Would it be to her detriment? (writing, dyslexia related)

[AimeeM]

DD12 is coming out of a bad private school situation this fall. She has made no real progress in writing or spelling - any language arts. She enjoys reading, and will do so with no fight, but writing is something she hates - even more now than before. She was only there a year.

Originally I had planned a heavy language arts sequence for this upcoming year, but I'm rethinking that. I'm considering going heavy on her interests (math, science - things she enjoyed before going to this school), and going more *fun* on the language arts - or "light".

 

I would like to use MCT Town (she's very much a visual learner), with Apples and Pears spelling (which she enjoys very much). I had originally planned IEW for writing, but she's already balking at the idea (and we haven't even started, lol), and heavy on the spiral grammar, etc. We are holding her back a year, regardless, so she'll be doing another year of grade 7.

 

Would it be okay to go light/fun on the language arts this next year, and then ramp it back up for grade 8? I very badly want to reignite some love of learning for her this year - and I would say this is my primary goal for the year - while still allowing for some progress.

[Heathermomster]

Is she typing yet?

[AimeeM]

Is she typing yet?

 

Somewhat. But she loathes anything computer related, school wise, so that would make her just as miserable as heavy language arts elsewhere :(

[Heathermomster]

ETA:  I just totally pulled apart my original posting..

 

No, I don't think you can mess her up if your DD pursues hands-on science and math plus reads books that she enjoys for lit.  If you don't do this already, engage her with Socratic type questioning through her lessons.  Maybe try mindmapping software for simple note taking and character analysis.  It was suggested to me that DS take 45 minutes daily and free write about any subject that he cares about, with no corrections of any kind.  Save the work and review at the end of the year.

 

[Pen]

I think your plan to focus on reigniting love of learning would be exellent.

 

But, I'm curious--do I recall wrongly, or was it not you raving about this school?

[AimeeM]

I think your plan to focus on reigniting love of learning would be exellent.

 

But, I'm curious--do I recall wrongly, or was it not you raving about this school?

 

I probably was. Due to very little communication home, we were under the impression that things were going very well for the first semester. Things came crashing down (in a very bad way) very, very quickly.

 

There were still certain things that I very much love about the school, but the bad outweighs the good on a huge level.

[SandyKC]

Have you checked out Brave Writer?  We used it to re-engage my guys with writing after we pulled them out of public school.  It's a different, laid back way of thinking of writing.  If you don't worry about spelling and structure and help your DD journal her thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc., it can be a great way to help your DD stay engaged with writing (preventing regression) without going heavy-duty into any form of composition. ;-)

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  Aimee.  I agree, i don't think you will ruin her.  Definitely igniting a love of learning again, and helping her heal after a rather difficult final half of this year by giving her time to process everything would probably be a really good idea.  But you might keep something like Brave Writer as Sandy mentioned (haven't used it but have heard great things about it) in the back of your head and consider pulling it out after Christmas?  What about Dragon Speak, Inspiration and/or Ginger software so she can get ideas out without bogging down in the mechanical part of writing, just for some easy, fun writing assignments about topics she has an interest while she detoxes?

[PeterPan]

I'm so sorry this year has turned so sour.  Sometimes even the years that seem really off turn out to have some good consequence in the long-run, so hopefully this will be the case.   :grouphug: 

 

My dd HATED writing through 7th grade.  Like passionately hated it, sweated blood, rained curses on SWB, you name it.  You get the point, and I'm only slightly exaggerating.  8th grade RADICAL change.  I don't know how much of it was developmental/timetable, and I tend to think a chunk of it was.  However it's also true that at the time we were doing Heather's metronome homework protocol.  Not only were we doing that, but we were kicking it up adding in digit spans.  That's when we got this HUGE change.  I can't promise it would happen for you, but considering the price (free!) it would certainly be worth a try.  That and some more time to grow *might* make a difference.

 

The other things that changed then?  Well in 7th we switched to Dvorak for the keyboard layout, which finally allowed her to type.  If she doesn't have any issues with motor control, how about Read, Write, Type?  Educational Reading Software Program Read Write & Type!  I'm crazy for it and my ds enjoys it.  I know that's a tremendous age gap, but on the other hand it means it won't be hard.  I paid my dd ridiculous sums to get her over the hump.  I found Dvorak because I was researching options to help dyslexics type btw.  Even though she doesn't have that label, it definitely helped her.  

 

Oh, the 2nd thing?  I got her an iPad.  I don't know what your dd has access to, but it seems striking to me that she *doesn't like* computers.  The $$$$$$$ (yes, that was a lot of $, like $35K a year worth!) dyslexia school in town gives all the kids macbook pros to use.  I think it's something about macs and creative, bright people.  You can hit the mic and use the dictation.  You can touch and move stuff.  You've got all the creative software and the aesthetics.  I don't know.  I'm just saying for my dd the iPad unlocked her.  She started sitting up late at night to type out fan fiction stories.  That was developmental, I'm sure.  She had never been into fan fiction before, kwim?  I just think I TOTALLY would not be freaky about LA at this point, even thought it feels like you ought to be.

 

I'd encourage you to make sure the foundation is there.  By foundation I don't mean WTM skills but basic stuff like can her hands write, does she have pain, can she begin to type or use software, does she need bifocals to make computer use more comfortable, that kind of thing.  If she can physically get it out, then you're just waiting for everything to gel.  

 

As far as getting it to gel, the cognitive work with the metronome, digit spans, etc. helps because you're working on working memory, ability to handle distractions, using your motor planning WHILE you use that working memory.  I highly, highly, highly recommend it.  In addition to that but for the same reasons, you could also spend the summer playing GAMES.  Seriously, I can think of NOTHING more valuable you could do this summer (besides audiobooks and getting vitamin D with sunshine) than PLAYING GAMES.  Choose them well.  Target working memory in the games, and get her to TALK and handle distractions while she's using working memory.  Ticket to Ride is AWESOME for this.  Play Ticket to Ride every single day with her for the summer and see what happens, kwim?  There are games that work on making word lists, completing phrases, etc.  You're not going to hurt her, but working on expressive language, word retrieval, working memory, ability to handle distractions (and imperfection) while you use the skills, this will all pay dividends!  Dix-It.  Have you seen that game?  Crazy cool.  I got it because it's just so stupid beautiful.  Word on the Street, Forbidden Island.  I know you don't think Forbidden Island will help her writing, but it could.  She's going to have to plan through several steps, remember what everyone has, and TALK about it.  Working memory, expressive language, awesomeness.  

 

My two cents, given what a rough year you've had, is that ANY form of consistent writing would do.  I'd encourage you to do *something* this summer.  It could be short, like the writing prompts in the Jump In tm.  I wouldn't even decide fall till you get there, kwim?  She might be ready for WWS1 by fall, and seriously the program kicks butt.  It's SO structured.  You can use it in conjunction with the Inspiration software to help her get her thoughts out and organized before writing.  As long as you use your head about it and don't get all anal or in a tizzy unwilling to skip things or axe things or modify things to your common sense and your particular dc, WWS1 could be really good.  I gave my dd EXTREME liberty and leeway in the assignments, and I DON'T regret that.  My dd was just barely starting to write anything without dying a thousand deaths, so I gave her a lot of wiggle room.  The assignments had to be done, but the tone could change, the setting, the purpose, ANYTHING, so long as it got written.  And I did sorta slaughterhouse pace (basically double pace, typically 2-3 essays or paragraphs a week).  IF you do the journal writing so she can get something/anything on paper and IF she's able to type comfortably, I wouldn't hesitate to require a lot of writing.  Hold it, we didn't start WWS1 till January of 8th gr, right?  Just want to make sure I'm not mischaracterizing things.  We started later in the year and did it double pace.  At that point in her life she was able to get SOMETHING on paper and it seemed to me like more quantity was the next step, kwim?

 

So we didn't increase quantity AND structure/complexity AND analysis/opinion AND length AND... all at once, kwim?  We only increased one parameter at a time.  Just to get something onto screen or paper with comfort is the first step.  Once you have that, then you take another step.  It's ok if it takes a while, and it's ok if you flex the genre and type of writing radically while you're working on comfort.  My dd enjoyed the Jump In prompts from the tm at that age, so I can recommend them.  They're organized by month and reasonable for the age.  You know, depending on what she's into, she might have something else that makes her happy.  She might like to writing continuation stories for Disney movies.  She might like to write obituaries for scientists.  She might like to compile a family cookbook!  That would be awesome.  ANYTHING she could connect her brain to will be fine.  I love the way Heather steps it up by suggesting the open-ended daily free writes.  Those could work too!  The prompts turned into free writes for my dd and would help if she really doesn't know what she wants to write about.

 

I just want to say again, all is NOT LOST with how things are going now and her age.  When my dd was that age, I was stressing the EXACT SAME WAY.  I put my dd in a writing co-op class that year (not IEW), and although the instructor was fine she had NO clue how to meet the needs of an undiagnosed SN dc.  Dd spent tons of time, was very frustrated, and kept getting these comments about being too creative, lol.  She's still creative, but now she's starting to understand structure with the use of Inspiration.  Now, thanks to WWS, she has an approach to structuring content that actually works with how her brain thinks (VSL).  Isn't it ironic that SWB, who is so linear (yes?), could write a program that could connect between those two worlds?   :lol:   If you let it and embrace it, it does.  It's not perfect, but I KNOW straight linear outline your way to a paper won't work with my kid.  Inspiration + WWS works for her.  It's a little dry to stomach, but we made it work and were glad for what we got.

 

So dd is 15 now and I'm not worried.  Hopefully you won't be worried when she's 15 either.  I'm just saying I was as worried as you, and it came together.  Still not easy or natural or whiz bang, and I'm not sure she can write for an AP exam with the time pressure, but at least she can engage with structure and get her thoughts into it and make it work.  You're ok to do something that really engages with her, focus on the basics of comfort in getting it out, ability to type, working memory paired with expressive language, that kind of thing, and let it come together.

[AimeeM]

Have you checked out Brave Writer?  We used it to re-engage my guys with writing after we pulled them out of public school.  It's a different, laid back way of thinking of writing.  If you don't worry about spelling and structure and help your DD journal her thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc., it can be a great way to help your DD stay engaged with writing (preventing regression) without going heavy-duty into any form of composition. ;-)

 

She is terrified of creative writing in particular. She needs formula and structure or she melts. I have tried Bravewriter, but we didn't get far.

[AimeeM]

I'm so sorry this year has turned so sour.  Sometimes even the years that seem really off turn out to have some good consequence in the long-run, so hopefully this will be the case.   :grouphug: 

 

My dd HATED writing through 7th grade.  Like passionately hated it, sweated blood, rained curses on SWB, you name it.  You get the point, and I'm only slightly exaggerating.  8th grade RADICAL change.  I don't know how much of it was developmental/timetable, and I tend to think a chunk of it was.  However it's also true that at the time we were doing Heather's metronome homework protocol.  Not only were we doing that, but we were kicking it up adding in digit spans.  That's when we got this HUGE change.  I can't promise it would happen for you, but considering the price (free!) it would certainly be worth a try.  That and some more time to grow *might* make a difference.

 

The other things that changed then?  Well in 7th we switched to Dvorak for the keyboard layout, which finally allowed her to type.  If she doesn't have any issues with motor control, how about Read, Write, Type?  Educational Reading Software Program Read Write & Type!  I'm crazy for it and my ds enjoys it.  I know that's a tremendous age gap, but on the other hand it means it won't be hard.  I paid my dd ridiculous sums to get her over the hump.  I found Dvorak because I was researching options to help dyslexics type btw.  Even though she doesn't have that label, it definitely helped her.  

 

Oh, the 2nd thing?  I got her an iPad.  I don't know what your dd has access to, but it seems striking to me that she *doesn't like* computers.  The $$$$$$$ (yes, that was a lot of $, like $35K a year worth!) dyslexia school in town gives all the kids macbook pros to use.  I think it's something about macs and creative, bright people.  You can hit the mic and use the dictation.  You can touch and move stuff.  You've got all the creative software and the aesthetics.  I don't know.  I'm just saying for my dd the iPad unlocked her.  She started sitting up late at night to type out fan fiction stories.  That was developmental, I'm sure.  She had never been into fan fiction before, kwim?  I just think I TOTALLY would not be freaky about LA at this point, even thought it feels like you ought to be. She LOVES technology - but not for anything school related. She has an ipod, an ipad, and access to the Macs in the house, but refuses to use them for school ("refusal" is a strong word, she will do it, because she isn't disobedient, but it will do nothing to help reignite her passions, as she hates any type of screens for academics. I have *no clue* why this is, to be frank. She's incredibly tech savvy and loves Apple products with an unrivaled passion, lol! She DOES write fan fiction - or, she used to. I'm not sure what happened, but the first semester at this school she was on fire - reading everything she got her hands on, writing up a stories, etc. In fact, she wrote an amazing history presentation, spinning off of the Harry Potter series, for school end of first semester. She just seems to have lost all "oomph" for it :( Her mechanics were always pretty bad, but the content was definitely there.

 

I'd encourage you to make sure the foundation is there.  By foundation I don't mean WTM skills but basic stuff like can her hands write, does she have pain, can she begin to type or use software, does she need bifocals to make computer use more comfortable, that kind of thing.  If she can physically get it out, then you're just waiting for everything to gel.  She can definitely get it out. She actually has beautiful cursive handwriting, it isn't painful for her to write - but it IS time consuming and extremely stressful for her if she knows it is being graded or even looked over for errors.

 

As far as getting it to gel, the cognitive work with the metronome, digit spans, etc. helps because you're working on working memory, ability to handle distractions, using your motor planning WHILE you use that working memory.  I highly, highly, highly recommend it.  In addition to that but for the same reasons, you could also spend the summer playing GAMES.  Seriously, I can think of NOTHING more valuable you could do this summer (besides audiobooks and getting vitamin D with sunshine) than PLAYING GAMES.  Choose them well.  Target working memory in the games, and get her to TALK and handle distractions while she's using working memory.  Ticket to Ride is AWESOME for this.  Play Ticket to Ride every single day with her for the summer and see what happens, kwim?  There are games that work on making word lists, completing phrases, etc.  You're not going to hurt her, but working on expressive language, word retrieval, working memory, ability to handle distractions (and imperfection) while you use the skills, this will all pay dividends!  Dix-It.  Have you seen that game?  Crazy cool.  I got it because it's just so stupid beautiful.  Word on the Street, Forbidden Island.  I know you don't think Forbidden Island will help her writing, but it could.  She's going to have to plan through several steps, remember what everyone has, and TALK about it.  Working memory, expressive language, awesomeness.  I haven't seen most of those games - I'll definitely head straight to Amazon, though, to look at them!

 

My two cents, given what a rough year you've had, is that ANY form of consistent writing would do.  I'd encourage you to do *something* this summer.  It could be short, like the writing prompts in the Jump In tm.  I wouldn't even decide fall till you get there, kwim?  She might be ready for WWS1 by fall, and seriously the program kicks butt.  It's SO structured.  You can use it in conjunction with the Inspiration software to help her get her thoughts out and organized before writing.  As long as you use your head about it and don't get all anal or in a tizzy unwilling to skip things or axe things or modify things to your common sense and your particular dc, WWS1 could be really good.  I gave my dd EXTREME liberty and leeway in the assignments, and I DON'T regret that.  My dd was just barely starting to write anything without dying a thousand deaths, so I gave her a lot of wiggle room.  The assignments had to be done, but the tone could change, the setting, the purpose, ANYTHING, so long as it got written.  And I did sorta slaughterhouse pace (basically double pace, typically 2-3 essays or paragraphs a week).  IF you do the journal writing so she can get something/anything on paper and IF she's able to type comfortably, I wouldn't hesitate to require a lot of writing.  Hold it, we didn't start WWS1 till January of 8th gr, right?  Just want to make sure I'm not mischaracterizing things.  We started later in the year and did it double pace.  At that point in her life she was able to get SOMETHING on paper and it seemed to me like more quantity was the next step, kwim? She was absolutely miserable with the WWE series. I do not think it was structured ENOUGH for her (and she hated narration with a passion) - is WWS different than the WWE series?

 

So we didn't increase quantity AND structure/complexity AND analysis/opinion AND length AND... all at once, kwim?  We only increased one parameter at a time.  Just to get something onto screen or paper with comfort is the first step.  Once you have that, then you take another step.  It's ok if it takes a while, and it's ok if you flex the genre and type of writing radically while you're working on comfort.  My dd enjoyed the Jump In prompts from the tm at that age, so I can recommend them.  They're organized by month and reasonable for the age.  You know, depending on what she's into, she might have something else that makes her happy.  She might like to writing continuation stories for Disney movies.  She might like to write obituaries for scientists.  She might like to compile a family cookbook!  That would be awesome.  ANYTHING she could connect her brain to will be fine.  I love the way Heather steps it up by suggesting the open-ended daily free writes.  Those could work too!  The prompts turned into free writes for my dd and would help if she really doesn't know what she wants to write about. Those are great ideas. She may like to continue working on her Harry Potter spin offs, if I can get her to a point where she understands it isn't going to be graded.

 

I just want to say again, all is NOT LOST with how things are going now and her age.  When my dd was that age, I was stressing the EXACT SAME WAY.  I put my dd in a writing co-op class that year (not IEW), and although the instructor was fine she had NO clue how to meet the needs of an undiagnosed SN dc.  Dd spent tons of time, was very frustrated, and kept getting these comments about being too creative, lol.  She's still creative, but now she's starting to understand structure with the use of Inspiration.  Now, thanks to WWS, she has an approach to structuring content that actually works with how her brain thinks (VSL).  Isn't it ironic that SWB, who is so linear (yes?), could write a program that could connect between those two worlds?   :lol:   If you let it and embrace it, it does.  It's not perfect, but I KNOW straight linear outline your way to a paper won't work with my kid.  Inspiration + WWS works for her.  It's a little dry to stomach, but we made it work and were glad for what we got. Thank you so much!

 

So dd is 15 now and I'm not worried.  Hopefully you won't be worried when she's 15 either.  I'm just saying I was as worried as you, and it came together.  Still not easy or natural or whiz bang, and I'm not sure she can write for an AP exam with the time pressure, but at least she can engage with structure and get her thoughts into it and make it work.  You're ok to do something that really engages with her, focus on the basics of comfort in getting it out, ability to type, working memory paired with expressive language, that kind of thing, and let it come together.

 

 

[AimeeM]

ETA:  I just totally pulled apart my original posting..

 

No, I don't think you can mess her up if your DD pursues hands-on science and math plus reads books that she enjoys for lit.  If you don't do this already, engage her with Socratic type questioning through her lessons.  Maybe try mindmapping software for simple note taking and character analysis.  It was suggested to me that DS take 45 minutes daily and free write about any subject that he cares about, with no corrections of any kind.  Save the work and review at the end of the year.

 

I think this (bolded) might just work for her. I could encourage her to continue on with her Harry Potter spin offs. She has amazing content to her writing, but it is incredibly stressful for her when she knows it's being graded on grammar, spelling, and structure.

[Heathermomster]

I think this (bolded) might just work for her. I could encourage her to continue on with her Harry Potter spin offs. She has amazing content to her writing, but it is incredibly stressful for her when she knows it's being graded on grammar, spelling, and structure.

For full disclosure, OhE suggested we do this...No surprise there..  :D

[PeterPan]

For full disclosure, OhE suggested we do this...No surprise there..  :D

Aw shucks, I loved being incognito.  :D

 

Aimee, I think the contests my dd was entering helped spur her with the fan fiction.  Maybe your dd would have an outlet like that?  

 

And yes, it's ok to do writing without grading, correcting, etc.  If she has an audience, maybe that will shift the dynamic and cause her to come to you?  Do you do any separate editing?  Maybe find an editing book and just go through a small amount (3 sentences, 5 minutes) a day...  I confess I haven't found anything I majorly love for that, ugh.  We need to finish AG, and the 3rd season is all punctuation.  That's how we're planning on doing it, a few sentences a day together.

 

Have you had her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist?  Just wondering if there's an explanation for her screen aversion...

 

Yes WWS is totally different from WWE.  WWS gives them the content up front so they aren't hunting (most of the time) and slowly builds up structures so they develop this kind of structural repertoire.  It's a really savvy way of approaching writing for kids who struggle with structure.  I couldn't really make the process painless, because reality is it IS HARD WORK.  But there's a difference between hard work and impossible work or inappropriate work.  The instructions are very, very detailed, so detailed that my dd could get lost in them and needed highlighting to find the salient points.  With the highlighting (and some amount of resolve that it was inescapable) she could sit down and do it.  

 

I was very inspired in my firmness (within reason, with tasks that I knew were within reach and adequately structured) by a comment a mom on the boards made here a couple years ago about how she had struggled and struggled with writing and finally got over the hump when, as a budding lawyer, she got the grunt work of writing reports over and over...  Same genre, just doing it, doing it, doing it, till she could churn them out in her sleep.  It was, in her case, quantity that helped make things connect.

 

So that's why I did what, on the surface seems kind of mean, and for my dd it worked out. 

[AimeeM]

If it's doable, I think she would prefer something like WWS to IEW.

 

She doesn't have a screen aversion, per se - just an aversion to using it as a core for her studies (she loves it for free time, and isn't adverse to using it occasionally for research - just requested it never be used as a core).

 

Could one go into WWS when not even able to compose a paragraph correctly, without complete hand holding? <---- that's where we are right now. She does have great content, but mechanics and actual structure of her writing is all over the place unless I hold her hand through the entire thing (how to start a paragraph, the body, how to end it, etc). I was under the impression that WWS was for children a bit further along in writing? Does it rely heavily on auditory skills (she's a visual learner; besides the dyslexia and written expression issues, she has auditory processing problems).

 

What about IEW's "Fix It!" for grammar and mechanics? Supposedly the new edition has direct instruction?

Aw shucks, I loved being incognito.   :D

 

Aimee, I think the contests my dd was entering helped spur her with the fan fiction.  Maybe your dd would have an outlet like that?  

 

And yes, it's ok to do writing without grading, correcting, etc.  If she has an audience, maybe that will shift the dynamic and cause her to come to you?  Do you do any separate editing?  Maybe find an editing book and just go through a small amount (3 sentences, 5 minutes) a day...  I confess I haven't found anything I majorly love for that, ugh.  We need to finish AG, and the 3rd season is all punctuation.  That's how we're planning on doing it, a few sentences a day together.

 

Have you had her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist?  Just wondering if there's an explanation for her screen aversion...

 

Yes WWS is totally different from WWE.  WWS gives them the content up front so they aren't hunting (most of the time) and slowly builds up structures so they develop this kind of structural repertoire.  It's a really savvy way of approaching writing for kids who struggle with structure.  I couldn't really make the process painless, because reality is it IS HARD WORK.  But there's a difference between hard work and impossible work or inappropriate work.  The instructions are very, very detailed, so detailed that my dd could get lost in them and needed highlighting to find the salient points.  With the highlighting (and some amount of resolve that it was inescapable) she could sit down and do it.  

 

I was very inspired in my firmness (within reason, with tasks that I knew were within reach and adequately structured) by a comment a mom on the boards made here a couple years ago about how she had struggled and struggled with writing and finally got over the hump when, as a budding lawyer, she got the grunt work of writing reports over and over...  Same genre, just doing it, doing it, doing it, till she could churn them out in her sleep.  It was, in her case, quantity that helped make things connect.

 

So that's why I did what, on the surface seems kind of mean, and for my dd it worked out. 

 

[PeterPan]

Shhh, let out a dirty secret... I've NEVER made my dd write the type of paragraphs you're describing.  She did awesome in WWS.  :D

 

The main thing is to make sure she can sift through all the text and glean the most important points (hence the highlighting suggestion) and then to be willing to sit down and do it with her, showing her how to open Inspiration, how to dump her thoughts, how to do what it says.  I make little notes like: use Inspiration here, IN NOTEBOOK when it says to list something, that kind of thing.  *Usually* when dd comes to me and is stumped, it turns out she skipped the specified steps in WWS.  It has ALL the logical steps.  It's going to blow your mind how careful she was to put all the steps.  If they will just do what she said, it will work.  Because I highlight the lessons, I know what the steps were and can find them easily to verify she did them.  Trust but verify!  :D

 

Hmm, is there maybe a social component to her, that she's maybe very extrovert and feels like getting relegated to the computer is banishment? Just throwing that out.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Aimee, Elizabeth is giving you some great advice (as are others).  I promised I would give you a review once I got back from the homeschooling conference and I must say I did like the revised version of Fix-It Grammar.  It does have direct instruction, as well.  I went ahead and ordered it.  Once it comes in, I can, perhaps, answer any questions you have in more detail.  Unfortunately, since it is brand new and a lot of people have ordered it, I may not receive my copy for about a month.

[AimeeM]

Shhh, let out a dirty secret... I've NEVER made my dd write the type of paragraphs you're describing.  She did awesome in WWS.   :D

 

The main thing is to make sure she can sift through all the text and glean the most important points (hence the highlighting suggestion) and then to be willing to sit down and do it with her, showing her how to open Inspiration, how to dump her thoughts, how to do what it says.  I make little notes like: use Inspiration here, IN NOTEBOOK when it says to list something, that kind of thing.  *Usually* when dd comes to me and is stumped, it turns out she skipped the specified steps in WWS.  It has ALL the logical steps.  It's going to blow your mind how careful she was to put all the steps.  If they will just do what she said, it will work.  Because I highlight the lessons, I know what the steps were and can find them easily to verify she did them.  Trust but verify!   :D

 

Hmm, is there maybe a social component to her, that she's maybe very extrovert and feels like getting relegated to the computer is banishment? Just throwing that out.  

She is very, very much an extrovert :) She prefers to do her work out here with us, but frankly, she spend the entire time telling the dog to quiet down, being distracted by the babe, having to ward off the 5 year old who wants to "help" (small downtown home - there's nowhere for the boys to go to ensure quiet for her); her distraction is valid, as we took her off her ADD medication; after 6 years on it, mood swings were becoming unbearable and she's much more pleasant and happy off the meds. She is easily over stimulated and distracted, though.

 

I'm not sure IEW would have worked well this upcoming year, regardless. I'm trying to focus her mom-dependent work during the soon-to-be-2 year old's nap time (about 2 hours), but most of her other subjects are mom intensive as well, and the screen in the living room can be my saving grace when I need to get work done with DD or DS5 - pop on Mickey and I might get some time in with the other kids, lol.

 

I think we WILL try WWS. I've been looking for a textbook geared writing program for her, since she didn't want IEW and this sounds like it'll fit the bill.

[AimeeM]

Aimee, Elizabeth is giving you some great advice (as are others).  I promised I would give you a review once I got back from the homeschooling conference and I must say I did like the revised version of Fix-It Grammar.  It does have direct instruction, as well.  I went ahead and ordered it.  Once it comes in, I can, perhaps, answer any questions you have in more detail.  Unfortunately, since it is brand new and a lot of people have ordered it, I may not receive my copy for about a month.

 

Thank you!!! I think I'll order it, then. I was hoping you would say that it had more direct instruction - I like the idea of focusing on editing with her (so she has some context; she does memorize definitions for grammar concepts, but can't really apply them, kwim?).

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you!!! I think I'll order it, then. I was hoping you would say that it had more direct instruction - I like the idea of focusing on editing with her (so she has some context; she does memorize definitions for grammar concepts, but can't really apply them, kwim?).

 

I hope it works for you.  I wanted to spend more time perusing Fix-it but didn't get a chance.  I decided to order it anyway since I liked what I saw, another homeschooler there already had it and really likes the revisions (she had the old one, too) and we have actually committed to IEW for the Fall, or at least starting in January, depending on how far we get in Barton over the summer....It just seemed like a good fit.  I do plan to be pretty flexible with IEW and have seen some good suggestions on TWTM forum for how to do that.  

[geodob]

You wrote: "She has amazing content to her writing, but it is incredibly stressful for her when she knows it's being graded on grammar, spelling, and structure."

Which makes me wonder if she has developed an anxiety disorder associated with writing?

With the thought of being graded, being the trigger.

This is more often described as Test Anxiety.

 

Where your idea 'to go light/fun on the language arts this next year.'

Could help her to develop a new 'mental script', to replace the thought of anxiety about being graded?

 

[PeterPan]

Hmm, that's a challenge!  And the challenging part is the toddler underfoot.  It would be easy to have mandatory quiet times for 1/2 hour bursts if you didn't have the toddler, hmmm...  Seriously, there's another poster who hangs on Gen a lot who has a flood of girls with enough ADD to launch balloons (like ALL of them?).  Is she Barb?  I usually just recognize her avatar.  You might pm her.  Surely she had some extroverts in there to give you advice.  

 

Have you thought about Neurofeedback?  It's considered as effective as meds.  We make do without meds (and haven't done nfb) but it's not pretty.  Right now I'm pondering if we could find $$$ to pursue it.  Reality without meds is NOT pretty, no matter how much you bend.  There are things you already know...

 

-break the work into chunks taking no more than 30 minutes

-make a checklist for the day/week so it's TOTALLY CLEAR what she's to do

-try to get the work so clear that she can pick it up and do it without you

-have a consistent routine

-create a quiet buffer.  For instance if dd12 has an assigned space in a room that is *adjacent* and has an open door but just enough removed that the bustle of a quietly busy 2 yo doesn't overwhelm her, that could work.  A 2 yo can be taught to work quietly for a while.  Ok, my kid had verbal apraxia (no speech) and gave new meaning to quiet, lol.  But they can be taught.  Structure it by putting on an audiobook and having defined tasks like floor time or puzzle time or quiet toy bin time or whatever.  You might be able to get two of those (spaced of course), then have a quiet independent play time (flannel graph, wash dishes in a dish tub, hang doll clothe laundry, etc.) and later a quiet video time.  Seems to me she could get 1-1 1/2 hours of quiet time a day where she could be adjacent but have it be block able.  Then she goes to her writing closet JUST for writing.  Decorate a writing closet and make it totally hip.  That way it's someplace she goes for a while and comes back from.

-Are you an extrovert?  Extroverts often need to TALK about what they're reading or feeling or thinking or exploring.  You might schedule this into your daily checklist, so she knows the other kids aren't going to intrude.  The other kids then get something else scheduled during that time (yard play, walk to Grandma's, whatever).

 

Keep working on it.  I'm sure you'll figure out things that work!  :)

[AimeeM]

Hmm, that's a challenge!  And the challenging part is the toddler underfoot.  It would be easy to have mandatory quiet times for 1/2 hour bursts if you didn't have the toddler, hmmm...  Seriously, there's another poster who hangs on Gen a lot who has a flood of girls with enough ADD to launch balloons (like ALL of them?).  Is she Barb?  I usually just recognize her avatar.  You might pm her.  Surely she had some extroverts in there to give you advice.  

 

Have you thought about Neurofeedback?  It's considered as effective as meds.  We make do without meds (and haven't done nfb) but it's not pretty.  Right now I'm pondering if we could find $$$ to pursue it.  Reality without meds is NOT pretty, no matter how much you bend.  There are things you already know...

 

-break the work into chunks taking no more than 30 minutes

-make a checklist for the day/week so it's TOTALLY CLEAR what she's to do

-try to get the work so clear that she can pick it up and do it without you

-have a consistent routine

-create a quiet buffer.  For instance if dd12 has an assigned space in a room that is *adjacent* and has an open door but just enough removed that the bustle of a quietly busy 2 yo doesn't overwhelm her, that could work.  A 2 yo can be taught to work quietly for a while.  Ok, my kid had verbal apraxia (no speech) and gave new meaning to quiet, lol.  But they can be taught.  Structure it by putting on an audiobook and having defined tasks like floor time or puzzle time or quiet toy bin time or whatever.  You might be able to get two of those (spaced of course), then have a quiet independent play time (flannel graph, wash dishes in a dish tub, hang doll clothe laundry, etc.) and later a quiet video time.  Seems to me she could get 1-1 1/2 hours of quiet time a day where she could be adjacent but have it be block able.  Then she goes to her writing closet JUST for writing.  Decorate a writing closet and make it totally hip.  That way it's someplace she goes for a while and comes back from.

-Are you an extrovert?  Extroverts often need to TALK about what they're reading or feeling or thinking or exploring.  You might schedule this into your daily checklist, so she knows the other kids aren't going to intrude.  The other kids then get something else scheduled during that time (yard play, walk to Grandma's, whatever).

 

Keep working on it.  I'm sure you'll figure out things that work!   :)

 

Marco (almost 2) gives new meaning to "Toddler Monster" - this is the kid that fractured his skull at 7 months old, launching himself from our king size bed onto the hardwood floor. He climbs everything, anything, and with no fear. He is loud, uncensored, and has managed to climb out of any containment device I can come up with (play pen, jumper, etc). I can't put him in the boys' bedroom, because he climbs onto the top bunk... or the toy box... or the recliner... and proceeds to do headstands and flip over :glare: .

 

We DO have a largely unused office off the living room. She wouldn't be able to have the door open if she wanted/needed quiet, BUT I could make it a nice place for her - there is already aesthetically pleasing solid wood furniture, and I bet she would flip if we put the unused Mac (some kind of a huge screen deal, that is just sitting in the basement right now) in there for her. She likes to listen to music while she works, so that could drown out some noise :P

 

Oddly enough, she is MORE efficient (when there aren't distractions) off of her medication - and so much more joyful about her day/work!

[AimeeM]

I hope it works for you.  I wanted to spend more time perusing Fix-it but didn't get a chance.  I decided to order it anyway since I liked what I saw, another homeschooler there already had it and really likes the revisions (she had the old one, too) and we have actually committed to IEW for the Fall, or at least starting in January, depending on how far we get in Barton over the summer....It just seemed like a good fit.  I do plan to be pretty flexible with IEW and have seen some good suggestions on TWTM forum for how to do that.  

 

I'm excited about the revisions! I can't seem to figure out what to order from the site - it lists multiple books, etc?

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm excited about the revisions! I can't seem to figure out what to order from the site - it lists multiple books, etc?

Wow, yes you are right.  When I ordered at the convention I didn't see that there were so many books.  They only showed me two.  It might be better if you call and ask.  Then if you have a moment let me know what they say?   :)  Maybe I didn't order the whole thing.  Going to check my receipt now....

[PeterPan]

Marco (almost 2) gives new meaning to "Toddler Monster" - this is the kid that fractured his skull at 7 months old, launching himself from our king size bed onto the hardwood floor. He climbs everything, anything, and with no fear. He is loud, uncensored, and has managed to climb out of any containment device I can come up with (play pen, jumper, etc). I can't put him in the boys' bedroom, because he climbs onto the top bunk... or the toy box... or the recliner... and proceeds to do headstands and flip over :glare: .

 

We DO have a largely unused office off the living room. She wouldn't be able to have the door open if she wanted/needed quiet, BUT I could make it a nice place for her - there is already aesthetically pleasing solid wood furniture, and I bet she would flip if we put the unused Mac (some kind of a huge screen deal, that is just sitting in the basement right now) in there for her. She likes to listen to music while she works, so that could drown out some noise :p

 

Oddly enough, she is MORE efficient (when there aren't distractions) off of her medication - and so much more joyful about her day/work!

Sounds great!  And you know she's right about at that line where you could leave her.  Usually 12 is when you can start for short periods of time.  Our YMCA has something called RAT pack I've been thinking of signing ds up for.  It's sort of a rowdy/tumbling class.  If you found a class or something like that you could take the two littles out for an hour while she works. Then in the afternoon you could go to the park, giving her a 2nd hour of peace.  Later do something together so she doesn't feel left out.  (board games while they nap...)  :)

 

Btw, you know this, but if she starts using the computer regularly, put her on a user account and put parental controls on it.  That way you can lock Skype and Messages.  To the teen mind, it's perfectly practical to do those things and do schoolwork at the same time.   :lol: 

[SandyKC]

Marco (almost 2) gives new meaning to "Toddler Monster" - this is the kid that fractured his skull at 7 months old, launching himself from our king size bed onto the hardwood floor. He climbs everything, anything, and with no fear. He is loud, uncensored, and has managed to climb out of any containment device I can come up with (play pen, jumper, etc). I can't put him in the boys' bedroom, because he climbs onto the top bunk... or the toy box... or the recliner... and proceeds to do headstands and flip over :glare: .

 

We DO have a largely unused office off the living room. She wouldn't be able to have the door open if she wanted/needed quiet, BUT I could make it a nice place for her - there is already aesthetically pleasing solid wood furniture, and I bet she would flip if we put the unused Mac (some kind of a huge screen deal, that is just sitting in the basement right now) in there for her. She likes to listen to music while she works, so that could drown out some noise :p

 

Oddly enough, she is MORE efficient (when there aren't distractions) off of her medication - and so much more joyful about her day/work!

 

LOL, Aimee!! We called our youngest "The Human Tornado" when he was a toddler.. He didn't enter a room without leaving chaos behind. He LITERALLY climbed windows and doorways, and similarly escaped containment measures.  He put his bottom teeth through his bottom lip (it was gruesome), flipped over the handle bars of his Big Wheel and we felt like we needed a "Frequent Visitor's" card for the hospital!!  We survived! HE survived!

 

May it be encouragement to you: He is a LOT more "chillaxed" as a teen.. He did learn there are consequences and pain for many actions.  We were just looking at our "full set" of crutches from small to six-foot adult yesterday.  DS is using the tallest set right now (just had knee surgery), but I think we can get rid of the smaller sizes!! LOL!

 

I was going to say too.. Having that quiet office space for your DD may be just what she needs to be able to cope with writing too.  If she can be in a relaxed environment, then it may ease her feelings enough to be mentally able to cope with writing.  Given it is stressful for her, eliminating all of the other stress around her that you can seems like a solid plan of attack.  When we shifted my older son's learning environment to his bedroom (mid-teens), he really was able to focus on his work better.  It's a challenge to balance each child's needs--that's for sure!

[AimeeM]

LOL, Aimee!! We called our youngest "The Human Tornado" when he was a toddler.. He didn't enter a room without leaving chaos behind. He LITERALLY climbed windows and doorways, and similarly escaped containment measures.  He put his bottom teeth through his bottom lip (it was gruesome), flipped over the handle bars of his Big Wheel and we felt like we needed a "Frequent Visitor's" card for the hospital!!  We survived! HE survived!

 

May it be encouragement to you: He is a LOT more "chillaxed" as a teen.. He did learn there are consequences and pain for many actions.  We were just looking at our "full set" of crutches from small to six-foot adult yesterday.  DS is using the tallest set right now (just had knee surgery), but I think we can get rid of the smaller sizes!! LOL!

 

I was going to say too.. Having that quiet office space for your DD may be just what she needs to be able to cope with writing too.  If she can be in a relaxed environment, then it may ease her feelings enough to be mentally able to cope with writing.  Given it is stressful for her, eliminating all of the other stress around her that you can seems like a solid plan of attack.  When we shifted my older son's learning environment to his bedroom (mid-teens), he really was able to focus on his work better.  It's a challenge to balance each child's needs--that's for sure!

Bless you for telling me that it may get better! I was in tears last night. I thought for sure that I was going down for Worst Mom of the Year - I am so exhausted by the end of the day (just from running after Toddler Monster!) that I'm short with everyone, cranky, and NOT the playful, goofy mom I was a year ago. I actually yelled that I was going to get a job and put everyone in day care :( I didn't mean it, of course, but oh my - the Toddler Monster doesn't even sleep at night (and I sleep on the floor WITH him, so that he doesn't find anything to climb on in the middle of the night).

 

I must keep repeating that this too shall pass :P

 

Yes, I'm going to set up a nice area in the office for DD, I think, and also a lab area in the basement for science. I hope your son heals from his surgery quickly!

[SandyKC]

Bless you for telling me that it may get better! I was in tears last night. I thought for sure that I was going down for Worst Mom of the Year - I am so exhausted by the end of the day (just from running after Toddler Monster!) that I'm short with everyone, cranky, and NOT the playful, goofy mom I was a year ago. I actually yelled that I was going to get a job and put everyone in day care :( I didn't mean it, of course, but oh my - the Toddler Monster doesn't even sleep at night (and I sleep on the floor WITH him, so that he doesn't find anything to climb on in the middle of the night).

 

I must keep repeating that this too shall pass :p

 

Yes, I'm going to set up a nice area in the office for DD, I think, and also a lab area in the basement for science. I hope your son heals from his surgery quickly!

 

OH how I feel your exhaustion!!  Oldest DS didn't sleep through the night until he was four.  I felt like I was living in a sleep deprivation experiment.  It really does mess with your mind and disposition.  SO SORRY you're going through that.  Hope it all chills out for you SOON.  I KNOW you want a good night's sleep and/or a restorative nap each day! HUGS!

[OneStepAtATime]

Aimee, I did get all my IEW and Fix-It Grammar materials in so if you still needed additional information I might be able to help answer any questions you may still have.  How is it going on planning and getting in resources?  I know this is your daughter's last week in her current school.  I hope everything is going o.k.

[8filltheheart]

Aimee,

 

My dyslexic ds who didn't read on grade level until sometime around 5th grade, won an honorable mention in a science essay contest with over 9000 entrants when he was in 10th grade.  So they can catch up.

 

I think you can keep her academics low stress and high interest while simultaneously developing her necessary writing skills.   Our ds had very weak writing skills going into middle school b/c his reading had been so behind.   We did a lot of co-writing.   It reduces the pressure and stress b/c they don't have to be able to do everything individually but it engages them intellectually at their level.   

 

An easy approach is to use online articles that match an interest.   Work with them on how to gather notes (high lighters on the articles work great).   Use colored note cards and organize notes so that matching topics go on a single color.  Outline and organize the notes by topic and write the report together.  

 

It really doesn't have to be an either/or scenario.   Writing together allows her to develop the foundation that underlies the process without frustrating her b/c it is overwhelming.   It keeps her moving forward so that over time you start weaning her off of the support and she can do it independently.

 

 

[LaughingCat]

  We did a lot of co-writing.   It reduces the pressure and stress b/c they don't have to be able to do everything individually but it engages them intellectually at their level.   

 

An easy approach is to use online articles that match an interest.   Work with them on how to gather notes (high lighters on the articles work great).   Use colored note cards and organize notes so that matching topics go on a single color.  Outline and organize the notes by topic and write the report together.  

 

Can you say more about this? 

[8filltheheart]

Can you say more about this? 

 

It really is a simple process.   For beginning report writers, I print up 3 articles on the same topic but might have slightly different information.   We read through all the articles together.   After reading the articles (or even while reading them) I ask questions getting them to see what information is key vs. what is not vital.    We then go through the articles highlighting the same topical pts in the same color highlighter.   This makes it easier for going back and taking notes.

 

After highlighting all the pts, we go back through and decide if any of the highlighted information might now be unnecessary.   I have them write down notes in their own words from the different articles onto the notecards. (for older kids, you should also include quoted material and biblio info for summarized content.   I don't worry about that until they are able to handle basic writing independently though.)

 

Next we organize the notecards into a logical order by placing them in stacks.   They create an outline based on the the themes of the different stacks and the details on the notecards.

 

I help them write the topic paragraph, typically help them develop a topic sentence for each supporting paragraph based on their outline and how to incorporate the supporting details from their notecards.

 

Basically, it is sitting with them and walking though every step with them.   They can even have the parent scribe as they come with their own sentences,etc.

 

THe main objective is that they are learning how to discern important information, taking notes, organizing their thoughts, and producing a paper.   If they are actively  participating in the process, they are learning the essential skills.   Eventually stepping back is not difficult.   Let them read the articles on their own and show you their highlights.   After they have discussed it with you, let them generate their own notecards.   Discuss how they can take the notecards and create their own outline, etc.   Give them the topic paragraph and let them generate the supporting paragraphs,etc.   You basically wean them off of your support.

[Heathermomster]

8, have you ever taught your dyslexic son how to take Cornell notes? How does he take class notes?

 

Eta: Also, did you ever do copia type exercises?

[8filltheheart]

No Cornell notes. He learned to take notes from TC lectures. He has come up with his own sort of shorthand (I told him when I was college I created my own symbols that I knew what they meant when I was reading my notes and he has come up with something similar that works for him.

 

I don't know what copia exercises are, so I guess the answer to that is no. ;)

[Heathermomster]

I suppose I should not be using big words that I'm not 100% certain about. :)

 

I mean, did you purposefully play with sentences and rewrite them, so that they said the same thing, just differently? If so, what resources did you use?

 

For clarification, was each individual highlighted note given its own notecard? I'm assuming they write the notes in their own words to avoid plagiarism. Did your DS prefer any specific magazines or periodicals to write from?

[8filltheheart]

We always play around with sentences. It just how I teach in general. And, no they don't copy the note from the articles (unless they are at the pt of incorporating quotes.). Typically, we discuss the "same color" notes and what they mean and they write down the idea in their own words from our conversation. But when they are older, I teach them that does not negate required citation. Any info they use from a source, in their own words or otherwise, they site as a paraphrase.

 

Afor sources, I would start off with just googling topics and select edu type sites. We access the online journals etc from the library databases when they are more proficient writers. I don't worry about this level of instruction, though, until they have a solid grasp of writing in general. No need to overwhelm with too much info unnecessarily.

 

Fwiw, I have never found a writing curriculum that I like. So, I am finishing up a writing curriculum geared toward solid reading 3-4th graders in the next few weeks. I haven't decided for sure how I am going to publish it initially.

[AimeeM]

Aimee, I did get all my IEW and Fix-It Grammar materials in so if you still needed additional information I might be able to help answer any questions you may still have.  How is it going on planning and getting in resources?  I know this is your daughter's last week in her current school.  I hope everything is going o.k.

 

I am really struggling on choosing a writing program. She actually seems very solid in her understanding of grammar, surprisingly (to me). Of course, grammar in isolation was never a problem for her - using it in context was/is, so there's that. I did buy Seton's grammar/english to look through, but it doesn't really help with the application/in context issue. How does Fix It! look for that?

 

Writing... oh my. I have no freakin' clue. She does not, absolutely does not, want IEW. I'll note that she actually has fantastic content in her writing (and it has been noted at every p/t conference this year that she's a great writing) - but she absolutely struggles with the mechanics of writing, and the "how to" of actual writing. When I say she struggles, I mean she can't even correctly formulate a cohesive paragraph, so that absolutely needs to be worked on - but without killing the creativity, kwim? She is very creative, and enjoys making up stories. She writes frequently and enjoys it,... when she doesn't think that it's going to be graded, and when there isn't a strict deadline or guideline (like that it's due on x day, and must be at least x number of words, etc).

 

The rest of it is coming along, albeit slowly. I've ordered almost everything BUT writing, history, and the (huge!) science basket I have waiting on Amazon, lol! I have her maths (pre-algebra review for summer; algebra 1 this fall), literature, spelling, and religion on hand now :D

[OneStepAtATime]

I am drawing a blank.  Sorry.  I can't remember if you said if there is any sort of homeschool group in your area that does some actual writing classes?  Since she is so social I thought she might enjoy doing a class outside of home and that would take some stuff off your shoulders.  Or maybe science?  We don't have anything like that in our area but there are some co-ops that offer real classes about an hour away from us.  I will look through Fix It for context application....gotta get to the grocery store so it will be a bit, though.

[Storygirl]

Aimee, have you tried having her do her normal creative writing and then revising it together to fix the mechanics? She wouldn't have to do this with each of her stories,  but could select one of them to work on with you at a time. Sometimes people just need to get it all out on the page before they can work on the details. Their minds can only focus on part of the process at a time, so do it in steps. This can work for both creative and academic writing.

 

I tend to write in the opposite way -- I write and rewrite each sentence, often erasing half a sentence and redoing it several times, so that by the time I get to the period, it is done. (I paid attention as I wrote that previous sentence, and I probably backspaced, corrected, and revised it 12 times before I got to the end, so I'm probably on the extreme end of this part of the process. It makes me a very slow writer, but I end up saying just what I want.) Many others just need to get it all out and then go back to revise.

 

In a creative writing class in college, we had the assignment to revise a piece of writing that we had already presented to the class.  A friend of mine "revised" hers by completely changing it into a different story.  She was a talented writer but hadn't learned how to refine something that she had already written. It's a valuable skill that even some good writers lack, so it's worth working on if your daughter is willing. Once she tries it, she may be so pleased with her revised work that she might be more willing to do it again. 

 

If you gave her a block of free creative writing time each day, worked on revising some of those stories to make them into a finished product, plus wrote a few research papers following 8Filltheheart's process (or something similar), I think it would make a very strong writing year for your daughter, and you could do it without purchasing a curriculum, other than something to regularly practice grammar and mechanics if you think she needs that.

[Heathermomster]

Thank-you, 8FillTheHeart!  I am excited about your writing curriculum.

 

Aimee, I think you should try what 8FillTheHeart is suggesting.  Your DD is going to require gentle scaffolding without the concern for meeting the reqs of a new program.  Maybe combine that with the free time daily writes. 

[AimeeM]

Would bravewriter work for something like this?

[Heathermomster]

I'm not sure I understand the question.  I have never seen Bravewriter; however, you can scaffold as 8FillTheHeart described using ANY writing program. 

 

 

[MiMi 4under3]

 I very badly want to reignite some love of learning for her this year - and I would say this is my primary goal for the year - while still allowing for some progress.

 

:iagree:

 

This is never a bad idea!  :)

 

 

Have you seen the Imitation in Writing series by Logos School? It's open-and-go, very direct/straightforward, and has a full template for creative writing. Really, it's foolproof. And the first "level" (Aesop) is not too babyish for a 7th grader - it allows kids of all levels to work simultaneously.

[VinNY]

May I recommend Diana Hansbury King's Writing Skills Series. It is a structured incremental approach created by educators who have worked specifically with dyslexic and language impaired children.  

[OneStepAtATime]

O.k. you have gotten some great advice on writing.  I hope you find something within the wealth of suggestions upthread that meet your needs and the needs of your daughter.

 

I wanted to address your specific question on Fix-It Grammar.  I received the materials for book 1 and book 2 and have skimmed through the materials, but obviously I am not an expert.  I got the revised/revamped version.  It teaches grammar by using literature and breaking down the existing literature.  It appears to be very well organized and carefully laid out, day by day, week by week.  

 

1.  The Teacher Manual is spiral bound and the student manual is accessed on-line through an e-book, along with other materials.  There is an option to get the student book printed out.

 

2.  The first book is called "The Nose Tree".  The first TM is dealing with this book and the grammar exercises are based on passages from this book.  The second book is "Robin Hood" and again the 2nd TM deals with this book.

 

3. Grammar work is supposed to be 15 minutes a day, 4 days a week, for 33 weeks for each manual. (so you could probably just order the first TM for The Nose Tree to see if you like it before committing to the rest of the program).

 

4.  The TM appears to be very readable and well-laid out.  Although this probably isn't a consideration for you, I have poor eyesight and the contrast is really good between the print and the paper.  I can read it easily.

 

5.  The emphasis is on keeping lessons short, light, fun and meaty.

 

6.  There is a webinar to show how to use the program at IEW.com/Fix (I have not watched this yet).  There is also a teacher forum you can join to get tips and tricks and advice.

 

7.There are grammar cards you cut out and use weekly to support the lesson and keep the student from being forced to just rote memorize everything.  Learning is supposed to happen by using and interacting with the material and constant, systematic exposure through quality literature.

 

8.  The TM gives very detailed guidance and things to look out for that might trip a student up.  

 

9.  The student book is written to the student and even though this is the first level, it assumes that the child is not just starting out with no knowledge of sentences, etc.  It seems well suited to a middle schooler that might resent being talked down to but still needs details and structure.

 

10.  The TM also has notes on what to do if your child is noticing and performing at a more advanced level or is struggling so it seems pretty easy to adjust the lessons to many levels of ability/back ground knowledge.

 

I am not certain I have answered all the questions you might have.  Feel free to ask and I can try and give you more detailed information.

 

Best wishes.

[OneStepAtATime]

Posting the response to your question here, too, Aimee, in case someone else reads this thread and wants to know.  Yes, Fix it! Grammar (new version) does seem to cover punctuation, too.  

[Saddlemomma]

Really sorry if I'm joining in too late, but have you considered Jump In (Amazon) as a potential writing curriculum? 

 

A little background on our situation first.  When I began homeschooling 7 years ago, being a newbie, I didn't really know what to do for writing. Rather than going the portfolio route, I enlisted the aid of a K-8 teacher I met.  She is our evaluator each year.  Since she follows the PB way of doing things, when I asked her about writing instruction, she just advised me to have DD write -- about anything.  I specifically asked about writing instruction, but she said it wasn't necessary, just have her write "whatever she feels writing about".  (This was all before I found TWTM and it's forum) I had doubts, but that's what we did for several years.  Well, DD can certainly write fiction.  In fact, this year she wrote her first play, and it was produced as one of four in her Children's Theater group.  It was performed on stage in the HS auditorium for the public.

 

Fast forward to this last year. In the beginning of the year, I had her start a Maine State History book where she had to write about significant facts (short one - three paragraphs) about pertinent state history.  It was a nightmare!  We had lots of tears and feelings of inadequacy. Thus my discovery of how deficient (really non-existent) our non-fiction writing program had been.  I explained to DD it wasn't her fault -- it was mine for not listening to my gut in the first place. We ditched the Maine State History journal.

 

Through research on the writing threads on this forum, I started teaching DD about narrations and outlines.   After several writings in history and science. I tried again with a US History notebook with short narrations about what we were learning through TOG's Y2 Units 3 and 4.  It was a struggle, but there were less tears.  I found that DD (with her father's engineering mind) needs clear-cut, short instructions and works better with a simple checklist for her writing. She's done much better, but there's a lot of room for improvement.  We plan to continue the US History notebook into TOG Y3 and add a science notebook for our interest-led science next year.  I plan to concentrate on writing for the next three years so these continued narrations and outlines will be in addition to her writing classes, building up to essays and research papers. 

 

For her writing class, I researched all kinds of curricula suggested on this board.  When I first discovered our problem, I tried MP's CC, and it was a disaster. The continuous rewrites just about killed DD and destroyed any glimmer of enthusiasm she might have had in writing, so I knew we didn't want another progym-style curriculum.  IEW was too expensive, and, knowing DD, using cute terms such as "dress-ups" rather than the real terms and adding copious amounts of them unnecessarily would drive her nuts. She's more of a cut and dried and to the point kind of girl. Nothing looked as easy, quick, to-the-point, engaging, and cost-effective as Jump In, so I bought it for her for next year. 

 

I was intrigued by Jump In because it's written to the student, is open and go, and has a gentle introduction by asking the student about his/her opinions and generating writing based upon those opinions.  Each lesson slowly builds upon the others. More importantly, it covers the major writing areas all middle school students need to be familiar with: Opinion, Persuasion, Narrative, Exposition, Descriptive and Poetry. As an added bonus, it also looks like it will be FUN.  Right now, it's very important for us to get DD to relax and actually learn to like writing non-fiction.  After perusing Jump In when it arrived, I think it will fit the bill nicely as a gentle, fun, introduction to non-fiction writing.

 

In addition to Jump In, we'll be using Grammar For Middle School by Killgallon.  We started using this the latter part of this past year, and DD actually likes the exercises. I'll also be interspersing Figuratively Speaking into our TOG Literature.  After we finish Jump In, I have WWS1 waiting in the wings or, if DD doesn't mesh with WWS, I found a discarded Writers Express text by Write Source (1995 version) in the Library a couple weeks ago.  I paid .25 for it. It's listed for grades 4-5, but it has a ton of great tips and checklists for young writers that can be adapted and utilized by any age. I'm also contemplating Meaningful Composition.

 

I have also ordered and plan to incorporate IEW's Fix It Grammar-The Nose Tree into our existing grammar program.  I have been using the older version and DD really likes it.  The revamped version looks much better and easier to implement.

 

Light yet succinct, thorough, and engaging (hopefully fun) needs to be our goal in approaching this problem, so we can rebuild DD's confidence. Jump In looks like it will fit all those criteria. Is it something you think might work for your DD? It sounds like you're in the same position we are but for different reasons.

[Tiramisu]

We always play around with sentences. It just how I teach in general. And, no they don't copy the note from the articles (unless they are at the pt of incorporating quotes.). Typically, we discuss the "same color" notes and what they mean and they write down the idea in their own words from our conversation. But when they are older, I teach them that does not negate required citation. Any info they use from a source, in their own words or otherwise, they site as a paraphrase.

 

Afor sources, I would start off with just googling topics and select edu type sites. We access the online journals etc from the library databases when they are more proficient writers. I don't worry about this level of instruction, though, until they have a solid grasp of writing in general. No need to overwhelm with too much info unnecessarily.

 

Fwiw, I have never found a writing curriculum that I like. So, I am finishing up a writing curriculum geared toward solid reading 3-4th graders in the next few weeks. I haven't decided for sure how I am going to publish it initially.

 

Well, 8, I have a rising 3rd grader. She's a strong reader. Unfortunately, she has strong opinions about curriculum, but she's unusually curious and might like report writing on high interest topics with me helping her. If you would like a guinea pig, let me know. :)