inner eye and remembers that equation such-and-such was in a yellow colored box halfway down the left page. With electronic texts, you have to zoom in because screens are not as big, and you lose that context.

 

I have recently acquired a very nice tablet for work, and I am using it for notes pertaining to my course. I have used a tablet before and never liked it, but now I think it had to do with the quality of the digital pen. The one i have now is very sensitive, feels like a pen, and can write finely like a pencil - it does not have the feeling as if you're trying to write with a wide tipped marker. So, maybe technological improvements will cause wider adoption.

[Kuovonne]

My point it that there is not time for everything. There just is not. And I agree that I would rather teach writing than blogging because writing is the core skill and they can pick up blogging any time they want. But on the other hand, I naturally tend towards these base skills at the expense of technological skills. I just view them as more foundational, so they always get prioritized. This has ramifications to my kids and their ability/interest in ICT. So for *me* I do need to think through the extent of technology exposure that I want to provide, or I will naturally provide very little.

I choose to use technology when it helps me do something better, faster, cheaper.

I have my kids use technology as part of schoolwork for the same reasons.

- typing compositions that will be revised or edited

- making and using flashcards

- electronic dictionary

- looking up information online

 

On the other hand, I avoid technology for school work when it would bypass thinking:

- calculators in math

- drawing graphs (at least for now)

- analog clocks vs. digital clocks

 

I also avoid technology for school work when using it would actually take longer.

- making a slide show or movie to demonstrate understanding vs. writing or drawing

- drawing a picture on the tablet vs. drawing it on paper

- quick notes

 

As for electronic entertainment ...

My kids use electronic entertainment far too much for my taste, and so do I.

If my kids are doing to do something mindless, I'd far rather they do something in the real world.

On the other hand, electronic entertainment doesn't clutter the house. Sigh.

[kiwik]

As a lot of you know my kids attend school. Ds7 is in year 3 and ds5 in year 1. So far I have seen nothing that they couldn't learn in a few hours at intermediate. I honestly think most of the time technology is just used to make things "fun" and as busywork. The one exception I can see is some kids can express themselves better verbally and visually so a movie may be a better way for them to present information as a movie. They do need extra help to learn to write as well but at least they have an outlet in the mean time.

 

8 mini ipads in a year 1 class though - think how many books you could buy.

[lewelma]

So then is the consensus that if kids have access to a computer and observe family/friends using one, that they will naturally develop competency in IT.  No encouragement or assignments required.  That would definitely simplify my planning!

 

Perhaps the only thing that needs to be modelled with intent is computer hygiene like virus checks, backups, defrag, etc.

 

 

[Heathermomster]

My DS has dysgraphia so uses computers and technology out of necessity.  Technology is a tool that he uses to express himself because the dysgraphia confounds every aspect of his learning  while writing.  He started carrying a NEO Alphasmart if 4th grade and started typing full time by 6th grade.  He also uses audio books through Learningally and Bookshare plus reads books online while listening to Google's iSpeak app.  DS also uses Inspiration mindmapping software on the IPad and PC. 

 

Technology and programs are not difficult to learn.  DS has taken computers apart with me since he was very young and recently helped me load Ubuntu on his Netbook.  In the past, he has used Excel and Powerpoint.  He taught himself how to draw using 3-D images in Sketchup for fun and has explored Solid Works with a mechanical engineering friend of ours.  DS keeps a blog about Air Soft for pleasure and he's starting a C# class through Homeschool Programming.  

 

My son's verbal comprehension is extremely high, like within the top 1%.  He is able to type and understand a lecture.   I never imagined that he would use so much technology at such a young age, but it has been essential for him to progress with his learning.  

 

My younger child may have to type as well because she is already exhibiting motor planning issues.  If handwriting becomes an issue, she'll type just like her brother.

 

ETA:  I can see where audio books affect my son's close reading.   He can understand an unfamiliar word from context but isn't prone to immediately recognize a uniquely turned phrase like one might do while just reading.  He is 9th grader so we are working on that.  I prefer he read and listen to an audio book at the same time.

 

ETA2:  He writes his math and will jot down quick ideas for writing by hand.  He still types his paragraphs, we print for review/edits with a pencil, and he re-types.  

 

ETA3:  He used the computer for math drills and timeline software.  

 

 

[Heathermomster]

So then is the consensus that if kids have access to a computer and observe family/friends using one, that they will naturally develop competency in IT.  No encouragement or assignments required.  That would definitely simplify my planning!

 

Perhaps the only thing that needs to be modelled with intent is computer hygiene like virus checks, backups, defrag, etc.

Yes...

 

You should also discuss copyrights and intellectual property.

[Arcadia]

Perhaps the only thing that needs to be modelled with intent is computer hygiene like virus checks, backups, defrag, etc.

Also cyber etiquette and privacy in an internet world (over sharing, facebook, instagram).

[Kuovonne]

So then is the consensus that if kids have access to a computer and observe family/friends using one, that they will naturally develop competency in IT. No encouragement or assignments required. That would definitely simplify my planning!

While I wouldn't teach my kids to use a computer program simply for the sake of learning how to use it, I do need to factor in the learning curve when using technology that is new to them.

 

For example, I am going to have my DD start to put some of her library books for school on hold herself. She hasn't expressed an interest before, so she hasn't learned yet. I know that I will need to walk her through the process the first few times.

[lewelma]

Looking over this thread, I feel a bit like only the people with children who have successfully navigated the IT world have responded.  Such achievements your kids have!  I would like to hear from some less technology savvy families.  Perhaps I need to change the title of the thread to draw them in.

[Penguin]

Looking over this thread, I feel a bit like only the people with children who have successfully navigated the IT world have responded. Such achievements your kids have! I would like to hear from some less technology savvy families. Perhaps I need to change the title of the thread to draw them in.

Well, we are another technology savvy family, but I would like to chime in anyway.

 

DS is 13, and his brothers are 20 & 22. They talk tech together on many levels, and learn how to do all kinds of cool stuff from each other. They are all creators in some way (music, movies, programming).

 

And while we are fortunate to be able to all be together from time to time, my three kids live in three different countries. If there is a way to communicate electronically, it is likely that 2 or 3 of the 5 of us have it/use it, lol. We all have our preferences though.

 

For school, DS13 types all of his papers and this year we will use Dropbox to share the files. We use one note for assignments, and are excited to that to a higher level this year. He will have an outsourced online class (Latin). He programs a bit. He does not want online textbooks and is not that fond of the kindle. We use anki decks.

 

But every subject has a well-used physical notebook. We use composition notebooks mostly. We believe in "motor memory" and just plain enjoy pen (or pencil) and paper. We started the notebooks in 6th grade and just added to them in 7th. For some subjects, they will continue for 8th. But in the subjects where I feel that he is truly doing high school level work, I think we will start new notebooks this year (8th), with the intent of creating personal reference books during the high school years.

[Rosie_0801]

I hope some more non-techy people will chime in. Dd is only allowed to use computers at her father's house. I do not allow her to use it here and really don't know how I'm going to balance the need to keep her off them with the necessity for her to become adequately skilled. She's only 7, so I guess I'll know when the right time comes. *sigh*

 

:lurk5:

[Penguin]

Rosie, I really like regentrudes initial reply. My kids have always learned their IT skills when they needed it or wanted it.

[Sherry in OH]

My dh is employed in IT.  He is very interested in the educational possibilities new technologies can offer.  He frequently downloads and tries educational applications and games.  Many of them are bells and whistles with little content.  He pushes hard for including more technology in our lessons.

 

Our children are young. Thus far technology use in lessons has been limited to educational games, video, e-books, and online encyclopedias.  I do not care for e-books, but more and more frequently I am finding that our public library offers only that format.  My children know how to perform basic searches in the library’s catalog and place holds on books of interest.  They also know how to play a vast number of games.  I must admit that they know far more about states and presidents than I did at their age. 

 

I did not learn to type until high school and did not use a computer for academic work until college.  More and more I am feeling the need for my children to learn keyboarding skills in the elementary grades.  I am watching the posts on the new HWOT program with interest.  My oldest is developing an interest in robotics and I want him to know how to type before he starts learning programming language. 

 

I may change my mind, but I think we will follow the same route we did for other skills.  First allocate time for learning the skill (or specific program).  Once the skill has been acquired, apply it.  So, learn to type, learn the basics of navigating a word processing program, and then use the word processing program as a tool when writing a paper.  The same with slide shows, spreadsheets, and movies or whatever replaces them by the time my children reach an age to use them.  Dh will be in charge of teaching programming language.  The languages I learned are blips in the history of computing. 

[stripe]

Another thing is, my son loves to read manuals. I read manuals, too, but not like he does. He reads the whole thing and learns about interesting features and reports back about what the device can do. I think it's a good habit.

[MotherGoose]

First I would like to address a comment from the post you quoted:

 

Actually, 99% of my college students do take their notes with a real pencil/pen on real paper. The students taking notes on a tablet are in a tiny minority. So yes, there are still plenty of paper notebooks and printouts. Same for homework - less than 1% of the students use electronic devices to work out their physics problems. Even in courses where the homework answer is submitted electronically to an automated grading system (with all the issues this brings, most importantly the poor quality on the feedback for the entire context rich problem), they have to work it out first... on paper.

The essays my DD had to submit for her English courses were submitted to Blackboard - but for thorough editing, everybody printed out the papers repeatedly before submitting a final electronic copy.

 

 

But, to get back to the OP's question:

I see technology as a tool, not a separate content area. Most software is actually quite easily mastered. The student should have no fear of the computer, should be encouraged to explore software by trying out stuff, and should have a basic knowledge of commonly used software - be familiar with a word processing program, with a graphing program, a spreadsheet program, a drawing program.

There is really nothing *to* it. It is fun to make a powerpoint presentation, and any student who wants to can easily learn how to use the program by doing so. There is nothing abut computer use that requires students to be specifically trained from kindergarten age on. I found that kids are quite savvy at picking up skills when they are given free access to a computer and the opportunity to mess around with programs. Mine taught themselves all kinds of things I have no clue about.

 

We have incorporated technology use into our regular education and the kids learn what they need to use when they need to use it. They learned to use Word by typing their history and English essays; Excel for physics lab; LaTeX in chemistry lab; Powerpoint for history presentations, Fortran when they want to do program a simulation; html when they want to make a website.

 

That's the same way *I* learned all the computer skills I ever needed. I learned programming when I had to program numerical simulations for my dissertation project. I will have to teach an online course this fall, and so I am currently learning to use a software package for video recording and editing to create my lecture videos. I learn it by trying out stuff and playing around with the program. I learn it now because I need it now; I could not have effectively mastered the software three years ago when I would have had no need to spend weeks working with it on a specific project - even the best class at that point would have been completely useless My DH taught himself parallel computing and how to build a computer cluster from scratch when he needed to do it.

So, I really think giving the students access to the technology and a task is all that is needed to master software.

 

But we have made a specific effort to teach them the hardware side; both kids have built computers from parts.

 

 

I would consider these vital skills for any student to have. They need to be able to install software (not a big deal, again, but intimidating when they have never done it), run anti virus software, etc. Doing regular backups is the kind of computer hygiene habit akin to brushing one's teeth or changing oil on the car.

Mastering the software is only one side of the equation - they also need to maintain the machine on which they run it. So I would recommend that you involve the kids in installations, backups, virus scans to familiarize them with these procedures. I found that a more deliberate effort is needed to teach this side of things than the software which they will simply use (worst thing that can happen is that the program crashes) - messing with the system installations requires some adult oversight because there you can really mess up stuff.

 

Technology tools can enhance learning if used judiciously; but also, very often, its purpose is just convenience, not enhanced learning. There is nothing inherently more valuable about a video lecture or an online textbook than a live lecture or paper textbook other than convenience of access. Which is good, but not really a fundamental difference. There is nothing I need to teach a kid about using an online textbook or video lecture, the process of absorbing the information is still the same: they need to read, listen, take notes.

 

What is maybe one of the most important skills to acquire is to not succumb to the distractions offered by technology, and not to have a false sense of security from having, for example, electronic copies of lectures and lecture notes. I noticed that many students have a false sense of knowledge just because they have a paper handout; that's now worse because they have so much more information in electronic form. Well, you still don't know it just because you have a paper or the bytes. Having access to information is not the same as possessing knowledge - and this is maybe the most important lesson about technology use we need to teach the kids.

 

I am not worried about the rest. They'll teach themselves. We can not possibly anticipate what kind of technology they will have available ten years from now - so we can't possibly teach them to use all the stuff they will need as adults. New things will come out all the time. None of us grew up with laptops, tablets or smart phones - yet somehow we were able to figure them out, right? I don't think that learning to use punch cards in college did contribute anything towards my present day technology skills. So, maybe encouraging openness and experimentation is the best thing we can do - basically teach them how to learn. So, classical education principles apply here, too :-)

I absolutely agree! Most of us parents grew up without computer classes or anyway I don't think my classes on how to use a Tandy 1000 are very relevant now. I'm using an ipad now with no class--I just played with it till I figured it out.

[MotherGoose]

Another thing is, my son loves to read manuals. I read manuals, too, but not like he does. He reads the whole thing and learns about interesting features and reports back about what the device can do. I think it's a good habit.

That's an excellent habit but not something I can make myself do. I'll tinker first and then read if I get stuck.

[Cosmos]

So then is the consensus that if kids have access to a computer and observe family/friends using one, that they will naturally develop competency in IT.  No encouragement or assignments required.  That would definitely simplify my planning!

 

Perhaps the only thing that needs to be modelled with intent is computer hygiene like virus checks, backups, defrag, etc.

 

I haven't read all of the replies, but the above caught my eye. We have decided to be a bit more intentional than that. My ds has never really been drawn to technology the way others have described their kids. It's not for lack of exposure, but he just wasn't interested. At least when he was younger.

 

So I've had to make sure to include some technology lessons periodically. We started off with basic computer skills, typing and internet safety. Some basic programming (Scratch and java) but stopped when he lost interest. He did video editing courses at our local tv station. I was surprised when he picked that from a list of camps! He enjoyed it and used the skills for one project with a friend but hasn't pursued it on his own since then. Last year he did a computer science course on Coursera, and that actually did spark his interest, but that was a little more abstract, not so much about tech skills. More discussions about the internet and social media have arisen as he's gotten an email account, joined facebook, and other forums through the years.

 

We have access to Lynda tutorials, which cover a wide range of tech skills. I agree that you can learn a lot just intuitively, but when he was watching an Excel tutorial, the teacher mentioned several features and shortcuts that I had no idea about even after using Excel for decades. So I find the tutorials useful, especially for a tool as complex as Excel.

 

He hasn't done PowerPoint at all, so I think I'll make a point to offer that as an assignment choice sometimes this year. Also a good point about computer maintenance. We should involve him in that. Also, he has semi-volunteered to take over maintaining our family digital pictures and make some albums, so I may encourage that project as well.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I should have mentioned that our dc do not use computers until age 13. When they were younger the distraction was too much; they couldn't balance very well so we just waited and kept them climbing trees, riding bikes, and playing Lego for awhile. Obviously, some boys can look at screens for part of their day and still be able to amuse themselves in other ways when they're bored, but my boys can't. We severely limit screen time until they are older.

[Mandy in TN]

I don't even have PowerPoint on the computer and don't know what Ubuntu is. My children never made a movie or poster on the computer or anything like that to demonstrate mastery of material. I did go to the little scratch thing a few years ago with my youngest, but I had no idea what to do with it. He couldn't figure out what was supposed to be fun about it or how to create anything, so that was the end of that.

 

My oldest had more aversion to the computer than any of my children. In high school, I sent him to a tutor for math and made sure he was taught how to use a graphing calculator so that wouldn't be a stumbling block in his college math classes. I had him dual enroll in an intro to computer applications course. I am glad I did these things. Not knowing how to use a graphing calculator would indeed have been a stumbling block going into college math where they provided no instruction and just expected that he knew how to use one. I do feel like the intro to comp applications course helped to expose him to things that he never would have explored in his own.

 

My middle ds did make movies and stop animation and played with some programming. He did these things in his free time. He is majoring in computer science now.

 

Anyway, no, I do not believe that kids naturally pick up or enjoy or would choose to do things on the computer if given the option. My oldest is living proof. He would have been that 16yo who didn't know what to do. I do think that some kids have to be told to do their papers on the computer. If they aren't doing so by middle school/ jr high, I would have them start doing so at least some of the time. If you have a child in high school who shows no interest in figuring out how to use technology, I would suggest being proactive in making sure that they learn it. Yes, I do think not being familiar with these things will be a stumbling block in college no matter how strong their math and writing skills.

 

Yes, I do think the people who responded in this thread have a lot of technology in their homes that they allow their children to access freely and have at least one parent who knows how to use it. No, at this time, I do not think that this is representative of the majority of US families. Think of the number of threads here that discuss not allowing any screen time, moderating screen time or use, not allowing Internet access, having to teach keyboarding and/ or word processing skills to students in middle school/ jr high. Obviously, 10 and 12 yo students who are only allowed to touch the computer for 30minutes a day or only 30 minutes on Sat and Sun are not doing programming, animation, or stop-motion activities. These things take more time than a lot of students are allowed to even spend on the computer. If the threads here and in my local homeschool groups are to be believed, there are many homeschooled students who are not exposed to and who I am not convinced will learn to use technology without some instruction or perhaps some prodding or at least some encouragement.

HTH-

Mandy

[regentrude]

 I do think that some kids have to be told to do their papers on the computer. If they aren't doing so by middle school/ jr high, I would have them start doing so at least some of the time.

 

I am curious about this. Would it not be obvious to the kid that editing a paper multiple times by re-writing all those pages by hand every.single.time  is much more cumbersome than using word processing software? I mean, I can't imagine a kid who would not complain and beg to be allowed to use the computer for this.. unless they are not required to re-write and edit their assignments.

Or are you thinking of families where the kids do not see their parents use word processing software for their own writing?

[stripe]

Yes, I do think the people who responded in this thread have a lot of technology in their homes that they allow their children to access freely and have at least one parent who knows how to use it. No, at this time, I do not think that this is representative of the majority of US families.

I disagree. I know lots of people with iPads, smart phones, and cable TV, and I don't mean people in the upper levels of income and "prestige." I mean regular people.

 

According to http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/exploring-digital-nation-computer-and-internet-use-home, "Over three-fourths (77 percent) of households had a computer."

 

One study said almost 40% of children use iPads before age 2

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/zero-to-eight-2013.pdf

 

From http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=home-computer-access :

 

According to a 2009 survey of eight- to eighteen-year-olds, 36 percent have a computer in their bedroom, and nearly as many (33 percent) have Internet access there. Youth spend nearly an hour-and-a-half (outside of schoolwork) with a computer each day

....

There is a strong gradient by parents’ education attainment in children’s home access to computers, and particularly in their Internet access. In 2011, 58 percent of children in homes where the householder did not have a high school education had access to a home computer, a significantly lower proportion than found in homes where the householder had a high school diploma (77 percent), had some college education (88 percent), or had a college degree or higher (97 percent). Internet access was reported by significantly fewer children with the least-educated householders (36 and 51 percent, respectively) than by those with parents in the two higher education groups (62 and 69 percent, respectively).

[Mandy in TN]

I am curious about this. Would it not be obvious to the kid that editing a paper multiple times by re-writing all those pages by hand every.single.time is much more cumbersome than using word processing software? I mean, I can't imagine a kid who would not complain and beg to be allowed to use the computer for this.. unless they are not required to re-write and edit their assignments.

Or are you thinking of families where the kids do not see their parents use word processing software for their own writing?

I am talking about children who were not allowed to use a computer at all or very little in elementary school. Then, in middle school/ jr high they are just learning to type. Typing takes so long that they would rather write their papers.

 

How many posts do you see here about children's screen time being strictly moderated and only a short period of time allowed daily or weekly? How many posts do you see inquiring about typing programs for children in grade 4 or later?

[Mandy in TN]

I disagree. I know lots of people with iPads, smart phones, and cable TV, and I don't mean people in the upper levels of income and "prestige." I mean regular people.

 

According to http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/exploring-digital-nation-computer-and-internet-use-home, "Over three-fourths (77 percent) of households had a computer."

 

One study said almost 40% of children use iPads before age 2

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/zero-to-eight-2013.pdf

 

From http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=home-computer-access :

 

According to a 2009 survey of eight- to eighteen-year-olds, 36 percent have a computer in their bedroom, and nearly as many (33 percent) have Internet access there. Youth spend nearly an hour-and-a-half (outside of schoolwork) with a computer each day

....

There is a strong gradient by parents’ education attainment in children’s home access to computers, and particularly in their Internet access. In 2011, 58 percent of children in homes where the householder did not have a high school education had access to a home computer, a significantly lower proportion than found in homes where the householder had a high school diploma (77 percent), had some college education (88 percent), or had a college degree or higher (97 percent). Internet access was reported by significantly fewer children with the least-educated householders (36 and 51 percent, respectively) than by those with parents in the two higher education groups (62 and 69 percent, respectively).

I am not saying that families do not have computers. I am saying that it seems that a lot of homeschoolers pride themselves in not allowing their children to have screen time.

 

I am also saying that, as in the case of my oldest child, some kids, who have laptops and pretty unrestricted use, just choose not to use them.

 

Sometimes direct instruction is necessary- especially in the two situations I mentioned.

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

I just don't want anyone to read this thread and think that their child will readily absorb technology. If they have been allowed very limited exposure or if they show no interest, expect to spend some time utilizing direct instruction.

[Mandy in TN]

If the threads here and in my local homeschool groups are to be believed, there are many homeschooled students who are not exposed to and who I am not convinced will learn to use technology without some instruction or perhaps some prodding or at least some encouragement.

 

I don't disagree.

 

I just find it interesting that we are told we can't learn stuff without taking a class. Back in the day there weren't many or any computer courses and people had to learn by tinkering and doing. Now we are told we need to take classes for some of these basics.

I didn't say that everyone needs to take a class. I said that I am not convinced that every student will absorb technology and that some students need direct instruction, some prodding, or at least some encouragement. I have two older children who were given computers and basically unlimited Internet access. One came to high school pretty tech savvy, but the other needed both prodding and instruction.

Just my BTDT experience.

Mandy

 

ETA- my older child still writes things out. He writes fan fiction and writes out everything by hand including character lists with descriptions before he types anything. He didn't grow up watching me write anything by hand, so I have always been baffled.

 

ETA- he is 23, so I don't suspect this will change.

[OK Family]

I don't think I'm tech savvy.... My kids have a bit of tech exposure. They can navigate the iPad real easy, however they don't search the Internet. They all have either used the computer for Reading Eggs, Spelling City and now my boys use it for Teaching Textbooks. My son has done a bit of typing up papers but not much. I hope to tackle that this fall. He also has done some computer programming with scratch. Don't know if all this is relevant to the question, but that's how we fit some techno in. I imagine as they get older we'll find other ways to incorporate tech into our day.

[ElizaG]

I do not assign media creation just so they can create media. If your son wants to make a movie to illustrate something or blog about something to transmit information, I would encourage that - but I would not artificially create assignments so he can use the tool. That would be like selecting a crafts project based on the criterion that it should include the use of scissors, hot glue, and pink paint - and not based on what you want to make.

 

The skill needed to blog is writing. I teach writing. If my child would like to use the tool "blogging" in the process of learning to write, I'd give him the opportunity to do so. But I don't create assignments to teach "blogging". That's not a separate skill. If he has learned to write, he will be able to blog just fine.

Although I agree with this to some extent, I think it's also legitimate to have specific lessons in newer forms of communications media.   I'd teach these the same way I'd teach any type of writing or speaking:  by sharing some excellent models, talking about the principles involved, and letting them play around.    Which forms to teach, if any, would be a personal judgment call.   Personally, I'd be inclined to include a small amount of movie-making (digital or otherwise) at some point, but skip blogging, Twitter, etc.  

 

I don't consider this to be "technology education," though, except insofar as learning to use a pen is also "technology education."   :001_smile:  It would be a part of the teaching of rhetoric.  In some ways, the wide accessibility of electronic media seems to be taking us back to more of the ancient balance between writing and oratory.    

[Arcadia]

How many posts do you see here about children's screen time being strictly moderated and only a short period of time allowed daily or weekly

I think it depends on how screen time is rationed. I moderated the time my boys spend on playing games like Luxor, Clash of the Clans, Plants vs Zombies. However I don't count the time they spend typing their science fair reports or learning a programming language as screen time.

[Korrale]

We are a so-so tech savvy family. My husband is. I was.... A lifetime ago it seems. I used to know quite a bit about computers. I studied IT in school. But tech changes faster than I can afford. So we are often a bit behind the curb. We don't even own any Microsoft office program due to cost. I use Open Office. And it is quite different to when I was using Microsoft Word back in the day.

If I am ever befuddled by something I intend to do I often just look for a YouTube tutorial. I guess I can do more than the average non computer person. But only because I can learn on the fly.

 

I have a 4 year old. I have not explicitly shown him how to use a computer. We don't really use one much. (I rely on iPad for everything) But I have a computer tower hooked up as our TV. I was shocked to see that my son was able to navigate the internet to pull up a show to watch on YouTube all by himself one day.

So, I have no intention to teach him computer usage. I think he will learn as needed. When he reaches high school grade I think I will have him take some computer classes for free at the library, if he needs them. They are always offering classes on word processing, excel, how to make a blog etc. But I doubt he will need them.

I would like him to learn how to code and in a few years I intend to introduce a few programs like that for kids.

[lewelma]

Thanks for all the responses, I am still working my way through them all.

 

I want to start by clarifying how techy our household is.  My dh implements multimillion dollar IT projects and just finished (as in 2 days ago!!) a PhD on Electronic record keeping.  We have 4 linux laptops connected with a server.  For my research in the early 90s, I got an NSF grant to buy time on a supercomputer to run my statistical programs.  I had to upload my FTP files from 500miles away back before the Web existed. We do tech here.

 

The problem is that my dh got into linux back in the 90s and changed all our computers over.  Back then it was a disaster to upgrade or download and I just started to let him do it all because it was his baby.  Then I had kids, and went into mommy mode and did not touch a computer for probably 5 years except for e-mail. So basically I left the technology world for close to a decade.  And it felt like everything had changed when I came back to it.  

 

I naturally do things on paper, and typically find that learning new computer tasks to be not difficult, but annoying.  I just don't find computers fun. What I noticed about a year ago was that my generally negative attitude was influencing how my kids viewed technology.  So I changed, and simply put on a positive, can-do attitude which made a world of difference to them. 

 

But what I do see in my kids is that there is not the kind of initiative concerning computers that others kids have.  My older is starting to be proactive, and downloaded geogebra and starting using it on his own, and played with scratch for a few years.  So I guess I am less concerned about him.  But my younger doesn't have much initiative in general, let alone in IT.  He will happily learn whatever I teach him, but he will not seek it out.  So this is why I think I need to be more intentional with teaching IT with him.  He has actually said that he wants to do what his father does. I was like :huh: . You want to be an IT project manager?  Um, you show no interest in computing.  But then when I show him stuff, he does.

 

A lot of these things kids teach themselves through tinkering. It's a bit like being in the garage with Dad's tool set, kwim ?

 

Can you just include Technology in your term and allocate 2hrs a week/fortnight to it ? There are some fantastic resources out there they could simply explore.

 

A lot of it is confidence.  I think setting aside time to play with technological tools creates a lot of problem solving opportunities.
 

I think that this is excellent advice.

 

But how do you get them tinkering with anything but video games?

 

I'm starting to think that a blog would really help him have the motivation to learn how to do all sorts of cool things.  Unfortunately, he has little interest in Scratch because his big brother can do all sorts of cool things, and he can't.  I need to find something that he can learn that the older ds does not know.  I must be careful that older does not outshine younger in all things - definitely a concern in my household.

 

 

[Arcadia]

But my younger doesn't have much initiative in general, let alone in IT. He will happily learn whatever I teach him, but he will not seek it out.

My 8 year old is naturally laid back. But there is a strong degree of learned dependency on his 9 year old brother. When my boys are in different classes or in different groups in the same class, my younger stops being passive and soars on his own merits.

My older wants to create a game app, my younger is into programming robots. Different aspects of programming but still a little bit of rivalry. Actually I do lot more budgeting and managing manpower/delegating than the tech work myself for IT project management.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

• We try to include Lily in anything special going on with the computers. (That included drilling a hole in the wall the other day.... :glare:  ;) ).
• She uses email to correspond with mentors, program/study leaders, and other contacts. They also use Facebook for some information exchange/scheduling.  
• She uses the computer to send in some research information.
• We keep digital calendars. We have both personal and a synched family calendar.
• She does some research on the computer for papers and to find books to order to read for papers.
• She has a smart phone she uses for smart purposes ;) .
• We use Google Drive for lots of various projects.
• When I have something techy that needs done, I sometimes send a work order to the tech team (Lily and DH). This frees my time a bit and gives them something to work on that fills a need. (Fun, too!)
• She has friends that host games on their servers, so she toys around a tiny, tiny, ever so tiny bit with that.
• She uses Quizlet for Spanish and other subjects, as needed
• She has used PowerPoint, etc. for projects.

 

We're not a non-tech household by any means, but we limit screen time. We just aren't watchers. I think screen time may mean different things to different people.

 

ETA: She is not the type of child to just tinker on the computer and make real progress. She needs to have a purpose.