What age (if ever) would you allow William Shakespeare's - xpost

[Excelsior! Academy]

 

Romeo and Juilet with Leonardo Dicaprio and Claire Danes.

 

 

Eta: for Shakespeare study. I was thinking of having my older dc watch the older movie version, this, and the new one coming out this summer to compare and contrast all three. Dh is wary. What says the hive?

[regentrude]

My 15 y/o watched it and loved it.

 

What exactly are you concerned about?

[Excelsior! Academy]

I am not, dh is. I am re-watching as I type. I am thinking for a 16 almost 17 and 13 almost 14.

[regentrude]

The film is PG-13. So, I would not have any problem letting a 13 year old watch. I find that the ratings are usually fairly conservative. Now, if it was R-rated, I might preview.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Thank you.

[Ravin]

I would let my 9yo. Watch it.

[Ravin]

Dp

[Jenny in Florida]

Well, for the record, I cannot stand that film. I've never managed to sit through it all the way to the end. I just find it annoying.

 

However, in terms of age appropriateness, my only concern would be about the violence. As I recall from the couple of times I've tried to watch it, there are some unnecessarily bloody/gory sequences that might be upsetting to a pre-teen.

[Lizzie in Ma]

It's PG-13, I would let them watch it. 

Except for the fact that it is the ONE play I absolutely despise and you couldn't pay me to ever sit through it again in any format.  Much Ado though, never gets old.  Midsummer is sublime, Hamlet, Henry V, The entire Hollow Crown series, A Winter's Tale, Taming of the Shrew, well you get the idea, pretty much anything but R&J.  I have this secret fantasy that he didn't write that one. ;)

[Maura in NY]

I'm curious, Lizzie -- Have you seen Joss Whedon's Much Ado -- Rated PG-13? I went with friends and a group of teens, all Shakespeare & Whedon fans -- and we (at least all 3 adults, and most of the teens...) were pretty darn uncomfortable with the sex. I guess you can show anything, as long as there isn't skin exposed. (Whedon himself calls it "the sexiest thing I've ever done, and that includes having sex.") I talked to the teens about it afterward, comparing it with the much loved Brannagh/Thompson version, which has much more nudity -- but is much more innocent, if that makes sense. 

[Lizzie in Ma]

I'm curious, Lizzie -- Have you seen Joss Whedon's Much Ado -- Rated PG-13? I went with friends and a group of teens, all Shakespeare & Whedon fans -- and we (at least all 3 adults, and most of the teens...) were pretty darn uncomfortable with the sex. I guess you can show anything, as long as there isn't skin exposed. (Whedon himself calls it "the sexiest thing I've ever done, and that includes having sex.") I talked to the teens about it afterward, comparing it with the much loved Brannagh/Thompson version, which has much more nudity -- but is much more innocent, if that makes sense. 

 

Yup, seen it, adored it, pre-ordered the blu-ray.  Didn't bring the kids because we knew it was going to be racy.  We do love the Branagh version as well as the David Tennant one, Emma Thompson will always be Beatrice for us.

On that note, who knew Don John could be played that sexy!!!!

[regentrude]

Slightly on a tangent: wouldn't a more racy production actually do Shakespeare more justice?

We have been conditioned to think of Shakespeare as this sophisticated bard with this refined English - when, in fact, he wrote to entertain the masses and his plays are full of very lewd jokes and innuendo. If it did not sound so "classic" to our ears because we associate the English of the period with high literature that is difficult to read, we'd see many passages as quite vulgar.

[Jenny in Florida]

Slightly on a tangent: wouldn't a more racy production actually do Shakespeare more justice?

We have been conditioned to think of Shakespeare as this sophisticated bard with this refined English - when, in fact, he wrote to entertain the masses and his plays are full of very lewd jokes and innuendo. If it did not sound so "classic" to our ears because we associate the English of the period with high literature that is difficult to read, we'd see many passages as quite vulgar.

Yep.

 

I always tell my kids that Shakespeare was writing the blockbuster entertainment of his day. He wasn't penning high-falutin' literature. He was creating entertainment that would work for a broad cross-section of his society.

 

I'm frequently a little baffled when people are suprised to find -- gasp! -- sex in these plays.

 

That said, my kids' favorite movie for a while when they were both preschoolers was the Midsummer with Kevin Kline as Bottom. (My then-three-year-old son used to call him "Donkey Boy.") They've been attending live Shakespearean performances for as long as any of us can remember, and each has had his or her own season ticket for the local Shakespeare Festival since about age eight. We all saw the new Much Ado together recently, and I don't even remember any of us taking note of it being especially racy. We all enjoyed it a lot.

[regentrude]

I'm frequently a little baffled when people are suprised to find -- gasp! -- sex in these plays.

 

I am not a history expert, but I would also suspect the societal views about sex have been greatly affected both by the Puritans and by the Victorian age, and the attitudes in Elizabethan England may have been somewhat different.

[Laura Corin]

I am not a history expert, but I would also suspect the societal views about sex have been greatly affected both by the Puritans and by the Victorian age, and the attitudes in Elizabethan England may have been somewhat different.

 

I was listening to a radio programme that talked about how what we now consider swear words (to do with sex and bodily functions), for example, were not so considered in the medieval and early modern period.  The taboo words of the period were related to religion.  Thomas More's writings about Luther, for example, are highly scatological.  

 

L

[Garga]

What are your dh's objections? If we know what he doesn't like we can better assess if it would be a good fit for your family. The violence? The young teens having sex? The suicide? The sneaking around?

[regentrude]

I was listening to a radio programme that talked about how what we now consider swear words (to do with sex and bodily functions), for example, were not so considered in the medieval and early modern period.  The taboo words of the period were related to religion.  Thomas More's writings about Luther, for example, are highly scatological.  

 

Luther himself was using rather crude language. His famous saying "Aus einem verzagten Arsch faehrt selten ein froehlicher Furz" translates into: "A happy fart rarely comes from an uptight ass."

[mommymilkies]

I would let my 9yo. Watch it.

I did. No big deal. They don't like kissing, so they opted to close their eyes for those parts.

[regentrude]

What are your dh's objections? If we know what he doesn't like we can better assess if it would be a good fit for your family. The violence? The young teens having sex? The suicide? The sneaking around?

But wouldn't objections to any of the bolded eliminate the study of the very play altogether? Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet *is* about young teens (Julia is 13!) sneaking around behind their parents' back against their parents' will and ending up committing suicide, with other people being killed in the process.

[Garga]

But wouldn't objections to any of the bolded eliminate the study of the very play altogether? Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet *is* about young teens (Julia is 13!) sneaking around behind their parents' back against their parents' will and ending up committing suicide, with other people being killed in the process.

Yes! True! I'm curious about the dh's objections.

[plath]

I would have no issues with it with your children's age.  You're reading the play, so the "controversial" material is already in their minds.  I totally agree with regentrude's assessment.  :)

[Excelsior! Academy]

What are your dh's objections? If we know what he doesn't like we can better assess if it would be a good fit for your family. The violence? The young teens having sex? The suicide? The sneaking around?

 

In this particular version I think it is Mercutio's cross dressing and possibly the violence. He is concerned about nudity, but usually only the gratuitous, in your face kind.

 

This is the first year that he has even wanted them to study Shakespeare. Before this year he was worried about maturity. This particular play is one that we studied in middle school, so I thought it be would be a good intro piece. I watched it last night and he is watching with me tonight so I will see what his reaction will be.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

When we watched Much Ado About Nothing with David Tennant and Catherine Tate we had to decide if we'd show all of the scene where Hero is impersonated. It is more than just suggestive but not graphic iykwim. I decided that since the issue of unfaithfulness was at the heart of the conflict we wouldn't skip it.

[Garga]

In this particular version I think it is Mercutio's cross dressing and possibly the violence. He is concerned about nudity, but usually only the gratuitous, in your face kind.

 

This is the first year that he has even wanted them to study Shakespeare. Before this year he was worried about maturity. This particular play is one that we studied in middle school, so I thought it be would be a good intro piece. I watched it last night and he is watching with me tonight so I will see what his reaction will be.

If it would bother him, then it's ok to skip it. The Danes/diCaprio version was a bit weird. I liked it, but it was weird. Maybe a more traditional version would be better.

[Mrs Mungo]

Slightly on a tangent: wouldn't a more racy production actually do Shakespeare more justice?

We have been conditioned to think of Shakespeare as this sophisticated bard with this refined English - when, in fact, he wrote to entertain the masses and his plays are full of very lewd jokes and innuendo. If it did not sound so "classic" to our ears because we associate the English of the period with high literature that is difficult to read, we'd see many passages as quite vulgar.

I very much agree. One town we lived in did "child friendly school productions" during the day and racier adult versions at night.

[Mrs Mungo]

That said, my kids' favorite movie for a while when they were both preschoolers was the Midsummer with Kevin Kline as Bottom.

This is the first movie my son ever sat and watched all the way through. He was 2.

[Jenny in Florida]

This is the first movie my son ever sat and watched all the way through. He was 2.

Nice to know mine weren't the only ones! My kids loved that movie so much that we all ended up dressing as fairies inspired by the film for Halloween the year my kids were six and three.

[swellmomma]

I would have no problem with teens watching it, especially when doing a compare and contrast.  My kids were in elementary school (grade 1 and 2) when the ps they were in had an artist in residence do shakespeare with the kids.  They put on their own rendition of  midsummer night's dream.  ds14 was puck, dd14 was a fairy.  They have enjoyed shakespeare ever since.

I will say most of Shakespeare's stuff that I studied in the past has violence and/or sex, if your dh wants them to study it there will be exposure to both.  We did romeo and juliet in 10th grade, Macbeth in 11th and Othello in 12th.  They all had darker elements to them.  The kids did midsummer as young kids and they didn't make mention of the racy stuff, obviously, but if you are studying the actual play in full it's there.

You could go for the comedies instead where no one dies, but then the sex stuff may be more prevalent like midsummer's.  But also much ado, all's well that ends well, merchant of venice, comedy of errors etc

[Excelsior! Academy]

I would have no problem with teens watching it, especially when doing a compare and contrast. My kids were in elementary school (grade 1 and 2) when the ps they were in had an artist in residence do shakespeare with the kids. They put on their own rendition of midsummer night's dream. ds14 was puck, dd14 was a fairy. They have enjoyed shakespeare ever since.

 

I will say most of Shakespeare's stuff that I studied in the past has violence and/or sex, if your dh wants them to study it there will be exposure to both. We did romeo and juliet in 10th grade, Macbeth in 11th and Othello in 12th. They all had darker elements to them. The kids did midsummer as young kids and they didn't make mention of the racy stuff, obviously, but if you are studying the actual play in full it's there.

 

You could go for the comedies instead where no one dies, but then the sex stuff may be more prevalent like midsummer's. But also much ado, all's well that ends well, merchant of venice, comedy of errors etc

ITA!

[happymomofboys]

I watched it when it was first released when I was in high school, so I was about 16 I guess.  I wouldn't have a problem with my boys watching it whenever we cover the play because, if I recall correctly, it is true to the script despite the modern setting and props and the modern interpretation makes it understandable even to those who don't easily "get" Shakespeare.  I wouldn't use it as a substitute for a more traditional viewing, especially a live theater performance if possible, but I would love to compare and contrast the modern interpretation with the traditional one.  So I would guess if we were to cover it anywhere from late middle school to early high school, I'd be cool with it.

[mommymilkies]

In this particular version I think it is Mercutio's cross dressing and possibly the violence. He is concerned about nudity, but usually only the gratuitous, in your face kind.

 

This is the first year that he has even wanted them to study Shakespeare. Before this year he was worried about maturity. This particular play is one that we studied in middle school, so I thought it be would be a good intro piece. I watched it last night and he is watching with me tonight so I will see what his reaction will be.

If that's your issue, skip it. I see nothing wrong with the cross dressing. It's a costume party, for one, and for two, in original performed Shakespeare ALL of the women were actually cross dressing men or boys. The violence is really a part of the story. If none of that is acceptable for them to be exposed to, I would skip R & J, if not most of Shakespeare.

[VeritasMama]

I watched it when it was first released when I was in high school, so I was about 16 I guess. I wouldn't have a problem with my boys watching it whenever we cover the play because, if I recall correctly, it is true to the script despite the modern setting and props and the modern interpretation makes it understandable even to those who don't easily "get" Shakespeare. I wouldn't use it as a substitute for a more traditional viewing, especially a live theater performance if possible, but I would love to compare and contrast the modern interpretation with the traditional one. So I would guess if we were to cover it anywhere from late middle school to early high school, I'd be cool with it.

I saw this in the theatre with friends when we were 15 or 16. We had read it the year before in school and we were huge Leonardo DiCaprio fans, lol. He was so cute in Growin Pains!

 

We also watched the Zeferelli version from 1968 in English class. I prefer the Zeferelli version, though both were true to the original dialogue.

[Excelsior! Academy]

If that's your issue, skip it. I see nothing wrong with the cross dressing. It's a costume party, for one, and for two, in original performed Shakespeare ALL of the women were actually cross dressing men or boys. The violence is really a part of the story. If none of that is acceptable for them to be exposed to, I would skip R & J, if not most of Shakespeare.

I agree with you and know the history about Shakespearean actors being men. I am the one wanting my dc to watch it. Dh was a bit concerned. He had not watched it since it came out and could not remember the details. I was just answering the question that was asked. Btw, Dh has since watched it and agreed it would be good to watch. His suggestion was to watch the older version first, then read the play, then watch this version.

[mommymilkies]

I agree with you and know the history about Shakespearean actors being men. I am the one wanting my dc to watch it. Dh was a bit concerned. He had not watched it since it came out and could not remember the details. I was just answering the question that was asked. Btw, Dh has since watched it and agreed it would be good to watch. His suggestion was to watch the older version first, then read the play, then watch this version.

That's what we did. It worked out well. :)