Those familiar with the criminal justice system

[AimeeM]

Thanks Guys! I'll tell my sister what you guys have shared with me and I'll update after we know what's going on.

[Desert Rat]

:grouphug: :grouphug: I don't have any advice. They took my mom off all her psych meds during a stint in rehab and it was disasterous!

 

I want to bump this so it stays on the first page. I hope he gets back on his meds before bad things happen!

[texasmama]

Does the jail having any mental health evaluations? In my county, every prisoner is evaluated upon arrival by a mental health worker. Those who are believed to need further mental health evaluation are seen by a psychiatrist. The evaluation is cursory, but efforts are made to continue with mental health treatment in the form of medications if it has been given prior to incarceration. The county mental health agency has employees at the jail and access to records of clients who are already in the county mental health system. You might ask if the jail has anything similar - or a law/mental health liaison.

[Joanne]

There will be several screenings, both medical and mental health, if he is going to be there for a length of time.

 

Jail is not a hospital or rehabilitiation facility. They don't have a pharmacy and aren't designed to identify, prescribe for and give Rx.

[GWOB]

Girl with a CJ degree here. Lawyer up. The CJ system is not all that sympathetic to people with mental illnesses. Your bil absolutely need an advocate. Yesterday.

[Catwoman]

No advice, just :grouphug:

 

I feel so sorry for your poor sister. This must be horrible for her! :(

[Tap]

Has he told the jail that he was on/needs meds?

 

In our pharmacy, we get requests from jails all the time to identify the medications a patient is currently taking. We recieve these pretty soon after the patient is put in jail and it usually says the patient is being seen in the clinic that day. (I have seen a patient one day in our pharmacy and had the request the following day from a jail, so they must have been arrested somewhere in between.) The request comes with our pharmacies name on it, so I assume the patient is the one who gives them the information.

 

I assume they are requested so they can treat the patient, not just stuck in a file somewhere.

 

 

I am certain different states have different rules for this, but I would suppose that the patient would need to be forthcoming about the problem to get treatment.

[Twinmom]

So sorry. I don't have much advice but do want to offer you an understanding hug! My BIL is seriously mentally ill and addicted (some may remember the long story about getting a mental health warrant and chasing him around town with it!) and until he recently became physically disabled, he was in and out of jail on a variety of charges. It is very painful and feels very out of control...I well remember! To make matters more difficult in my case, I am a mental health professional and many people expected that I could manage to get him the treatment he needed. Nope, not while in jail and barely while he was out of it. Those who do not want help very often can manage to avoid it altogether, then innocent people get hurt. :(

 

His psychiatric treatment while incarcerated was always sketchy at best, harmful at worst. He was kept on meds after a psych eval and placed on a psychiatric unit...has this been mentioned for your BIL? The best I can suggest for you is that you pressure whomever ends up as his lawyer to have him placed on a psych floor and evaluated. Their focus will not be on treatment for your BIL but rather on safety for all while he is in jail...you may have to appeal on that point in order to get him meds. If you anticipate he will be in jail until trial, you might need to google local mental health advocates and see if you can get someone to help you appeal for at least adequate medication while behind bars. This may, unfortunately, require you to hire a private attorney.

 

If you can do none of that, keep on calling the jail and asking to speak to "someone in charge" (daily if necessary) and claiming your BIL is a danger to self and others if not medicated. Squeaky wheels eventually get passed on to higher authorities when safety is involved. This certainly has potential to work against your BIL legally, though...in my case, I just didn't care so long as he got the meds he needed to be safe. It worked in our case...perhaps it will work in yours. Ask the former psychiatrist to call as well. We didn't get the ideal meds...in fact, he ended up with a nasty case of tardive dyskinesia from their choices...but he was at least psychiatrically stabilized. Safety is the main thing here. If they have reason to believe that his condition will be a risk, they will medicate.

 

Many hugs and prayers.

[AimeeM]

Has he told the jail that he was on/needs meds?

 

In our pharmacy, we get requests from jails all the time to identify the medications a patient is currently taking. We recieve these pretty soon after the patient is put in jail and it usually says the patient is being seen in the clinic that day. (I have seen a patient one day in our pharmacy and had the request the following day from a jail, so they must have been arrested somewhere in between.) The request comes with our pharmacies name on it, so I assume the patient is the one who gives them the information.

 

I assume they are requested so they can treat the patient, not just stuck in a file somewhere.

 

 

I am certain different states have different rules for this, but I would suppose that the patient would need to be forthcoming about the problem to get treatment.

Yes, he definitely informed them. Also, my sister informed both the detective leading the investigation and the jail. They were informed that he is mentally ill, on medication, what medication, that he has been hospitalized for mental health issues, and that he's attempted suicide before. Nobody, to their knowledge, has requested copies of medications taken, or anything medical, from the pharmacy or BIL's psychiatrist. We DO know that he isn't being given any of his medication (even his blood pressure meds) and was put in the normal (general population?) area of the jail after only a brief stint on suicide watch - which is going to do nothing for him if he's off his anti psychotics and anti depressants; without his meds he hallucinates, is paranoid, and fairly violent. I'm completely confused as to why they would risk the safety of others like this. BIL's psychiatrist is trying to figure out what is going on.

[Lanny]

@OP If they have a medical unit in the jail, they probably have an M.D. or R.N., who is in charge of that. Possibly your sister can call the jail and ask to speak with the "medical director" and if she is able to speak with that person, possibly she can get them to provide medications for her husband, after explaining the medications he has been on and the problems that he has.

 

Not sure if your sister can get the court appointed attorney changed, because it has only been one week. That sounds like a tougher thing to accomplish.

 

I feel very sorry for your sister and if they have children, for their children.

 

What state are they in? My guess is that each state handles things differently.

[AimeeM]

So sorry. I don't have much advice but do want to offer you an understanding hug! My BIL is seriously mentally ill and addicted (some may remember the long story about getting a mental health warrant and chasing him around town with it!) and until he recently became physically disabled, he was in and out of jail on a variety of charges. It is very painful and feels very out of control...I well remember! To make matters more difficult in my case, I am a mental health professional and many people expected that I could manage to get him the treatment he needed. Nope, not while in jail and barely while he was out of it. Those who do not want help very often can manage to avoid it altogether, then innocent people get hurt. :(

 

His psychiatric treatment while incarcerated was always sketchy at best, harmful at worst. He was kept on meds after a psych eval and placed on a psychiatric unit...has this been mentioned for your BIL? The best I can suggest for you is that you pressure whomever ends up as his lawyer to have him placed on a psych floor and evaluated. Their focus will not be on treatment for your BIL but rather on safety for all while he is in jail...you may have to appeal on that point in order to get him meds. If you anticipate he will be in jail until trial, you might need to google local mental health advocates and see if you can get someone to help you appeal for at least adequate medication while behind bars. This may, unfortunately, require you to hire a private attorney.

 

If you can do none of that, keep on calling the jail and asking to speak to "someone in charge" (daily if necessary) and claiming your BIL is a danger to self and others if not medicated. Squeaky wheels eventually get passed on to higher authorities when safety is involved. This certainly has potential to work against your BIL legally, though...in my case, I just didn't care so long as he got the meds he needed to be safe. It worked in our case...perhaps it will work in yours. Ask the former psychiatrist to call as well. We didn't get the ideal meds...in fact, he ended up with a nasty case of tardive dyskinesia from their choices...but he was at least psychiatrically stabilized. Safety is the main thing here. If they have reason to believe that his condition will be a risk, they will medicate.

 

Many hugs and prayers.

 

From what I understand, there is a probable cause hearing in a couple of days. I'm not entirely sure there will be a trial. All of this happened in the open, and the police who responded saw him commit the worst of it. Also, BIL is being very cooperative and not denying anything that happened.

[AimeeM]

@OP If they have a medical unit in the jail, they probably have an M.D. or R.N., who is in charge of that. Possibly your sister can call the jail and ask to speak with the "medical director" and if she is able to speak with that person, possibly she can get them to provide medications for her husband, after explaining the medications he has been on and the problems that he has.

 

Not sure if your sister can get the court appointed attorney changed, because it has only been one week. That sounds like a tougher thing to accomplish.

 

I feel very sorry for your sister and if they have children, for their children.

 

What state are they in? My guess is that each state handles things differently.

 

She has contacted the medical unit of the jail. She was told that they requested copies of his medical - but when she called his psychiatrist she found out that this was absolutely untrue; she was told they were going to give him his medications - but again found out that, not only had they never consulted his doctor or pharmacy about his medications, but that they haven't given him any of his medications.

 

They do have children. Two. They live in GA.

[AimeeM]

There will be several screenings, both medical and mental health, if he is going to be there for a length of time.

 

Jail is not a hospital or rehabilitiation facility. They don't have a pharmacy and aren't designed to identify, prescribe for and give Rx.

 

Why would they put somebody known for being unstable, paranoid, and violent back in general population without first screening him though - especially someone probably withdrawing from said meds? That seems unnecessarily risky at best, downright negligent and potentially deadly at worst.

[Tammyla]

Were his medications sent with him to the jail with the officers? I'd check with arresting office, and the jail to track them down if they were sent.

 

:grouphug: Mental illness is so hard on families.

[----]

.

[AimeeM]

Were his medications sent with him to the jail with the officers? I'd check with arresting office, and the jail to track them down if they were sent.

 

:grouphug: Mental illness is so hard on families.

 

He wasn't arrested at home - he was arrested at the scene of the crime. The officers haven't been to his home, as yet.

[Lanny]

She has contacted the medical unit of the jail. She was told that they requested copies of his medical - but when she called his psychiatrist she found out that this was absolutely untrue; she was told they were going to give him his medications - but again found out that, not only had they never consulted his doctor or pharmacy about his medications, but that they haven't given him any of his medications.

 

They do have children. Two. They live in GA.

 

 

Aimee I don't know what else she can do. I will include your sister and her children in my prayers.

 

Possibly she can contact someone in the office of the Georgia Attorney General or the Georgia Dept. of Corrections. Whoever is in charge of the jail he is in doesn't seem to be doing what we here on WTM would hope would be done for him, regarding his medications.

[AimeeM]

According to dh, everyone who is staying is screened by a medical professional before they ever leave intake. If your relative was put on suicide watch for a few days, it makes sense that he has been screened. Maybe for privacy reasons, his relatives may not be aware of the whole situation??

 

From what my sister understand, he was put on suicide watch because he was detoxing and because she told the detective he'd attempted suicide before.

Why wouldn't they have consulted his medical team (psych and pharmacy)? How could they have done an effective mental health eval while he was detoxing from pills and alcohol?

Also, why is the jail then lying and saying that they consulted his pyschiatrist, when they didn't - leading everyone (including the psychiatrist) into a frenzy.

[Ravin]

Georgia isn't known for its civilized jail system. I know here the P.D. office has a couple of attorneys who focus on mental illness cases/law, but that's not necessarily common. The best thing the wife can do is be a squeaky wheel. Does she have the attorney's contact information? The P.D. generally can't share much info with people who aren't the client, but that needn't stop her from sharing info with the attorney, including copies of medical records and other information which would be helpful before the hearing. If nothing else, if she turns up to the hearing she can tell the attorney and/or judge her understanding of what is going on right then. If the P.D. thinks the client isn't capable of rational decision making, an ad litem can also be requested. But the standard for that is pretty extreme in a lot of states.

 

If she can hire a private attorney for him, that might be better.

 

If he pleas out and is landed in jail or prison for an extended period, it's likely they'll sort him out then (one hopes).

 

Our system is pretty idiotic when it comes to handling MH, unfortunately.

[Tammyla]

Oh, then the family member should contact someone at the jail and make arrangements to bring in the medications in the original bottles; if they wont take them contact his attorney (or another one) or his doctor to get them into their hands asap. They will likely wait to verify and approve them, but if they are prescribed and approved he should be able to take them. I agree with mentioning they are for his safety and well being as well as those around him. And Document the calls; take names dates, times and notes.

[Tammyla]

Don't wait or rely on them to contact his doctors; they wont in most cases.

[AimeeM]

Georgia isn't known for its civilized jail system. I know here the P.D. office has a couple of attorneys who focus on mental illness cases/law, but that's not necessarily common. The best thing the wife can do is be a squeaky wheel. Does she have the attorney's contact information? The P.D. generally can't share much info with people who aren't the client, but that needn't stop her from sharing info with the attorney, including copies of medical records and other information which would be helpful before the hearing. If nothing else, if she turns up to the hearing she can tell the attorney and/or judge her understanding of what is going on right then. If the P.D. thinks the client isn't capable of rational decision making, an ad litem can also be requested. But the standard for that is pretty extreme in a lot of states.

 

If she can hire a private attorney for him, that might be better.

 

If he pleas out and is landed in jail or prison for an extended period, it's likely they'll sort him out then (one hopes).

 

Our system is pretty idiotic when it comes to handling MH, unfortunately.

 

She's attempted to contact his PD at least a dozen times; she's never received a call back (which is what prompted the question about changing PDs, lol).

She can't hire a private attorney. She is job searching currently (SAHM) and just trying to feed the children and keep the house.

[AimeeM]

Aimee I don't know what else she can do. I will include your sister and her children in my prayers.

 

Possibly she can contact someone in the office of the Georgia Attorney General or the Georgia Dept. of Corrections. Whoever is in charge of the jail he is in doesn't seem to be doing what we here on WTM would hope would be done for him, regarding his medications.

 

Thanks Lanny.

If I'm honest, I'm not sorry he's away from my sister and the children. Thing is, nothing about the way this is being handled seems fair or even safe, regardless of my personal feelings about the man.

[jelbe5]

When I worked at the local jail there were physical and mental screenings. Inmates were able to receive prescribed meds dispensed by the nurses. We even had an inmate housed in the smaller medical unit who had a CPAP machine for nighttime.

 

However, it sometimes took time to get inmates back on medications when they came in. It was not unusual for inmates to be off meds for a while until the assessments were conducted and meds verified. The attitude of staff in the medical unit was somewhat indifferent since many inmates who came in were addicted to something and appeared to be drug seeking.

 

Sorry you are dealing with this.

[jelbe5]

 

From what my sister understand, he was put on suicide watch because he was detoxing and because she told the detective he'd attempted suicide before.

Why wouldn't they have consulted his medical team (psych and pharmacy)? How could they have done an effective mental health eval while he was detoxing from pills and alcohol?

Also, why is the jail then lying and saying that they consulted his pyschiatrist, when they didn't - leading everyone (including the psychiatrist) into a frenzy.

 

There is a good chance the medical unit is a contracted group and therefore independent of the county/state, etc. It is a cost savings measure as well as another layer to blame should something go wrong.

 

If he is on suicide watch he may be housed in the medical unit. They may actually have paperwork laying around with the intent to call his doctors, etc. but the jail is not a hospital or rehab as Joanne said so the tendency is to move slowly. The med units are usually staffed to just need the minimum requirements. There is usually no doctor or psych on staff - usually they are consulting and visiting, coming in only at set times a few times per week. If there is an emergency then a call will be placed.

 

If he is cooperating things won't happen very fast. They might be waiting until a hearing to see if he is even going to stay. If he goes off they will put him in solitary or the medical unit or a rubber/padded room and call the psych at that time. His wife could take in his meds but they may not accept them and they won't dispense until things have been verified.

[AimeeM]

There is a good chance the medical unit is a contracted group and therefore independent of the county/state, etc. It is a cost savings measure as well as another layer to blame should something go wrong.

 

If he is on suicide watch he may be housed in the medical unit. They may actually have paperwork laying around with the intent to call his doctors, etc. but the jail is not a hospital or rehab as Joanne said so the tendency is to move slowly. The med units are usually staffed to just need the minimum requirements. There is usually no doctor or psych on staff - usually they are consulting and visiting, coming in only at set times a few times per week. If there is an emergency then a call will be placed.

 

If he is cooperating things won't happen very fast. They might be waiting until a hearing to see if he is even going to stay. If he goes off they will put him in solitary or the medical unit or a rubber/padded room and call the psych at that time. His wife could take in his meds but they may not accept them and they won't dispense until things have been verified.

He isn't on suicide watch or in medical any longer - he's back in general population as of, I think, Friday.

 

I can't imagine him getting out. The victim was hurt pretty badly, a firearm was involved, and he continued to threaten officers, from what I understand. Thus far there isn't even a bond.

[Lanny]

<snip>

She can't hire a private attorney. She is job searching currently (SAHM) and just trying to feed the children and keep the house.

 

@Aimee: Your sister has been trying to help your BIL and that's great, but, IMHO, she should now devote the vast majority of her efforts to getting help for herself and her children and make that the priority. She may need to, temporarily, apply for assistance, from the State of Georgia. Food Stamps and whatever financial aid they might be able to provide to her and her children. And, hopefully, she will get a job soon.

[Joanne]

Even in jail people get the meds they need in the US. That is simply not true that they are not given in jail, Joanne.

 

I work, professionally, with this population 5 to 6 days a week.

 

Please read my post, because the content you posit as mine isn't what I wrote.

 

It is VERY common for people recently in jail (jail is short term, prison is long term) to have a disruption is medical care.

 

His detox appears to have been somewhat medically supervised, and if he stays for a length of time, the correctional system is required to attend to his medical needs.

 

How quickly that plays out is heavily contextual.

 

[AimeeM]

@Aimee: Your sister has been trying to help your BIL and that's great, but, IMHO, she should now devote the vast majority of her efforts to getting help for herself and her children and make that the priority. She may need to, temporarily, apply for assistance, from the State of Georgia. Food Stamps and whatever financial aid they might be able to provide to her and her children. And, hopefully, she will get a job soon.

 

She's trying. I think she's still in shock. He was doing great until about a year ago - when his mother passed away. Things spiraled from there. She's just... in shock.

We're all able to help temporarily with money (and it's a larger, close knit family, so the children will certainly not do without the necessities). Her bigger concern is the house - certain types of aid in GA have suspended waiting lists from what I understand? I assume because of the high need volume and an overwhelmed county.

What nobody is able or willing to help with is an attorney for BIL. It sounds cold, I know, but he's been given many, many chances to get help, but still only does the bare minimum, if that. He will take the meds, but not go to therapy. He signs himself out of rehab and the psych units. He doesn't go to AA for more than a month, continues to buy alcohol and drink, continues to keep weapons in the house... We're tapped, so far as patience goes, or at least so far as I go...

[Joanne]

(((((Aimeee and family)))))

[Lanny]

She's trying. I think she's still in shock. He was doing great until about a year ago - when his mother passed away. Things spiraled from there. She's just... in shock.

We're all able to help temporarily with money (and it's a larger, close knit family, so the children will certainly not do without the necessities). Her bigger concern is the house - certain types of aid in GA have suspended waiting lists from what I understand? I assume because of the high need volume and an overwhelmed county.

What nobody is able or willing to help with is an attorney for BIL. It sounds cold, I know, but he's been given many, many chances to get help, but still only does the bare minimum, if that. He will take the meds, but not go to therapy. He signs himself out of rehab and the psych units. He doesn't go to AA for more than a month, continues to buy alcohol and drink, continues to keep weapons in the house... We're tapped, so far as patience goes, or at least so far as I go...

 

Wonderful that you and your family can help your sister and her children. i hope she can, this week, look into what type of aid might be available to her and her children, from the State of Georgia.

 

i did pray for your sister and her children this morning.

 

As Joanne wrote, probably it is normal, for there to be a short term disruption of medical care, after one is incarcerated. The *only* reason I would suggest your sister possibly contact the ACLU is to see if they can speed up your BIL getting his medications again.

 

I can understand why nobody in your family is willing or able to help with a private attorney. Incredibly expensive and he sounds like someone who should go to prison, for a number of years.

 

People who do not want help with alcohol or drugs cannot be helped. I have known 4 men (probably more) who were very open about their alcoholism. . 3 of them went to AA and changed their lives, incredibly. The other didn't... One can lead a horse to water, but one cannot make the horse drink the water.

 

Try to get your sister to take good care of herself and her children and to spend the majority of her time, or, all of her time, on that and not on her husband.

[AimeeM]

(((((Aimeee and family)))))

Thanks Joanne. I feel so badly for my little sister. I went to visit for a few days and she's... a mess.

Eventually she'll get back on her feet. While she's been a SAHM for 4 years, she had a great career prior to that. She'll do fine... eventually.

[AimeeM]

Wonderful that you and your family can help your sister and her children. i hope she can, this week, look into what type of aid might be available to her and her children, from the State of Georgia.

 

i did pray for your sister and her children this morning.

 

As Joanne wrote, probably it is normal, for there to be a short term disruption of medical care, after one is incarcerated. The *only* reason I would suggest your sister possibly contact the ACLU is to see if they can speed up your BIL getting his medications again.

 

I can understand why nobody in your family is willing or able to help with a private attorney. Incredibly expensive and he sounds like someone who should go to prison, for a number of years.

 

People who do not want help with alcohol or drugs cannot be helped. I have known 4 men (probably more) who were very open about their alcoholism. . 3 of them went to AA and changed their lives, incredibly. The other didn't... One can lead a horse to water, but one cannot make the horse drink the water.

 

Try to get your sister to take good care of herself and her children and to spend the majority of her time, or, all of her time, on that and not on her husband.

 

 

I think her biggest hurdle will be trying to put the past in the past, so that she can focus more on the future. She remembers, too clearly, BEFORE he was an addict and before his mental health issues appear to have surfaced. He was indeed a lovely man. Unfortunately she lets those old memories run the future, despite that he has shown no desire to get help in the present.

[Lanny]

I suspect that sometime in the future, your sister will decide to divorce him, but that's not going to happen, until she forgets how wonderful he was, years ago, and accepts what he has become. Very sad situation for your sister and for her children.

[jelbe5]

Sadly, it is time for your sister to stop focusing on her husband, who has done the bare minimum (or less) to help himself and begin to focus on herself and her children. Continuing to try to help is enabling him. He made poor choices and is now paying the price. Sadly, she and the kids are collateral damage.

 

I would strongly suggest she and the kids become involved in Al-Anon/therapy and she do what she needs to do to support herself and her family without her husband. Depending on what he has done he might not be released for quite some time.

[Catwoman]

I want to preface this by saying that if I was in your sister's situation, I would have kicked my dh to the curb a long, long time before things ever escalated to such an extreme degree. So maybe I'm not the best person to comment, but here I go anyway... :rolleyes:

 

I hate to say this, but I think it's time for your sister to worry about herself and her children, and to assume that the man she married is long gone.

 

I'm not saying she shouldn't try to ensure that he gets medical and psychiatric care while he's incarcerated, but have you asked her what she plans to do if and when he gets back out of prison? Is she really willing to take him back into her home with her children, after everything he has done? Because quite frankly, I think she has already dropped the ball big time, by having allowed this man to remain living with her and her children, fully knowing what his issues were. What if he had turned that violence on her or one of the kids???

 

I don't know how to say this gently, but your sister needs to get her head out of the sand and take a serious look at who her husband is right now, and stop living in a dream world where he's still the same man she married. And does she really think that when he gets out of prison, he'll just move back home, get a good job, and everything will be rosy? Because if she does, she's in for a rude awakening. Her dh is an addict and a violent criminal -- employers won't exactly be falling all over themselves trying to hire him. Your sister is most likely going to be the sole breadwinner, with or without her dh.

 

She deserves better, and even if she thinks she needs to stand by him, she should re-think her situation and realize that the people who need her to stand by them and prioritize their needs and safety are her children. If there were no kids involved, I wouldn't care what she did. If she wanted to throw her life away, waiting around for the guy to change his ways, I'd think she was crazy to do it, but I'd figure it was her business and not worry about her too much. But your sister has children, and that's where it gets complicated. The kids MUST come first.

 

What a rotten situation. :(