"Bergdahl home-schooled"

[Violet Crown]

Glad to see the media putting the most important factors up front. If the "home-schooled" didn't tell you all you needed to know, the "ballet" surely would.

 

I wonder if, had the reporter and copy editor been homeschooled, they would have committed a solecism like "pouring over a book in the local library."

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/06/03/bergdahl-home-schooled-performed-in-ballet-before-joining-army/#respond

[eternalsummer]

I dunno, it's a unique thing about his life.  Most people aren't homeschooled, and most boys don't do ballet.

 

If he had, I dunno, gone to a fancy boarding school in Europe and become a chess grandmaster, they'd probably have put that in there too.

[Violet Crown]

I dunno, it's a unique thing about his life. Most people aren't homeschooled, and most boys don't do ballet.

 

If he had, I dunno, gone to a fancy boarding school in Europe and become a chess grandmaster, they'd probably have put that in there too.

Probably you're right; but in my ideal society, where I am Philosopher-King, how a person thrust into the limelight learned his adverbs wouldn't pass muster as the breathless headline of an article from a source purporting to purvey news. Look! Homeschooled! Ballet! Weirdo!

[Lanny]

I'd heard the mention  of the fact that he was Home Schooled, on the TV News, early last week. My belief is that there are many people who were Home Schooled, who are attending, or, have graduated, from the military academies. And, many others, who are serving, or have served, in the military. All of them, Honorably...

 

The fact that he was Home Schooled did not cause him to be a Deserter or a Traitor.

[Danestress]

Probably you're right; but in my ideal society, where I am Philosopher-King, how a person thrust into the limelight learned his adverbs wouldn't pass muster as the breathless headline of an article from a source purporting to purvey news. Look! Homeschooled! Ballet! Weirdo!

I didn't think that was the tone at all. I thought the article tried to give a review of who he was before his time in the Army and to show him as a real person with a real past. I didn't think homeschool or ballet were presented as weird any more then biking, sailing, or working in a coffee shop were.

[Butter]

The media always talks about things that make someone different or an individual.  I didn't think the article was saying he deserted and/or was captured due to being homeschooled any more than him working in the coffee shop did.  This was simply an article that showed he was a human person behind the controversy.

[Mary in VA]

My 19 yo dd, home from college, homeschooled, ballet dancer (dance major) was watching the news with me last week when they started talking about Bergdahl's background, i.e. homeschooled, ballet dancer, parents "Calvinists." She said, "Oh great, usually they just point out the person is a Christian who homeschools, now they have a ballet dancer too!" And of course they kept showing pictures of him "dancing." 

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think it's the public's place to speculate over what led to his being held by the Taliban. That's a job for a court martial.

[Katy]

I don't know. To the extent that homeschooling can contribute to naivete I think it's an important part of the story.  I know that no matter what we've taught him to the contrary one of mine has just enough innocence and hubris to think the world's problems aren't that complicated and if we would just sit down and talk there would be no war. I'm sure being more sheltered than average has contributed to that sense a little bit. 

 

I'll be surprised if there is a court martial.  Too much political turmoil.  I think pulling him out when they did was a political trick meant to boost certain people in the primaries and it backfired.

[Crimson Wife]

The claim coming out today that he was supposedly tortured by the Taliban strikes me as possibly being a cover for not doing a court martial. The cynic in me suspects that he'll be declared too psychologically traumatized to face a court martial just to make the whole thing go away. He should face a court martial to account for why he wasn't where he was supposed to be, but I doubt he will.

[poppy]

I have heard so much about him being a traitor, he got six good men killed look for him, he's  a deserter at best, etc.

It's shameful.  I do not think him being a homeschooled ballet student would be in the headlines if he was a hero according to Fox News.

 

 

 

I think pulling him out when they did was a political trick meant to boost certain people in the primaries and it backfired.

 

If that's true, it was spectacularly stupid. But I don't think it's true at all.  The US has a sacred duty to get back its own.

If Bush did it, or Romney, we would not be hearing about a rescued POW being a "trick".

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

The thing is, I've known enough junior enlisted guys serving in my DH's old companies who were just not the sharpest tools in the shed, KWIM? There were plenty of jr. enlisteds who were smart and competant, but some of them I knew I could totally see getting themselves captured through sheer stupidity. So I'm not going to assume Bergdahl was deliberately acting as a traitor or a deserter. He could just have done something dumb.

[poppy]

The thing is, I've known enough junior enlisted guys serving in my DH's old companies who were just not the sharpest tools in the shed, KWIM? There were plenty of jr. enlisteds who were smart and competant, but some of them I knew I could totally see getting themselves captured through sheer stupidity. So I'm not going to assume Bergdahl was deliberately acting as a traitor or a deserter. He could just have done something dumb.

 

Even if he was AWOL, does he deserve the welcome he's getting?

From what I understand, you are not a deserter until you are 30+ days AWOL.

[flyingiguana]

At least the homeschooling didn't make the headline here in an article about the Moncton shooter, although it's still in the article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/justin-bourque-latest-revelations-about-man-charged-in-moncton-shooting-1.2665900

 

The articles on the Isla Vista shooter did list a lot of his former schools (including that he was homeschooled for a brief time, although probably only because he was between schools).  So the mention of homeschooling doesn't seem to be something the media is singling out -- they're just listing former schools and contacts.

 

[Guest]

The SPU shooter was homeschooled, too.  But I had to dig to find that out.  The media didn't push it.  

 

I dug to find it out because the last name and location of the family home made a few bells ring in my head; I was pretty sure I recognized the name, perhaps from a sibling in co-op.  

 

Sad.  

 

But I posted this only to say that at least here, at least initially, there isn't a media-focus on the fact. 

 

[Lanny]

Really? You know that '"all of them, Honorably"?

How do you know this? What info do you have on ALL homeschooled service members. How do you know, as well, that he is a Traitor? I don't think the public knows the full story yet, just the various ones the media is feeding us.

 

Probably it would have made the news, if someone who had been Home Schooled, did something truly awful and did not serve Honorably?

 

Deserter and (probably) Traitor seem to be fairly obvious. He left notes, sent emails, etc., that he wanted to renounce his American citizenship, join the Taliban, etc. None of the people who served with him say that he did not leave his post of his own free will. And, apparently, it wasn't the first time he had done that. 

 

If he does return to the USA, I believe they will need to protect him. at all times.

[Crimson Wife]

If those claims are true, then that would be pretty d*mning evidence at a court martial. But trying him in the media is wrong. It's a matter for the Army criminal justice to resolve and I hope that he is court martialed to account for his actions.

[poppy]

Probably it would have made the news, if someone who had been Home Schooled, did something truly awful and did not serve Honorably?

 

Deserter and (probably) Traitor seem to be fairly obvious. He left notes, sent emails, etc., that he wanted to renounce his American citizenship, join the Taliban, etc. None of the people who served with him say that he did not leave his post of his own free will. And, apparently, it wasn't the first time he had done that. 

 

If he does return to the USA, I believe they will need to protect him. at all times.

 

That does not jibe with anything I've read about the case at all.  I don't know what your sources are, but that's far more damning than anything I've heard reported from Wikileaks, etc.

[Farrar]

And even if we were going to try him in the media, surely we should go with the actual facts as known and not use wild speculation.

 

I agree that the military justice system should deal with him.  If they court martial him, I'm fine with that.  If they decide not to, I'm okay with that too.  I feel like they get to decide.

 

As there's a good likelihood that he'll eventually be a free man, I generally find it reprehensible when people issue vague threats that imply that Americans are bloodthirsty vigilantes who will kill someone over politics or perceived crimes that they have served their time for or been found not guilty of.  I'd like to believe that as a society we're better than that.

[Slartibartfast]

Probably it would have made the news, if someone who had been Home Schooled, did something truly awful and did not serve Honorably?

 

Deserter and (probably) Traitor seem to be fairly obvious. He left notes, sent emails, etc., that he wanted to renounce his American citizenship, join the Taliban, etc. None of the people who served with him say that he did not leave his post of his own free will. And, apparently, it wasn't the first time he had done that. 

 

If he does return to the USA, I believe they will need to protect him. at all times.

 

Source?

 

I have not read anything remotely similar to that. 

[Laurie4b]

Probably it would have made the news, if someone who had been Home Schooled, did something truly awful and did not serve Honorably?

 

Deserter and (probably) Traitor seem to be fairly obvious. He left notes, sent emails, etc., that he wanted to renounce his American citizenship, join the Taliban, etc. None of the people who served with him say that he did not leave his post of his own free will. And, apparently, it wasn't the first time he had done that. 

 

If he does return to the USA, I believe they will need to protect him. at all times.

 

 

Source?

 

I have not read anything remotely similar to that. 

 

Here's one source that mentions (doesn't corroborate or refute) the allegations:  http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/  I've seen them in various places when reading about it.

 

The publicity must be very hard on his family. I feel sorry for them. No matter what a son had or hadn't done, I'd be glad to get him home.

 

He's probably shielded from most of it in Europe.

[Slartibartfast]

Here's one source that mentions (doesn't corroborate or refute) the allegations:  http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/  I've seen them in various places when reading about it.

 

The publicity must be very hard on his family. I feel sorry for them. No matter what a son had or hadn't done, I'd be glad to get him home.

 

He's probably shielded from most of it in Europe.

 

None of that says he wanted to join the Taliban or renounce his citizenship, it essentially says he wanted to go sightseeing?

[Lanny]

That does not jibe with anything I've read about the case at all.  I don't know what your sources are, but that's far more damning than anything I've heard reported from Wikileaks, etc.

 

I don't know anything about WikiLeaks, but the Bi partisan (Democrats and Republicans) members of the U.S. Senate who were in a Classified briefing, put on by the White House last week  are furious. Probably everyone who  was in that meeting is furious.  Starting with a Democrat, Sen. Diane Feinstein of California. She is the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee.   

 

The Pentagon and the Administration have had files on Bergdahl for years and there doesn't seem to be anyone disputing the fact that he abandoned his comrades voluntarily.

 

This is a tragedy for the USA and the free world, because 5 very high ranking terrorists were released and  now there is more danger for the free world.

 

When I was young, there was a "draft" in the USA and I didn't want to be drafted, so I joined. However, today, everyone who is serving in the U.S. Military is a volunteer. He joined, voluntarily, without any pressure of being drafted... He could have joined the Peace Corps or done something else.

[Katy]

That does not jibe with anything I've read about the case at all.  I don't know what your sources are, but that's far more damning than anything I've heard reported from Wikileaks, etc.

 

Uhh, I don't watch much news but even I saw stuff like that.  I think even the Daily Show did a bit on it last week.

I don't know anything about WikiLeaks, but the Bi partisan (Democrats and Republicans) members of the U.S. Senate who were in a Classified briefing, put on by the White House last week  are furious. Probably everyone who  was in that meeting is furious.  Starting with a Democrat, Sen. Diane Feinstein of California. She is the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee.   

 

The Pentagon and the Administration have had files on Bergdahl for years and there doesn't seem to be anyone disputing the fact that he abandoned his comrades voluntarily.

 

This is a tragedy for the USA and the free world, because 5 very high ranking terrorists were released and  now there is more danger for the free world.

 

When I was young, there was a "draft" in the USA and I didn't want to be drafted, so I joined. However, today, everyone who is serving in the U.S. Military is a volunteer. He joined, voluntarily, without any pressure of being drafted... He could have joined the Peace Corps or done something else.

 

So.... you don't have any evidence to claim that he wanted to join the Taliban.

 

The Congress has nothing to complain about, they are just spouting off to seek political gains.  This deal, with the same 5 taliban prisoners has been on the table for two years (source), with Congressional awareness.

 

As others have said, the proper place to litigate this in in a court martial.

[Farrar]

But the idea that he may have been going AWOL and that this turned into a political disaster is a far cry from supposed emails that he wanted to join the Taliban.  I've seen tons of speculation about why he may have been leaving.  In fact, it seems pretty well established that he left without orders and was not where he was supposed to be.  But we don't know why.  Was it out of fear?  Was it out of sympathy for that school or for Afghani civilians in general?  Was it to make some sort of misguided political statement about the war?  Was it to desert or even to betray his country?  We don't know.  That's speculation.  And, in general, most media are not giving any real evidence that he was intending to betray his country beyond possibly deserting.

[poppy]

But the idea that he may have been going AWOL and that this turned into a political disaster is a far cry from supposed emails that he wanted to join the Taliban.  I've seen tons of speculation about why he may have been leaving.  In fact, it seems pretty well established that he left without orders and was not where he was supposed to be.  But we don't know why.  Was it out of fear?  Was it out of sympathy for that school or for Afghani civilians in general?  Was it to make some sort of misguided political statement about the war?  Was it to desert or even to betray his country?  We don't know.  That's speculation.  And, in general, most media are not giving any real evidence that he was intending to betray his country beyond possibly deserting.

 

PTSD / suicidal seems to be more likely than some of the wackadoodle theories out there. I've also heard the one that he is a CIA operative under very deep cover....

 

[Farrar]

Most of what I've read points to him being PTSD / suicidal.  I've heard he's  a traitor, and  I've heard he was a secret CIA operative too....... but not from any remotely reasonable source.

 

Yes, when I said "fear" that's what I was thinking of, but that uncaringly minimizes the terrible reality of that, so I really shouldn't have put it that way.

 

I heard a thing where people started to speculate about how he had been trying to help a nearby school...  but then they backtracked and said, but that's just because he was seen near there and people said he had been worried about the school, we don't know.  Because, we don't.

[Slartibartfast]

Uhh, I don't watch much news but even I saw stuff like that.  I think even the Daily Show did a bit on it last week.

 

I did not see anything on the daily show that stated that he was wanting to renounce his citizenship or that he wanted to join the Taliban.

 

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/1jh7tu/a-magnificent--complicated--clouded--controversial-story

[Laurie4b]

None of that says he wanted to join the Taliban or renounce his citizenship, it essentially says he wanted to go sightseeing?

 

I misunderstood your question. The pp you were responding to included the above but some more general stuff. You said you hadn't seen anything like that. The article I linked referred to the anti-American emails that he sent to his father. When you said you hadn't seen "anything like that", I assumed you weren't aware of the emails since for many people anti-American emails + desertion can look a lot like suspicion of being a traitor. Perhaps some of the more potent stuff is coming from people from his platoon. I did see one of them on the news. He was pretty intense.  I don't get the "sightseeing" conclusion, but people read things differently. 

 

I was trying to be helpful. Don't have a dog in the fight.

[poppy]

There is an email going around supposedly from someone in his troop that talked about him being a traitor and getting six men killed who we're looking for him- but it was a fabrication. They took names of men who died within a few months of his disappearance (before and after) and made up a story around it . What kind of craven person would dishonor those men , I couldn't even tell you.

[momacacia]

I'm just realizing that Bergdahl and Snowden need to buy an island together in an undisclosed location. ;)

[JuanitaL]

PTSD / suicidal seems to be more likely than some of the wackadoodle theories out there.

 

I agree. 1 in 5 military personnel have PTSD (conservative estimate), and a June 8, 2012 NYT article (I can't link for some reason) says that at that time there were more active-duty suicides than combat deaths. I just read in my Abnormal Psych book that suicide is the second leading cause of death for Marines (I do know Bergdahl isn't a Marine). I spent my moral outrage and hopes of court-martial over the last several years on the soldiers who refused to deploy; I don't have any left for this guy. He looks broken. I hope he gets the medical and psychiatric care he needs.

 

[unsinkable]

There is an email going around supposedly from someone in his troop that talked about him being a traitor and getting six men killed who we're looking for him- but it was a fabrication. They took names of men who died within a few months of his disappearance (before and after) and made up a story around it . What kind of craven person would dishonor those men , I couldn't even tell you.

The list of men I've seen have all died AFTER Bergdahl was gone from his unit. It seems like it is difficult to ascertain if the deaths were indeed related but some of the men in his unit believe that attacks increased after he left.

 

I'm not sure what email you're speaking of. I've learned of the six men through news outlets. The people who are speaking of the six men didn't appear to be trying to dishonor them at all. Quite the opposite.

[poppy]

The list of men I've seen have all died AFTER Bergdahl was gone from his unit. It seems like it is difficult to ascertain if the deaths were indeed related but some of the men in his unit believe that attacks increased after he left.

 

I'm not sure what email you're speaking of. I've learned of the six men through news outlets. The people who are speaking of the six men didn't appear to be trying to dishonor them at all. Quite the opposite.

 

I think we're talking about the same thing.  "News outlets" running an unsourced, anonymous email. This one: http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/now-that-hes-out-bergdahls-actions-demand-a-full-accounting.html/ 

[unsinkable]

I think we're talking about the same thing. "News outlets" running an unsourced, anonymous email. This one: http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/06/now-that-hes-out-bergdahls-actions-demand-a-full-accounting.html/

There have been many more articles with named sources addressing the issue of the six soldiers who died after Bergdahl left.

 

I never saw that email before.

[poppy]

There have been many more articles with named sources addressing the issue of the six soldiers who died after Bergdahl left.

 

I never saw that email before.

 

Sounds like quite a coordinated campaign.

 

Maybe I am too cynical. But what this brings to mind is Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.  Frame the narrative aggressively, attack, truth is secondary to the political objective.  It's just sad that a POW and these soldiers and their families are being used as fodder.

[unsinkable]

Sounds like quite a coordinated campaign.

 

Maybe I am too cynical. But what this brings to mind is Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Frame the narrative aggressively, attack, truth is secondary to the political objective. It's just sad that a POW and these soldiers and their families are being used as fodder.

So, an unnamed source was craven person dishonoring the dead, and named sources are a coordinated campaign.

 

I'm gong with...the soldiers that served with him want to tell their story.

[Laurie4b]

I didn't read an email but got the info from various news outlets.  I saw a guy from his unit on a news outlet. (I tend to follow links so I have no idea where I actually saw it.) It was probably Matt Vierkant because he is the main one quoted in news stories.

 

The mother of one of the guys killed is on this local news show: http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/06/04/soldiers-mother-on-bergdahl-release-my-son-died-looking-for-a-traitor/ She says members of the unit have told her that that is how her son really died.

 

I noticed that the newscaster in this case said, "It is widely reported that.... 6 men lost their lives" citing widespread media coverage not what they had confirmed themselves. The mother, though, is saying it was confirmed to her by her son's fellow soldiers, but not officially.  She wants Bergdahl shot if he's found guilty of desertion. It's sad to watch. War stinks. No way around it.

 

[Slartibartfast]

IMO if someone wants to tell their story then they ought not do that anonymously. Plenty of soldiers are giving their statements and attaching their name to it.

 

I find it troubling that politicians and the media are pushing so hard on this issue. As far as we know this soldier is still being treated for psychological issues. Why don't they let him heal up a bit before defaming him and destroying his family?

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just find the vehemence towards attacking someone who hasn't had a chance to speak pretty disturbing.

[mathnerd]

Sounds like quite a coordinated campaign.

 

Maybe I am too cynical. But what this brings to mind is Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.  Frame the narrative aggressively, attack, truth is secondary to the political objective.  It's just sad that a POW and these soldiers and their families are being used as fodder.

Here is a Time.com article on the 6 soldiers who died looking for Bergdahl -

http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/

 

What I read from various news sources is that all the soldiers in his unit had to sign an NDA and the reason for that and for swapping Guantanamo detainees for him is because he most probably was a CIA operative who was deep under cover. If this was the case, there is no way he will be court martialed and they are already saying that being a POW was punishment enough for deserting.

 

And we, the public have no way of knowing if Bergdahl was a CIA operative or not.

[poppy]

So, an unnamed source was craven person dishonoring the dead, and named sources are a coordinated campaign.

 

I'm gong with...the soldiers that served with him want to tell their story.

 

A traumatized and tortured POW was recovered less than two weeks ago.He was in captivity for 5 years. Why do you think right now is the exact urgent time to tell these stories?

 

Imagine if President Bush had Bin Laden killed and rescued the last POW in Afghanistan. Would the reaction be the same?

[unsinkable]

A traumatized and tortured POW was recovered less than two weeks ago.He was in captivity for 5 years. Why do you think right now is the exact urgent time to tell these stories?

 

Imagine if President Bush had Bin Laden killed and rescued the last POW in Afghanistan. Would the reaction be the same?

I'm not talking about politics. Board rules.

[poppy]

Here is a Time.com article on the 6 soldiers who died looking for Bergdahl -

http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/

 

What I read from various news sources is that all the soldiers in his unit had to sign an NDA and the reason for that and for swapping Guantanamo detainees for him is because he most probably was a CIA operative who was deep under cover. If this was the case, there is no way he will be court martialed and they are already saying that being a POW was punishment enough for deserting.

 

And we, the public have no way of knowing if Bergdahl was a CIA operative or not.

 

I would call that an editorial, not an 'article'.  Look at the snarkiness in the very first paragraph. And to say they all died 'looking for ' the POW - is not supported at all.

 

Look, I don't want to be in the position of defending Bergdahl  I don't pretend to know the whole story. I think even Obama is being measured in his response to him.  It's just, the story is so terribly awful and sad. Much of the press coverage, on the other hand, feels like pure politics to me.

[Crimson Wife]

A traumatized and tortured POW was recovered less than two weeks ago.He was in captivity for 5 years. Why do you think right now is the exact urgent time to tell these stories?

 

Imagine if President Bush had Bin Laden killed and rescued the last POW in Afghanistan. Would the reaction be the same?

 

There are allegations of torture but whether or not those claims are true remains to be determined. Speculation is running wild in the media and the blogosphere. What is accurate vs. exaggerated vs. purely imagined (I personally am quite skeptical of the "undercover CIA operative" theory but it's possible) none of us really know. That's why I hope that he does face court martial so that the case can be judged on the actual evidence.