s/o of Indiana and Common Core thread - CC authors' response to the dad letter

[wapiti]

Thought some of you might be interested:  http://hechingerreport.org/content/common-core-math-problem-hard-supporters-common-core-respond-problematic-math-quiz-went-viral_15361/

 

Their response? Don’t blame Common Core. Blame a poorly written curriculum.

“That question would not be in a textbook if I wrote it,” Zimba said.

But mashing together the different standards for place value and the number line is potentially confusing. “The number line is not an appropriate model for place value,” Zimba said.

The writing component is also problematic. “The standards don’t require essay writing in mathematics,” Zimba said.

although as the article notes:

In general, being able to explain how you arrived at an answer – not just memorizing a formula – is also one of the standards’ key goals for students.

How should programs handle this part - occasional oral answers would work for me, but do they work in a classroom?

 

“Like it or not, the standards allow a lot of freedom. People think the Common Core is a curriculum, and it’s not. The curriculum authors are going to interpret the standards in different ways,” Zimba said.

“There will be a lot of variety, and it doesn’t make sense to me to pick one thing and say that’s the Common Core,” he added. “Particularly something that doesn’t get at the mathematics that’s being emphasized in the Common Core.

 

I don't know how the large publishers write textbooks, but it seems as though something was lost in translation, so to speak, in this case.  I wonder which publisher/program this was.  (My gut would say that the problem is a combination of textbook writers who don't know what they're doing teaching math and standards that are written in a language that is vague and apparently difficult to interpret)

[nature girl]

This is what I don't understand...The concepts being taught in each grade haven't changed drastically, so why were completely new textbooks written (which in this and many other cases try to encapsulate multiple requirements in one problem), rather than using existing textbooks that are just tweaked to fit in CC? Who read this textbook and decided it was worth using? Who read this problem and decided it was a good idea to assign it to her class? The issue seems to be on so many levels, and it boils down IMO to general confusion on everyone's part, all of them trying to reinvent the wheel without really understanding how a wheel works.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I was thinking about this when I read the original post - so many textbooks are written so horribly! before cc, even . . . . and I'm sure that hasn't changed.  My favorite love-to-hate curriculum is Houghton Mifflin's CA Math.  I can remember writing letters to my kid's teachers about their homework a lot - often we were like  :confused1: when we looked at the word problems.  Either they were so ambiguously worded you couldn't tell what you were supposed to do, or they were totally inappropriate problems for the kids' level.  Things that would be straightforward if you had the right tools - multiplication or division, for example - but were completely impossible to explain to a 6 or 7 year old using the mathematical concepts that they understood. 

 

What I learned from the teacher's responses was that they didn't get it either, they didn't like it, but they had to assign it.  They were just impressed that we bothered to try to help the kids with it, and told us to relax and not worry about it.  Ahh, the beginning of my path to homeschooling . . . . 

[Snickerdoodle]

nm

[fraidycat]

I was thinking about this when I read the original post - so many textbooks are written so horribly! before cc, even . . . . and I'm sure that hasn't changed. My favorite love-to-hate curriculum is Houghton Mifflin's CA Math. I can remember writing letters to my kid's teachers about their homework a lot - often we were like :confused1: when we looked at the word problems. Either they were so ambiguously worded you couldn't tell what you were supposed to do, or they were totally inappropriate problems for the kids' level. Things that would be straightforward if you had the right tools - multiplication or division, for example - but were completely impossible to explain to a 6 or 7 year old using the mathematical concepts that they understood.

What I learned from the teacher's responses was that they didn't get it either, they didn't like it, but they had to assign it. They were just impressed that we bothered to try to help the kids with it, and told us to relax and not worry about it. Ahh, the beginning of my path to homeschooling . . . .

This. When my DD was in school, I can't temember the name of the textbook now, but it was "Chicago math" that they were using.

I didn't write letters. I flat out told the teachers to their face that "as a family we don't DO after school homework. They had her all day, she gets to be a kid all evening." This all came about when she started bringing home math homework that neither DH nor I could make sense of in first grade.

Her teachers were supportive because they didn't really believe in homework for younger grades earlier, either. They were just doing what they were told to do by administration. And thus began my journey toward homeschooling. :)

[redsquirrel]

This is what I don't understand...The concepts being taught in each grade haven't changed drastically, so why were completely new textbooks written (which in this and many other cases try to encapsulate multiple requirements in one problem), rather than using existing textbooks that are just tweaked to fit in CC? Who read this textbook and decided it was worth using? Who read this problem and decided it was a good idea to assign it to her class? The issue seems to be on so many levels, and it boils down IMO to general confusion on everyone's part, all of them trying to reinvent the wheel without really understanding how a wheel works.

 

That part is easy, money. Textbook publishers are constantly updating and issuing new editions for one reason, to get schools to buy new books. And it isn't just school textbooks, you should hear my son's piano teacher go off on the music book publishers and their constant flow of new editions. Sometimes all that has changed between one edition and the next is the page numbers. Really. This is a long standing tradition in the publishing industry. Books last a long time and can be passed from owner to owner, but issue an updated edition and you create the fear that buying a used book will leave you 'behind.' How many self proclaimed 'curriculum junkies' on this board admit to buying a new edition of a book 'just in case'? Lots of them.

 

People here have compared CC text to 'pre-CC' on a few items and have said the only difference is the sticker on the front reading "Common Core Aligned" and a copyright date.

 

Some school districts did use the CC change as an opportunity to change programs. My local school district used the change to CC as an opportunity to change from "everyday math' to Singapore standards. Both are CC aligned, but the district had been very unhappy with Everyday Math and money was available to help districts get new books etc so they undertook the massive job of training teachers, rolling out a new program, etc. I am sure that some families are blaming the 'new math' on CC, but if you paid attention to what the district told us you would know CC isn't what is causing the change.

[MinivanMom]

I don't think this father is an idiot who doesn't understand the difference between the Common Core standards versus a homework assignment chosen by the teacher. I also don't think it's helpful to continually point out that the Common Core Standards are not a curriculum. The issue is that in many states and districts parents are being told by teachers that Common Core has replaced the curriculum. Parents and teachers are being told by administrators that Common Core dictates these math approaches. So it doesn't matter if Common Core is to blame in a legal sense, because in a practical sense it is true for parents in that locality.

 

Our state has adopted Common Core and our district is implementing Common Core without any math curriculum. There are no textbooks. There is no scope & sequence. I know someone with a rising kindergartner who has been touring schools all over our district (we have magnets and school choice). At every single school she has been told that our district doesn't use math curriculum; they "teach Common Core." She hasn't been able to get a straight answer about what it is they're using to "teach Common Core." When my friends complain about specific homework assignments or approaches, they are told by teachers and principals that this is how it has to be taught, because our state adopted Common Core. Our new superintendent of schools has been traveling around the county having Q & A sessions with parents. He was questioned by angry parents about alternative algorithms for division being taught and required for 4th and 5th graders. His response (echoed by the school board members in attendance) was that they didn't have any control over that, because the state has adopted Common Core.

 

People in my local area are livid about Common Core math. I know multiple families who have already pulled their kids out of school. I know more who are pulling their kids out at the end of the school year. Is it helpful to them to point out that Common Core is not a curriculum? Is it helpful to them to point out that our district is using Common Core as an excuse to implement math changes without parental input? This is why people are reacting strongly. This is what's happening in many areas. It's no wonder parents feel like their only option is to fight the Common Core standards themselves. I'm not sure how to explain what these districts are doing or why, but it makes me feel a little less crazy to hear that my district isn't the only one acting this way.

[stripe]

I am not convinced that parental confusion over children's math is a bad thing, given the apparent mathematical ineptitude of many members of the adult population.

http://www.acer.edu.au/ozpisa/mathematical-literacy-in-pisa-2006

 

And I don't understand why a parent is doing his child's homework.

 

I hate these clips of parents insisting that the way their kids are doing math is nonsense (such as the one of the girl drawing in hundred squares and so forth) and they should just punch in an algorithm. I think this utterly misses the point. And makes another, more disturbing point.

[nature girl]

The issue I've heard echoed again and again is that CC math standards actually are nonsense (like the example posted in the other thread), and that they're too broad and therefore necessarily too shallow. Also that they require skills students aren't yet ready for (even though the concepts being taught are in general appropriate for each grade.) Is that the fault of CC, or of the new textbooks? Why wouldn't they do what redsquirrel's district is doing and just use a "compliant," proven, excellent program like Singapore? Again, why reinvent the wheel?

 

Stripe, I don't think parents are doing their children's homework, but they do try to help them understand it so that they can do it themselves. When the problems being assigned are convoluted, poorly written and obviously well above what children should be expected to do at their grade level, of course they're going to complain.

[stripe]

Stripe, I don't think parents are doing their children's homework, 

It appeared to me that the homework shown in the website was for the child to write a letter from Jack explaining what he did wrong. The page shown was signed "Frustrated Parent." So in this case, the parent was doing his child's homework, or at least filling in his complaints on the child's homework sheet.

[mom2scouts]

I live in a University community where most of the people I know are highly educated.  Many of them are totally confused by the elementary level math being taught to their children. One mom told me that her first grade dd cried over her math homework every night, so the mother asked for a copy of the textbook (students don't have their own copy).  The school told her she could rent a copy for $20 and the mom was so frustrated that she agreed. Both she and her husband read through the textbook and were more confused than ever.  When parents complain about the curriculum they are being told that it's CC required and the school district doesn't have a choice.

 

I won't even go into the stories I've heard from teachers about the endless training in CC and how it's being implemented in their schools.

[redsquirrel]

Parents not understanding their kids' math isn't anything new. I remember parents saying the same thing when I was a kid. I am pretty sure I heard that complained about on stuff like The Cosby Show

 

My SIL is constantly screaming over CC but doesn't remember (Like I do) that before CC she was complaining about her kid's math.

[Paige]

I know people complaining about the "new math" being forced on them because of Common Core whose kids use Singapore and others who are in schools using Everyday Math! I don't think Common Core is the main problem here. It has become a scapegoat in many ways for all the frustrations people have with their schools. It is probably difficult for administrators to figure out how to implement changes and even to understand what needs to be changed. In the midst of this confusion, publishers are the ones who profit by promising to solve all the problems with their new expensive common core approved materials- which are probably no better (or worse) than last year's.

[a27mom]

Parents not understanding their kids' math isn't anything new. I remember parents saying the same thing when I was a kid. I am pretty sure I heard that complained about on stuff like The Cosby Show

My SIL is constantly screaming over CC but doesn't remember (Like I do) that before CC she was complaining about her kid's math.

I remember that scene from the Cosby Show ;)

It is true that common core is not actual curriculum. But I think a lot of these over complicated show work math problem scenarios are becoming more common because of the common core. the standards do somewhat read that way. It said something like they are supposed to demonstrate understanding that 3 digit addition and subtraction involves adding/subtracting 100's, 10's, and 1's. Now because I teach my daughter and work with her, I know that she understands this. But due to common core, schools need kids to demonstrate this on a standardized test. So a lot of schools seem to have translated that standard to the kids must do math through these "complicated" methods so they do it that way on the tests.

I see a lot of the "show your work" methods as really teaching tools to explain the algorithm, unfortunately in order to "show" that the kids learned the concept, the teaching examples are just becoming new "algorithms". And a lot of kids still don't get it, or are more confused.

[Ali in OR]

Just a little insight into American textbooks...

 

I'm a former high school math teacher and maybe 15-20 years ago I tried a little side job of writing problems for a math textbook company. I was given a list of requirements for my problems. The two I remember most were that I could not write problems that depicted women in "traditional" careers like nursing or teaching and I could not use titles like Mr. and Mrs. These books are written by committees (and I wonder how many committee members have a math background), and clearly they have agendas that have nothing to do with teaching mathematics in the best way possible.

 

As a contrast, our Singapore Discovering Mathematics is written by one person (plus an editor and a consultant). Singapore has always had fantastic word problems--multi-step, real life situations, real science. It's driven by the math, not by any other agenda.

[Ali in OR]

Oh, and "showing your work" or "explaining your thinking":

 

This actually is important when you use mathematics as part of your job (engineering calculations, budget presentations, etc). We've been working on this a lot in the middle school years. In our home school, that means showing important steps in your calculations, even if you can just do it in your head (and just doing it in your head is usually where errors turn up). Other mathematically literate people can trace your thinking by the steps that you show. I don't think it is necessary to write an essay on the challenges of place value in addition and subtraction in scientific notation, for example. Just show the steps you took in adding 7.3 x 10⁴ + 2.4 x 10³ (to use an example from our recent work).

[Chrysalis Academy]

The most striking thing about the H-M CA Math word problems was the fact that every single problem had "ethnic" names.  I could just see the committee meeting - "No, let's change this problem.  Instead of Jack and Mary it needs to be Shakira and Kamal.  Ok, perfect!"   

 

Not dissing the use of non-white-bread names . . . just sayin' that if half as much energy went into making sure the problems made sense, then maybe we'd be getting somewhere.

[Elisabet1]

Before the Common Core, our public schools (in a state that never adopted the Common Core anyway) had wonky and stupid ways to teach things. For example, cutesy art projects for high school preAP math classes, and papers about feelings and such in math worksheets in grade school. 

[nansk]

Oh, and "showing your work" or "explaining your thinking":

 

This actually is important when you use mathematics as part of your job (engineering calculations, budget presentations, etc.... In our home school, that means showing important steps in your calculations, ... Just show the steps you took in adding 7.3 x 10⁴ + 2.4 x 10³ (to use an example from our recent work).

 

I agree.

 

But due to common core, schools need kids to demonstrate this on a standardized test.

 

So why would "showing the steps" be a problem in a standardized test? Does "standardized test" mean a multiple-choice bubble test? Just wondering.

 

In Singapore primary schools, Maths papers have 3 sections. Section A is easier 1-step problems with multiple-choice answers, worth 1-mark each. You don't have to show your work there. Sections B and C are multiple-step problems, worth 2- or 4-marks each, where you have to show the model/steps/working.

[Elisabet1]

The most striking thing about the H-M CA Math word problems was the fact that every single problem had "ethnic" names.  I could just see the committee meeting - "No, let's change this problem.  Instead of Jack and Mary it needs to be Shakira and Kamal.  Ok, perfect!"   

 

Not dissing the use of non-white-bread names . . . just sayin' that if half as much energy went into making sure the problems made sense, then maybe we'd be getting somewhere.

 

 

The two problems on one worksheet I saw, that came home with my own child, the first had John and Mary, and the second had DeShawn and Rosa. I wondered which ethnic group the DeShawn and Rosa came from (they were listed as siblings). And why are there never names from any other ethnic groups? It is either bland English...John, Mary type stuff...or very ethnic Black and Hispanic...names where I do not know a single black or Hispanic person with. And where are the Asian names Irish names? Scandinavian? Russian? 

[Arcadia]

So why would "showing the steps" be a problem in a standardized test? Does "standardized test" mean a multiple-choice bubble test? Just wondering.

In Singapore primary schools, Maths papers have 3 sections. Section A is easier 1-step problems with multiple-choice answers, worth 1-mark each. You don't have to show your work there. Sections B and C are multiple-step problems, worth 2- or 4-marks each, where you have to show the model/steps/working.

Standardized tests are mainly multiple choice because its cheaper to mark.

Here they don't have the exam marking days that Singapore teachers have where in my days means bringing scrabble and monopoly to class to play while teachers marked the exam scripts :lol: They don't have the PSLE marking days here either. So other people are paid to mark the standardized tests. Most times, machines mark the multiple choice answers.

[WishboneDawn]

I live in a University community where most of the people I know are highly educated. Many of them are totally confused by the elementary level math being taught to their children. One mom told me that her first grade dd cried over her math homework every night, so the mother asked for a copy of the textbook (students don't have their own copy). The school told her she could rent a copy for $20 and the mom was so frustrated that she agreed. Both she and her husband read through the textbook and were more confused than ever. When parents complain about the curriculum they are being told that it's CC required and the school district doesn't have a choice.

I won't even go into the stories I've heard from teachers about the endless training in CC and how it's being implemented in their schools.

This has been going on for years. I've been hearing similar stories, generally involving texts like Everyday Math, for the last ten years (since I started to pay attention to education in the US).

From what I gather CC doesn't mean poorly written texts. It's simply means new editions of pure-existing poorly written texts.

[MinivanMom]

Before the Common Core, our public schools (in a state that never adopted the Common Core anyway) had wonky and stupid ways to teach things. For example, cutesy art projects for high school preAP math classes, and papers about feelings and such in math worksheets in grade school. 

 

True, but before Common Core parents could complain to the teacher about the cutesy math art projects. They could complain to the principal about the math essays. They could petition the school board to adopt a better math curriculum. Now parents are being shut-down and shut-out, because the teacher (or principal, superintendent, school board, etc.) claims they have no control over what Common Core requires.

 

This is the real source of the frustration. As homeschoolers, we see a particular example of a Common Core math problem or homework assignment posted on-line and we want to discuss the validity of the approach from a pedagogical perspective, but the approach to math isn't what parents are really frustrated with. What they are really upset about is being so fully pushed out of the process of educating their child. No one asked for their input when deciding on these math changes. Nobody has explained the changes to them. No one will talk to them when they have legitimate feedback about specific assignments. There's no textbook, no syllabus, no scope & sequence . . . no one can explain what their child is being taught or what they will be taught next. These are involved, educated parents with STEM degrees, and they're being told (even by elementary teachers) that they shouldn't even help their child with his homework. What parent wouldn't feel pushed-out and condescended to in that situation?

[WishboneDawn]

Oh, and "showing your work" or "explaining your thinking":

This actually is important when you use mathematics as part of your job (engineering calculations, budget presentations, etc). We've been working on this a lot in the middle school years. In our home school, that means showing important steps in your calculations, even if you can just do it in your head (and just doing it in your head is usually where errors turn up). Other mathematically literate people can trace your thinking by the steps that you show. I don't think it is necessary to write an essay on the challenges of place value in addition and subtraction in scientific notation, for example. Just show the steps you took in adding 7.3 x 10⁴ + 2.4 x 10³ (to use an example from our recent work).

Thinking back to Liping Ma, I wonder if the problem with the explaining work but has Moore to do with teachers who don't have a firm conceptual understanding themselves.

[WishboneDawn]

The two problems on one worksheet I saw, that came home with my own child, the first had John and Mary, and the second had DeShawn and Rosa. I wondered which ethnic group the DeShawn and Rosa came from (they were listed as siblings). And why are there never names from any other ethnic groups? It is either bland English...John, Mary type stuff...or very ethnic Black and Hispanic...names where I do not know a single black or Hispanic person with. And where are the Asian names Irish names? Scandinavian? Russian?

Who are they selling to? Are they targeting districts where those names are more popular? It might be less about diversity or being PC and more about marketing.

[WishboneDawn]

The two problems on one worksheet I saw, that came home with my own child, the first had John and Mary, and the second had DeShawn and Rosa. I wondered which ethnic group the DeShawn and Rosa came from (they were listed as siblings). And why are there never names from any other ethnic groups? It is either bland English...John, Mary type stuff...or very ethnic Black and Hispanic...names where I do not know a single black or Hispanic person with. And where are the Asian names Irish names? Scandinavian? Russian?

Who are they selling to? Are they targeting districts where those names are more popular? It might be less about diversity or being PC and more about marketing.

[VinNY]

True, but before Common Core parents could complain to the teacher about the cutesy math art projects. They could complain to the principal about the math essays. They could petition the school board to adopt a better math curriculum. Now parents are being shut-down and shut-out, because the teacher (or principal, superintendent, school board, etc.) claims they have no control over what Common Core requires.

 

This is the real source of the frustration. As homeschoolers, we see a particular example of a Common Core math problem or homework assignment posted on-line and we want to discuss the validity of the approach from a pedagogical perspective, but the approach to math isn't what parents are really frustrated with. What they are really upset about is being so fully pushed out of the process of educating their child. No one asked for their input when deciding on these math changes. Nobody has explained the changes to them. No one will talk to them when they have legitimate feedback about specific assignments. There's no textbook, no syllabus, no scope & sequence . . . no one can explain what their child is being taught or what they will be taught next. These are involved, educated parents with STEM degrees, and they're being told (even by elementary teachers) that they shouldn't even help their child with his homework. What parent wouldn't feel pushed-out and condescended to in that situation?

 

Was just at a CC forum at our local public school. This is exactly the problem our local parents are facing. 

[redsquirrel]

I agree.

 

 

 

 

So why would "showing the steps" be a problem in a standardized test? Does "standardized test" mean a multiple-choice bubble test? Just wondering.

 

In Singapore primary schools, Maths papers have 3 sections. Section A is easier 1-step problems with multiple-choice answers, worth 1-mark each. You don't have to show your work there. Sections B and C are multiple-step problems, worth 2- or 4-marks each, where you have to show the model/steps/working.

 

It is possible. I live in NY and for several generations now they have had statewide exams. The math tests (Algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and calc) all have  'show your work sections and have for a long time. There is scratch paper handed out, test answer paper handed out, there are rules about what you must show etc. It might be the same for the science tests, but I can't remember right now. I do think the science exams are not all multiple choice. The LA and History tests are all 50% written, both short and long answer.

 

It's not that big a deal.
 

[redsquirrel]

True, but before Common Core parents could complain to the teacher about the cutesy math art projects. They could complain to the principal about the math essays. They could petition the school board to adopt a better math curriculum. Now parents are being shut-down and shut-out, because the teacher (or principal, superintendent, school board, etc.) claims they have no control over what Common Core requires.

 

This is the real source of the frustration. As homeschoolers, we see a particular example of a Common Core math problem or homework assignment posted on-line and we want to discuss the validity of the approach from a pedagogical perspective, but the approach to math isn't what parents are really frustrated with. What they are really upset about is being so fully pushed out of the process of educating their child. No one asked for their input when deciding on these math changes. Nobody has explained the changes to them. No one will talk to them when they have legitimate feedback about specific assignments. There's no textbook, no syllabus, no scope & sequence . . . no one can explain what their child is being taught or what they will be taught next. These are involved, educated parents with STEM degrees, and they're being told (even by elementary teachers) that they shouldn't even help their child with his homework. What parent wouldn't feel pushed-out and condescended to in that situation?

 

I happen to have many friends who are public school teachers. They feel the EXACT same way for the same reasons. And they are also tired of being yelled at (literally yelled at) by people they agree with.

[redsquirrel]

If you live in NY and are getting the line of 'it's online' then they are prob talking about Engage NY

 

http://www.engageny.org/

 

My SIL keeps yelling (actually yelling, not figuratively) about the 'its online' thing and I keep telling her to go to Engage NY and she can find everything she wants. I found it because I needed info about the NY algebra regents. I don't know why it is so hard for her.  I think the teacher's are keeping mum about the names of the actual websites because the answers are on there as well. But I think any smart 7th grader with google could find it pronto. It took me one search and I found the entire curriculum of math and LA K-12

 

 

[MinivanMom]

I happen to have many friends who are public school teachers. They feel the EXACT same way for the same reasons. And they are also tired of being yelled at (literally yelled at) by people they agree with.

 

Yes, there are definitely many teachers who feel the same way. I have a friend who finally got fed up about two years ago. She resigned and pulled her boys out to homeschool. Nobody blames her; our district dictates what is taught with district issued curriculum guides. Every child learns the same thing on the same day in every subject. Teachers have no freedom here.

 

 . . . but . . .

 

Knowing that teachers also have their hands tied doesn't make the situation any less frustrating for parents. If anything, it only reinforces the idea among many parents that the only way to fix things is to get rid of Common Core itself.
 

[MinivanMom]

If you live in NY and are getting the line of 'it's online' then they are prob talking about Engage NY

 

http://www.engageny.org/

 

My SIL keeps yelling (actually yelling, not figuratively) about the 'its online' thing and I keep telling her to go to Engage NY and she can find everything she wants. I found it because I needed info about the NY algebra regents. I don't know why it is so hard for her.  I think the teacher's are keeping mum about the names of the actual websites because the answers are on there as well. But I think any smart 7th grader with google could find it pronto. It took me one search and I found the entire curriculum of math and LA K-12

 

Our district's lesson plans are not online, and I don't know any parents who have been able to access them. Teachers and principals refer parents who ask too many questions to the Common Core website with the tired line, "We don't have a curriculum; we teach Common Core." There must be a way to access the curriculum guides since sunshine laws require it, but as a homeschooler it's not worth my time to figure out how. If I had kids attending public school, you better believe I'd be camped out at the district office asking for copies of the 5th grade math curriculum guide with a smile on my face and checkbook in hand (for whatever ridiculous copying fee they charged me).

 

I don't know if the district should be glad that parents like me homeschool or if we as a society should be sad that many of the most passionate parents have jumped ship.

[redsquirrel]

FWIW, I google's "florida common core curriculum" and I got a bunch of very promising hits, some by the state board, some by private organizations and some schools have their information online. I think there is a lot of information out there for interested parents, and some schools are more forthcoming than others. Now, should parents have to deal with that? I say no. If principals etc are answering with 'we don't use a curriculum, we use common core, then someone needs to ask them to define their terms.

[VinNY]

dp

 

[VinNY]

I have one dtr in PS in NY. I go on EngageNY modules all the time to help my dtr and myself. Still our school are using multiple resources, Envision Math and other worksheets. I also asked for a scope and sequence and never received anything. The principal said the teachers are no longer comfortable about sharing things collaboratively or with the parents. They don't know what will end up on facebook:) I don't know, it is very frustrating. Our district is carefully treading into the modules. They chose one ELA module for 6th grade to use for a Social Studies component. It is Lightning Thief (Percy Jackson) and is supposed to expose them to Greek Myths. We started this book and 206 page module in November. They are still on chapter 8. You need to check out these modules. Meanwhile they have no time to study Egyptian history and I don't know when they are getting to Medieval times (in the past they studied that too in 6th grade).

[VinNY]

It seems the teachers are teaching themselves the modules as they go. So it is a bit of winging it, they pull from old resources to fill in or substitute with something else from an online source. There are no texts. 

[redsquirrel]

It seems the teachers are teaching themselves the modules as they go. So it is a bit of winging it, they pull from old resources to fill in or substitute with something else from an online source. There are no texts. 

 

It depends on the district. In my district they made the switch to SM a couple years ago. SM is CC aligned so there is no mystery at the elementary level. The kids have their books and they have a nice website with lots of printables and videos and handouts.

 

At the middle school level I believe they are using the Engage NY stuff, but they have been very up front with the parents. I know only because I have friends with kids in the class. The only ones who care and ask about things like "scope and sequence' are the former homeschoolers, btw. I find that amusing.

[VinNY]

It depends on the district. In my district they made the switch to SM a couple years ago. SM is CC aligned so there is no mystery at the elementary level. The kids have their books and they have a nice website with lots of printables and videos and handouts.

 

At the middle school level I believe they are using the Engage NY stuff, but they have been very up front with the parents. I know only because I have friends with kids in the class. The only ones who care and ask about things like "scope and sequence' are the former homeschoolers, btw. I find that amusing.

 

Your district was wise. What my district was thinking I don't know. They knew about these standards for awhile. This is the first they heard of this type of teaching math. I mentioned Singapore Math to my principal.

[MinivanMom]

It seems the teachers are teaching themselves the modules as they go. So it is a bit of winging it, they pull from old resources to fill in or substitute with something else from an online source. There are no texts. 

 

This is what's going on in our district. It seems that the district is providing the day-to-day curriculum guide as they go along, so I think the teachers really don't know what's coming next. We are having a rough transition.

 

Our state has also switched to integrated math at the high school level (Math I, Math II, Math III to replace Alg, Geo, Alg II), so that is a simultaneous transition happening here. There are no textbooks or standards for this switch since they are trying to implement it as a part of Common Core, and the Common Core standards do not yet provide guidance on how to integrate. The CC website says that, "an integrated course sequence (Mathematics 1, Mathematics 2, Mathematics 3) will be made available shortly after the release of the final Common Core standards." I guess that leaves our state in limbo since we made the switch ahead of the standards. There are the topic specific standards on the CC website, but nobody seems to know which ones are being taught in which course. The kids and parents are describing a situation where there are no textbooks, no syllabus, no scope & sequence, and no websites to consult. Kids just bring assignments home and the topics are all over the place.

 

I know these things can't be blamed on Common Core. When people complain to me, I tell them that the things they're complaining about aren't in the Common Core standards. I refer them to the CC website to read the standards for themselves, but why would they believe me over what the teacher (or principal, superintendent, school, district) is telling them? I feel a lot of sympathy for their frustrations.

[MinivanMom]

Regardless of what states put online and who has access to that online information, surely someone (the principal?  guidance counselor?) has a paper syllabus or can e-mail a link to a simple scope and sequence for say "3rd grade math at Smith School" so that parents can easily see without searching and sorting though tons of documents what exactly their child is expected to learn in say, 3rd grade.  To do otherwise gives the impression that the school is "winging it" when it comes to math instruction, doesn't want parents involved, or simply is trying to hide what they are teaching.  I don't think this really has much to do with Common Core because we live in a state that has not adopted Common Core; it's more about institutional exclusion of parents from the education process.

 

Yes, this is the real problem. This is what parents are really upset about. I think the rough transition to Common Core and the lack of communication throughout the process has brought this "institutional exclusion of parents" into focus for many of the local parents I know. It was always there, but now they're seeing it clearly for the first time.

[a27mom]

It is possible. I live in NY and for several generations now they have had statewide exams. The math tests (Algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and calc) all have  'show your work sections and have for a long time. There is scratch paper handed out, test answer paper handed out, there are rules about what you must show etc. It might be the same for the science tests, but I can't remember right now. I do think the science exams are not all multiple choice. The LA and History tests are all 50% written, both short and long answer.
 
It's not that big a deal.

When I speak about the issue with show your work problems I am not referring to upper level math. Certainly one needs to show work in algebra and above. But do you really need to "show work" for 90/15? Kids are being required to "show work" in arithmetic. Which means drawing picture diagrams to answer problems. Kids are marked wrong if they get the right answer, but don't draw the picture the "right way". This is supposedly so kids demonstrate the concept not just the algorithm. But instead it just turns the picture into the algorithm.

Now I do not think that the common core intended for this to be a result. But it is in many places, because of the reaction of school districts to the common core testing.

Just wanted to clarify :)