Piano people...used acoustic or new digital?

[Samiam]

We are signing up all three boys for lessons. Already have the teacher lined up. So now we need a piano. I've done some research...I know what NOT to get with digital...ie a cheaply keyboard is not ideal. I've read the risk of getting "free" or cheap pianos from Craigslist, etc. That is ALL I know, ie what I've read, don't know much else about pianos. We are considering this to be part of their education, not really optional and a long term venture.

 

So our choices thus far:

 

1. A digital piano from the piano store. It looks like a real piano, pedals and all. Sounds like a baby grand. Salesperson said this would all we would ever need, unless our children go professional or something. Full trade in value given for price we pay, if we ever do upgrade or want newer. 5 year warranty, parts and labor in our house. We'd pay some down and finance the rest for about 18 months. Yamaha Clavinova 430 clp.

 

2. A used acoustic. Visually it looks good, though I know that doesn't mean anything internally. It's been used 8 years in this family, (they bought it used so no knowledge of prior life). Kept Inside, inside wall, until this last week, put in garage as they prepare to move. It was tuned and played well last they used it (daughter is away to college so it has not been played on a regular basis for a few years). It doesn't appear to be "too" old, I'm guessing 20-ish years, it's not an "antique" by any means. They live in a very nice house, so I don't think there are any issues such as mice, bugs etc inside. $300...plus the cost to move,,plus the cost to tune, and cross fingers that is the only thing that needs to be fixed. But then the expense is over as in no monthly payments, besides annual tuning. But also, we plan on moving this time next year, locally, so another moving piano cost.

 

What would you do? I like the idea of the no-risk digital piano...but hate the idea of monthly payment. Love the idea of acoustic, and the much lower cost...but hate the idea of unknown risk and end-cost if there are issues that come up nice we get it home and tuner inspects. I kinda feel that we won't get our investment back, no matter which way we go...kinda like buying a used car....we get our investment back in the fact that WE use it, not expecting either to have much value if we sell it down the road...which is why this Needs to be a long term family commitment for lessons.

[gardenmom5]

I'd love to get rid of my acoustic and get a good digital.  among other things, they never need tuning, and you don't have to worry about felt wearing out.  they're also lighter and won't dent wood floors.  I just had hardwoods installed in the room with the piano (which does improve the sound as it resonates in the floor too).  we had to be tricky to not mar up the wood when moving it back.

 (while looking at houses, there were a couple that came with a piano the owners didn't want to move .  .. . )

 

 

digital you can record - and wear headphones while practicing at all hours.

[GailV]

Did the teacher express an opinion?  Our teachers have been fairly opinionated.  Heck, most pianists and accompanists we know are very opinionated.

 

I'd go with the acoustic, by the way.  Even the swanky digitals sound "off" to me, plus I'd spend my life wondering if the action is really exactly right.  And that's even with having installed wooden floors in the room it sits in  :laugh: (we used those slider things you get from the hardware store to help distribute the weight).

[Amira]

We switched to a digital piano a few years ago on the advice of a trusted pianist. We move a lot so the acoustic piano just didn't make sense, but even without the moving, I like the digital better.

 

We got a less expensive (but still good quality) Yamaha Clavinova than the one you're looking at and have been satisfied with it. We decided to go with a less expensive model now and we can upgrade later if we want to.

[Calm37]

Headphones! I am so thankful for headphones. I have two in piano and they are necessary for us.

[Jan in SC]

We have both and I would go for the acoustic. It sounds and plays better. I do have my kids do vocal warm-ups on the digital because I know it is in tune.

[Kim in Appalachia]

There isn't a wrong answer to your question.  

 

A regular piano should last 50 years (according to the man who tunes ours).  Our piano is older, and the action is not as great as it should be (but it still sounds good!).  It doens't matter to my 9 year old son, my oldest, who is taking piano in college, does mind the slower action a bit.  

 

If you get the piano, you should have someone who knows how to play it check it out, or even better, would be to have someone who tunes them check it out.  You don't want something that is "off".

 

Digitals can be nice.  Most teachers don't like them.  No matter what they claim, they are not the same.  That being said, it doesn't make much difference to a young child learning to play.

 

Digial pianos do not have the life of a regular piano, therefore they do not hold the same value.  Digial pianos break.  Once they go, they are done.  

 

It is wonderful to be able to have the student wear headphones.  Hours of practice every day can be a lot to hear.:)

 

Nothing to do with digial vs acoustic, but I would not want payments for a piano, but I guess it's not too different than renting ( I have 3 violinists, and we rented for years).

 

I prefer the acoustic, but at the same time, a good digital is better than a bad acoustic.  You should go with what fits your home and budget.  

 

Sorry that I can't give you an answer one way or the other.  Just know that whatever decision that you make, it will be the right one for your family for this time.  It's more important that you have something for your children and that they have lessons. 

[KatieJ]

We opted for the digital piano for all of the above mentioned reasons, and our son hated it.  He wanted an accoustic from the beginning. Every opportunity he had to play an accoustic, he did.  His dream is to own a baby grand. 

We gave him the digital when he got married, and he sold it.   Sigh.

[flyingiguana]

I'd play them both and decide from that. Each instrument is different, digital or acoustic. You should probably pick the one that sounds best and plays easiest for you.

 

You will be tuning that acoustic for years to come, so factor that into the cost.

 

Our digital takes up a lot less room, never needs tuning, can be played at 3 AM (which is the only way some people around here will practice), and has really jump started our daughter's experimentation with arranging music (cause you can get lots of different instruments).

 

The acoustic probably has a slightly better sound if compared to the digital without headphones, but I really prefer the digital WITH the headphones over the acoustic. The action is about the same. (It's a Kawai) Also, I can turn the digital down. My ears are sensitive and I'm sick of being blasted by piano sound for all the time that I'm practicing. With the acoustic, I'm starting to feel the need for ear plugs.

 

You get vibrations through the keyboard of the acoustic. You don't with the digital. For some people, that's a big deal. I suspect a lot of people don't even notice the difference though. I notice it, but I don't really care one way or the other.

 

If you decide to go with the digital, don't go for the fancy-schmantzy one. They'll try to sell you all the bells and whistles at the piano store. You don't need it. And some are just nicer than others.

 

You can probably read up on different brands here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/

Some do sound pretty horrible. Some sound great. (I'm not a big fan of the Clavinova, myself....)

And there are sometimes used ones that are a lot cheaper.

[brehon]

I'm an acoustic gal. I've played both extensively and greatly prefer the acoustic. As Patty Joanna mentioned no digital piano can replicate the richness and overtones of a good piano.

 

If you do decide to go digital, make sure the keys are weighted. This means they'll have the same feel as an acoustic piano.

[SailorMom]

Acoustic.  I get all the reasons for having a digital, I do, but even being military we own a baby grand.  You can't beat the sound (a studio grand is awesome as well). 

If you can get a studio or baby grand (5'5" or over), do it :)  If you have to go with a spinet or a regular smaller console, you may like the digital better, as the sound difference isn't as profound.

The only other issue is this:  if they ever want to play acoustic, they should learn on one.  The feel is different, the sustain is different, it is just a different animal altogether. 

Now - don't get me wrong, digitals can be great and there is absolutely nothing wrong with one.  But I personally can tell the difference and prefer acoustic.

[Jennifer132]

We recently chose a digital. You want to get an 88 key, with weighted keys so it feels more like a piano. I would go with a name brand rather than a store brand, especially a brand that also manufactures pianos. I grew up playing acoustic, so nostalgia makes me want one, but realistically, I like that with a digital, I can change the volume, record my pieces and hear them again so I know where I need more improvement, and move it around as need be without worrying about tuning. Also given that your kids are just starting out, I would start with a digital, just because if they end up stopping, you can sell it or store it away pretty easily. I would think that selling a piano would be more difficult (course I could be wrong).

[AlmiraGulch]

I just asked my husband, who has worked in piano sales for 20 years.

 

He says he would not go with the used acoustic.  It will cost about $499 to move, plus $250 a year to tune, and no warranty.  He said with no way of knowing the history of the piano it's a risk he wouldn't recommend.  If you want a used acoustic, he says see what they have at a local dealership, because at least those will come with a warranty.

 

He said the Clavinova you're looking at is a great piano, but he would also recommend that you look at a Casio Celviano AP-450.  New, it's about $1,399, which is much less than the Clavinova.  Should come with a 5-year warranty and also an adjustable bench.  He said Google reviews and you'll see it's 5-star rated like the Clavinova, and the sound and feel are comparable to the Clavinova.

 

He said polyphony is 256 notes on the Casio, which is the same as the Clavinova.  Many digitals are much lower. 

 

Between the two that you are currently considering, though, he said he would not recommend the risk and hassle of that used acoustic.  

 

 

[catz]

I would not get a used acoustic from a private buyer without having it checked out by a professional BEFORE moving it.  Even for free.  I know one too many people who got a free piano then had to pay to dispose of it. 

 

We have both - acoustic and an 88 weighted key digital.  All things being equal with a kid going into a traditional track of piano lessons, my preference would by far be for an acoustic.  We have a rebuilt 100 year old piano which is great.  My kid is advanced now (learning concertos, sonatas, etc), and it's been wonderful.  He could NOT have gotten to this level on just an electric.  I think a decent acoustic has much more room for growth and it's much easier to switch to an electric than the other way.

 

ETA - even with weighted keys, the digital still does not have the feel of the acoustic IMO.  It's dangerous if the kid her practices too long on the digital.  He mostly uses the digital for composition software and on the road use.

[gardenmom5]

a *good* acoustic will sound better - but the fact is, just because an acoustic is *new* doesn't mean it sounds good.  I've played on some that sounded awful.  acoustics will also vary from piano to piano.  I had the opportunity to practice on several different ones.  the resistance of the key's varies as well as the soundboard, just things of which to be aware. 

 

when I purchased my (very cheap 'cause that's what I could afford) used acoustic, I was able to compare it to another that was 1) newerish, 2) looked a LOT better, 3) had a horrible sound board.  the felt on mine is going now on a few keys - but the soundboard was good.

 

so, if you decide to get an acoustic, absolutely play, play play for how it sounds.

 

 

[flyingiguana]

One more thought -- acoustic pianos are made to be heard by an audience. In other words, the *player* is not really the intended listener.

 

*Good* digital pianos *while using headphones* give the player the sound that the listener generally hears from a good acoustic.

 

I have always, myself, been frustrated by the sound of grand pianos as a player. They sound great played by someone else, but when I'm playing, the sound doesn't go to me. It goes elsewhere. You can somewhat get around this problem by playing in a small room with no carpet, but it's still not the same. I think this is why I've been pleased with our digital piano. (Maybe some people get used to the idea of the grand throwing its sound someplace else, but I've never been able to get over it)

 

That said, though, I don't particularly like the sound of the digital through its speakers. And you have to get headphones that work with the piano to get a good sound. I've tried out various headphones. Even pricey ones aren't necessarily the best choice. (And they also have to be lightweight or you won't want to play the piano with those weights on your head -- and you'll probably need a slight extension on the cord. I had to get a 2 foot extension to be able to actually reach the high notes)

 

There are also all kinds of variations in the touch of pianos -- even digitals. We tried one that had a "grand piano" touch. It was awful. Although, I'll admit, it was an awful lot like a grand piano. But my hands aren't that strong. I prefer something with a lighter touch.

 

That's why us giving you advice on digital vs acoustic is really silly. We're not there to try the two pianos. Even if we were, we wouldn't know what felt/sounded best to you.

 

However, if both were decent (and I'm not saying they are -- I couldn't possibly know!) I'd go with the cheapest option if you're just starting out. Chances are, you'll want to upgrade from either one of them. I rather doubt the acoustic is so great that your budding pianist will not get frustrated with it in the future. If it were that nice, someone probably would have already taken that piano off those people's hands.

 

Can you tell I've played a lot of unplayable acoustics? Also, even the piano is visually appealing, that means NOTHING. For the record, the piano I learned on was a piece of junk. But it's gorgeous. And my sister has taken it into her home and treats it quite lovingly. Had it "fixed up". And tells me it's a wonderful piano with a lovely tone. Seriously? I've played a piano that sat out in an open boathouse through a Michigan winter that sounded better than that piano. But my sister (who can't play all that well either, although she pretends) still thinks she got the deal of the century moving that thing 600 miles from my parents' house. She could have saved money and gotten a better piano if she'd gotten an unweighted 66 key keyboard with no pedal.

 

So, no, I wouldn't choose an acoustic over a digital without trying them first. And no, most really old pianos can't actually be fixed up to playability without spending so much money that you should just go out and get a really top line new acoustic. For a kid to bang on and take a few years of lessons? Sure, probably doesn't matter which you go with (so I'd get the cheapest).

[flyingiguana]

Also, I wouldn't move the piano myself. It's not that safe if you don't have the right tools. Any steps or just getting the piano up into a truck is going to be a challenge -- in which someone will have to be at risk of being under the piano, or on a side that WILL be under the piano if things go wrong.

 

We did move a piano on our own once. To this day, I shudder at the disaster that almost happened.

 

There's a reason pianos falling on people in cartoons is "funny".

[Plateau Mama]

A good friend of ours is a professional piano player. He says to get the digital because they can use headphones, control the volume etc, but the most important reason he says, is that being able to change the instrument/sound on the piano will hold their interest more. Sometimes they are willing to practice in a funny sound and, really, when they are starting you just want them to be in front of the piano practicing. If they get serious, then you can buy an acoustic piano. Their piano teacher said the same things.

 

I've had my digital for 7-8 years. My older two played for 6 years. My oldest still messes around on it a bit. My youngest is getting ready for lessons. I paid $1000 and it has been the most used item I have purchased for my kids.

[gardenmom5]

One more thought -- acoustic pianos are made to be heard by an audience. In other words, the *player* is not really the intended listener.

 

*Good* digital pianos *while using headphones* give the player the sound that the listener generally hears from a good acoustic.

 

I have always, myself, been frustrated by the sound of grand pianos as a player. They sound great played by someone else, but when I'm playing, the sound doesn't go to me. It goes elsewhere. You can somewhat get around this problem by playing in a small room with no carpet, but it's still not the same. I think this is why I've been pleased with our digital piano. (Maybe some people get used to the idea of the grand throwing its sound someplace else, but I've never been able to get over it)

and to add to this - absolutely under no circumstances get an acoustic console.  those things sound horrible even when they're new.   I'd rather have a cheaper digital - at least no one is under any assumptions it's supposed to sound good.

[Forget-Me-Not]

We have a Yamaha digital. I learned on an acoustic. I see no difference that would concern me. My kids go back and forth between our digital and the acoustics at lessons and grandmas houses and church just fine. For this season of my life, the no-tuning/freedom

in placement/volume control is wonderful to me :)

[Samiam]

Thanks for all the feedback...lots of good points to consider!  After reading it all and discussing again with DH, we think we will go with digital.   The pro's just outweigh the cons in this case (and the ability to use a headset, a definite PRO we forgot to add to the list...since DH works night shift, sleeping during the day, when practicing would be happening).  I've looked at the links as well, lots of good info there!  thxs!!  Hive to the rescue as always!