Severely Disappointed with RightStart Math

[Guest flexgrip]

I have been using the Right Start Math (Level A and some Level B ) with my 5 year old daughter.  Unfortunately this program has been a severe disappointment.  Here are the issues:

 

1) The program jumps around from topic to topic.  There is no logical progression and mastery for a child to focus on.  You start learning a topic then jump to another topic and another

2) The program introduces many mathematical concepts that are advanced / abstract such as fractals which seem to be inappropriate for young learners

3) The focus is not on the basics but rather on the abstract and this can easily frustrate my young daughter

4) Level B gets the children adding four digit numbers without having them master the basic addition principles (i.e. daughter relies heavily on the abacus)

5) At least for Level A and what we have done in Level B, the games are not the greatest

 

I find my daughter stuggling with this program.  In contrast, she excelled with the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading.  That program is much more focused (no writing, just reading) and very progressive.  Everything you learn is built upon the previous lessons.

 

So what I am looking for is a math program better suited for my daughter.  What program is:

 

1) Focused on the BASICS not abstract

2) Is progressive and doesn't jump around

 

Suprisingly, my daughter likes to do worksheets so if the program uses them that is fine.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thank You

[Farrar]

Look into Singapore Primary Math or Math Mammoth.

 

Since you have the games anyway, I'll say that many of them get better when you play them more.  My fourth graders and I still love Corners.

[Crimson Wife]

I'll agree with you that level A jumps around WAY too much. I ended up dumping it with my DS and just waiting until he was old enough for B.

 

It sounds to me like you are going through RS too quickly. Just because the TM says to take 1-2 days per lesson does NOT mean you have to follow that pace. My oldest took 13 months going year round to get through B because I often needed to go more slowly than the schedule in the TM. Don't move on to the next lesson until your child has actually mastered the concept and stop worrying about trying to finish the book by some arbitrary date.

 

Don't dump a perfectly good program without first trying to go through it more slowly.

[SnMomof7]

CLE? It's very traditional, spiral, focuses on basics, introduces concepts slowly and logically. Cheaper too! :). Worktext based. Goes through to 8th so if you like it, you can stick with it too :).

[EKS]

We used RS B and I honestly don't remember anything about fractals!

 

That aside, I found RS B to be a more gentle and developmentally appropriate approach to 1st grade math than Singapore PM 1A and B.  After making it most of the way through RS B, we moved back to Singapore (2A) and it was smooth sailing from there.

 

I agree with Crimson Wife.  You may be moving too fast.  It is also ok to modify lessons so that they suit your daughter better. 

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

Ahhhh I had just made up my mind to use Rightstart. I give up. Every time I think I'm decided on a program/curriculum, I hear something that changes my mind.

[Goldilocks]

I didn't start B with my children until they were 7 (or almost 7).

 

If you begin RS A in kindergarten and complete one book a year, you will finish the program in 4th grade. (Not including RS geometry).

 

You may want to just wait on B for a little bit and play the math games.

 

I like the way the topics circle around. Even though it may jump from learning about money to learning to tell time then back to addition, the concepts are all the same--looking at numbers in groups of ones and fives and tens.  I think it is brilliant!

 

Now that I am on my 4th time through the books I feel ok about skipping a few things.  The fractals lesson is fine to skip.

[ajfries]

I'm struggling with getting Right Start A done, too. It jumps around a lot & it's just getting to be too much for me to prepare for as the teacher. We're relying heavily on Math Mammoth, which I originally got with the intention of using it to supplement since my DS loves worksheets.

[ajfries]

I didn't start B with my children until they were 7 (or almost 7).

 

If you begin RS A in kindergarten and complete one book a year, you will finish the program in 4th grade. (Not including RS geometry).

 

You may want to just wait on B for a little bit and play the math games.

 

I like the way the topics circle around. Even though it may jump from learning about money to learning to tell time then back to addition, the concepts are all the same--looking at numbers in groups of ones and fives and tens.  I think it is brilliant!

 

Now that I am on my 4th time through the books I feel ok about skipping a few things.  The fractals lesson is fine to skip.

 

 

I think this is what I'll end up doing. Just waiting a bit & starting level B. I think the revised editions also "fixed" many of the common RS complaints.

[alef]

I second the recommendation to try Singapore or Math Mammoth.

[Guest flexgrip]

Thanks everyone, I will look into Singapore, Math Mammoth and CLE.  Any "known drawbacks" of these programs?  After investing in Rightstart (time and money), I would like to have a better understanding before jumping into another program.

[RootAnn]

Have you looked into Math-U-See? It is non-abstract and focuses on one topic (almost to an extreme) starting with Alpha level.

 

CLE will jump around, BTW.  (Love CLE. But the "tight spiral" learning method it uses means it will jump around between subjects - while constantly reviewing the ones it already introduced/taught. My kids, for the most part, need that sort of style. They would get bored with doing addition for weeks before moving onto subtraction before moving onto money or measurement. They would also promptly forget anything that isn't reviewed every couple of days.)

 

 

[MamaHappy]

Rod & Staff is another option to check out. :)

[Aurelia]

Rod and Staff is probably what you're looking for. Mastery based, the first grade book uses worksheets, and it's mostly arithmetic, not abstract concepts. Math Mammoth is also a good program.

 

It does sound like you're going through RS too fast, though. Level B is designed for a 6 or 7 year old, not 5, and an older child will pick up the concepts more quickly. That said, I did use RS B when DD was 5, but we went slower than suggested if she had trouble with a concept. 

[sbgrace]

I, too, think you moved too fast for her age/development. I really love the foundation RS provides. I didn't ever like that I couldn't clearly see "the plan" (where we've been, where we're going, an order/method). It's got one. But I wanted to see it. However, I'm really glad my boys did the early levels. We completed A through 1/2 of C. I gave it up more than once because it just didn't fit me as a teacher at all, but I always came back. I just found the way they cover place value and introduce the early, foundational material is superior to the others I owned, and tried, at the time (math mammoth, singapore).

 

If you want to jump ship, though, I'd stay conceptual if that's important to you. That limits you to Singapore, Math in Focus, Math Mammoth, Miquon (love it, but don't do it...I think it wouldn't be a good fit given what you wrote), MEP. I'm sure there are a few more. For a young child, I think I would pick Math in Focus. It's got a more friendly presentation if nothing else. You will clearly see the plan. It is mastery oriented. Math in Focus is Singapore for US schools. I use it.

 

But, because you own it and it really is a good start, I'd consider going back and working through RS more slowly. Focus on mastering each thing and just trust the program to bring it all together. I think it actually does a good job of that, it just isn't clear to the teacher/parent.

 

But I do understand exactly what's bugging you in the lack of mastery/clear organization. Concrete vs. abstract...well, I think RS shines on concrete representation actually. We always disliked the geometry sections though! Two of us anyway don't have minds that lean in the visual spatial direction.

[NASDAQ]

RS A is kind of a pain.

 

RS B is a first grade program, and a very far-reaching one. If you are doing it with a five-year-old, you are going to have to be very sensitive to the child's development and supplement or slow down as necessary.

[RoundAbout]

Just to offer another perspective for people who might be considering this program.

 

We loved the jumping around in A. I did it as a pre-k program so my DS was 4 - bright but with a minuscule attention span. The jumping around helped to keep him interested and I was excited to introduce so many different topics.

 

Don't remember any huge developmental leaps in B, but there were many times we did only half lessons. B is very, very dense. The abstract learning and lack of drill was a plus for us. The whole reason I started with the program was the lack of writing.

 

The games are the best part of the program IMHO. Some are dumb, but others are brilliant. I think the basics you talk about are covered in the games with RS and the book is not always great about telling you when to do them. I wish there had been more game reminders in B and C.

 

We finished C in September and I've been thrilled with RS. We moved right into Beast Academy from C with no trouble. The only reason we will not stick with the program is that level D looks very slow, and a bit boring compared to B and C, but definitely glad we stuck with it this far. It was a perfect fit for my DS.

 

To the OP, there are a ton of great math programs out there so hope you find something that works for you.

[rachelpants]

Ahhhh I had just made up my mind to use Rightstart. I give up. Every time I think I'm decided on a program/curriculum, I hear something that changes my mind.

 

Don't give up! Get the SECOND edition! It's new and AWESOME! I love it! The teacher's manual is laid out so much better. Look at the sample pdf at the bottom of this page.

http://rightstartmath.com/home-school/second-edition-news

 

They have changed the scope and sequence a bit and there will be Levels: A, B, C, D, E, F & G

 

I watched a webnar about it that explained all the new changes. It is called "RightStartâ„¢ Mathematics First Edition or Second Edition? Which is best for you?"

http://rightstartmath.com/workshops/

 

In the webanr they said that they have listened to the feedback from forums and implemented changes, like more review, etc.   Good luck with whatever you decide! :)

[Mom0012]

Don't give up! Get the SECOND edition! It's new and AWESOME! I love it! The teacher's manual is laid out so much better. Look at the sample pdf at the bottom of this page.

http://rightstartmath.com/home-school/second-edition-news

 

They have changed the scope and sequence a bit and there will be Levels: A, B, C, D, E, F & G

 

I watched a webnar about it that explained all the new changes. It is called "RightStartâ„¢ Mathematics First Edition or Second Edition? Which is best for you?"

http://rightstartmath.com/workshops/

 

In the webanr they said that they have listened to the feedback from forums and implemented changes, like more review, etc.   Good luck with whatever you decide! :)

 

That's great that they've added more review.  I hope they've added more systematic written practice as well.  If that had been scheduled into the program when I was using it, I'm sure I would have stuck with RS through elementary.  I used RS A - C with my dd and she did well with it, but we started supplementing with CLE after that and then dropped RS.  While I have no regrets about using RS for K, 1st and part of 2nd grade because I think it laid a great foundation, I was much happier with CLE for 3rd.  While my dd did well with RS, she did much better with CLE.  That's just our experience, of course.  I have a good friend who used RS all the way through and her kids did very well with it.

[mohop]

Math Mammoth seems to fit the bill of what you are looking for.  It's also relatively cheap, which would matter to me if I had already spent a bunch of money on Right Start.  You could supplement with appropriate Right Start activities. 

[PeterPan]

I have been using the Right Start Math (Level A and some Level B ) with my 5 year old daughter.  Unfortunately this program has been a severe disappointment.  Here are the issues:

 

1) The program jumps around from topic to topic.  There is no logical progression and mastery for a child to focus on.  You start learning a topic then jump to another topic and another

2) The program introduces many mathematical concepts that are advanced / abstract such as fractals which seem to be inappropriate for young learners

3) The focus is not on the basics but rather on the abstract and this can easily frustrate my young daughter

4) Level B gets the children adding four digit numbers without having them master the basic addition principles (i.e. daughter relies heavily on the abacus)

5) At least for Level A and what we have done in Level B, the games are not the greatest

 

I find my daughter stuggling with this program.  In contrast, she excelled with the Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading.  That program is much more focused (no writing, just reading) and very progressive.  Everything you learn is built upon the previous lessons.

 

So what I am looking for is a math program better suited for my daughter.  What program is:

 

1) Focused on the BASICS not abstract

2) Is progressive and doesn't jump around

 

Suprisingly, my daughter likes to do worksheets so if the program uses them that is fine.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thank You

I'm going to take a different tack here and suggest that I don't think you really understand RS yet.  Your point 4 misses the whole POINT of how RS teaches math.  When you say principles, what you really mean is *algorithm*, and there's a difference.  RS is going to have them use manipulatives until the dc DISCOVERS the algorithm (how to do the written) for herself.  When people say you're going too fast, what they're saying is you're trying to go so fast that you don't want to slow down and LET THAT HAPPEN.  It's NOT a fast process or something you can rush.  She's young for the materials.  My dd did level B at that age also, so I've btdt.  You might find it helpful to do just a couple problems a day using the stations game for a while until things click.  Play more of the games that aren't scheduled that she can do.  We enjoyed playing some of the solitaire versions of games together at that age, so you might try that.  

 

Rushing ahead and teaching the math by rote doesn't necessarily help them UNDERSTAND it better.  You got a great program.  You just need to slow down and let it work.

[skeeterbug]

I supplemented RS B with MM for awhile. It gave me a break from teaching RS, gave my son extra practice and allowed him to focus on one thing at a time. I always found when we went back to RS that things clicked better. If she likes worksheets, take a break from RS and try MM for awhile, but don't give up on RS completely. With MM you can choose the topics you want to focus on.

 

I started my oldest with RS B. I was excited to start my next son with A. I was surprised to find I hated teaching A. I put it aside and am now starting B with him at 6yo. I just got the 2nd edition and after looking through it I am looking forward to it, enough so that I'm going to try the 2nd edition of A with my 4yo when she's ready.

 

BTW, on the yahoo group in the files section there is a file that explains how to do the fractals lesson in a homeschool. The lesson in the manual was designed for a classroom.

[PeterPan]

I started my oldest with RS B. I was excited to start my next son with A. I was surprised to find I hated teaching A. I put it aside and am now starting B with him at 6yo.

Kids just vary.  My dd at newly 5 tested out of A but got swamped in B right about the place the op is.  We went back, did A quickly, then plowed forward.  I enjoyed A for the sweet simplicity of it.  My ds has some language issues, so he's newly 5 and has given me funny looks even with A.  I definitely would not hesitate to put a 6 yo straight into B if he seems ready.