Ok, so if your school day is really short... *Updated*

[happymomofboys]

say less than 6 hours, how do you get it all done?

 

Are you schooling 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year?  Are you using curriculum that isn't designed to be used daily for 36 weeks?  Are you taking longer than a year to finish?  Skipping certain subjects entirely?

 

I'm trying to cut down my kid's day, but he's a dawdler and the curriculum we use for most subjects involves a lot of reading and some writing.  He's a strong reader, but easily distracted and takes longer than he should to get through a reading assignment.  He also hates to write, so anything that involves more than writing one word answers (which is just about everything in the 6th grade) takes a small eternity to get him to cooperate and finish.  I have to spread out the reading assignments over the full 5 days or he'd sit there until midnight, because he slows down the more pages he's got ahead of him.  In other words, if he has one chapter of Book A to read and one chapter of Book B, he will read them both faster than if he has two chapters of Book A alone.

 

So I am super curious as to what the trick is to getting everything done in less than 6 hours.

 

UPDATE:  I made many of the changes discussed in this thread, and today ended the first week of our new loop schedule.  It has made such a huge difference in our school days!  My kids love having a whole 45 minutes to an hour per subject.  They love that they don't have to rush through the fun stuff, because we only have to get to six subjects per day.  I thought it would make me feel like we weren't doing enough... but in reality we're doing MORE because our discussions are richer and we have time to really talk about the things they are learning instead of working to check a box.  Electives aren't tacked onto the end of the day to do "if we have time" but are given equal importance in the schedule.  Looking back, we averaged 4 hours in each of the core subjects this week, which I think is pretty good.  My kids learned more and covered more material than they did when we were trying to do 8-10 things a day.  While my oldest still dawdles  :001_rolleyes: , he's had much less to do after school than he was having to do before.  I've moved our weekly history discussion to Monday so that he has the weekend to finish his reading.  All in all, I think we're going to have a good year as long as things work out and we can keep homeschooling.  Thanks for all the help!

[Ravin]

For us it usually comes down to focusing on the important stuff and not trying to do Everything.

[nandmsmom]

We do 3-4 hours a day.  The kids are good at staying on task and are motivated to finish early.  We don't generally do more than 32 weeks a year, 5 days a week.  That's with a full course load.  If he won't stay on task and dawdles, that is your entire issue.  I'm not sure how to give you advice for dawdling.  My kids want to be out playing or doing anything but school.  That's their motivation, but every kid is different.  Not a bad thing, just different.

[Dustybug]

My kids are all still young, so we don't do more than 2-2 1/2 hours per day.  We use curriculum that has short succinct lessons rather than long drawn out ones.  I've found better retention this way as well.

[TarynB]

He's a strong reader, but easily distracted and takes longer than he should to get through a reading assignment.  

 

. . .

 

He also hates to write, so anything that involves more than writing one word answers (which is just about everything in the 6th grade) takes a small eternity

 

Mine prefers to do much of his reading for content subjects (lit, history, science) in his room at night before bed.  The house is quiet, he can focus better, and he seems to retain well.  We then do the related discussion, etc., the next morning.

 

Does everything that says "write this" really have to be written?  Can it be done orally?  Answering short answer questions, longer essay questions, and learning to *write* (i.e., composition) are skills that all require physical writing, obviously.  However, with my DS, a lot of the learning assessment, checking for comprehension, and going into deeper connections can be done much more efficiently by interacting with me verbally.  It took me (a product of traditional public schools) a while to get past the public-schoolish mental block that says all output must be written.  That may be true in a classroom with one teacher and 20 or 30 students to assess - not true in my homeschool.  :coolgleamA:  The efficiency and time saved allows us to linger on more value-added activities.

[coffeegal]

Dawdling is probably the biggest issue. My kids, generally, don't dawdle.

 

DD's daily time frame for 7th:

TOG  ~ 2 hours a day (reading, accountability questions, maps, worksheets, discussion)

Saxon Math ~ 30-45 minutes

Grammar + Spelling ~ 20 minutes of sit down with me

IEW writing ~ 30 minutes

Science ~ 30-45 minutes

Latin ~ 20-30 minutes

 

She spent about 4-5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 36 weeks a year. TOG discussions tended to happen on Saturdays so the younger 3 could watch TV while the older 3 and I talked.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Not to be annoying and simplistic, but it sounds like dawdling and lack of cooperation are bigger problems for you than scheduling to get "everything" in. In your shoes, I would find solutions/strategies for getting your DS to focus. I don't have magic answers because I don't know why he is dawdling, but I will say that we get a lot done in a short period because there is no dawdling. My oldest is only going into 5th, though. He will be going from about 4.5 hours a day to 5.5 hours a day, and this does not include literature reading.

 

As far as effective strategies for getting more done in less time, working skills into content is a big time saver for us here. I don't have them doing nonsense work or things that take lots of time with little payoff (for example, diagramming, yes; rewriting entire incorrect sentences correctly in their grammar book, no).

[Julie Smith]

My kids are younger but, 

 

French is done at bedtime.

Listening to me read our literature book is not done as an early morning snuggle or at night, same with poetry.

The boys reading to me is not considered school and done after school. When depends on the weather and what is happening that day.

 

If I did the above during the school day it would make the day seem much longer. 

[happymomofboys]

Mine prefers to do much of his reading for content subjects (lit, history, science) in his room at night before bed.  The house is quiet, he can focus better, and he seems to retain well.  We then do the related discussion, etc., the next morning.

 

Does everything that says "write this" really have to be written?  Can it be done orally?  Answering short answer questions, longer essay questions, and learning to *write* (i.e., composition) must be physically written, obviously.  However, with my DS, a lot of the learning assessment, checking for comprehension, and going into deeper connections can be done much more efficiently by interacting with me verbally.  It took me (a product of traditional public schools) a while to get past the public-schoolish mental block that says all output must be written.  True in a classroom with one teacher and 20 or 30 students to assess - not true in my homeschool.  :coolgleamA:

 

Well let me think this through for a second.  He has to write in math, then he has Latin Road to English Grammar which involves a lot of copying charts and things into his notebook (I'm liking that part of it less and less after 3 weeks), then he has Writing With Skill which is actually pretty light on the amount of writing so far.  He has to write answers in his Latina Christiana book, and he has to write up lab reports in science when we have them.  He has to write on his timeline and complete a map assignment each week.  He writes his spelling words, and he writes in his vocabulary book, and occasionally he has to write in his study skills book, but not often.

 

I could stop making him copy the charts in Latin Road to English Grammar and either photocopy them for his notebook, or just ignore that assignment.  I am already in the process of changing his spelling so he doesn't have to write 25 words each time.  I love the Wordly Wise series, but he hates doing the workbook exercises, so I'm considering switching from the books (5 daily assignments involving writing) to using just the online word lists and games.  Other than printing labels for him to cut and paste into his timeline or on his map, I'm not sure where else I could cut out writing.  I welcome suggestions! :) 

[happymomofboys]

Not to be annoying and simplistic, but it sounds like dawdling and lack of cooperation are bigger problems for you than scheduling to get "everything" in. In your shoes, I would find solutions/strategies for getting your DS to focus. I don't have magic answers because I don't know why he is dawdling, but I will say that we get a lot done in a short period because there is no dawdling. My oldest is only going into 5th, though. He will be going from about 4.5 hours a day to 5.5 hours a day, and this does not include literature reading.

 

As far as effective strategies for getting more done in less time, working skills into content is a big time saver for us here. I don't have them doing nonsense work or things that take lots of time with little payoff (for example, diagramming, yes; rewriting entire incorrect sentences correctly in their grammar book, no).

 

Absolutely!  This has been my ongoing struggle as he's grown over the years.  He wants to play and have fun and do the things he wants to do, but he will sit and stare at a page in his book for half an hour when he could have read the whole assignment in 15 minutes if he'd just do it.  Or he will take 30 minutes to do three exercises out of 10.  I do my best to interrupt his dawdling, bring him to me, have him do his work where I can keep an eye on him, sit him next to me to keep him on task if it comes to it, etc, but I *have* to take time with his brother, and that means leaving him to work independently periodically.  His consequence is not having as much play time and having to finish after our regular school day.  But that's not what I wanted for him when I started homeschooling.  I miss when he was in 2nd and 3rd grade and we could start at 9am and be done by 2pm with an hour for lunch.

[TarynB]

Well let me think this through for a second.  He has to write in math, then he has Latin Road to English Grammar which involves a lot of copying charts and things into his notebook (I'm liking that part of it less and less after 3 weeks), then he has Writing With Skill which is actually pretty light on the amount of writing so far.  He has to write answers in his Latina Christiana book, and he has to write up lab reports in science when we have them.  He has to write on his timeline and complete a map assignment each week.  He writes his spelling words, and he writes in his vocabulary book, and occasionally he has to write in his study skills book, but not often.

 

I could stop making him copy the charts in Latin Road to English Grammar and either photocopy them for his notebook, or just ignore that assignment.  I am already in the process of changing his spelling so he doesn't have to write 25 words each time.  I love the Wordly Wise series, but he hates doing the workbook exercises, so I'm considering switching from the books (5 daily assignments involving writing) to using just the online word lists and games.  Other than printing labels for him to cut and paste into his timeline or on his map, I'm not sure where else I could cut out writing.  I welcome suggestions! :)

 

I'm not familiar with some of the curricula you're using, but we use the Wordly Wise workbook too.  DS is doing level 8, so not sure if this applies the same at all levels . . . but, we've worked around most of the writing that the activities ask for.  So, this week Activity A says to choose 2 phrases and write a sentence - DS just circles the two choices that go together, no need to actually write out the sentence.  Activity B is just crossing out a word and writing a new word to replace it.  C and D say circle the correct answer.  Activity E, which is a reading selection and then asks for the most writing by far, we do that orally.  Same learning, different output.  IDK, maybe you could do something more like that too.  As far as writing science reports, I agree that learning to write them is a skill.  But we don't do a formal report for every hands-on lab we do.  Maybe write one once in a while to keep the skill fresh, otherwise we just discuss the same content verbally.  And I agree with a PP, typing as much as possible is the way to go here also.

[Arcadia]

...but he will sit and stare at a page in his book for half an hour when he could have read the whole assignment in 15 minutes if he'd just do it. Or he will take 30 minutes to do three exercises out of 10.

Having a personal timer and food helps minimise my boys dawdling. It is one thing for mummy to say they are taking a long time, it is another for their stopwatch to say they took forever. My older boy slows down a lot when he needs a "food top-up" and speeds up like crazy after food. For summer my boys work faster after a home-made fruit smoothie break.

[happymomofboys]

Having a personal timer and food helps minimise my boys dawdling. It is one thing for mummy to say they are taking a long time, it is another for their stopwatch to say they took forever. My older boy slows down a lot when he needs a "food top-up" and speeds up like crazy after food. For summer my boys work faster after a home-made fruit smoothie break.

 

Oh I like this!  Snacks and a stopwatch... he would like that... then again he might start building a fort out of baby carrots or get mesmerized by watching the time fly by... LOL!  That's my kid, though.  :)  At this point it's worth a shot.

[Halcyon]

My older is entering 6th, and we school from about 9-12, break for lunch and then 1-3 most days. Some days we have afternoon activities so we don't school in the afternoon. He works quickly, usually, and doesn't dawdle (much!) but I think i overwhelmed him with too much stuff last year, so we are simplifying this coming year. We will be doing Oak Meadow, TabletClass Pre-A and A, Latin and Spanish, but alternating days for the languages. 

 

It looks to me like you could do some of the writing orally for your child.

[jengjohnson]

I have one that stays on task and one big dawdler.  I'm so frustrated by my dawdler!  I have not found her motivation.  She doesn't like to eat breakfast, but then eats a very early lunch.  I think part of her problem is that she doesn't eat early enough to get her brain moving.  Perhaps having a bit of food in the school room would get her snacking and thinking faster...

[maize]

We school year-round, we limit what has to be done every day (mostly math, foreign language, and music) --those are done 5-6 days a week. Other subjects we rotate days. We have morning and afternoon work, and there is not playing during that time frame until their allotted work is done (though they are allowed to swing or jump in the trampoline for an activity break). If they get everything done early (i.e. afternoon work is all done before lunch) they are free for the rest of the day. My 8 year old often has math and music practice done before I am even up, he really values his free time.

[Mandy in TN]

Well let me think this through for a second.  He has to write in math, then he has Latin Road to English Grammar which involves a lot of copying charts and things into his notebook (I'm liking that part of it less and less after 3 weeks), then he has Writing With Skill which is actually pretty light on the amount of writing so far.  He has to write answers in his Latina Christiana book, and he has to write up lab reports in science when we have them.  He has to write on his timeline and complete a map assignment each week.  He writes his spelling words, and he writes in his vocabulary book, and occasionally he has to write in his study skills book, but not often.

 

I could stop making him copy the charts in Latin Road to English Grammar and either photocopy them for his notebook, or just ignore that assignment.  I am already in the process of changing his spelling so he doesn't have to write 25 words each time.  I love the Wordly Wise series, but he hates doing the workbook exercises, so I'm considering switching from the books (5 daily assignments involving writing) to using just the online word lists and games.  Other than printing labels for him to cut and paste into his timeline or on his map, I'm not sure where else I could cut out writing.  I welcome suggestions! :)

 

TOG Year 2 D, SM 6A, LREG 1, WWS 1, Spelling Connections Practice 6, Latina Christiana I, Critical Thinking, Intellego Unit Studies Astronomy and Space, The Middle-Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World, Family Time Fitness

 

Ditch LREG. He is already doing Latina Christiana. If he really needs more grammar, purchase something that is less involved and more to the point. GUM Drops, Exercises in English, etc.

 

Wordly Wise isn't even on his list. So, he is doing WW and Spelling Connections. Does he still need spelling? If not, don't replace it. Ditch it. My older boys loathed WW. Does he need a vocabulary program and Latin? Does TOG also cover some vocabulary? If we were using TOG and studying Latin, I would ditch vocabulary.

 

Is he doing the composition in TOG and in WWS1? If so, I would definitely pick one or the other.

 

Is he using The Middle-Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World to help organize his time and be more efficient? lol Keep plugging through it I guess.

Mandy

[happymomofboys]

TOG Year 2 D, SM 6A, LREG 1, WWS 1, Spelling Connections Practice 6, Latina Christiana I, Critical Thinking, Intellego Unit Studies Astronomy and Space, The Middle-Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World, Family Time Fitness

 

Ditch LREG. He is already doing Latina Christiana. If he really needs more grammar, purchase something that is less involved and more to the point. GUM Drops, Exercises in English, etc.

 

Wordly Wise isn't even on his list. So, he is doing WW and Spelling Connections. Does he still need spelling? If not, don't replace it. Ditch it. My older boys loathed WW. Does he need a vocabulary program and Latin? Does TOG also cover some vocabulary? If we were using TOG and studying Latin, I would ditch vocabulary.

 

Is he doing the composition in TOG and in WWS1? If so, I would definitely pick one or the other.

 

Is he using The Middle-Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World to help organize his time and be more efficient? lol Keep plugging through it I guess.

Mandy

 

I'm beginning to agree with you on LREG for the same reason you mentioned.  He's already doing Latin and he's already had 5 years of grammar (FLL 1-4 and Bridge to the Latin Road).  He is doing Wordly Wise, don't know why I didn't put it in my signature.  He's not doing vocabulary in TOG because I don't like the word choices.  I don't know that he even needs vocabulary because he's doing Latin, but if we do continue to do it, I am thinking we will do it orally as someone suggested or just do the online games.  Spelling Connections is what I'm switching to from Sequential Spelling which isn't working for him.  He most definitely needs spelling.  He doesn't do any of the TOG composition because I prefer SWB's methodology.  We did some IEW Ancient History Based Writing last year but he hated it and it took him so long to do lessons that they no longer lined up with his history.  He prefers WWS to IEW.  And  yes,The Middle Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World is a study skills book that we're using for the next few weeks to hopefully encourage him to organize his time and improve his study habits.  ETA:  He also thinks it's hilarious and it's a highlight to his day  2-3 tmes a week.

[regentrude]

I start from a focus on the core subjects: math, science, english, history, foreign language.

One hour in each of the five core subject for each day during a 36 week school year gives 180 hours of work (in high school that would be a full credit by any standard. Our state would allow us to give a credit for 100 hours). We use rigorous materials, so those credits are meaty.

One additional hour per day means a full elective credit or two half credits, or an easy 1.5 credits.

Add in some work over the summer (we continue math), field trips during weekends and summer(museum visits and life performances for arts and music, rock climbing and mountaineering for PE), and the kids end with a balanced college prep education.

 

Time goes up with dual enrollment science classes at a 4 year university - but before that, six hours are by far plenty for our educational goals. After all, we want them to have time for choir, horseback riding, creative writing, free reading - and simple downtime. Less is more. I'd rather they have a solid preparation in the core subjects than dozens of electives.

[Mandy in TN]

 And  yes,The Middle Schooler's Guide to Ruling the World is a study skills book that we're using for the next few weeks to hopefully encourage him to organize his time and improve his study habits.  ETA:  He also thinks it's hilarious and it's a highlight to his day  2-3 tmes a week.

 

Maybe I should check it out! :D

Mandy

[happymomofboys]

I just want to thank everyone who has responded so far.  I am definitely guilty of overplanning and worrying too much about covering everything to the point of overkill.  Sometimes I do need someone to tell me I'm making my kid do too much or give me permission to cut that really great curriculum that I bought but isn't really necessary.  I can already see ways I can eliminate some of the stress around here.  We school 3 weeks on/1 week off during the summer, so next week is our off week.  I plan to spend the mornings doing a little catch up with ds on some of the things he got behind on this week, and then when we start up again for week 4, I'll be prepared with a new, slightly pared down plan.  I'm so glad that my IHIPs aren't due in July.  It gives me time to go through this process of figuring out what will work before I have to tell the superintendent what we'll be using.

[foxbridgeacademy]

We've never spent more then 4 hours on school(this year maybe a bit more). I try to get rid of any "busy" work or non-essential subjects. For DS(rising 7th grader)we do a lot orally. For example: our history has a fair amount of reading per day. He reads the first half I read the second. Then there are 3-4 writing assignments. I turn all but 1 into discussion questions then he does a written answer (full paragraph) for the last one, usually on the computer. Math we do enough problems to make sure he has understanding of the lesson then we move on. As for reading.... he's dyslexic so if there's a lot of reading, say two chapters he reads the first, I read the second.

[happymomofboys]

So I'm taking a lot of advice and here is what my tentative plan is:

 

Vocabulary:  Dropping the WW book.  Use free online WW word list activity twice a week instead.

Spelling:  Drop Sequential Spelling.  Use free rule-based spelling program or used R&S Spelling 6 (still debating).

Grammar:  Drop LREG.  Use CGP KS3 English Study Guide and Scary Bits to review grammar.  Once or twice a week diagram sentences.

Latin:  Drop LREG and use only Latina Christiana.

 

I will also be looking for places to replace writing with doing things orally, as well as providing a morning and afternoon snack break.

[Grantmom]

My older is entering 6th, and we school from about 9-12, break for lunch and then 1-3 most days. Some days we have afternoon activities so we don't school in the afternoon. He works quickly, usually, and doesn't dawdle (much!) but I think i overwhelmed him with too much stuff last year, so we are simplifying this coming year. We will be doing Oak Meadow, TabletClass Pre-A and A, Latin and Spanish, but alternating days for the languages. 

 

It looks to me like you could do some of the writing orally for your child.

 

This is OT, but can I ask, are you doing Tablet Class Pre-A and A concurrently, or are you going to do one and then the other and you just plan to finish both in the year?

[happymomofboys]

I came up with this schedule based on some I'd seen for classical Christian schools that use this type of class rotation.  It's still 6 hours a day, but I'm cutting back on the frequency of "extras" and focusing on a solid rotation of the core subjects.  I'm certain that not every subject will require an entire hour, so I don't expect to follow the times exactly as written, but one or two subjects may take more than an hour some days, so I think it will balance out.  Please tell me what you think.  

 

1: Mathematics

2: Logic

3: Latin/Spanish

4: English

5: Literature

6: History

7: Science

8: Art/P.E./Music/Health/Drama/Practical Arts

 

Time  A  B  C  D  E  F  G  H

8:00   1  7  5  3   1   7  5   3

9:00   2  8  6  4   2   8  6   4

10:00 3  1  7  5   3   1  7   5

11:00 4  2  8  6   4   2  8   6

12:00 L  L  L  L   L   L  L   L

1:00   5  3  1  7   5   3  1   7

2:00   6  4  2  8   6   4  2   8

 

[Arcadia]

1: Mathematics

2: Logic

3: Latin/Spanish

4: English

5: Literature

6: History

7: Science

8: Art/P.E./Music/Health/Drama/Practical Arts

 

Time A B C D E F G H

8:00 1 7 5 3 1 7 5 3

9:00 2 8 6 4 2 8 6 4

10:00 3 1 7 5 3 1 7 5

11:00 4 2 8 6 4 2 8 6

12:00 L L L L L L L L

1:00 5 3 1 7 5 3 1 7

2:00 6 4 2 8 6 4 2 8

I'll put science, art, music, PE, health, drama, practical arts at the last slot for the day. For one thing setting up and cleaning up takes more time. For another, your child can go into overtime withouy worrying about eating into another subjects's time.

If you are doing Literature orally, you can do the discussions over lunch time. That would shorten the day alittle.

I will also factor in time for a morning recess since 8am to 12 noon can be tiring without a 10-15 mins snack break.

[texasmama]

I am ditching spelling next year for my boys. They don't need it. We do Rod and Staff grammar mostly orally. The physical act of writing tires my boys so we do as much as possible orally. Both boys will be in WWS next year, which will be plenty of writing for them. History and literature is independent reading, read alouds and discussion. No writing. They do some writing for their science and Latin co-op classes. Everything planned for next year is necessary. No fluff. No time for doing things which are unnecessary. That is how we keep our school days manageable. It took a paradigm shift for me to get rid of spelling, but I'm glad I did and so are my boys. :)

[happymomofboys]

I'll put science, art, music, PE, health, drama, practical arts at the last slot for the day. For one thing setting up and cleaning up takes more time. For another, your child can go into overtime withouy worrying about eating into another subjects's time.

If you are doing Literature orally, you can do the discussions over lunch time. That would shorten the day alittle.

I will also factor in time for a morning recess since 8am to 12 noon can be tiring without a 10-15 mins snack break.

 

Thanks for the advice!  The daily rotation is just to help me know what subjects need to be scheduled on any given day.  I'll still have the flexibility to rearrange the order within a single day for convenience. So, I am thinking that on the days when science or an elective is scheduled I'll rearrange the order within that day so that we're doing those subjects right before lunch or at the end of the day.   The times are only listed so that I could be sure I wasn't going over 6 hours.  I also plan to have a snack break between 9:30 and 10:30am so those two class periods will only be about 50-55 minutes instead of the full hour.

[momto2Cs]

The desire to keep our days at a reasonable (for us!) amount of time was one of the reasons I decided to try something new this year, i.e. block scheduling. You can see my full plan here, but basically it means in any day, we'll be doing:

 

Math (Saxon or Jousting Armadillos): about 30-45 minutes

Language Arts: Spelling, Writing (Brave Writer): about an hour

Block study: probably about 1.5-2 hours a day

General read-alouds: about an hour a day, some is at bedtime

 

ETA: We school 4-5 days a week, 36 weeks per year.

Edited July 22, 2013 by momto2Cs

[stoverdavid30]

Yes, seems like we need more hours in the day!