Keeping kids humble

[Rachel]

How do you keep your kids humble, especially if they are advanced in certain areas?

 

My nearly 6 year old began reading early this year.  He went from not reading at all in January, to about 4th/5th grade level by September.  I haven't tried to gauge his reading level lately, but he can read almost anything he wants.

 

He is a sensitive child and has been since he was quite young.  He is also a perfectionist.  We have complimented him and praised him on his reading skills, just like we do when he learns anything new.  He is excited that he can read and not overly proud.  With the exception of his grandparents he doesn't show off with his reading, he just reads all the time.  He can't see words without reading them.  He is semi-aware that other 5 year olds don't read like him, yet.  

 

Other people are beginning to notice how well he reads and comment on his skills.  Just last night the babysitter offered to read him a book and was shocked when he read it to her.  At first she thought he just had it memorized.  She is an education major and spent the summer working at a camp reading with young elementary students.  She kept going on about how his skills were compared to the kids she had worked with.  This is kind of typical of conversations we have been having with his Sunday school teacher, the librarian, random grocery store workers, etc.  I try not to have these conversations in front of him (he was asleep when the sitter was talking about it), but it isn't always possible.

 

I'm proud of him and it is impressive, but I don't want it going to his head.  Although he is way ahead of other kindergartners now, eventually they will start to catch up. Any tips on how to keep him humble?

[Barbara H]

I'm not finding it with a quick Google but I've read some research before that said that arrogance is not that common of a problem for gifted kids. Maybe someone else has a link. While we may have this "don't get a big head" idea the reality is that this isn't that big of a problem for most kids. Being outside of school helps with that too.

 

It can be helpful to start regularly noticing the strengths and hard work of other people. It doesn't have to be all academic things - it can be noticing a person's lovely garden or how well they play the guitar. Just the idea that he hears that lots of people work hard to get good at a lot of things.

 

If you think he's hearing a lot of that reading talk I would directly ask him about it - has he noticed what people say and what does he think about it.

[Rachel]

I'm not finding it with a quick Google but I've read some research before that said that arrogance is not that common of a problem for gifted kids. Maybe someone else has a link. While we may have this "don't get a big head" idea the reality is that this isn't that big of a problem for most kids. Being outside of school helps with that too.

 

It can be helpful to start regularly noticing the strengths and hard work of other people. It doesn't have to be all academic things - it can be noticing a person's lovely garden or how well they play the guitar. Just the idea that he hears that lots of people work hard to get good at a lot of things.

 

If you think he's hearing a lot of that reading talk I would directly ask him about it - has he noticed what people say and what does he think about it.

That's good to know.  I'll see if I can turn up some of that research.  He is not arrogant now, I'm worried that overhearing people being impressed could cause him to become arrogant about it.

 

I'm certain he is hearing some of the reading talk, he is very observant and little gets past him.  It never occurred to me to ask him how he feels about it.

[Rachel]

This is tricky.  Many people don't bat a lash if a kid brags about his/her running skills or throwing skills. 

I won't be bragging on either of those skills any time soon.

[MinivanMom]

How do you keep your kids humble, especially if they are advanced in certain areas?

 

*snip*

 

I'm proud of him and it is impressive, but I don't want it going to his head.  Although he is way ahead of other kindergartners now, eventually they will start to catch up. Any tips on how to keep him humble?

 

Piano lessons.

 

I'm sort of joking, but really nothing instills humility like having to struggle and work at something that doesn't come naturally.

 

We went through this with our oldest. Everyone made a big deal out of how well she read. It went to her head for a little while. She even went through a phase where whenever we had company she would go grab the thickest book she could find and sit down to read it in a very public area . . . which prompted people to take notice and praise her. We ignored it and continued to parent her the way we always have: only praising occasionally, focusing our praise on effort, and making the praise specific. We never compared her to others. The situation faded away as everyone else learned how to read and her giftedness was no longer so readily apparent. It helps that we homeschool so there aren't that many opportunities for academic comparisons at this point. Dd stopped showing off when it no longer garnered attention, and she has grown into a perfectly nice, humble kid. This too shall pass . . . as long as you don't make too big a deal out of it.

[SKL]

My youngest also bloomed early (academically) and has maintained her lead.  She has never been one to blab about it, though.  Since she has a close-in-age sister with very different talents, she was aware at age 4 that some kids to x before y, and other kids to y before x.  She is also sensitive to the fact that bragging can hurt others' feelings.  Most people would not know she is gifted if they didn't ask both her age and her grade.  She is proud of what she can do, but equally aware of the fact that everyone does *something* better than she does.

 

When people started talking about how wonderful it was when she started doing xyz, I'd say something like "yes, we all have different talents" as a hint that I don't like to talk up one talent over another around my kids.

 

My youngest was behind her sister in almost all physical skills, most notably bike riding.  She's always had stage fright that stops her from displaying whatever talents she does have.  So as a whole package, she really isn't that different from everyone else.  I have never needed to worry about her being "humble" enough so far.  Maybe someday.

[lewelma]

Give him harder books.  Make him always work hard.

 

My older simply did not believe others' comments on his skills because nothing ever came easily to him. I ramped it up until it was hard, and I did it in all subjects except history read-alouds with dad.  Little did he know that he was working 4-6 grades ahead.  I just never told him.  He knows now how far ahead he is, but at age 13 he can be humble because he knows what hard work is.

 

Ruth in NZ

[kiwik]

ds6 is constantly telling me he is the best at maths in his class even though many of the kids are nearly a year older. I keep telling him I am going to make sure he is in a class where he isn't the best next year. I was also quite happy he wasn't in the too spelling group last term (he is now) and am not worried his writing is "only" average for age.

[Luckymama]

I have found that the truly gifted kids are not the braggarts. Perhaps their parents do what we do and talk about how working hard and challenging oneself is very important, along with the old "everyone has something that comes easy to them."

[Dmmetler]

I agree with the above-but I'll also say that by about age 5, my DD had learned to hide her light under a bushel, to not "brag" and to not "show off", because she'd gotten so many NEGATIVE responses from others (she was an extremely early reader-she was very literally reading signs out loud before she could walk, and was doing long strings of mental addition calculations at age 2-both tend to attract attention in the grocery store, where words and numbers prevail).

 

She also struggles physically (IE-she finally got her back walkover in tumbling, after three YEARS of work) so we've stressed that everyone has areas they're strong, everyone has areas they need to work, and that people who are really, really good at something probably have worked harder than most, because that's why it looks easy. We've tried to get and keep her academics at an appropriate level where she's challenged so it's not too easy and so she's not always getting everything right.

 

If anything, it's been harder to keep her positive about her abilities, instead of seeing herself as broken because she doesn't think the way other people do and because she's not interested in the things most kids her age are interested in. It's taken real effort to give her opportunities to stretch herself AND to see that others are at the same ability level or even higher to make her feel good about herself. Bragging really doesn't enter into it.

 

 

[Uff Da!]

I don't always remember to do it, but waving a hand and saying something like, "Yeh, we have a lot of early bloomers in this family" like its no big deal seems to work when others start talking.  The measuring sticks seem to disappear somewhat and it makes it so its just something quirky with our family tree.  And I think its OK for my kids know that this is normal in our family.  They can look to the experiences of older cousins and the adults for affirmation and a bit of insight as to what's coming.

 

I also think focusing on hard work and pointing out the hard work of others seems to help.  I like Andrew Kern's statement that worth isn't determined by how something is measured, it's about whether something is good, true and beautiful (paraphrasing here).  I'm trying to teach my kids this.  Sometimes I bring up that lecture and how eye opening it was for me with other parents.  I am so tired of comparisons and measuring sticks.  It divides.

[mathnerd]

There was a lot of negativity from the other kids in DS's K class last year because he is like a walking database with a knack for trivia and details and seemed to be showing off while it was just natural for him to talk incessantly (and we encourage him to do so) about things that he knew. He too quickly learnt to hide his light under a bushel because he was losing friends due to envy.

 

My gifted DS, in addition to being humble is also very empathetic and with not show off in front of other kids in order to not hurt their feelings. The most obvious case was when he was provided accelerated work for differentiation at school and he stubbornly refused to touch it because other kids felt sorry that they did not have the more "fun" work packet.

 

I agree with Ruth about setting the bar very high for your child that they don't even know what the norm is. From a very early age, we have put DS in environments surrounded by kids who are leagues ahead of him for his enrichment activities and he interacts with mentors who are brilliant at what they do and he looks up to them. He goes to weekend chess school where at 4 years old, he had to slog for months to get to his first checkmate in a game - he is improving, but it is still a slog week after week for him. Same for sport classes - he is in sports that do not come naturally to him in addition to sports that he excels at. Same with learning instruments - what looked like fun and easy has now morphed into "tricky and difficult" as the bar gradually creeps up - it is a slog to get daily practice in and master new techniques, but he slogs on. 

 

So, surround your kid with others who are better than him (and mentors who are good at what they do) and set high standards for him and work with him to keep up his optimism and positivity. That will keep him grounded for life.

 

 

[jar7709]

 

If anything, it's been harder to keep her positive about her abilities, instead of seeing herself as broken because she doesn't think the way other people do and because she's not interested in the things most kids her age are interested in. It's taken real effort to give her opportunities to stretch herself AND to see that others are at the same ability level or even higher to make her feel good about herself. Bragging really doesn't enter into it.

 

Same here.  DS is extremely hard on himself, and DD doesn't yet see that she's also "gifted" because her gifts are not as immediately obvious as her brother's.  It's kind of a tightrope walk, but humbleness has not been an issue in the slightest. 

[quark]

Give him harder books.  Make him always work hard.

 

My older simply did not believe others' comments on his skills because nothing ever came easily to him. I ramped it up until it was hard, and I did it in all subjects except history read-alouds with dad.  Little did he know that he was working 4-6 grades ahead.  I just never told him.  He knows now how far ahead he is, but at age 13 he can be humble because he knows what hard work is.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Triple liking and triple agreeing. We expect hard work and make it obvious and "normal" enough that he expects hard work too. He knows he is ahead as well but has no idea how ahead. No idea that he could be doing easier work if he wanted to. And is excited enough by challenge that he doesn't want easier work. We read biographies when we can to show how hard someone worked and how hard they fought difficult life circumstances to get where they are/ were.

 

He also has at least a couple of friends who are even more accelerated than he is. And a couple of younger kids at math circle working 2-3 years ahead of where he is (i.e. 7-8 grade levels ahead while he is 4-6 grade levels ahead). Enough there to keep him grounded.

 

But always, a big appreciative hug at night for working hard that day and being his lovely self and reminding him that he means the world to his parents just for being who he is (not for being smart etc). I don't believe in over-praising for academics but I also don't believe in withholding praise for being a kindhearted, helpful child.

[Arcadia]

  Although he is way ahead of other kindergartners now, eventually they will start to catch up. Any tips on how to keep him humble?

Kids may or may not "even out".  not sure if you have read this thread

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/477455-all-kids-even-out-by-third-grade-math-subject-too/

 

Humility is a value that we want to cultivate in our kids and is actually part of our extended family culture.  It is a value that is independent of a child's ability.

 

 

He also has at least a couple of friends who are even more accelerated than he is. And a couple of younger kids at math circle working 2-3 years ahead of where he is (i.e. 7-8 grade levels ahead while he is 4-6 grade levels ahead). Enough there to keep him grounded.

 

:iagree:  same scenario at my neighborhood.  Funny thing is my kids German class seems to be filled with gifted and 2E kids both last year and this year.

off-topic: we were at a standing room only information session by CTY JHU and the lady was saying the summer camp at Stanford is always sold out early on the first day. My older happily made a chef hat with the brochure and wore it during the session :lol:

[SKL]

I have an average kid and an advanced kid, and it has occurred to me that sometimes in my concern over the average kid's feelings of inferiority, I unwittingly allow *her* to be a bit braggy.  She does not have stage fright and doesn't mind showing off how well she does cartwheels, how fast she runs, etc.  Being the littlest 2nd-grader by far, I assume she feels a need to show the others she can hold her own.  Thankfully, as mentioned earlier, this is not frowned upon at her age.  But she is learning that it hurts her sister's feelings, so she tones it down for the most part.

 

A couple of weeks ago we were at a party where a group of young visitors, encouraged by their mothers, were showing off their piano-playing skills.  All of them were older than my kids and none of them could hold a candle to either of my kids' piano ability.  LOL.  (Not that my kids are so great, but most people don't introduce their kids to piano as young as I did.)  An auntie who knows my kids was pressing them to go play the piano so they could get a piece of the action.  Both of my kids refused.  However, they did both play the piano in church at the 2012 Christmas program and plan to do so again this year.  Different context.

 

I was brought up to avoid talking about things I'm proud of.  I will answer questions honestly, but never volunteer stuff about my kids' talents IRL just to get a "wow" reaction.  My kids presumably follow along.

[Rachel]

Thanks for all your responses.  I think we are on the right track and perhaps my worry is a bit misplaced.  We do try to challenge him in other areas that do not come as naturally.  I do present him with reading material that he finds challenging, while trying to balance out the appropriateness of material for a kindergartner.  We do talk about how some people are better at certain things than others and some things come more easily to others.  We also talk about how some people have to work really hard to get better at certain things.

 

 

Kids may or may not "even out".  not sure if you have read this thread

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/477455-all-kids-even-out-by-third-grade-math-subject-too/

 

 

Yes, I have seen that thread, I need to read through it again.  In my original post by "evening out" I meant more along the lines that other kindergartners will start reading too and there won't be such a gap of him reading several grade levels ahead while they aren't reading at all.  Strangers won't be as shocked by his reading ability in a couple years simply because they won't think it's weird that a 2nd grader is reading certain signs or headlines like they are when a kindergartner does.

[Rachel]

I have an average kid and an advanced kid, and it has occurred to me that sometimes in my concern over the average kid's feelings of inferiority, I unwittingly allow *her* to be a bit braggy.  She does not have stage fright and doesn't mind showing off how well she does cartwheels, how fast she runs, etc.  Being the littlest 2nd-grader by far, I assume she feels a need to show the others she can hold her own.  Thankfully, as mentioned earlier, this is not frowned upon at her age.  But she is learning that it hurts her sister's feelings, so she tones it down for the most part.

 

A couple of weeks ago we were at a party where a group of young visitors, encouraged by their mothers, were showing off their piano-playing skills.  All of them were older than my kids and none of them could hold a candle to either of my kids' piano ability.  LOL.  (Not that my kids are so great, but most people don't introduce their kids to piano as young as I did.)  An auntie who knows my kids was pressing them to go play the piano so they could get a piece of the action.  Both of my kids refused.  However, they did both play the piano in church at the 2012 Christmas program and plan to do so again this year.  Different context.

 

I was brought up to avoid talking about things I'm proud of.  I will answer questions honestly, but never volunteer stuff about my kids' talents IRL just to get a "wow" reaction.  My kids presumably follow along.

Good point about average kids.  My middle child is 3, I don't know yet if she will be advanced.  She does like to show off on certain things and brag, so far it is just cute, but I could easily see it becoming a problem if we don't try to keep it in check.

 

Off topic, but at what age did you start your kids playing piano?  My son is interested in playing both the piano and the trumpet.  He will be 6 at the end of the month.  A friend will be giving us her keyboard when they remodel their office, eventually we would like to get a piano.  I started piano at age 7 but didn't stick to it for more than a couple years then played clarinet up through college.

[Arcadia]

  In my original post by "evening out" I meant more along the lines that other kindergartners will start reading too and there won't be such a gap of him reading several grade levels ahead while they aren't reading at all.  Strangers won't be as shocked by his reading ability in a couple years simply because they won't think it's weird that a 2nd grader is reading certain signs or headlines like they are when a kindergartner does.

 

I was thinking more in terms of 7 or 8 year olds happily reading in the adult non-fiction section of the library. After all my regular library put the nice Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, Martin Gardner books there and none in the kids non-fiction.

 

Kids start piano and/or violin at 3 years old in my neighborhood. Some go for Suzuki method and some go for the traditional ABRSM way. My kids aren't interested in formal piano lessons so I didn't bother signing them up for any.  I do have a piano. I did trumpet at 8 but piano is my main instrument.  Clarinet is my hubby's main instrument.

[SKL]

Off topic, but at what age did you start your kids playing piano?  My son is interested in playing both the piano and the trumpet.  He will be 6 at the end of the month.  A friend will be giving us her keyboard when they remodel their office, eventually we would like to get a piano.  I started piano at age 7 but didn't stick to it for more than a couple years then played clarinet up through college.

 

My kids started "formal lessons" (individual) in piano at age 4.5-ish.  They also did about half a year of guitar at age 5, but the teacher quit and none of their other teachers has had both piano and guitar capabilities.

[SKL]

I have friends who come over for Christmas, and they have a daughter the same age as my youngest.  The last time they came - just before the girls' 6th birthday - this little girl's mom would stop her from doing or saying anything impressive, whispering "don't show off."  I didn't think the child was doing anything wrong - just being a kid.  These folks are from a different culture, so maybe that's part of it.  I wonder whether they were terribly offended that I didn't tell my kids to stop playing their piano or doing amateur gymnastics to get their sillies out.  These are things they do for fun and relaxation - a normal part of their daily life - and in my own house, I don't restrict that no matter who is visiting.  When I was a kid, we did the same.  I also didn't cringe the year before when my almost-5yo looked at a Christmas tag and said "that says Shuktara" without missing a beat.  She wasn't showing off, she was just remarking on what she saw.  Being able to read early is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

In fact, Miss E is only recently coming to me (privately) to inform me that some of the kids in school who are older can't do some of the things she can do.  I think she is intrigued more than anything else.  When she brings it up, I remind her that she must not mention comparisons in front of people, because it causes hurt feelings.

[Rachel]

I was thinking more in terms of 7 or 8 year olds happily reading in the adult non-fiction section of the library. After all my regular library put the nice Carl Sagan, Brian Greene, Martin Gardner books there and none in the kids non-fiction.

 

A couple months ago I returned all our library books, but we didn't have time to check out anything new.  Later that night my son picked a random parenting book off our shelf and started reading it.  He read a couple chapters before it registered what he was reading.  Since then I've been better about not returning all the "kid" books at once.

[SandyKC]

We taught our DS to say, "It's easy *for me*,"  very early on.  We had always explained to him that some things are easy for some people and other things are difficult, and everyone has strengths and weaknesses.  We pointed out things (like painting) that others do exceptionally well even if they can't do really well with math.  Math is easy for DS--really easy--but there are a lot of things that aren't really easy.  By keeping it "real" and grounded as to what is easy for DS versus what is difficult for him and easy for other people, it worked well for keeping him in check with humility. ;-)  I think it's a wise question to ask and consider early on! :-D

[Donna]

Keeping dd humble was initially a big concern for me. For awhile I tried to play interference for her with people after a performance so she would not hear the comments from people but I found it impossible to always be in the right place at the right time. When I wasn't good at changing the subject quickly, we discussed afterward on the drive home why people made comments they did and why they might perceive her abilities the way they did. 

 

At home I went at it from a number of angles (many similar to those others have discussed)....talking about strengths in others (especially those with strengths people might not easily see or make a big deal about like kindness, happiness in the midst of hard times, ability to organize, etc...), getting to know kids with similar or even more advanced abilities, praising effort rather than things that come easily, and being very specific in my praise so rather than a "You're a great violinist," I would say something about her performance on a certain section I know she worked hard to get the phrasing right on or a particular shift that might have taken some practice to be in tune.

 

I work with developmentally delayed kids so now and then I'll share my joy about a two year old taking her first steps after multiple orthopedic surgeries or a little boy with Down's Syndrome who figured out how to climb the stairs. My kids don't know my patients personally usually so it is anonymous to them but I want them to know that certain things are worth celebrating even if they aren't advanced.

 

My dd is a very grounded kid. Maybe it's because she has two big brothers who don't cut her any slack, maybe it's her personality, or maybe it's because she has her own personal measuring stick where she compares herself to adults she admires rather than other kids so she has high expectations for herself. I don't know. 

[Mommy22alyns]

Give him harder books.  Make him always work hard.

 

My older simply did not believe others' comments on his skills because nothing ever came easily to him. I ramped it up until it was hard, and I did it in all subjects except history read-alouds with dad.  Little did he know that he was working 4-6 grades ahead.  I just never told him.  He knows now how far ahead he is, but at age 13 he can be humble because he knows what hard work is.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

This.

 

Rebecca was an extremely talented, high achieving old L4 gymnast.  She's moved up to new L4 and isn't scoring as well because the skills are harder.  She's still overall the top girl in her level for the gym.  It's hit her hard after last year, but she's having to learn some important lessons.

[boscopup]

My oldest hasn't been a problem at all. What annoys me is OTHER people's comments on how smart he is, right in front of him! One mom would say, "<DS1's name> is so smart, I'll bet he knows!" She wasn't meaning it in a bad way either. She just recognized that he was smart and knew a lot of stuff. I just hate it when people do that though. It would have been better to say, "<DS1's name>, do you know?" Leave the "smart" part out of it! Around other kids, he hasn't been a problem at all. He typically doesn't pull out the geek card unless he's around another geek. :lol:

 

My youngest may be a problem, but he's not humble in any way. :tongue_smilie: Granted, he's only 4. So it's not like he's typically trying to brag or show off. He does things like normal and talks a LOT, but he knows he's cute. He's very occasionally "bragged" about knowing how to do something that DS2 can't do. DS3 started reading CVC words at age 3. He's 4.5 now and reading at a mid-first grade level pretty easily. He tackles new words easier than DS2 does. DS2 is also around a first grade level of reading, but doesn't pick it up as quickly. In some ways, DS2 can read a little better, and in other ways DS3 can read a little better. So it gets a little challenging sometimes, but they're learning to live with it. And sometimes DS3 helps DS2 read something, and they're both happy. :grouphug:

 

DS2 is good at math, but he doesn't show it off at all. In fact, I'll bet most people who are around him regularly have no idea how good he is at math.

 

All 3 are playing hockey, where IQ doesn't matter that much. ;) DS1 was the slowest skater when he first started. That entire year, he did every move perfectly... just really slow. That turned out to be a good thing though! A few years later, he's as fast as the other kids, and the technique is solid. But at least he had that couple years of not being a great player. Now he's a 2nd year goalie and is doing very well. He even surprised DH this weekend during all-star tryouts by being one of the faster skaters during speed drills, most of those skaters not wearing goalie gear like DS1 was. So he's starting to get pretty good. If he makes the team, it will be the 2nd goalie though, not 1st. Another kid was clearly better. But that is good for him - he's seeing that he has to work hard to be a better goalie. He is constantly having to work on new moves, strengthen new muscles, etc. He's a good goalie now, but he's not bragging about it at all. He's been the weaker player, so it doesn't even cross his mind to brag now that he's better (and if he were playing one of the other positions, I don't think he'd be as strong as many of those kids... goalie just happens to be just the right fit for him). DS2 just started hockey this year, and like his big brother, he's slow. Actually, he's even slower and not really doing the techniques properly, so not that much like his big brother.  :tongue_smilie: We're still working on getting him to listen to (and understand) the coach. He's clearly the weakest skater on the team. No chance of bragging there. DS3 isn't on a team yet. He's doing well for his age, but he's not dazzling everyone by any means. I suspect he'll be average. Of course, he could surprise me like DS1 did this year. :D