Potty training woes - almost 4 and NO desire to use the pot!

[AimeeM]

Prince Nico will be 4 in May. He did well with potty learning until the stomach bug (and, after that, pneumonia) hit the house in January. Now he has NO desire to try again. I mean, none. I know, I know - they'll do it when they're ready, right? But what about the kid that is heading into the elementary years and still absolutely refuses to use the potty?

I should add that he was NEVER disciplined for accidents when he potty learned previously. We kept it very low key - tons of praise when he did it, "oops - that's okay!" when he had an accident. No amount of bribery works. He cheers US on when WE use the potty :p, but if you suggest HE try, he runs to the other side of the house.

He is perfectly happy in diapers. Lol.

 

We can't have him run around naked - we have hard woods and the last time we tried that, when he did have an accident, he slipped and fell (and did hurt himself) - this didn't make him want to use the potty CORRECTLY more, it had the reverse effect - he then insisted he sit on the potty for far too long (as in, his legs fell asleep; he refused to get off even after he peed or poo'd in the pot... his legs had marks from sitting there so long!). He wouldn't get off the potty without a diaper being put on.

 

I'm completely out of my league here. My eldest was potty trained in one freakin' day by my aunt, during a sleepover at her house, lol.

[melissad2]

I think you have get rid of the diapers and put him in underwear. Diapers are too easy for them to use and still be comfortable.

[Clarkd]

underwear with plastic pants?

special privilege for being a big kid after one dry day and one dry week?

[aggie96]

I have no advice, just commiseration. My DS3 is almost 4 and exactly the same way. We will be going just undies this summer when it's easier to clean up and warm. :) It's going to be rough because he HATES his underwear. My daughters were sooooo easy and quick.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: It will happen, sooner or later, it will happen.

 

I'd recommend the training pants and simply keep working on it. Do this no matter where you are, kindly but with honesty.

 

Oh, you didn't make it to the potty; that's too bad. "Aww too bad, now we will have to leave the the (fun place or what ever else he is doing) and go get you changed at home." After he is changed, say something like... Oh, I think you'll make next time; help me put these into the wash.

 

 

He may be beyond the fun reward stage, and many times doing abc is more engaging than a trip to the potty for a little reward.

 

 

*Big tip....Take a few days and eat lots of things that make you thirsty. (Pretzels, popcorn etc. and have lots of drinks available.) I wouldn't spend lots of time having him sit and wait on the potty. Reminders and helping him know when he needs to stop and go will work eventually. My sister used digital timers that were set for a few minutes after snack and meals.

[Tammyla]

Get lots of training pants.

[melissad2]

Oh yeah, I forgot for my oldest we promised him a "big boy party" for when he didn't need diapers anymore! Complete with cake and ice cream :). He couldn't wait!

[Mandamom]

My dd was the one that completely refused to even sit on the toilet plus never had any accidents -- and I mean never. Once or twice she would hold it to the point of crying in pain and bladder spasms. Grrr she was (is?? :) ) so stubborn. I kept hearing from other moms that if you just waited her out she would eventually go -- not her.

 

 

She finally started using it during K although for several months the only way she would go was if I wrapped my arms around her while she was on the potty. Was I holding her down or hugging her? I'm not sure but I think it was a little of both.

 

She's almost 13 now and uses the potty with no problem :)

[LostSurprise]

No diapers. No pull ups.

 

Go to the store. Let him pick out underwear. Make sure you have several pairs of easy to remove pants (sweats are best).Tell him that he's a big boy like his brother and Daddy and that he's going to wear underwear.

 

The next day when he wakes up try to get him to sit on the potty as soon as he gets up. Then ask him to dress himself in the underwear and sweats. Place a pile of washcloths in a reachable spot in the bathroom and set up a basket in the tub for dirty laundry. Each time he wets take him to the bathroom and talk him through changing and cleaning himself. Be very encouraging but don't help. This is what everyone does when they have an accident.

 

If you're not against juice, give him a cup of apple juice during/immediately before every meal. Its a mild diuretic. After each meal and before and after any sleeps (naps, nighttime) try to get him to try the toilet. If you don't mind communal urination, aiming with Daddy or big brother can create some positive peer pressure.

 

I do help with some poop wiping (usually they do some wipes and I finish). I don't find most 4yr old boys, even the early trained, do a good job with that, but everything else should be his job.

 

I find most boys who haven't trained at this age don't want to be bothered. When they have to take responsibility for themselves they often suddenly develop a desire to spend as little time with the whole thing as possible, and that means potty training themselves.

 

We human beings like things as easy as possible. When the situation concerns us personally, we suddenly become very responsible. :rolleyes:

[grantmeawish]

Completely agree with lostsurprise.

[Crimson Wife]

I spent 6 months working with my little one on PT with very little progress on #2. Then her integrative pediatrician started her on Nystatin for yeast treatment, and within a week she was going #2 on the potty at least once per day. That was back in January and she has had very few accidents since. So you might want to consider asking your doctor about a trial of Nystatin to see if it helps at all.

[carriede]

This may not be for everyone, but it worked for my friend.

 

She told her DS3 that, since he was such a big boy, the store wouldn't let her buy diapers anymore. She found it easier to place the blame/authority elsewhere.

 

I agree with the PPs who said to get rid of diapers (and pull ups!) cold turkey.

[bettyandbob]

my youngest has down syndrome. We did an Applied Behavior Therapy approach. It's been 7 years since I trained him so I have no links explaining fully. The short answer is we were in the bathroom from the time he woke until bedtime for 3 weeks. The first few days we really were in the bathroom. Then I put baby gates on either end of the hallway outside of the bathroom. Older dc were in summer camp the first week, I forget what they did after that. Dh also made plans to get home from work early those weeks to give me some relief. I set up a vcr in view of the bathroom and we read lots of books. We spent a few days in no clothes and then a therapist said to put underpants on him.

 

It was horribly painful. But ds was trained in that time before he turned 5. I know several people in our down syndrom support group who dc were not trained until 8 or 10.

 

Anyway, barring disabilities, such an approach could work in just a couple of days. But you must commit to it. we ate meals in the hall outside the bathroom. I tried to get up and go for a run before being confined, but ds woke at 5 am.

 

When we were done that initial training, we followed a toileting schedule for a year or so.

[Unicorn.]

Mine were all that age when they potty trained. It only took a couple of days, and mine went straight to underwear 24/7- no accidents. I did what others suggested. I just told them they were big kids now, and got to wear big kid underwear (i used the Gerber training pants the first couple of days). Got rid of the diapers cold turkey, had a few accidents the first day or two, then they wanted to go to the store or grandma's w/ me, and I told them okay, but they had to remember to ask to use the potty while we were out. That was it. Let fun underwear be his reward (or heck, ice cream and cake work too- I'm not above bribery if it works!)

[MrsBasil]

DH taught DS how to mark trees when DS was 3 and had no interest after DD was born and then had him try to hit Cheerios. Pooping was easier once he got superhero big boy underwear he didn't want to "ruin".

[freesia]

I haven't read all the replies but here's my advice:

 

Decide that you want him potty trained and that, at this point, it has nothing to do with him being ready. He's 4 and has shown he can. Take your emotion out of it but be determined.

 

NO DIAPERS or pull ups except in car seats and bed. (If you let him watch TV cover where he sits with plastic) You can now get training pants with plastic covers. Say matter a factly, we are no longer wearing diapers.

 

Every 15 minutes (set a timer) have him feel his pants. If he is dry he gets a reward (juice or salty snack). Every hour, he sits on the potty. He gets a reward for that, too (juice or salty or chocolate). He also gets a reward if he self potties. By the second day move toward asking him if he needs to go every hour and rewarding just production.

 

If he cries or fusses or refuses just be matter of fact. If he has accidents all day, just be matter of fact but no more diapers or pull ups except in carseats and bed.

 

It would help if you could send the other kids away.

 

I've used this method to train all my children. It never took more than 3 days to be 90% trained and usually by the second day we were at a high percentage. My kids trained btwn 21 and 26 months.

[AimeeM]

DH taught DS how to mark trees when DS was 3 and had no interest after DD was born and then had him try to hit Cheerios. Pooping was easier once he got superhero big boy underwear he didn't want to "ruin".

I'm not sure how the neighbors would react to marking trees (subdivision; no real privacy and small lots). Lol!!!

[MrsBasil]

 

I'm not sure how the neighbors would react to marking trees (subdivision; no real privacy and small lots). Lol!!!

 

LOL! Yeah, DH took him hiking and then key DS do it in our backyard-but it's got a huge privacy fence and a ton of trees. You can't see into our backyard from the street or neigh it's houses or yards. Unless you squint through the slats which are slightly warped.

[Crafty Mathy Mom]

This may not be for everyone, but it worked for my friend.

 

She told her DS3 that, since he was such a big boy, the store wouldn't let her buy diapers anymore. She found it easier to place the blame/authority elsewhere.

 

I agree with the PPs who said to get rid of diapers (and pull ups!) cold turkey.

 

 

I did this with my son.

 

He was almost potty trained when the entire family came down with a stomach bug. I put him back in diapers while he and the rest of us recovered. After that he showed zero interest in returning to the potty. Nothing worked.

 

I arranged to go to my friend's checkout. She pulled the diapers out and told ds that she knew he was a big boy and the store didn't sell diapers to big boys. Then she pulled out some Scooby Doo underwear and said that big boys could buy those. It worked.

[AimeeM]

So I've had Nico in panties all day. He's only had one accident (pee), which he freaked about; I hugged him and calmed him down, cleaned it up, and put new panties on him. He's been good since then. The accident was probably my fault - I gave him his legos to play with, knowing that he gets very intense and can't be distracted when he plays with them, and that's exactly what happened - he got busy and forgot he had panties on. Note to self... no more legos for the first few days while he's adjusting to not having the diaper on. Lol.

Unfortunately he can't pick out cool undies - he is very small for his age (the size of an average 18 month old), and I've only found ONE store (and one set of undies) that will fit him. If he doesn't grow a bit more, soon, I'll have to throw down a hundred or so and buy some cloth diapers (without the cover maybe).

 

Another issue we have that I should have clarified in the OP. He has chronic constipation that came along with his other health problems. He frequently needs Miralax (as per our doctors) to "regulate" - the obvious problem is with a new potty trainer, he can't control himself when he's had a laxative. He's okay right now, but I have NO clue what we'll do the next time he needs to be dosed up; if we put him back in diapers, he'll only regress and we'll go through this again. We are trying to get in with a GI, but thus far we are no closer to helping the constipation without the help of medication. We've cut out dairy and that does seem to be helping quite a bit, but not enough that we can completely stop the Miralax yet.

 

Regardless, this is today and today he's fine :) I'm using the Big Boy Party idea - and he loves it. He wants to invite the neighbors, lol! I also told him that big boys who use the potty get to do their school work at the dining room table with Big Sis - and he could have the backpack he wants from Barnes and Noble (because I'm not above bribery).

[raindrops]

We are going through the same thing with my son. Glad we're not alone in this.

[Crimson Wife]

Are you giving him any probiotics? If not, I'd definitely recommend a good high-dose one. Furthermore, because orally consumed probiotics may break down before they reach the colon, I'd start with a rectal suppository.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Aimee, I'm just gonna be straight with ya... Kids have to be ready; but *very* few neurotypical children would not train by 2½ years old. And there are some really good reasons TO potty train early. Kids LIKE feeling "big." They like being able to do things on their own. They like being capable. They do start noticing other people questioning (though I will admit that other people should have more manners than to question aloud). If they *are* missing some piece of the puzzle, a four year old does think something may be wrong with them. Potty training gives freedom to the child (as well as Mom!). Teaching them takes care of all these things. And potty training before they become headstrong about it seems to make sense to me.

• Decide to potty train him.
  
• Go buy some size 2T undies (my sons were 21 and 24 pounds. Monkey was not even that big. They all got 2T undies, cool ones at that).
  
• I agree with the above that diapers are only for bed (carseat if you feel you must).
  
• Do a potty party one morning. I'll post to my blog in a minute for you.
  
• If he has any accidents, be very empathetic and caring.
  
• Also, let him take responsibility for cleaning it up (with your help to the degree necessary).
  

 

 

Honestly, I believe in "early" potty training, teaching children between 14 and 30 months (though I have always said it would make more sense to let them wait til four if mom would be too stressed about it). When to potty train is really an issue of when the parents want to do it, IMO.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Wendy, :) I had one early one also. Twas tough until I finally gave in.

[AimeeM]

I agree to an extent. Nico is neurotypical - but he isn't physically typical. There is no way, without putting him through a significant amount of stress, that we could have potty trained while he was hospitalized so frequently. Beyond that, he didn't walk until after 2, didn't speak until after age 3; general consensus with most professional we met was that he was/is intellectually gifted/above average, but that most things requiring physical exertion or skill on any level would take quite a while to catch up, even after his congenital defects were surgically fixed, because he was starting from behind. I've had to adjust my expectation regarding his physical abilities - unlike the other kids his age in co-op, stairs are still very difficult for him to navigate, he can't safely use a stool to get to the potty (no big, as we have a small potty chair now), he runs *differently*, etc. *I* know he's almost 4 and it's hard not to compare him, physically, to the others his age.

In other words, we had bigger fish to fry in the past year since he hit the "recovered" point of his medical lot, lol! Potty training hasn't really been on my radar. Unfortunately, he's now old enough that he has better things to do :p

 

Where do you find 2T undies? I've only been able to find size 2/3T - and those fall off him; this could have less to do with his weight and more to do with that he has no butt to hold them up :)

 

 

Aimee, I'm just gonna be straight with ya... Kids have to be ready; but *very* few neurotypical children would not train by 2½ years old. And there are some really good reasons TO potty train early. Kids LIKE feeling "big." They like being able to do things on their own. They like being capable. They do start noticing other people questioning (though I will admit that other people should have more manners than to question aloud). If they *are* missing some piece of the puzzle, a four year old does think something may be wrong with them. Potty training gives freedom to the child (as well as Mom!). Teaching them takes care of all these things. And potty training before they become headstrong about it seems to make sense to me.

• Decide to potty train him.
  
• Go buy some size 2T undies (my sons were 21 and 24 pounds. Monkey was not even that big. They all got 2T undies, cool ones at that).
  
• I agree with the above that diapers are only for bed (carseat if you feel you must).
  
• Do a potty party one morning. I'll post to my blog in a minute for you.
  
• If he has any accidents, be very empathetic and caring.
  
• Also, let him take responsibility for cleaning it up (with your help to the degree necessary).
  

 

Honestly, I believe in "early" potty training, teaching children between 14 and 30 months (though I have always said it would make more sense to let them wait til four if mom would be too stressed about it). When to potty train is really an issue of when the parents want to do it, IMO.

 

[AndyJoy]

What are the "panties" you're using that fit him? If they are plain cotton, you could use t-shirt transfers to make your own custom cool designs. I used transfers to make DS some Clifford undies recently since I couldn't find any to purchase and he is obsessed.

 

Also, the Gerber padded training pants come in 18 mo. and 2T sizes. They have plain white ones you could decorate yourself. The reviews on Amazon do say that they run big, but the ones I got at Walmart (patterned) ran really small, so maybe 18 mo. would still work.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Aimee, I did address physical issues in my blog post, but not here, for some reason. Sorry.

Absolutely think we should fry bigger fish when necessary. That was a big reason for pulling my ds out of school when we tried it in 2001.

I saw later on where you mentioned things like constipation also. That really needs to be mostly worked out as it is a known cause of potty issues.

My answer was mostly based on the idea that he's four and you're ready. GENERALLY, that means "just do it." I may not in an individual case though.

I would work on the constipation (have you seen the squatty potty? I told my kids I wanted one for family day). Then be super gentle and empathetic.

The chances he won't potty train are fairly slim. It just may take awhile to get him 100%.

[MFA323]

Walmart has been a good place for us to find really small undies. I don't think I've ever found the 18 mos. size anywhere else. We use the Gerber training pants until they're big enough for Hanna Andersson panties. Those are absolutely worth the money. They last FOREVER.

[GSOchristie]

Two of my kids were 19 months when they potty trained, 20 and 21 pounds, and I put them both in 2T undies. Piper was still wearing 12 month clothes and Jax was in 18 months. They were a little saggy in the booty, actually, Piper's still are :), but ey didn't mind. I def would not put him in a cloth diaper. Also, they both had to be put on the potty for a llloooonnngggg time. I still have to put Piper on every time. Neither of them did very well with the little potty, they did better just telling me they needed to go. My boys both peed sitting backwards, I just recently let Jax stand in front of the potty. He's very small, so he points up, making a huge mess >.<. I did naked potty training for 2 weeks with each of mine, which I know you said he fell, but I found at if my kids COULD control it, they did when naked. Jax would pee in undies, but never once peed on himself.