Help - before I do something I'll regret (dog related)

[Pawz4me]

Upstate South Carolina. Thanks!

 

Then the closest vet school to you is probably going to be at NCSU in Raleigh.

 

I'd guess you could find plenty of specialists in Charlotte.  I know Carolina Vet Specialists has an office in Charlotte.

[AimeeM]

I made a large pot of rice. What would be a good protein to add, if not chicken? When I googled it, it said to add an "uncommon protein", like duck?

 

Although I agree with you that it doesn't seem to be a food issue (because we've also had him fast, as per trainer's suggestion, and that doesn't seem to help), I'm going to give it a shot just because any amount of relief is better than none - until I can get him into a specialist.

 

His primary vet isn't really getting my vote of confidence, at this point, so I might see if I can get him in elsewhere for a referral. When asked about the dog aggression issues, she had said she doubted it could be fixed, and tried to refer me out to a team of dog behaviour specialists - at several thousand dollars. Oddly enough, a few sessions in with the private trainer and he is making remarkable progress. I've noticed that that the main staff at this clinic do not seem overly fond of GSDs in general (the kennel manager making a remark about GSDs being the one breed she is terrified of!).

The problem with assuming it's food related (and I really, really don't think it is) is that you're just playing a guessing game by trying different commercial foods.  There are so many ingredients in even limited ingredient commercial foods that it's almost impossible to figure out issues related to food that way.  And any dog can have issues with any food, preservative, etc.  I have not noticed that dogs are particularly sensitive to chicken.  Grains get a bad rap, but ALL the veterinary studies I've read indicate that meat proteins are statistically much more likely to be an allergy trigger in dogs than grains.  Lamb used to be considered a hypoallergenic meat protein many years ago, but no more.  It has been a common ingredient in commercial foods for decades now, which means it's no longer considered hypoallergenic (and hasn't been for a very long time).

 

What you'd need to do is either go to a prescription limited ingredient diet or a homemade diet consisting of one protein and one carb source.  And preferably none of the ingredients in the prescription food or the homemade food would be anything he's ever had before.  And you'd feed that and absolutely nothing else--no treats, no chew bones, not even chewable heartworm preventative, for a minimum of several weeks.  My vet recommends 12 weeks for food allergy elimination diets.  It's not an easy thing to do, but it's truly the only way to tell if food is the culprit.  In your case I think it's highly unlikely.  The bowel issues could possibly be related to food.  Maybe.  But loss of bladder control?  Extremely unlikely, IMO.

 

As far as whether or not neurological issues can be fixed -- I don't know.  I guess it depends on the issue, and I'm sure some can be treated.

 

 

 

Here is a link to the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine's board-certified neurologists page.  You may find some help there under their "find a specialist" link.  I'd also try Googling "veterinary neurologists [your state or close big city"].  If your state or a nearby state has a vet school, that's a good place to look.  From what I understand, having a pet seen at a vet school can often be less expensive than a private practice specialist.  Most veterinary specialists and vet schools require a referral from a regular vet.

 

[plansrme]

 

If we find a specialist, and it is a neurological issue, can it be fixed? Getting him to the vet is quite the adventure :) He requires heavy sedation, before getting in the car, and muzzling, so we try to only go as absolutely needed (i.e. I'd like to find a specialist on my own, without necessarily going through his vet first, to lessen how much we have to sedate him and cause him stress). I'll set to googling a specialist.

 

Maybe I have been spoiled by the dogs I've lived with, but this sounds like one more seriously messed-up dog.  Even if you can fix the pottying issues, do you have the resources (time, money, patience) to fix the rest of him?  Some dogs are just too crazy (GSDs are common offenders, unfortunately) to ever be family pets.  I don't mean to be harsh to you OR the dog--none of us should judge either of you, but I am not a "save him at all costs" kind of person and just want to suggest that not taking extreme measures to rehabilitate this dog does not make you an unfit dog owner.

 

I don't hate GSDs at all; my parents had a GSD when I was born, my first word was his name (not mama or dada), and he figures prominently in all baby pictures of me--he's right here keeping tabs on his flock.  He was an AWESOME dog.  But today's GSDs are, by and large, not the GSDs of 50 years ago, and I hear far more stories of GSDs that are just crazy than of GSDs who are awesome family pets, especially if they were bred by backyard breeders or some show breeders.  Your dog may be doing the best he can with the handicaps irresponsible breeders saddled him with, but still--he may not be fixable.

[AimeeM]

Then the closest vet school to you is probably going to be at NCSU in Raleigh.

 

Crap. I wonder if they make house calls. I kid, I kid - kind of. Luke is terrified of the car - that long of a trip would be a nightmare for the poor thing; I'll make a call and see if they can call in a sedation medication first.

 

I'll be frank. I'm worried about what they'll say. None of this - the dog aggression, the being scared of car rides, the digestive issues... none of it really started until about a year ago. Before that, he was MILDLY hesitant about new dogs, but certainly never tried to pull the things he's pulling now; combined with the digestive issues and general anxiety he seems to feel when outside the house - I'm worried.

 

He just isn't the same Luke anymore. I hope whatever is wrong can be fixed. I'll get rid of the trainer for now, if need be, but I want him to be okay. Despite what the vet's office thinks, he really is a sweet, sweet dog.

[AimeeM]

Maybe I have been spoiled by the dogs I've lived with, but this sounds like one more seriously messed-up dog.  Even if you can fix the pottying issues, do you have the resources (time, money, patience) to fix the rest of him?  Some dogs are just too crazy (GSDs are common offenders, unfortunately) to ever be family pets.  I don't mean to be harsh to you OR the dog--none of us should judge either of you, but I am not a "save him at all costs" kind of person and just want to suggest that not taking extreme measures to rehabilitate this dog does not make you an unfit dog owner.

 

I don't hate GSDs at all; my parents had a GSD when I was born, my first word was his name (not mama or dada), and he figures prominently in all baby pictures of me--he's right here keeping tabs on his flock.  He was an AWESOME dog.  But today's GSDs are, by and large, not the GSDs of 50 years ago, and I hear far more stories of GSDs that are just crazy than of GSDs who are awesome family pets, especially if they were bred by backyard breeders or some show breeders.  Your dog may be doing the best he can with the handicaps irresponsible breeders saddled him with, but still--he may not be fixable.

 

But he's GREAT as a family dog, outside of the digestive issues. He's even great with the other dog in the house (who was here before him). It seems to be outside of his territory that he is anxious and finds trouble. Even directly outside our home, he is a joy to have and know - the neighbors are very fond of him, he goes bounding up to greet them, etc.

 

Before I would make that type of decision, I would need to be told, by a specialist, that either his quality of life would never be very good OR that he is a danger to my children (which I have never, never seen - he is ridiculously tolerant and affectionate with all children, not just my own).

 

ETA: his breeder isn't actually a breeder - he's a trainer (police dogs, working GSDs, etc). Mom and Dad (dog) are his own family pets, and he only bred them a couple times.

[Pawz4me]

I made a large pot of rice. What would be a good protein to add, if not chicken? When I googled it, it said to add an "uncommon protein", like duck?

 

Although I agree with you that it doesn't seem to be a food issue (because we've also had him fast, as per trainer's suggestion, and that doesn't seem to help), I'm going to give it a shot just because any amount of relief is better than none - until I can get him into a specialist.

 

Ideally, yes.  You'd feed him something like duck, venison, bison, rabbit, etc.  Unfortunately, duck and venison are becoming more and more common in commercial pet foods.  Just like lamb, they will soon lose their benefit as novel protein sources.

 

So that's ideal.  More practically . . just feeding him a very limited ingredient diet for a few days (or weeks) certainly won't hurt and at least you'll be trying something.  Sometimes you just have to do the best you can.  Statistically (and in order) the following foods are usually cited as the most common triggers for food allergies/intolerances in dogs:  beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy.  So I would avoid all of those.

 

[SKL]

Oh, I can't believe I forgot.  Long ago, we had a family dog who was sick all winter.  It was a cold winter, so she was in the house.  Usually it was vomit, but once it was diarrhea (on the carpet, of course).  The dog would run around crying the whole time, so it would be all over the place.  It was my job to clean it up, so I know all about that.  :/  But, she usually only did it at night, meaning there was usually a little bit of warning, if anyone was awake.

The vet decided it was worms.  She had a bad habit of eating out of the kitchen garbage.  (She had been a stray until she was 6 mos old, so training her out of her bad habit was basically impossible.)  The wormer didn't work though, so we thought maybe she was allergic to our new carpet.  We did try different foods etc., but none of that helped.

 

She became an outdoor dog as the weather improved, and she stopped being sick.  We got her an insulated doghouse and filled it with hay in the winter, and put it into the garage when it got really cold.  She lived to a nice old doggy age.  I believe she was part GS and part hound, if that matters.

[plansrme]

 

ETA: his breeder isn't actually a breeder - he's a trainer (police dogs, working GSDs, etc). Mom and Dad (dog) are his own family pets, and he only bred them a couple times.

 

He bred his dogs twice; he is a breeder.  But what does the breeder say?  Have you contacted him to see if any of the litter mates have had similar issues?

[Lolly]

Personally, I would probably put the dog down. I am one of those "at all cost" people when it comes to animals. Something is going on with the dog that is not "right". To me, it sounds neurological. That could cover the aggression and the bathroom. But, I have actually had a dog that I went the extra mile with. If you want the easiest, fastest fix, you could try letting him be an inside/outside dog. Install a doggy door so that he has access to the fenced backyard at all times. Since the fence isn't adequate to hold him, install an invisible fence inside the actual fence. The combination of the two should contain him extremely well. 

[AimeeM]

Personally, I would probably put the dog down. I am one of those "at all cost" people when it comes to animals. Something is going on with the dog that is not "right". To me, it sounds neurological. That could cover the aggression and the bathroom. But, I have actually had a dog that I went the extra mile with. If you want the easiest, fastest fix, you could try letting him be an inside/outside dog. Install a doggy door so that he has access to the fenced backyard at all times. Since the fence isn't adequate to hold him, install an invisible fence inside the actual fence. The combination of the two should contain him extremely well. 

 

The doggy door isn't feasible because of the layout of the property. The fenced in back yard backs up to our unfinished basement/storage area - he wouldn't/couldn't have access to the house itself with a doggy door. We can't put him in the front yard, even with a fence, because of how dog aggressive he is - it's a busy subdivision with lots of walkers... should he scale a fence, it would end badly. Now, if he continues to make progress (and he is making great progress) with the dog aggression issues, that would be a possibility, but we would have to clear with the neighborhood building a high enough fence to contain him (and I'm not sure how that would go over).

[AimeeM]

He bred his dogs twice; he is a breeder.  But what does the breeder say?  Have you contacted him to see if any of the litter mates have had similar issues?

 

I'm sorry - you're right. I mean that he isn't a professional breeder. When my husband went to pick the Luke up, as a young pup, he was most impressed because there was no typical breeding set-up; the pups, mom, and dad, were all kept in the house with the family, and were very obviously doted on and loved.

None of his litter mates, mom or dad, have these issues, that we're aware of (or that he's been contacted about). "Breeder" kept one of the litter, and he has no issues that we're aware of.

[Incognito]

Putting Luke outside can be a temporary thing.  A dog with that sort of problem isn't enjoying the time inside anyways -stressing about soiling the living area.

 

Dogs can live outside in really harsh climates.  You can have Luke in during naptime every day (and after toddler bedtime until your bedtime).  You'd probably have better "quality" time together that way anyways.  Right now your time and energy go into cleaning up after him.

 

Right now he is a danger to your children - kids should not be regularly in urine or feces.  That is CPS worthy.  I understand you clean it up, but that is the sort of thing people get in serious trouble over because it is really bad. 

 

ETA:  Outside is a viable solution.  If he will scale the fence, get an invisible one or put him on a lead.  I am NOT an avocate of dogs being chained outside, but extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme measures (this would be a temporary solution - a step on the way to a better solution).

 

[AimeeM]

Putting Luke outside can be a temporary thing.  A dog with that sort of problem isn't enjoying the time inside anyways -stressing about soiling the living area.

 

Dogs can live outside in really harsh climates.  You can have Luke in during naptime every day (and after toddler bedtime until your bedtime).  You'd probably have better "quality" time together that way anyways.  Right now your time and energy go into cleaning up after him.

 

Right now he is a danger to your children - kids should not be regularly in urine or feces.  That is CPS worthy.  I understand you clean it up, but that is the sort of thing people get in serious trouble over because it is really bad. 

 

ETA:  Outside is a viable solution.  If he will scale the fence, get an invisible one or put him on a lead.  I am NOT an avocate of dogs being chained outside, but extreme circumstances sometimes call for extreme measures (this would be a temporary solution - a step on the way to a better solution).

I'm not opposed to putting him outside. I guess I just feel mean doing it :( If he did scale the fence, logically he would probably just come to the front door, lol.

How can I keep him warm outside? There IS a covered patio area outside - it only gets wet when it rains REALLY hard. Build him a makeshift dog house with warm bedding in it, maybe?

 

 

[AimeeM]

Okay, so... I just went and looked at the backyard area more closely. I'm washing his favorite warm blankets and I'll put them under the covered patio area, against the wall of the basement.

I'm going to rearrange our schedule for now, so that during the babe's naptime, Luke comes inside - and instead of doing school work with my middle son, we'll concentrate on spending time with Luke. I'll also bring him inside for a few hours before we go to bed at night.

 

Are you sure he won't get too cold at night? It IS south carolina, so realistically, our temps are never very extreme but during the summer - since this is short term, until we get him into the specialist, hopefully we won't have to worry about the summer heat.

 

I'll keep his food and water dish out there and filled (checking the water frequently to make sure it hasn't frozen).

 

I'm going to do a trial run this afternoon, to make sure he isn't going to scale the fence. I have a couple errands to run first, but after that I'll be home for the entire day, so I can keep a better eye on him.

[Incognito]

 

He'll be fine.  You said he has a crate?  I'd put that out there, even with a blanket over the top to hold warm air in, and his favorite blankets inside.  Face it so the wind doesn't blow in.

 

You can put him in the garage when you are not home and at night.  Then you don't have to worry about him running off when you are not there/sleeping, and if there is a mess it is just hosing off the garage floor.  Cozy blankets in a corner of the garage with a water dish.

[Jann in TX]

I've had several German Shepherds ( 6 since we have been married)

Most have had chicken allergies.

 

All 3 of my white German Shepherds have also had grain allergies. (Only one of my black and tans had it).

 

I ONLY feed a salmon/fish based non-grain food.  It is premium but the cost is not too bad because they require less food (bulk) to get the same calories... most of the grain in regular dog food is filler.

 

My current dogs can tollerate rice--but absolutely no other grains.  Even giving one simple MilkBone dog cookie will result in them having potty issues-- and when a 130 pound dog has issues-- it is a HUGE mess to clean up!

 

I currently use either Tast of the Wild (fish) or 4 Health Salmon (from Tractor Supply stores). 

Dog treats are usually salmon/fish and potato (grain free).

 

I also feed raw beef bones for treats.

 

Get a second opinion and stay away from CHICKEN!  I would go with fish and rice if you want to clean out the system (even as far as wild caught fish because farm fish will have been fed grains).

[Lolly]

Oh hon! I wish you were closer, I have an unused igloo type dog house I could give you. Yes, he will be okay outside at night. Especially since you have a covered area! If you can, get him a house. Fill it with cedar shavings (dog bedding sold in pet area). Between that and his coat (which will thicken quickly!), he will be just fine. As far as the fence goes, you can get a fairly inexpensive no fence fence at the farm store. It doesn't take long to train them to stay inside it. I strongly recommend using a double fence system with a dog who has aggression issues, btdt. One other thing to keep in mind, hate being the Debbie-downer, but his aggressiveness might get worse being outside. 

[zoobie]

Then the closest vet school to you is probably going to be at NCSU in Raleigh.

 

I'd guess you could find plenty of specialists in Charlotte. I know Carolina Vet Specialists has an office in Charlotte.

I would look into vet schools too. UGA's is great. Not sure which is closer. We had a dog in ICU there for 10 days. As a warning, they require a substantial deposit and will bring this up bluntly in the intake meeting. There's an interest free or low interest finance program someone linked up thread. Make a decision, as hard as it may be, as to how much you are willing to spend before you take him for testing.

 

He does not sound like a healthy boy. Think of his quality of life too. Constant, uncontrollable diarrhea (and I agree, the straining sounds like intestinal spasms more than constipation) is miserable. That plus the personality change... I would be hesitant to have him around small children. Definitely not with uncontrollable diarrhea. Can you block him in an area with easily cleanable floors? Diapers?

 

The backyard breeders are dangerous. They don't know what they're doing and create dogs with serious issues. Or it could be just a freak thing, but I'd avoid that irresponsible man in the future if you decide to get another GSD.

 

I'm so sorry about your pup. I hope you get some answers soon. I really don't think I would spend money on a trainer at this point.

[AimeeM]

 

 

He'll be fine.  You said he has a crate?  I'd put that out there, even with a blanket over the top to hold warm air in, and his favorite blankets inside.  Face it so the wind doesn't blow in.

 

You can put him in the garage when you are not home and at night.  Then you don't have to worry about him running off when you are not there/sleeping, and if there is a mess it is just hosing off the garage floor.  Cozy blankets in a corner of the garage with a water dish.

 

 

The garage is inside the basement, so unfortunately that isn't a possibility - if he messes in there, it would be very difficult to clean. I'll put his crate outside, though - that sounds like a great idea. The cover on the patio should help some with the wind as well.

 

[AimeeM]

I would look into vet schools too. UGA's is great. Not sure which is closer. We had a dog in ICU there for 10 days. As a warning, they require a substantial deposit and will bring this up bluntly in the intake meeting. There's an interest free or low interest finance program someone linked up thread. Make a decision, as hard as it may be, as to how much you are willing to spend before you take him for testing.

 

He does not sound like a healthy boy. Think of his quality of life too. Constant, uncontrollable diarrhea (and I agree, the straining sounds like intestinal spasms more than constipation) is miserable. That plus the personality change... I would be hesitant to have him around small children. Definitely not with uncontrollable diarrhea. Can you block him in an area with easily cleanable floors? Diapers?

 

The backyard breeders are dangerous. They don't know what they're doing and create dogs with serious issues. Or it could be just a freak thing, but I'd avoid that irresponsible man in the future if you decide to get another GSD.

 

I'm so sorry about your pup. I hope you get some answers soon. I really don't think I would spend money on a trainer at this point.

 

I've decided to put him outdoors for now :( I'm not fond of the idea, but besides the obvious issues of having him mess in the house with the children, HE gets depressed when he sees what he has done.

 

I'm not sure I could ever get another dog if we can't fix Luke. I feel like I've failed him miserably.

 

[AimeeM]

Oh hon! I wish you were closer, I have an unused igloo type dog house I could give you. Yes, he will be okay outside at night. Especially since you have a covered area! If you can, get him a house. Fill it with cedar shavings (dog bedding sold in pet area). Between that and his coat (which will thicken quickly!), he will be just fine. As far as the fence goes, you can get a fairly inexpensive no fence fence at the farm store. It doesn't take long to train them to stay inside it. I strongly recommend using a double fence system with a dog who has aggression issues, btdt. One other thing to keep in mind, hate being the Debbie-downer, but his aggressiveness might get worse being outside. 

 

Thanks :)

I'll get him a bed and house this weekend. You said cedar shavings?

 

I don't know what we're going to do about Christmas. He usually boards, but he can't board like this. We HAVE to go see my elderly father-in-law; he doesn't have many seasons left. We can't take Luke (old row home up north; no real yard to speak of, and FIL has a dog). His trainer will not/cannot board him if we stop using her services (she has another dog - so it's imperative that she is actively working on his aggression issues if she keeps him at her home).

 

I feel absolutely sick.

 

[J-rap]

Could he have a severe anxiety issue?  Are there anxiety drugs you can give to dogs?  You know, we had an absolutely wonderful pup, from a loving home (a nice farm family with just a mom and dad dog and this first litter).  But as he got just a little older he started exhibiting weird behavior.  We couldn't put it together at first, but we did find out from the original family, eventually, that the reason he was the last one adopted was because he was so shy.  He would hide anytime anyone came to their farm.  He didn't with us, but we started putting it together and realized he had severe, and I mean SEVERE anxiety issues.  Unfortunately, in our case, these issues resulted in anxiety violence and had a very, very sad ending (which I'm still not completely over  :-(  )  In your case, given that it's mostly the bathroom problem, perhaps anxiety meds would be worth trying.  I love animals so much, I'm the type of person who would keep trying absolutely anything, unless of course other people were in danger of being injured.

[zoobie]

I'd get him in a vet school hospital ASAP. Today, this weekend... Leaving him outside only keeps you from scrubbing floors; it doesn't solve his health problem. It's either fixable or not, but figuring that out now is best for him.

[AimeeM]

I'd get him in a vet school hospital ASAP. Today, this weekend... Leaving him outside only keeps you from scrubbing floors; it doesn't solve his health problem. It's either fixable or not, but figuring that out now is best for him.

 

It isn't that easy. My husband is leaving on a business trip, I have a breastfed babe at home, and the nearest is still several hours away. There isn't anybody available to stay with the other children on this short of notice, during the day, and I have one in brick and mortar school who still needs to get to and from school (private school; no buses).

I certainly do not plan on leaving him outside for long - I promise (I'm not fond of putting him out at all). If I can schedule something for next week, that would be best (although we would still have a problem with my oldest and school).

[AimeeM]

Could he have a severe anxiety issue?  Are there anxiety drugs you can give to dogs?  You know, we had an absolutely wonderful pup, from a loving home (a nice farm family with just a mom and dad dog and this first litter).  But as he got just a little older he started exhibiting weird behavior.  We couldn't put it together at first, but we did find out from the original family, eventually, that the reason he was the last one adopted was because he was so shy.  He would hide anytime anyone came to their farm.  He didn't with us, but we started putting it together and realized he had severe, and I mean SEVERE anxiety issues.  Unfortunately, in our case, these issues resulted in anxiety violence and had a very, very sad ending (which I'm still not completely over  :-(  )  In your case, given that it's mostly the bathroom problem, perhaps anxiety meds would be worth trying.  I love animals so much, I'm the type of person who would keep trying absolutely anything, unless of course other people were in danger of being injured.

 

I really hope it isn't severe anxiety issues. It seems to be the general consensus that a GSD with anxiety issues, even medicated, can't be trusted around children.

[J-rap]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I really hope it isn't severe anxiety issues. It seems to be the general consensus that a GSD with anxiety issues, even medicated, can't be trusted around children.

 

[zoobie]

It isn't that easy. My husband is leaving on a business trip, I have a breastfed babe at home, and the nearest is still several hours away. There isn't anybody available to stay with the other children on this short of notice, during the day, and I have one in brick and mortar school who still needs to get to and from school (private school; no buses).

I certainly do not plan on leaving him outside for long - I promise (I'm not fond of putting him out at all). If I can schedule something for next week, that would be best (although we would still have a problem with my oldest and school).

Usually you drop off (at least overnight) and not stay while they do testing. The university setting isn't quick in-and-out. I don't know if they have scheduled drop offs or if it's all walk-in. Ours was vomiting blood and an emergency intake. They took her back immediately while a resident and student got the history. We paid a deposit and left. UGA is only 2ish hours away, and I took my three (baby still nursing) along. We got a snack or a meal then drove back home. It does suck to have to deal with littles on top of a sick pet.

[LMV]

From one of our Veterinarian relatives:

-Both NC State (in Raleigh, NC) and UGA (in Athens. GA) have reputable vet schools in her expanded regional area and are probably a good bet as far as getting a comprehensive evaluation.  

-Both schools have post grad neurology fellowships (the relative in question thought that the UGA program while newer may actually be the stronger one---at least toward's small animal---he admits that he has a former classmate who is involved in the UGA program).

-Both schools should have a diagnostic clinic (probably companion animal although they may not break things up that way) that you can schedule into.  In some cases you may need a referral from a veterinarian (and referrals often expedite things in general).  They could completely tell you how to refer back into Cornell's Companion Animal Hospital but you probably don't want to travel to Ithaca, NY.   

 

Good Luck!

[Alenee]

I just want you to know I totally feel for you.  :grouphug:

 

We have a 2yo GSD and our first year with him was hell.  He couldn't be away from me or he'd get totally stressed out.  He has severe allergy issues which resulted in diarrhea all the time.  The kicker was when we'd changed all his food and then he got sick.  Loose BMs for over a month and then one day, vomiting.  I was supposed to leave that day for a weekend retreat but my regular vet couldn't see him until later in the afternoon.  I called our old vet who got us in right away.  They tested everything but found nothing until I asked them to do a stomach x-ray.  They ended up finding a sewing needle in his liver.  $2,000 later, we weren't sure we should've spent the money.  It was an awful time.  However, now at 2yo, he's an amazing dog and we're really thankful we didn't give up.

 

All that to say, has anyone done stomach x-rays?  Our dog exhibited very similar behaviors before finding that sewing needle.

[ktgrok]

Crap. I wonder if they make house calls. I kid, I kid - kind of. Luke is terrified of the car - that long of a trip would be a nightmare for the poor thing; I'll make a call and see if they can call in a sedation medication first.

 

I'll be frank. I'm worried about what they'll say. None of this - the dog aggression, the being scared of car rides, the digestive issues... none of it really started until about a year ago. Before that, he was MILDLY hesitant about new dogs, but certainly never tried to pull the things he's pulling now; combined with the digestive issues and general anxiety he seems to feel when outside the house - I'm worried.

 

He just isn't the same Luke anymore. I hope whatever is wrong can be fixed. I'll get rid of the trainer for now, if need be, but I want him to be okay. Despite what the vet's office thinks, he really is a sweet, sweet dog.

 

Any vomiting?

 

Have they tested him for Addison's disease?

[AimeeM]

From one of our Veterinarian relatives:

-Both NC State (in Raleigh, NC) and UGA (in Athens. GA) have reputable vet schools in her expanded regional area and are probably a good bet as far as getting a comprehensive evaluation.  

-Both schools have post grad neurology fellowships (the relative in question thought that the UGA program while newer may actually be the stronger one---at least toward's small animal---he admits that he has a former classmate who is involved in the UGA program).

 

I think Athens may be closer. It lists that as only an hour and 45 minutes (or so). Plus side there - my mother lives another 30 minutes or so from Athens, so if they had the option of dropping off over the weekend, I could stay with her overnight and dd's school wouldn't be an issue.

 

[AimeeM]

Any vomiting?

 

Have they tested him for Addison's disease?

 

He only vomits when he eats too quickly. It doesn't happen often.

I believe they've done x-rays; I'll have to check his last visit forms.

[LMV]

I think Athens may be closer. It lists that as only an hour and 45 minutes (or so). Plus side there - my mother lives another 30 minutes or so from Athens, so if they had the option of dropping off over the weekend, I could stay with her overnight and dd's school wouldn't be an issue.

 

 

Without knowing exactly where you live I got the impression that Athens would probably be closer.  I added a little more information above that they had mentioned about getting things arranged (your own local vet may be helpful here).  

[ktgrok]

He only vomits when he eats too quickly. It doesn't happen often.

I believe they've done x-rays; I'll have to check his last visit forms.

 

Addisons is a specialized blood test, not xrays. 

[AimeeM]

Addisons is a specialized blood test, not xrays. 

 

When I just talked to Tony, he said that he would want another set of blood tests as well, so I'll ask them to specifically run that test.

Our game plan right now -

* He hasn't had any more accidents since this afternoon, so I'm going to keep him in tonight (it's pretty cold out), and work on a dog house for a short term stay outside.

* We're going to get another vet opinion; I'm calling tomorrow to get him to a more established vet with an old local practice (been here for 50 years or so). We'll ask specifically for more blood work, including one for Addisons', and an x-ray.

* Dependent on what those show, we'll decide our next steps. If those tests still show nothing abnormal, physically, we'll get him in at the Athens hospital. If it is determined THERE to be neurological or a severe anxiety issue... well, I don't know. I hope not.

[Aura]

I've had several German Shepherds ( 6 since we have been married)

Most have had chicken allergies.

 

All 3 of my white German Shepherds have also had grain allergies. (Only one of my black and tans had it).

 

I ONLY feed a salmon/fish based non-grain food.  It is premium but the cost is not too bad because they require less food (bulk) to get the same calories... most of the grain in regular dog food is filler.

 

My current dogs can tollerate rice--but absolutely no other grains.  Even giving one simple MilkBone dog cookie will result in them having potty issues-- and when a 130 pound dog has issues-- it is a HUGE mess to clean up!

 

I currently use either Tast of the Wild (fish) or 4 Health Salmon (from Tractor Supply stores). 

Dog treats are usually salmon/fish and potato (grain free).

 

I also feed raw beef bones for treats.

 

Get a second opinion and stay away from CHICKEN!  I would go with fish and rice if you want to clean out the system (even as far as wild caught fish because farm fish will have been fed grains).

 

I just wanted to bring this back up. I was just doing some research on dog food allergies, and it seems that chicken is one of the more common allergens. I expected it to be grains, but no, the most common are actually chicken, beef & egg (if I remember correctly...chicken and egg were definitely higher on the list than the grains).

 

Food allergies can really mess anyone up (human or dog.) So unless you have done an elimination diet or some testing specifically for food allergies, *I* would certainly try that first. It would be a loss less traumatic for you and Luke, and a lot cheaper, too.

 

UGA really does have a very good vet school, if you decide to go that route. 

[Wolfmeis]

I totally see allergy here.  To what? 

 

We thought our mal / gsd cross was allergic to his food, for very similar reasons. He housetrained very well, but suddenly relapsed.  Just as you describe, he would strain and fluctuate.  He'd be completely shocked by the spatter when he'd erupt and sort of run away from it, making it worse.  It smelled "sick."  We switched his diet to the natural stuff at Costco that's JUST turkey and sweet potato or salmon and sweet potato.   That helped somewhat, but it turned out our dog's issue is fleas.  If he's not strictly on-time protected with the flea meds, he gets itchy and contracts diarrhea.  It's the weirdest thing.

 

FWIW I think the outside / backyard advice is sound and kind, until you figure this out.  It's far better than going straight to euthanasia or the pound, and he'll get some dignity back.  Just make sure he gets lots of visitation.

 

 

ETA This is what we feed our dogs now.  It completely cleared up the shih tzu's hot spots and itching.  Took about two weeks. http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/about-natures-domain/natures-domain-salmon-meal-and-sweet-potato-formula-for-dogs

[Pawz4me]

I totally see allergy here.  To what? 

 

We thought our mal / gsd cross was allergic to his food, for very similar reasons. He housetrained very well, but suddenly relapsed.  Just as you describe, he would strain and fluctuate.  He'd be completely shocked by the spatter when he'd erupt and sort of run away from it, making it worse.  It smelled "sick."  We switched his diet to the natural stuff at Costco that's JUST turkey and sweet potato or salmon and sweet potato.   That helped somewhat, but it turned out our dog's issue is fleas.  If he's not strictly on-time protected with the flea meds, he gets itchy and contracts diarrhea.  It's the weirdest thing.

 

FWIW I think the outside / backyard advice is sound and kind, until you figure this out.  It's far better than going straight to euthanasia or the pound, and he'll get some dignity back.  Just make sure he gets lots of visitation.

 

 

ETA This is what we feed our dogs now.  It completely cleared up the shih tzu's hot spots and itching.  Took about two weeks. http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/about-natures-domain/natures-domain-salmon-meal-and-sweet-potato-formula-for-dogs

 

But what you mention (and what the OP does NOT mention) is key when determining whether or not a dog has a true food allergy -- and that is itchiness.  Lots of itchiness that involves large parts of the body.  The OP hasn't mentioned that as a problem.  All the vets I know consider a gastrointestinal response to a food w/o itching to be an intolerance.  Not an allergy.  Allergies can be tested for.  I don't know whether or not intolerances can be.

 

I have a highly allergic dog.  He's been tested and is allergic to 37 things.  Some foods, some inhalants, some contact allergens.  But he has no diarrhea or other gastrointestinal symptoms.  Because what he has are allergies, not intolerances.

 

But I've yet to meet a dog who had a food allergy or an intolerance that affected bladder control.  That's the key here, IMO.

[Mama Geek]

It sounds like Clemson is probably pretty close to you.  I just looked they do have a vet school.  I have no idea what their rep is or how you find out when and where they see dogs.  I do know that Clemson is a big agriculture school so they may be worth a to see if you can take him there.

[ravinlunachick]

Aimee, call Upstate Dog Training. They board dogs as well as offering varying levels of training (including boarding/training). The owner has a GSD herself, so she might also know of local resources for you. They're on Hwy. 14 in Greer.

[ravinlunachick]

Also, if you're comfortable using a pet sitter rather than a kennel to board, I may have a name for you. :)

[Pawz4me]

It sounds like Clemson is probably pretty close to you.  I just looked they do have a vet school.  I have no idea what their rep is or how you find out when and where they see dogs.  I do know that Clemson is a big agriculture school so they may be worth a to see if you can take him there.

 

I believe Clemson does not offer veterinary DVM degrees.  As such, it appears that they don't have an outpatient clinic (or any other kind of clinic).  I may be wrong, but I've never heard of it, nor have I ever seen Clemson listed on any "best veterinarian schools" rankings.

 

[AimeeM]

Also, if you're comfortable using a pet sitter rather than a kennel to board, I may have a name for you. :)

 

I would be comfortable using a pet sitter if they have incredible references :)

I don't think anyone would take him in a kennel given the tummy issues he's having currently - and staying at home would be considerably less stressful for him.

[AimeeM]

But what you mention (and what the OP does NOT mention) is key when determining whether or not a dog has a true food allergy -- and that is itchiness.  Lots of itchiness that involves large parts of the body.  The OP hasn't mentioned that as a problem.  All the vets I know consider a gastrointestinal response to a food w/o itching to be an intolerance.  Not an allergy.  Allergies can be tested for.  I don't know whether or not intolerances can be.

 

I have a highly allergic dog.  He's been tested and is allergic to 37 things.  Some foods, some inhalants, some contact allergens.  But he has no diarrhea or other gastrointestinal symptoms.  Because what he has are allergies, not intolerances.

 

But I've yet to meet a dog who had a food allergy or an intolerance that affected bladder control.  That's the key here, IMO.

 

Nope - no abnormal itching.

 

[AimeeM]

Luke must know he's being talked about :) No accidents in the house since earlier yesterday, lol.