High lead level?

[MedicMom]

I recently had my 3 year old evaluated for some unusual behaviors(possible SPD). They did routine bloodwork and his lead level is four times normal. Can anyone tell me anything about this? We live in an ancient house but had the lead paint removed and repainted before he was born; upstairs the walls are new so everything is new paint.

I am completely freaking out, mostly because the public health nurse was really kind of rude and upset on the phone. My husband was a contractor for years and says there is nothing more he can do about the dust from remodeling, and that all the lead paint has been gone for four years.

But the public health nurse has me pretty freaked out and they are insisting that they can come into my home and do envinronmental inspections, nutritional counseling, developmental evaluations and all sorts of other things. Can anyone tell me anything?

[Spryte]

:grouphug:

 

My DS had high lead levels.  We don't live in an ancient house, and could find no source of lead.  Not toys (we are the crunchy unpainted wooden toy types), not the house, not the yard... Just nothing environmentally.  Our doc narrowed it down to exposure in utero, and as my DS was adopted, this makes sense.  He had high levels of other heavy metals, too, so you might get those tested as well.  (Also, VOCs, and a few other environmental issues, to really add to the pile.)  All this made sense, given DS's birthmother's profession (commercial painter at the time, while in university), once we put it all together.  

 

I think it sounds like you've done a good job getting rid of lead, but maybe do some extra testing around the house, etc.  Any chance you were pregnant while dealing with the lead paint?  That could explain it.  

 

Are you the same poster that had kids get into some kind of contractor's chalk dust or something a while back?  Did I read your funny blog post about that?  Any chance that contained trace amounts of lead or other heavy metals?

 

For us, once we figured out the source, we worked on detox.  Lots of it.  We did chelation, we did a ton of supplements, we did IV stuff.  We still work on it, but it's much, much better now.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.  '

 

 

ETA: what about lead in the soil around the house?  where kiddo plays?  or at a playground?

[mamaraby]

What was his level in numbers? What state do you live in? This info sheet from New York State is pretty comprehensive (https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/2526.pdf), but there should be a sheet online specific to your state.

 

Yes, depending on levels they may come into your home with an eye toward remediation. High lead levels do cause developmental delays so getting levels down is important. Do you have well or city water? Lead can come from well water, but it can also come from pipes. Nutritionally, they talk about focusing on foods high in iron, vitamin c, and calcium can help.

[MedicMom]

His level was 17.

He did get into the chalk dust a year ago, but I doubt that contained lead and his sister's level isn't high, though she hasn't been tested in a while.

We drink bottled water because the tap water is nasty.

 

We are remodeling the upstairs hallway, but there is nothing I can do about that until it's done.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Joannqn  had a high lead situation that she posted about a couple of years ago.  They did come out and gave recommendations.  Lead can be in the soil as well as in paint.  

[joannqn]

I would see if you can get an inspector out there to find the lead source in your home.  They have a tool that can detect lead in paint, and they shoot literally every wall inside and outside.  

Some places to look for lead:

 

Windows
Doors
Door frames
Door thresholds
Porch
Dirt outside
In your water (old pipes often have lead)
In your dishes

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  We left our home to foreclosure because of elevated lead levels in your youngest. (It was one of the main reasons but not the only reason.)  

ETA: Just saw your DD's lead levels.  Yes, that is high.  They'll probably be recommending chelation therapy.  Please do some of your own research on how to support your daughter's body during that.  Chelation therapy can be hard on the body, particularly the bones.

[Spryte]

Joannqn's post reminded me that we also replaced all of our antique Fiestaware, and 50s pottery. Plus, our antique white-painted bed.

 

It was a lot of work, and a high learning curve.

[Arcadia]

The soil in the area where we stayed when my younger son was born has relatively high lead levels. We had him tested as part of other bloodwork and the lead level results were ok.  The pediatrician office had a list of areas where lead is higher and insurance would cover the full cost for the bloodwork without questions. 

I agree with Joannqn that a house lead inspection would be the easiest way to go.  We bought a home test kit from Lowes which is easy to use for spot testing but not economical for the entire house.

[LMV]

His level was 17.

He did get into the chalk dust a year ago, but I doubt that contained lead and his sister's level isn't high, though she hasn't been tested in a while.

We drink bottled water because the tap water is nasty.

 

We are remodeling the upstairs hallway, but there is nothing I can do about that until it's done.

-I am presuming this lead level came from a venous stick.  If it didn't, then getting a venipuncture to confirm should be your first step.

-Has your son had a CBC, iron and zinc levels drawn recently?  Although not completely validated in the literature (partly because I'm sure not going to sign my kid up for a study that randomly assigns her to an adequate iron or inadequate iron group and then intentionally exposes her to lead and I doubt any other loving parent would either) we believe that lead absorption is increased in children who are iron deficient (and also in kids who are calcium deficient). We also usually check Vitamin D levels and a CMP partly looking for other signs of missed metabolic illnesses, other causes of acidosis, and renal/hepatic function.  We also usually do KUBs to look for GI content but we're also usually dealing with kids who are likely go to get chelated so this is key for that reason.  

-Did your son have his lead level tested at 2 years?  What was the lead level then (I'm asking to get an idea of the rise rate)?

-If your daughter hasn't been tested recently that would be a good idea especially since younger kids absorb lead more efficiently so there is reason to be concerned hers could be higher.  If her level is great then you can be reassured and this may also give you another clue towards determining your son's source.

 

 

I would see if you can get an inspector out there to find the lead source in your home.  They have a tool that can detect lead in paint, and they shoot literally every wall inside and outside.  

 

Some places to look for lead:

 

Windows

Doors

Door frames

Door thresholds

Porch

Dirt outside

In your water (old pipes often have lead)

In your dishes

 

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  We left our home to foreclosure because of elevated lead levels in your youngest. (It was one of the main reasons but not the only reason.)  

 

ETA: Just saw your DD's lead levels.  Yes, that is high.  They'll probably be recommending chelation therapy.  Please do some of your own research on how to support your daughter's body during that.  Chelation therapy can be hard on the body, particularly the bones.

-Nice list of sources.  I would also add in some crystal and glassware and certain batteries (or living near a battery recycling plant).

-We usually don't recommend chelation unless lead levels are rising rapidly (indicating more of an acute than subacute) or above 45micrograms/dL. I have seen D-Penicillamine used at lower levels but this is not FDA approved for lead chelation.  For the OP, if they are considering chelation make sure that they have cleared any lead from the GI tract (you can get a KUB/upright to check) otherwise your chelation therapy can actually make your lead level higher initially as it can pull lead from the GI tract---I think any toxicologist or pediatrician would/should know this but as chelation has apparently come in vogue a bit in the alternative medicine world we're seeing some of it spill over into lead poisoning not always with good results.  Additionally, if there are concerns with lead encephalopathy you need to be sure that they use an agent that crosses the blood brain barrier first otherwise the chelation may actually make the encephalopathy worse. 

[bolt.]

I hope that they are able to come soon to your home and help you identify the source of whatever is poisoning your child. I'm sorry they were rude to you, and I'm sure it's upsetting, but I'd let a super-villain from a comic book into my house if he could find the source of lead that my child was consuming. It's important. If you don't want social services, hire some sort of professional and jump the gun.

 

You also might need to rethink your idea about there being "nothing you can do" about renovations or other potential causes of this poisoning. Honestly, I think I'd move to a motel with my kids until the source was identified. Yeah, I'd do it even if I couldn't afford it. I'd go into short-term debt, because I won't expose my children to poison even if it costs me a bankruptcy.

 

I 'm sure you can get this sorted out and squared away in a week or two if you jump into action right now. Maybe (if you can identify the source) it will be safe to continue to sleep and cook at home. The sooner you find out, the safer you will be.

[AnIslandGirl]

His level was 17.

 

We are remodeling the upstairs hallway, but there is nothing I can do about that until it's done.

 

I'd never live in a house when it is being remodeled if I thought there is a lead contamination issue. Personally I'd rent a house until the remodel is finished.

We have a friend who's son was diagnosed with lead poisoning, and they had to move out for two years and completely rebuild. The long term health hazards certainly aren't worth the risk for a short term inconvenience.

 

Hopefully it's an easy fix for you and the source is quickly located. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for your son.

[MedicMom]

We had a lead inspection done before we moved in, before we had kids, and I don't remember any glaring problems. I didn't really look at it though. DH was a contractor and has his lead removal certificate; he says all the lead paint downstairs was removed before we moved in and the upstairs has new walls except for the hallway.

 

We never considered it as an issue, I guess. DH still isn't really thinking this is much of anything, but he did agree to go to the next pediatrician appointment. He is not going to take this seriously; he just said he needs to finish remodeling the hallway, which is the last place in the house containing lead paint. We have been remodeling this house for four years, so maybe it was past exposure. We had thought the lead was mostly removed before we moved in.

[bolt.]

I don't think you can defer to your husband's inclination against taking this poisoning seriously. It might be time for some pro-active actions in your part.

[joannqn]

With a blood lead level of 17, you need to override your husband and take this seriously.

To give you some perspective, my daughter was 14 months old when she was given a blood lead level of 3.4.  Lead levels peak at 18-24 months old, so we knew it was going to go up.  I was told by experts in more than one government office that treatment is generally recommended when levels get above 10 and that there was consideration being given to lowering that level to 5.  I was told that adverse effects had been seen as low as 2.  

We ended up leaving the house to foreclosure rather than risk it increasing lead poisoning.  

I do have to say that the lead was not the only reason we moved but it was a major one. 

[MedicMom]

The pediatrician is not recommending anything but nutrition support right now. DH says that the in house lead is limited to three areas that he can remove and repaint next week. Since this is what he used to do for a living(asbestos and lead removal) I'm inclined to believe him. The rest of the house is completely remodeled already.

The public health nurse stopped by this evening with a packet of information and she did say that there is a high level of lead in the area soil. My kids are outside a lot, but other than hand washing and making sure they don't eat the dirt, I don't know what to do about that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The pediatrician is not recommending anything but nutrition support right now. DH says that the in house lead is limited to three areas that he can remove and repaint next week. Since this is what he used to do for a living(asbestos and lead removal) I'm inclined to believe him. The rest of the house is completely remodeled already.

The public health nurse stopped by this evening with a packet of information and she did say that there is a high level of lead in the area soil. My kids are outside a lot, but other than hand washing and making sure they don't eat the dirt, I don't know what to do about that.

You need to find out what to do about that.  Your posts don't seem to reflect an understanding that this is a big deal esp. since your child is already showing signs of special needs and it is a high number - not just something that is borderline.  I would move heaven and earth to find out what is causing this, to find out if any of the other children have high levels, to stop it and to reverse it.  I wouldn't be satisfied with any approach that did not seek to have all that information and I wouldn't trust a pediatrician to necessarily know how to deal with this.  Public health seems to be giving this the serious consideration this needs.  I would welcome all of their involvement and would be knocking on their door for more information and for names of other doctors to consult.  

[MedicMom]

Public health is arranging for envinromental inspectors to come in and pinpoint if there is lead anywhere we don't realize. The nurse that stopped by is the head of their lead program, and she said they recommend nutritional counseling and a developmental screen as well. We were already doing a developmental screen, so she wasn't concerned there. As far as nutrition she said the big things were to give them iron and vitamin C. Other than that, she hasn't recommended anything else. We will get DD tested again as well; she is coming up on 2 so it would be time anyway. And they did say to have DS tested again in two weeks.

[Catwoman]

We had a lead inspection done before we moved in, before we had kids, and I don't remember any glaring problems. I didn't really look at it though. DH was a contractor and has his lead removal certificate; he says all the lead paint downstairs was removed before we moved in and the upstairs has new walls except for the hallway.

We never considered it as an issue, I guess. DH still isn't really thinking this is much of anything, but he did agree to go to the next pediatrician appointment. He is not going to take this seriously; he just said he needs to finish remodeling the hallway, which is the last place in the house containing lead paint. We have been remodeling this house for four years, so maybe it was past exposure. We had thought the lead was mostly removed before we moved in.

I absolutely can not fathom why your dh isn't taking this seriously!!!

 

This is already a big deal, and if you haven't yet located the source of the lead, the problem could get even worse. I would want the house tested immediately!

 

I hope your son is OK!!! :grouphug:

[Caroline]

I absolutely can not fathom why your dh isn't taking this seriously!!!

 

This is already a big deal, and if you haven't yet located the source of the lead, the problem could get even worse. I would want the house tested immediately!

 

I hope your son is OK!!! :grouphug:

And I would leave the house until it tested clean.

[AnIslandGirl]

And I would leave the house until it tested clean.

 

100% agree. The effects of lead poisoning are so scary and carry lifelong consequences. The damage is not repairable once done and certainly not a risk I'd be willing to take with children in the house.

[bolt.]

Is it possible that you are all suffering the effects if lead? It might explain why this situation isn't striking you as terribly serious.

 

It is terribly serious. However you have been doing life, stop all of it until each little thing has been proven safe. There is poison in your lifestyle. One of more of your children is being poisoned by one or more of the things you are doing regularly: something you consider normal.

 

One of your normal daily activities contains poison. It's invisible, and you have no way to know which "normal" thing it is. Whatever it is obviously SEEMS totally harmless... If if seemed like a problem, you would have stopped doing it long ago, of course.

 

My advice: change everything until each thing is proven safe. If it is not proven safe, assume its the danger.

[MedicMom]

I asked about leaving, and they didn't seem to think its necessary, at least until we talk to the inspectors. DS was somehow never tested before and they don't believe it's acute, so maybe that plays into it. In any case the inspectors come Monday and between work and a weekend getaway, the kids were going to be at grandparent's houses until then anyway.

 

DH under reacts to everything anyway. This will just push him to finish the upstairs remodel soon anyway. I mentioned to my supervisor how high the level was and he got a bunch of guys together to come up and just finish the remodel, since the consensus so far is that's the last of the lead and since it is part way done it's making everything worse. DH is still nursing a torn rotator cuff and hanging Sheetrock and tearing out stairs is a little beyond him. The nice thing about working in the fire/EMS service is that most of my coworkers have side jobs as contractors.

[Carrie12345]

The pediatrician is not recommending anything but nutrition support right now. DH says that the in house lead is limited to three areas that he can remove and repaint next week. Since this is what he used to do for a living(asbestos and lead removal) I'm inclined to believe him. The rest of the house is completely remodeled already.

The public health nurse stopped by this evening with a packet of information and she did say that there is a high level of lead in the area soil. My kids are outside a lot, but other than hand washing and making sure they don't eat the dirt, I don't know what to do about that.

 

If he worked in asbestos and lead, I have to believe he understands how containment works. The last time I checked, the laws in NJ (where we lived) involved double containment. And HAZMAT disposal.

 

We were fortunate that, when our apartment was found to have lead,  ds's levels came back fine, as did mine (while pregnant, and then we had the then-newborn tested.) And then we packed up and moved!

[MedicMom]

I believe in NY there are different rules for contractor vs. homeowner when it comes to hazard waste removal.

This made me think though--I checked my online medical records from his pregnancy. We lived in a new apartment during pregnancy while this house was remodeled and I was never here as DH did not want me exposed during sanding and such. Yet my lead level was high-ish at 10. I vaguely remember my OB mentioning it and telling me to drink orange juice.

I found DD 1 year old level and it was normal. Now I am concerned that I was exposed to something during pregnancy and it was missed. Even though I wasn't in our current home, I was working as a firefighter-paramedic until six months of pregnancy and exposed to a lot.

[JonesinIndiana]

Take this seriously.

 

My daughter had a 21 venous reading at 11 months. She was adopted from China from an orphanage known for high lead levels. It took 2 years for her numbers to be under 10, and not be followed by the county health dept. She dropped quickly in 6 months but it took another 18 months for the lead to clear her long bones. Lead is stored in the long bones. We used a balanced diet high in calcium since calcium bond to lead.

 

One of the many complication of high lead levels is learning disabilities (she has short term memory issues, not completely resolved after doing NR, but much better) and decay. She had decay between all her baby teeth that I found when the distal of a deciduous molar broke as I was flossing her teeth. I knew she had decay everywhere ( I am a dental hygienist). Lead interferes with the way enamel is laid down, making the enamel weak. So far her adult teeth are stronger because she is getting fluoride in our water.

 

Good luck in finding the source of the contamination and getting it out of your child's system.

[Carrie12345]

Ah, it does seem NY allows household disposal in limited quantities. (Dh typically works commercial properties in NY, so no go there, lol.)

 

Just some tips: https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/2502/

[Rachel TX]

The child I know with high levels of lead was exposed to it through lead pipes in their ancient house. You drink bottled water, but do you cook with tap water?

 

Of the family in that house, the son was affected the most. Chelation helped.

[itsheresomewhere]

Are the children taking any vitamins?  Certain ones (especially the made in china ones) were found to have high lead levels that were in the FDA allowed levels.  One of those TV doctor's was expressing concern over long term especially children already exposed to lead.  

 

Double check the toys and even the clothes.  Some shirts were recalled not too long ago for elevated lead levels.   Good luck.