I need advice re: packrat husband

[kristinannie]

My husband is a huge packrat. He has so much stuff and it is everywhere. I will clean off the kitchen counter and within 24 hours it is covered in stuff. I honestly don't even know where it comes from! I just started getting a cleaning lady to help me since I have started working part time. I told my husband two weeks ago that she was coming today and he said he would pick up his stuff. He picked up some, but there was no way she could clean today. So, I cleaned it. I threw away trash and put all of his stuff into a laundry basket for him to deal with when he gets home. Anyway, he is very angry and keeps telling me that I threw away things he needed. I directed him to the laundry basket, but he says all kinds of things are missing. I know that several of those items were not items that I even touched today. One thing I am sure that he took to work several weeks ago and I haven't seen it since.

 

Do any of you deal with this? I am truly at a loss as to how to handle this situation. I love my husband very much and he is a wonderful husband and father. He grew up in a house that was seriously cluttered (his mom might even be a hoarder). I don't think he understands that the house is a mess (although he is always yelling at the kids about their toys). I just don't think he knows that you can live in a house that doesn't have junk everywhere! I am so much calmer in a clean house and I am sure that he will be too!

 

I just need to live in a house that isn't cluttered. I feel like I am losing my mind. Any advice?

[butterflymommy]

My husband is a hoarder. We have to designate sections of the house where he can hoard, and everywhere else is off limits. Is something like this a possibility? Also I draw the line at anything that would attract bugs or rodents, like food (yuck). One thing DH hoards is cardboard and for a while he was hoarding cardboard that had been part of food packaging but I got him to stop that.

[jeninok]

My husband has his own bookshelf, and a desk, as well as a laundry basket for things with no home. I routinely stack his papers and "stuff" in those areas. Moving is what actually helped the most, I got rid of TONS and TONS of crap, he only freaked out about a few of them, and only two things were rescued from the donate pile. Dh isn't a hoarder, but he grew up poor, on a farm, and has full blown hoarders in his family. I honestly think if his tendencies were much worse, I would need someone to help with counseling or a professional organizer to help him understand. This can come from a deep seated anxiety about not having enough, or it can be related to ADD, or can be a form of OCD gone wonky. Pretty sure he has some of all of those, but isn't a severe case.

 

He is slowly learning that we don't need so much stuff, and that he will replace that ratty shirt with a new one, and for not much money, because he works in the back end of retail store and gets a discount.

 

I do have ADD, and need to not have an overwhelming amount of objects to deal with, or I just can't keep up and keep things decent.

[alisoncooks]

My DH is like this, also. I often get accused of throwing away important items -- but my reply is always "If it was important, it wouldn't have sat on the counter for a MONTH!" I haven't found a way to resolve this. We have a very small house, and there is no spare room to make him his own space, which I'm sure is part of the problem.

 

(My DH also grew up poor and in a very messy/cluttered/hoarder-like home.)

[3andme]

My dh and I have the opposite dynamic. He is very neat and gets stressed when things aren't put away or appear cluttered. I on the other hand like to put things in piles and spread them out where i can see them. I can also ignore clutter very easily. This difference has been a source of conflict with us for a long time but we finally agreed to certain zones that would be kept clutter free. If my items are in those zones, he can just put them in a box or bag. I would recommend starting with just a few zones that are really important. For example, clear counters in the kitchen. Make it something that is achievable without too much effort and give time for new habits to be established before adding new areas.

 

Even if you are annoyed along the way, give lots of compliments for keeping things uncluttered and remind him how good it makes you feel when things are neat. My dh has been very good about this and it inspires me to try to improve since it makes him happier and we have fewer arguments.

[Tracy]

I have a similar situation. I am not that neat myself, and my dh brings home all sorts of things with lots of plans for them, but then never really gets to them. He also has full-blown hoarders in his family.

 

I have subscribed to FlyLady and have become very inspired by her philosophy on clutter. Anything that is not currently blessing your home and family should be either thrown away or given as a blessing to someone else. Also, just 15 minutes de-cluttering are allowed at a time. I am getting ready to spend my summer de-cluttering, and I have warned dh. He is pretty easy-going, so I think it will be okay.

[Anne in CA]

When my dh was on business trips I would discretely get rid of stuff I knew to be utter junk. I got rid of three suitcases of clothes he had been keeping since the 80's in 2000 and never looked back, lol. I also went through all his paper work, 15 minutes at a time for several weeks and threw away credit card offers, and stuff like that. He never even knew that was gone. I filled the suitcases up with things we needed to keep, ect. We had several fights about my need for some clean space. Until I really had several fits he could not process that I need to have a room that I can bring company into, that I need the counters in the kitchen to cook, that I can't sleep if I am staring at a pile of junk on the dresser. I let it go for too long, and then it took real fighting to rein it in. We probably should have gone to counseling, but he wouldn't have gone.

 

Like most other responders, dh's mother is probably a hoarder and once had a huge fit when my dd, then 4, threw away a crayon. Dh probably cannot be completely at peace when things are too tidy. He needs some rat's nests of things in every room. Over the years I make sure that most of them are out of sight most of the time and I do get rid of things when he cannot.

 

I am sorry about his being angry when he thinks you threw away things he needs. My dh does that also. He loses things in his clutter and then blames me for losing them because I am the one who throws things away. The number of things he keeps could not be kept track of, but treating me poorly because he cannot do it is not acceptable. I would call your dh out on that firmly and lovingly if it were me.

[blondchen]

Unless you have already done this, the first step would be talking to him about your need for an uncluttered space. If he is a good husband, as you say, he should at least validate your need in that and be willing to do something about it. On the other hand, it's important for you to understand and validate his need to have some mess and to maintain control over his own stuff (even if that need seems crazy to you - it's just how he is and only he can change that, and he'll do so if/when he wants to).

 

So, if you can get to a place of mutual understanding and acceptance of your conflicting needs, the next step is to come up with a practical compromise that allows you both to get your needs met on some level. One idea would be to designate a laundry basket or other such place that's out of sight where his stuff can be put - as is - if it's in your way. He needs to be responsible for his stuff, and if he leaves it lying around, then you'd have some recourse for getting it out of your way. If the problem is that he hoards things (as opposed to just leaving clutter around), then discuss with him how much space he thinks is reasonable - considering the size of your house - to be designated for stuff that only HE wants to keep (maybe a closet or something?). At the same time, if you agree to not throw anything away - including stuff that looks like trash to you - then he can't get upset about that, because you can say that it's all there but he just needs to be responsible for dealing with it. The hard part would come if the basket/closet is full and he still hasn't gone through it, in which case you and he need to decide what will happen then. Perhaps ask him to agree to clean it out if it gets full or you will do it for him if he doesn't keep his end of the bargain (since you'd only be doing that because it directly affects YOU and your ability to get his stuff out of your space).

 

The most important thing in a situation like this is to NOT try to change him or control him. That is not your job, and validating his needs (however irrational they seem) and loving and accepting him in spite of this thing that annoys you will be a huge boost to your marriage. Ask me how I know... ;)

[Mandamom]

I would suggest doing some reading on hoarding and some of the behavior patterns associated with it. It frequently comes out of anxiety, OCD, ADHD, etc. and it has been seen in many of the hoarding shows -- you can get rid of the stuff -- clean out the room/house -- but the if the thought processes are still there you won't stop the hoarding and the house/room will become a mess again.

 

Hoarding behaviors can be seen in several generations of families. You might be able to get him to agree to contain his things or limit the area where he can leave those things.

 

 

#1) See if you can get him to limit where his things are in the house (room, box, etc.) and you can move his things to that area anytime you need to clean up.

 

#2) Talk to him gently about getting him to prioritize what he needs to keep and what can be decluttered. If he takes ownership of the decluttering it will likely improve his thought processes.

 

#3) counseling can sometimes help turn the corner.

 

Due to family members I have done a bunch of reading on this subject.

 

Good luck.

[TraceyS/FL]

My dh and I have the opposite dynamic. He is very neat and gets stressed when things aren't put away or appear cluttered. I on the other hand like to put things in piles and spread them out where i can see them. I can also ignore clutter very easily. This difference has been a source of conflict with us for a long time but we finally agreed to certain zones that would be kept clutter free. If my items are in those zones, he can just put them in a box or bag. I would recommend starting with just a few zones that are really important. For example, clear counters in the kitchen. Make it something that is achievable without too much effort and give time for new habits to be established before adding new areas.

 

Even if you are annoyed along the way, give lots of compliments for keeping things uncluttered and remind him how good it makes you feel when things are neat. My dh has been very good about this and it inspires me to try to improve since it makes him happier and we have fewer arguments.

Thank you for posting this!

 

I have wayyyy to much clutter, and when my boyfriend visits it stresses him out. I'm slowly working on it (I'm going to school full-time, homeschooling and dealing with kid medical stuff), but I have validated his need for a space to work when he is here. I can ignore the clutter - he can't. You have given me some ideas to hash out before he is here for the next visit.

[kiwik]

He probably thinks you are weird. Why be tidy all the time. It is just as big a problem as too much clutter.

[kristinannie]

Thanks so much for your replies. I am definitely not a neat freak. I just want to keep the house in a condition where people can come over without a two day notice! Honestly, I agree with the room or closet, but that is already in effect in our house. Our master bedroom, an extra room, the garage, and all the closets are completely full. There is literally a path in my master bedroom to get to the bathroom. I basically just want to be able to keep the main living areas clutter free (kitchen, living room, and school room). I have watched the hoarder shows and it just makes me depressed! I don't really think he is a full on hoarder. I do think he does form unnatural bonds to objects though. I see the same thing in my son (but much worse). He literally falls apart if I throw away a wrapper or a band aid (not all the time, but sometimes). It really scares me. Is counseling a good option for a 6 year old or is this something I can work on myself? I have to say it scares me.

[alisoncooks]

I see the same thing in my son (but much worse). He literally falls apart if I throw away a wrapper or a band aid (not all the time, but sometimes). It really scares me. Is counseling a good option for a 6 year old or is this something I can work on myself? I have to say it scares me.

 

I replied earlier in the thread re: my husband....

But it's funny you mentioned your child... I see the same thing with my 6 yo daughter. She gets attached to things -- part of her problem is she has *plans* for these things (and yep, it's stuff I'd consider trash, like paper wrappers and scraps of ribbon). She has plans for things she wants to do with it (but being 6, she can't do all that she envisions, so it all just sits in boxes and piles...but she doesn't want to throw it away).

[sewingmama]

Oh yes I can identify. We have a shedful of carp that DH has moved around the world.....from Canada, to South Korea,to Canada and three moves in Australia. He has never opened a box of it in 10 years but will not throw it out.

 

He sleeps in his own room because I cannot sleep in such a cluttered room. We are moving in 4 weeks to a house half the size so we have to reduce. DH keeps telling me and the kids to get rid of our stuff but he won't reduce his.

 

I've just had it ...and am done with lugging it around and living with it. While DH is at work I have thrown bags and bags of his stuff in the bin. I actually have to take it to the dumpster at the local school otherwise if DH sees it in our trash can he takes it out !!!

 

Even with this we are overflowing. He still has old university assignments...not just one copy but 25!!!!!

 

It's a never ending battle that drives me nuts. The more I get rid of the more he brings into the house. He loves to shop at at thrift stores buying junk we don't need.

 

His mother is the same so it doesn't surprise me. I'm glad I don't live in Canada because when I was there she palms all her stuff off on me. She was here for Christmas and when she left I got rid of 6 bags of stuff she had given the kids that we just had no room for.

 

It's an ongoing nightmare around here.

[duckens]

I am the clutterhound in our house. I could be on my way to being a hoarder.

 

Loverboy commented to me recently that he knew how poor I had been for years before he met me, and that he knows that it is hard to toss things out because one does not know if one will have the resources to replace it if it was ever needed in the future. I also grew up in a family that was a lot poorer than I realized at the time (no health insurance, no college fund, and we owned our house, but had no money to finish the remodel or paint the outside). Both of my parents are hoarders.

 

I know things are bad when it bothers even ME.

--not being able to find something

--computer desk too cluttered to use fully

--island in kitchen is currently full of junk, so no extra projects like making cookies or big art

--small room is too full to reach things at the far end; cannot find things without rearranging boxes; cannot find things at all.

 

Some things that have worked for me:

 

It is overwhelming and emotional to deal with my junk piles. Here are some strategies. I do not know if it will work for anyone else.

 

1) Sometimes I lock myself in the bedroom to clean out a basket. I make the bed first to have a flat surface. Loverboy entertains the kids.

 

2) To deal with feeling overwhelmed, sometimes I set mini-goals: "I will clean off 20 items from the island." The counting helps with whatever form of obsessive-control my clutter comes in. I don't know if it would help anyone else. Also, if I have cleaned off my 20 or 30 or 100 things (divided into groups of 20), then I am entitled to sit down and relax and not feel guilty or bad about the state of the house.

 

3 )As I put away things, for every item I put ON a cluttered place (suppose I piled something on my desk from the island), I must remove TWO items from the desk to put away.

 

4) Put away easy things first. Right now on our island, I can see: an ace bandage, a wood project of dd6, markers, glue, stapler, and old dvd remote, a towel, the lava lamp, and the Nook. Most of these items have a specific and easy home.

 

5) The hard stuff is usually the last 5%. These are usually paperwork or projects that need just a little work. These items are not done until they have been "processed" and have a specific home. Simply putting them on the desk in a pile doesn't count. Loverboy knows that he must run interference with the kids while I finish these last items. It is soooooooo hard to finish these last items because of mental blocks on my part.

 

6) In my old apartment, I would work until a small garbage can (lined with a grocery sack) was full. When I was on a roll, I did one every day. Then I was entitled to relax. My apartment didn't get cluttered in 2 days; it will not be cleaned up in 2 days.

 

7) I must be vocal and specific with Loverboy when I need things removed from the house. Often, I sort out things for donation, and I just.can't. seem. to get it to [charity of choice]. Loverboy lovingly packs the items in his car and drops them off before or after work.

 

 

Please take the good advice of a pp: don't go telling your hoarder partner how to clean up their mess. Ask how you can help the best. As you can see above, I have a LOT of support from Loverboy.

 

---------------------------------------------

Several friends of mine have talked about watching episodes of "Hoarders" and how it motivates them to clean out and donate away ~2 boxes/episode.

 

Hoarding: Buried Alive is available on Netflix Instantwatch.

 

Disclaimer: I have not watched any of the hoarding shows.

[Chris in VA]

I am reading an EXCELLENT book on hoarding (and for those who love hoarders, and also for those who may feel they aren't hoarders but may be close). I got it from the library. It's called Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding, by Fugen Neziroglu (and 2 others). It's so good, because it talks in depth about the different types of hoarding, the fear that makes people hoard, and things you can do about it.

 

I can't recommend it enough!

[kristinannie]

 

 

His mother is the same so it doesn't surprise me. I'm glad I don't live in Canada because when I was there she palms all her stuff off on me. She was here for Christmas and when she left I got rid of 6 bags of stuff she had given the kids that we just had no room for.

 

 

 

I had to laugh about this. We had a huge room at our old house that was filled with my MIL's stuff. When we moved, I refused to take any of it. She came over and her husband wouldn't let her take it home so it all went to charity or the trash. We had it for 12 years for NOTHING. I was so upset, but glad that we didn't have to take it with us.

[MindyD]

The biggest thing that helped my dh was having to pack up his mother's house when she moved. She could. not. get rid of anything. She's a hoarder. When we were halfway through loading the moving truck, he found me in a room packing, gave me a hug, and whispered "I'm getting rid of my junk. I don't want anyone to have to do this for me."