What does morbidly obese mean to you?

[Joanne]

Unfortunately, I know about morbid obesity. My sister was morbidly obese, truly obese (not like your son!). She weighed 250 lbs and was 5'2". It was so hard for her to walk around she didn't do very much. She became very inactive and when you are so heavy and do so little, you have to eat very little to maintain your weight. She didn't eat all the time, she didn't eat very much. She just never could get caught up on it once it passed a certain point.

 

Morbid obesity is what cost my sister her life. She was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer two weeks before she died. She didn't know anything was wrong until she began having pain, and there was a grapefruit sized tumor growing in her abdomen. No one knew it because you couldn't see it like you would in a smaller person. Her body could not handle the stress at all and she died two weeks after she was admitted into the hospital for testing. At the end, her kidneys gave out before she could start chemo. All they were able to do was drain the cancerous liquid that the tumor was producing, and that was enough to send her kidneys over the edge.

 

My sister is the reason I've gotten so into health foods and getting healthy from the inside out. It doesn't matter what you look like on the outside- what matters is what's going on in the inside.

 

 

Hmmm. At my highest, I weighed 244. I am 5'5". This was only a month or so ago. I work several jobs, wear size 18s, sometimes 20s. It is not hard for me to walk - although I do get winded doing stairs and I'd like to overcome that as I lose weight. I am on my feet many of the hours of my jobs, and I "get around" a lot and am very busy.

 

That's why the weight/height itself is basically meaningless to me.

 

The didn't eat very much/ate very little is a sign, to me, that she was highly metabolically resistant and that her body reacted to carbs in a diseased way, *creating* obesity. It's a sick cycle.

 

If you compared what I eat to that of most thin people, calorie wise, I'd consume the same or less. No, really. It's not about acitivty, either. Losing weight is more than 90% diet. Getting *fit* is about exercise, but losing (or gaining) weight typically is not.

[StaceyinLA]

As others have said, morbidly obese is just a medical term meaning weight at least 100% over normal healthy weight for height. It's not a criticism or a negative label or a sign that your child is doomed to poor health.

 

 

I actually looked this up and did read that morbid obesity begins at being 50% over your ideal weight, up to 100% and/or 100 pounds overweight. I guess it depends on your ideal weight.

 

I don't think this has relevance to this particular thread, but I did want to clarify that you don't have to be double your healthy weight to be considered morbidly obese.

[wapiti]

The didn't eat very much/ate very little is a sign, to me, that she was highly metabolically resistant and that her body reacted to carbs in a diseased way, *creating* obesity. It's a sick cycle.

 

 

This. I would do some reading on the effect of carbs on insulin and how insulin regulates fat cells.

 

There is controversy over what is "healthy" food and what is not, and of course the body's response will vary from person to person. (For example, a normal-sized greasy burger without a bun or other carbs - for my body that would qualify as "healthy." Anything more than minimal fruit, not so much.)

[Spy Car]

I just realized I failed to post what was a very log response the other day.

 

The short version.

 

Consider family walks. And if you do that try doing "intervals." That is walk at a reasonable pace, then "push it" over a distance and speed that is appropriate to your condition (but enough to make your cheeks red) and then drop back to a slower pace for "recovery." Then repeat. This sort of interval training is the fastest way to build aerobic endurance. Don't over do it, but pace-push-recovery cycles are much better than pace walking.

 

Also consider strength staining for the boy. The old thinking was kids didn't benefit from strength training due to lack of post-adolescent hormones. That thnking has been shown to be wrong.

 

Lastly, break the physiological "junk food" syndrome. Food scientists know very well that if they combine the right mix of sugar, salt, fat, and mouth-feel they will have you hooked. The pleasure centers of brains are wired to pump out satisfying chemicals in response to such foods. But it becomes an addiction.

 

The good news is the mind and palate can be re-set to enjoying natural foods, but to do so the junk (including the homemade treats) must be eliminated completely during the transition. It is not that the treats are so inherently bad in themselves (the body can handle a little junk) but the mind and palate will not re-set to natural food as long as junk food/pleasure cycle remains unbroken.

 

Try delicious homemade soups with vegetables.

 

I do not want to be mean in making the comparision, but our boys are the same age. My son (at 4' 7") is an inch shorter, but weighs in at an athletic-slender 65 lbs. I would take weighing 123 lbs very seriously. That, In my non-expert opinion, is potentially life threatening (and certainly quality-of-life threatening).

 

Taking the nurses blunt words as a "wake up call" rather than an insult is the smart move.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[klmama]

OP, I just wanted to tell you about a boy I grew up with. He weighed 140 lbs. in 4th grade; he was extremely overweight and not particularly tall. He loved sports, though, and played them all as much as he could. By ninth grade he had grown to be 6' tall, and he still weighed 140 lbs. (I know because he was quite proud of not having gained weight for so many years.) By high school graduation, he weighed about 170. He played football, basketball, and baseball, and he ran track. He was all-conference in all of them. So, there's hope! Try to get your little guy to be more active and help him make wise food choices, and as he grows everything may be fine. :grouphug:

[Embassy]

My boys are naturally sedentary and I've had to make PE one of the most important parts of our school day. Dr. Sears (book referenced earlier) recommends that every minute of screen time is matched by a minute of exercise. As I type this my son is on the treadmill. My boys are required to run/ fast walk a mile each school day and I only allow them 30 minutes to complete the mile so slow walking won't cut it. In addition they also have an active play time. I do sweat checks. I require them to get sweaty. The days when they have swimming lessons are their least active day. I don't require exercise on the weekends, but if they want more screen time they need to exercise.

 

I do weight and height checks once per month, but my kids don't know why other than to track how they are growing. I would be wary about mentioning dieting or even talking about your child being overweight and needing to exercise or eat right because of it. Let the reason for exercise and eating well be because you are making healthy choices.

[Laura Corin]

My boys are naturally sedentary and I've had to make PE one of the most important parts of our school day. Dr. Sears (book referenced earlier) recommends that every minute of screen time is matched by a minute of exercise. As I type this my son is on the treadmill. My boys are required to run/ fast walk a mile each school day and I only allow them 30 minutes to complete the mile so slow walking won't cut it. In addition they also have an active play time. I do sweat checks. I require them to get sweaty. The days when they have swimming lessons are their least active day. I don't require exercise on the weekends, but if they want more screen time they need to exercise.

 

 

This is what we did: essentially an hour of red in the face exercise per week day. At weekends they exhausted themselves playing outside with friends.

 

When they were small, I would walk fast and they would run. As they got bigger, they had to run laps around me.

 

Laura

[Sara in AZ]

My boys are naturally sedentary and I've had to make PE one of the most important parts of our school day. Dr. Sears (book referenced earlier) recommends that every minute of screen time is matched by a minute of exercise. As I type this my son is on the treadmill. My boys are required to run/ fast walk a mile each school day and I only allow them 30 minutes to complete the mile so slow walking won't cut it. In addition they also have an active play time. I do sweat checks. I require them to get sweaty. The days when they have swimming lessons are their least active day. I don't require exercise on the weekends, but if they want more screen time they need to exercise.

 

I do weight and height checks once per month, but my kids don't know why other than to track how they are growing. I would be wary about mentioning dieting or even talking about your child being overweight and needing to exercise or eat right because of it. Let the reason for exercise and eating well be because you are making healthy choices.

 

 

I love this! One mile a day. That is so measurable. I like the sneaky height/weight checks, too. I don't want him to obsess about weight, and he's starting to a little bit.

[Catwoman]

I love this! One mile a day. That is so measurable. I like the sneaky height/weight checks, too. I don't want him to obsess about weight, and he's starting to a little bit.

 

I wouldn't even mention the diet stuff to him. Just start offering new and different snacks that you bought or made as a special treat for him (not because they're healthier or lower in calories or whatever.) And make the exercise a fun thing -- or say you want to get back in shape, so you're going to make the walking a new, fun thing for your family to do together.

 

If he's starting to obsess about his weight, remove all weight-related talk and diet-related talk from your conversations, and work covertly at making changes without discussing the reasons for them. Also, I don't think this is a situation where sweeping, immediate changes are necessary, so you can work slowly at developing new and better habits.

[Spy Car]

 

 

I wouldn't even mention the diet stuff to him. Just start offering new and different snacks that you bought or made as a special treat for him (not because they're healthier or lower in calories or whatever.) And make the exercise a fun thing -- or say you want to get back in shape, so you're going to make the walking a new, fun thing for your family to do together.

 

If he's starting to obsess about his weight, remove all weight-related talk and diet-related talk from your conversations, and work covertly at making changes without discussing the reasons for them. Also, I don't think this is a situation where sweeping, immediate changes are necessary, so you can work slowly at developing new and better habits.

 

I disagree with the bolded. So long a food choices trigger the "junk food" pleasure response the mind and palate will never re-set to enjoying natural food. This cycle needs to be broken. The only way to do that is to cut out the junk 100%. Otherwise you're like the alcoholic that thinks they can only drink on weekends, or quit after one (or two). It just does not work.

 

Bill

 

 

[Catwoman]

I disagree with the bolded. So long a food choices trigger the "junk food" pleasure response the mind and palate will never re-set to enjoying natural food. This cycle needs to be broken. The only way to do that is to cut out the junk 100%. Otherwise you're like the alcoholic that thinks they can only drink on weekends, or quit after one (or two). It just does not work.

 

Bill

 

I don't believe that at all.

 

It doesn't have to be "all or nothing."

 

We eat healthy foods and we eat some junk foods, too. Neither negates our enjoyment of the other.

[Χά�ων]

I rather detest this trend of calling children obese. There are skinny children who live on candy and would not reconize a vegetable if it bit them but since they are skinny they are viewed as healthy even when they are clinically malnourished. Then there are children who are pudgy before puberty and then shoot up and suddenly height and weight come together perfectly. If you DS is not on his second bigmac meal in an hour and can get to the top of the mcdonalds playplace without having a heart attack he should be fine (assuming there is no underlying medical condition).

 

 

FWIW My ds is 4ft 9inches weighs 101lbs and his shoe size matches his age. For 2 and a half years he has been speed skating. As in skating 10-20 hours a week. Plus he has done other activities such as gymnastics, soccer in addition to speed skating. Right now he only skates 10-12 hours a week and does an intense cardio-core workout 2-3 hours a day. He eats a diet to suit his unique active lifestyle, he never eats fast food and I cook 90% of everything from scratch. Since early January I have had 3 specialist (for his medical condition) refer to him as obese (this seems to be doctor speak for "I don't know). I will admit that even though he is an inverted triangle shape already (I have enough rear for both us, and it's a good thing since he has none!) he does have a bit of belly pudginess. Somehow. I figure it will be gone after this years growth spurt, but for now it is there.

 

Oh I did have a pediatrician that he saw one time. She called him obese and tell me he needs more exercise. Then she said he needed to eat better. Then she said he needed to go to public school. Then she said that he did not actually have this horrid disease. I cannot say what I said on this forum but I think most everyone here can use their imaginations.

[Spy Car]

 

 

I don't believe that at all.

 

It doesn't have to be "all or nothing."

 

It does if you are not capable of enjoying fresh vegetables. Which is the case here. When one is locked in to "junk food syndrome" (a name of my creation) vegetables and greens taste unpalatably bitter. That is what is described here.

 

When that is the case the mind and palate craves junk, and is adverse to healthful natural food. That cycle needs to be broken (completely).

 

We eat healthy foods and we eat some junk foods, too. Neither negates our enjoyment of the other.

 

Sure. And non-alcoholics can enjoy an adult beverage without great risk of harm. A person who eats a basically heathful diet can afford a splurge. Normal natural food still tastes palatable to them. But when "junk food syndrome" takes over this is not the case.

 

It is not about the calories in the splurges, it is about re-setting the mind and palate to natural food. It is a very difficult transition to make as long as you keep triggering the pleasure response with junk. It is a form of addiction.

 

Bill

 

[RoundAbout]

I get taking issue with how pediatricians present things sometimes. I was annoyed when the doctor suggested Pediasure for my 4 year-old because his BMI was only 14 (at 98th percentile for height). Even if I had felt he needed to put on weight, giving him a sugar loaded beverage when he was more than happy to eat real food is not how I would have done it.

 

Still, I would definitely see this as a wake up call and would probably take extreme measures right away. I agree with SpyCar that cutting out all processed food is a great way to go. I don't even buy crackers anymore. There is an addictive taste to these foods and for most children there are enough opportunities outside the home for treats (birthday parties, holidays, Disneyland, etc.) that I think its really very possible to never bring this stuff into the house without depriving them.

 

Our go-to snacks here are: olives, nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese, and veggies with hummus. He loves this stuff. I occasionally buy sweeter stuff like mini-V8 cans, Lara bars, and trail mix with raisins and chocolate. These go into a box in the pantry called "Hiking/biking snacks" and he knows they are only for days when we do long hikes and rides (and I mean like all day hikes and 15 mile rides, not just riding around the neighborhood).

[Sara in AZ]

I actually agree with both of you, Bill and Catwoman, on this. My oldest DD is amazing at self regulation. She does just fine having a small treat once in a while and not binging. She's the kid who still has Halloween candy in her drawer.

 

I am a total sugar addict. It is all or nothing for me. I really can't do just a little. Which is why I really don't have anything tempting in my house. I can't handle it. I can, however, drive in my car to Sonic after a long hard day when the kids are finally in bed and get myself a delicious Peanutbutter cup Sonic blast. ;- )

 

DS is probably more like me. When he does get the junk it is at soccer games and socials and things we do outside our home. Or times when we're out as a family and want a treat. We can cut back on that.

 

I really do cook healthy meAls at home. I could clean up our lunch and breakfasts a bit. I love myself some syrupy goodness for breakfast, but I limit that to once a week. I try to limit cereal to once a week, but i should probably cut it out all together.

 

Thete us definitely room for improvement in our diet and exercise department.

[Sara in AZ]

I get taking issue with how pediatricians present things sometimes. I was annoyed when the doctor suggested Pediasure for my 4 year-old because his BMI was only 14 (at 98th percentile for height). Even if I had felt he needed to put on weight, giving him a sugar loaded beverage when he was more than happy to eat real food is not how I would have done it.

 

Still, I would definitely see this as a wake up call and would probably take extreme measures right away. I agree with SpyCar that cutting out all processed food is a great way to go. I don't even buy crackers anymore. There is an addictive taste to these foods and for most children there are enough opportunities outside the home for treats (birthday parties, holidays, Disneyland, etc.) that I think its really very possible to never bring this stuff into the house without depriving them.

 

Our go-to snacks here are: olives, nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese, and veggies with hummus. He loves this stuff. I occasionally buy sweeter stuff like mini-V8 cans, Lara bars, and trail mix with raisins and chocolate. These go into a box in the pantry called "Hiking/biking snacks" and he knows they are only for days when we do long hikes and rides (and I mean like all day hikes and 15 mile rides, not just riding around the neighborhood).

 

 

Yes, I agree with this. The closest thing to junk in my house is crackers and granola bars that I stock consistently to deal with DD's low blood sugars. She has to eat something with fat and protein when she is coming of a low, and those foods are the easiest and most portable that I've found. I have all the good stuff... Nuts, hummus, a bowl full of boiled eggs around all the time. I just need up figure out how to make it more appealing. Like Bill said,I probably do need to cut out any treats at all for a period if time until he can develops an appetite for the good stuff.

[Sara in AZ]

I get taking issue with how pediatricians present things sometimes. I was annoyed when the doctor suggested Pediasure for my 4 year-old because his BMI was only 14 (at 98th percentile for height). Even if I had felt he needed to put on weight, giving him a sugar loaded beverage when he was more than happy to eat real food is not how I would have done it.

 

Still, I would definitely see this as a wake up call and would probably take extreme measures right away. I agree with SpyCar that cutting out all processed food is a great way to go. I don't even buy crackers anymore. There is an addictive taste to these foods and for most children there are enough opportunities outside the home for treats (birthday parties, holidays, Disneyland, etc.) that I think its really very possible to never bring this stuff into the house without depriving them.

 

Our go-to snacks here are: olives, nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese, and veggies with hummus. He loves this stuff. I occasionally buy sweeter stuff like mini-V8 cans, Lara bars, and trail mix with raisins and chocolate. These go into a box in the pantry called "Hiking/biking snacks" and he knows they are only for days when we do long hikes and rides (and I mean like all day hikes and 15 mile rides, not just riding around the neighborhood).

 

 

Yes, I agree with this. The closest thing to junk in my house is crackers and granola bars that I stock consistently to deal with DD's low blood sugars. She has to eat something with fat and protein when she is coming of a low, and those foods are the easiest and most portable that I've found. I have all the good stuff... Nuts, hummus, a bowl full of boiled eggs around all the time. I just need up figure out how to make it more appealing. Like Bill said,I probably do need to cut out any treats at all for a period if time until he can develops an appetite for the good stuff.

[Sara in AZ]

I get taking issue with how pediatricians present things sometimes. I was annoyed when the doctor suggested Pediasure for my 4 year-old because his BMI was only 14 (at 98th percentile for height). Even if I had felt he needed to put on weight, giving him a sugar loaded beverage when he was more than happy to eat real food is not how I would have done it.

 

Still, I would definitely see this as a wake up call and would probably take extreme measures right away. I agree with SpyCar that cutting out all processed food is a great way to go. I don't even buy crackers anymore. There is an addictive taste to these foods and for most children there are enough opportunities outside the home for treats (birthday parties, holidays, Disneyland, etc.) that I think its really very possible to never bring this stuff into the house without depriving them.

 

Our go-to snacks here are: olives, nuts, hard boiled eggs, cheese, and veggies with hummus. He loves this stuff. I occasionally buy sweeter stuff like mini-V8 cans, Lara bars, and trail mix with raisins and chocolate. These go into a box in the pantry called "Hiking/biking snacks" and he knows they are only for days when we do long hikes and rides (and I mean like all day hikes and 15 mile rides, not just riding around the neighborhood).

 

 

Yes, I agree with this. The closest thing to junk in my house is crackers and granola bars that I stock consistently to deal with DD's low blood sugars. She has to eat something with fat and protein when she is coming of a low, and those foods are the easiest and most portable that I've found. I have all the good stuff... Nuts, hummus, a bowl full of boiled eggs around all the time. I just need up figure out how to make it more appealing. Like Bill said,I probably do need to cut out any treats at all for a period if time until he can develops an appetite for the good stuff.

[FaithManor]

I disagree with the bolded. So long a food choices trigger the "junk food" pleasure response the mind and palate will never re-set to enjoying natural food. This cycle needs to be broken. The only way to do that is to cut out the junk 100%. Otherwise you're like the alcoholic that thinks they can only drink on weekends, or quit after one (or two). It just does not work.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill, I have a tendancy to agree with this because in my own experience having to go gluten free was brutal and during the first three months if I was accidentally exposed - very easy in this society and especially when trying to eat soooooo carefully at events and yet not be able to see an ingredients list - the re-set in my head, the cravings for bread or crackers or whatever were just HUGE in addition to becoming sick from having eaten that darn gluten. The following week I would be headachy, cranky, etc. just like coming off a mild addiction. For adults and even older teens, I would always recommend just simply being miserable for three or four weeks, get it out of your system, and be done with the physical side effects of getting off the foods that are bad for you.

 

My only concern is what I know about children and eating disorders. This is a young child. A cold turkey approach may have psychological effects such as making him feel punished - "I'm a bad boy because I'm overweight!" - "I hate myself. The other kids can eat this and not have trouble why not me?" There are children when diagnosed with type 1 diabetes that have gone through this very thing, but they have a disease and it's not because they are "bad". There are usually nutritionists and nurses, pediatricians, and even child psychologists who are assigned to help the youngster confront the changes in his or her life. I've never seen a team like that work on a child who is strictly just being asked to lose weight. Both the medical community in general and society definitely can be very, very brutal to a child who has to "diet". Body image issues can be hard on adults, downright dangerous to children.

 

So, I think if the OP goes with a total cold turkey approach, not only does EVERYONE in the family have to do it, but I would seriously advise that a counselor or a loving, trusted pediatrician with mega experience in this matter - might be better coming from a pediatric endo because they are much more versed in these kinds of issues - spend some time with him, reassuring him that he's a great person and the ONLY reason he has to go through this is because everyone is concerned about his future health and that's it. Focus, focus, focus, on his good points. He may very likely need to hear a positive message from someone besides mom. Every kid knows mom is their main cheerleader. He needs to hear from the people that are saying he needs to lose weight that they think he's a wonderful person and they don't care a lick what he LOOKS like, they just want to safe guard his future health, period.

 

Otherwise, I think your advice is great.

 

Whatever you do OP, try to have the whole family take part in it with a sense of adventure and without any sense of condemnation. Anyone who complains about having to take part, should get a serious talking to out of earshot. Keep the family unit on the same page. This is what families do. They rally the troops and stand with each other, not against.

 

Faith

[Sara in AZ]

Oops, I didn't mean to triple post that. We just came from DD's quarterly visit with the endo for her diabetes (type 1) and I find it incredibly ironic that he NEVER talks to us about diet. Her weight is in the normal range (85 lbs. age 10, same height as her brother). I'm always told that she can eat whatever she wants as long as we cover it with enough insulin. But I know there are foods she should stay away from. She's almost guaranteed to have high blood sugar after a breakfast of cold cereal, but the doctor brushes me off whenever I mention it to him. We just avoid it as much as we can. So dumb.

[Sara in AZ]

And yes, Faith, it does need to be the whole family. We'll make it an adventure.

[Spy Car]

I actually agree with both of you, Bill and Catwoman, on this. My oldest DD is amazing at self regulation. She does just fine having a small treat once in a while and not binging. She's the kid who still has Halloween candy in her drawer.

 

I am a total sugar addict. It is all or nothing for me. I really can't do just a little. Which is why I really don't have anything tempting in my house. I can't handle it. I can, however, drive in my car to Sonic after a long hard day when the kids are finally in bed and get myself a delicious Peanutbutter cup Sonic blast. ;- )

 

DS is probably more like me. When he does get the junk it is at soccer games and socials and things we do outside our home. Or times when we're out as a family and want a treat. We can cut back on that.

 

I really do cook healthy meAls at home. I could clean up our lunch and breakfasts a bit. I love myself some syrupy goodness for breakfast, but I limit that to once a week. I try to limit cereal to once a week, but i should probably cut it out all together.

 

Thete us definitely room for improvement in our diet and exercise department.

 

 

My proposition is that as long as you have those occasional Sonic runs and breakfasts of sweet syrupy goodness—and when you do, your brain waves over with a rush of pleasant chemicals that makes you say "thank you, thank you, thank you— you've got a problem.

 

It is a physiological/psychological addiction to junk food. This is a very different condition to food than your daughter apparently has. She is not hooked. You are.

 

Take some months and re-set your mind and palate and you might be shocked at how sweet, salty and greasy the foods you once craved really are. Syrupy goodness might put you off. Maybe not. It could take years. But the mind and palate can re- set. And it is more far more important to develop the ability to enjoy heathful and nutritious food than to develop an aversion to junk.

 

I just think is is very difficult to get over the hump as long as you keep feeding the monster of addiction.

 

Bill

 

[beaners]

My nephew is a similar age, height, and weight. Depending on what he is wearing and how he is standing, he might not look "that heavy," but he is. I worry about him. It does affect his quality of life. His parents, especially his mother, try very hard. The grandparents don't want him to feel deprived. When we were all together for Thanksgiving, they were constantly passing around candy and cookies and snacks. If he has it available, he will eat it. His mom tries not to have as much in the house, but there are so many special occasions where that stuff creeps in.

 

For adults, I like the idea that you don't have to be fit enough to run a marathon, but your fitness and health shouldn't prevent you from participating in activities you enjoy. I think the emotional aspect of weight gain and weight loss for adults leads people to both overreact and underreact to children with a higher than ideal weight. It makes me sad and it worries me that there are children in my life who can't enjoy things like running around outside and jumping and playing because of their weight.

[Spy Car]

 

 

Bill, I have a tendancy to agree with this because in my own experience having to go gluten free was brutal and during the first three months if I was accidentally exposed - very easy in this society and especially when trying to eat soooooo carefully at events and yet not be able to see an ingredients list - the re-set in my head, the cravings for bread or crackers or whatever were just HUGE in addition to becoming sick from having eaten that darn gluten. The following week I would be headachy, cranky, etc. just like coming off a mild addiction. For adults and even older teens, I would always recommend just simply being miserable for three or four weeks, get it out of your system, and be done with the physical side effects of getting off the foods that are bad for you.

 

My only concern is what I know about children and eating disorders. This is a young child. A cold turkey approach may have psychological effects such as making him feel punished - "I'm a bad boy because I'm overweight!" - "I hate myself. The other kids can eat this and not have trouble why not me?" There are children when diagnosed with type 1 diabetes that have gone through this very thing, but they have a disease and it's not because they are "bad". There are usually nutritionists and nurses, pediatricians, and even child psychologists who are assigned to help the youngster confront the changes in his or her life. I've never seen a team like that work on a child who is strictly just being asked to lose weight. Both the medical community in general and society definitely can be very, very brutal to a child who has to "diet". Body image issues can be hard on adults, downright dangerous to children.

 

So, I think if the OP goes with a total cold turkey approach, not only does EVERYONE in the family have to do it, but I would seriously advise that a counselor or a loving, trusted pediatrician with mega experience in this matter - might be better coming from a pediatric endo because they are much more versed in these kinds of issues - spend some time with him, reassuring him that he's a great person and the ONLY reason he has to go through this is because everyone is concerned about his future health and that's it. Focus, focus, focus, on his good points. He may very likely need to hear a positive message from someone besides mom. Every kid knows mom is their main cheerleader. He needs to hear from the people that are saying he needs to lose weight that they think he's a wonderful person and they don't care a lick what he LOOKS like, they just want to safe guard his future health, period.

 

Otherwise, I think your advice is great.

 

Whatever you do OP, try to have the whole family take part in it with a sense of adventure and without any sense of condemnation. Anyone who complains about having to take part, should get a serious talking to out of earshot. Keep the family unit on the same page. This is what families do. They rally the troops and stand with each other, not against.

 

Faith

 

 

I think you are correct in saying one needs to be careful in not making good choices seem punative, nor in creating a complex of body image problems. I'm with you 100%.

 

However, I would have no problems having a forthright conversation about the psychologically (and physiologically) self-reinforcing nature of consuming foods rich in sugar, salt, and fat and low in fiber and nutrients. And how this sort of food both crowds out the place of natural and nutritious food, and makes natural foods taste unpalatable.

 

And discuss how vital it is to good heath to consume nutritious food, and how damaging it is to eat junk. He is old enough to understand this is true.

 

And, we're I the OP, I would be forthright about the fact that this sort of eating was my struggle too. It isn't likely that he is unaware of it.

 

So I'd frame the discussions positively. That we as a family are going to make positive changes in both diet and exercise with an eye to protecting all our lives. Facing the problem with candor and presenting a hopeful route forward I think would be a lot more reassuring than either ignoring a problem, or in coming off as punitive or punishing.

 

Bill

[Sara in AZ]

 

 

My proposition is that as long as you have those occasional Sonic runs and breakfasts of sweet syrupy goodness—and when you do, your brain waves over with a rush of pleasant chemicals that makes you say "thank you, thank you, thank you— you've got a problem.

 

It is a physiological/psychological addiction to junk food. This is a very different condition to food than your daughter apparently has. She is not hooked. You are.

 

Take some months and re-set your mind and palate and you might be shocked at how sweet, salty and greasy the foods you once craved really are. Syrupy goodness might put you off. Maybe not. It could take years. But the mind and palate can re- set. And it is more far more important to develop the ability to enjoy heathful and nutritious food than to develop an aversion to junk.

 

I just think is is very difficult to get over the hump as long as you keep feeding the monster of addiction.

 

Bill

 

 

I agree with this 100%, Bill. I've gone through periods in the past where I have successfully done detoxes and radically altered my diet. But then a pregnancy happens or some other stressful life situation happens, and it's tough to stick with, especially if the whole family isn't eating that way. I am such an emotional eater. Sugar us my coping mechanism and I'm really, really trying to change that for me. So I think the key is to just make these changes as a family, as had been mentioned. It would be a great gift to them that would affect the rest of their lives and hopefully help them avoid my pitfalls.

[FaithManor]

Agreed. I am NOT in favor of ignoring the problem or failing to be proactive. My only concern is for the emotional well-being of one so young.

 

Thanks Bill,

Faith

[Spy Car]

 

 

I agree with this 100%, Bill. I've gone through periods in the past where I have successfully done detoxes and radically altered my diet. But then a pregnancy happens or some other stressful life situation happens, and it's tough to stick with, especially if the whole family isn't eating that way. I am such an emotional eater. Sugar us my coping mechanism and I'm really, really trying to change that for me. So I think the key is to just make these changes as a family, as had been mentioned. It would be a great gift to them that would affect the rest of their lives and hopefully help them avoid my pitfalls.

 

 

It would be the greatest gift you could give.

 

Try the walks with the intervals. If you could only go one block after "pushing it" once cycle, you only go one block (that time). Persistence makes progress.

 

I wish I could give you a hug through the Internet. But a virtual hug, OK?

 

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

Agreed. I am NOT in favor of ignoring the problem or failing to be proactive. My only concern is for the emotional well-being of one so young.

 

Thanks Bill,

Faith

 

We share common concerns.

 

Bill

[Sara in AZ]

 

 

I think you are correct in saying one needs to be careful in not making good choices seem punative, not in not creating a complex of body image problems. I'm with you 100%.

 

However, I would have no problems having a forthright conversation about the psychologically (and physiologically) self-reinforcing nature of consuming foods rich in sugar, salt, and fat and low in fiber and nutrients. And how this sort of food both crowds out the place of natural and nutritious food, and makes natural foods taste unpalatable.

 

And discuss how vital it is to good heath to consume nutritious food, and how damaging it is to eat junk. He is old enough to understand this is true.

 

And, we're I the OP, I would be forthright about the fact that this sort of eating was my struggle too. It isn't likely that he is unaware of it.

 

So I'd frame the discussions positively. That we as a family are going to make positive changes in both diet and exercise with an eye to protecting all our lives. Facing the problem with candor and presenting a hopeful route forward I think would be a lot more reassuring than either ignoring a problem, or in coming off as punitive or punishing.

 

Bill

 

Yes, we should do more of this. He can handle it.

[Sara in AZ]

Ah, thanks for the hug, Bill! And for your kind concerns, Faith. :- )

[Sara in AZ]

 

 

At this age, part of health education is to understand what food is and isn't, as well as how to make a healthy meal with healthy portions. He needs to have that education, and participate in the decision making each time he decides what to ingest. 3rd glass of milk or water? should be a no brainer, but to get there it takes the family rallying around until it is an established habit.

 

The other part of health at this age is getting movement. I agree about not bothering with weight talk, but he needs to move. I have a neighbor who was chubby thru age 14..mama couldn't understand b/c gal was on her bike all day. A look closer showed that was the problem..she was on the bike, start/stop, never riding for a long time. She did more talking and sitting than anything on that bike and off . Once she started running with the track team, her weight dropped to appropriate. Part of the conversation in this child's P.E. class needs to be about movement -what affects the heart and builds aerobic strength, what helps with muscle development, and what a healthy day looks like in terms of activity.

 

Yes, we should definitely discuss this stuff. My wheels are turning already for some kind of health and nutrition study. Thank you!

 

We do talk about serving sizes a lot because if DD. Just now Josh asked if he could have a third taco for lunch, and I told him the serving size on the box of shells was 2. So he said okay, and decided he was thirsty instead. Good boy!

[Χά�ων]

One caution about organized sports: there is often a lot of time standing around doing nothing, especially at rec levels. Kids usually move more in practice than games but don't count on an hour of practice to be an hour of aerobic exercise.

 

I'm not saying it's not beneficial, just that often times, it's not aerobic.

 

This. This was a huge frustration for DS with all the other sports he has done. He has to move and the more he moves the more he needs to move. It drives him nuts that moving is not a part of practice.

[Χά�ων]

OP I saw the picture of your son, that is not fat. He is stocking and a bit pudgy which is not uncommon for big boys this age. When I get home I will try and find a picture of DS before his last growth spurt and post it, your DS is a little bit bigger but not that much.

[Sara in AZ]

OP I saw the picture of your son, that is not fat. He is stocking and a bit pudgy which is not uncommon for big boys this age. When I get home I will try and find a picture of DS before his last growth spurt and post it, your DS is a little bit bigger but not that much.

 

Thank you! I am optimistic that cleaning up our eating habits a bit and prioritizing exercise will get us all on the right track and help avert the problems he could have if he continues on his current trajectory.

[Joanne]

 

 

So, when you do the math, how many calories are you using?

 

I can walk around all day, at a pace that varies but is less than brisk and it's so slow that I don't burn more than 1500 cals for the entire day. That is nothing compared to typical american meals. Once I can get in a brisk walk of an hour and cycle for an hour at a decent aerobic pace, I can lose. Anything less, even on my feet all day walking here and there, means weight gain.

 

I am afraid my answers are of no use to you. I don't believe in the traditional calories in/ caolories out paradigm.

 

In a post above, there is some speculation about weight gain and caloric intake that is **categorically** against what my research and experience leads me to conclude.

 

A lightly eating fat person has something ELSE wrong with them; it is not a fat and lazy disease. Trust me when I tell you that, using taditional diet math, I should be a size 6.

 

My oldest has the some insulin issue. He is my most active and is obese.

[Spy Car]

Hate to be the voice of tough-love, but packaged taco shells are junk food. Loaded with salt and bad fats. Sorry. This stuff has got to go.

 

Bill (relentless :D)

[Sara in AZ]

Hate to be the voice of tough-love, but packaged taco shells are junk food. Loaded with salt and bad fats. Sorry. This stuff has got to go.

 

Bill (relentless :D)

 

I know. I knew someone would call me on that.

;- ) Those shells have been in the cupboard for a long time. I almost made a packaged Mac n cheese (which I only do once a week, and I put peas in it, but I'm planning to stop buying that) and I saw those shells and thought they'd be a better vehicle for getting some protein and vegetables into him. He ate beans without complaining!

[Sara in AZ]

 

 

You could make your own. He might even have fun trying that out.

 

Mac and cheese or taco shells?

[RoundAbout]

Hate to be the voice of tough-love, but packaged taco shells are junk food. Loaded with salt and bad fats. Sorry. This stuff has got to go.

 

Bill (relentless :D)

 

 

:iagree:

 

Plus, if you use more natural foods then I don't think you have to worry about servings sizes as much.

 

For example taco bowls for lunch are a staple around here - black beans topped with ground beef (grassfed usually), shredded cheese, salsa, and avocado. My kid can have as much as he wants because the black beans have tons of fiber and provide natural brakes for the appetite. The protein in the beef and the healthy fat in the avocado also help signal "enough." In contrast, the packaged taco shells end up making you hungrier and prime your taste buds for more salt and crunch.

 

This is why I agree about making radical changes. Once you start to see processed food as not really food at all, its easy to pass on.

[ktgrok]

It does if you are not capable of enjoying fresh vegetables. Which is the case here. When one is locked in to "junk food syndrome" (a name of my creation) vegetables and greens taste unpalatably bitter. That is what is described here.

 

When that is the case the mind and palate craves junk, and is adverse to healthful natural food. That cycle needs to be broken (completely).

 

 

 

Sure. And non-alcoholics can enjoy an adult beverage without great risk of harm. A person who eats a basically heathful diet can afford a splurge. Normal natural food still tastes palatable to them. But when "junk food syndrome" takes over this is not the case.

 

It is not about the calories in the splurges, it is about re-setting the mind and palate to natural food. It is a very difficult transition to make as long as you keep triggering the pleasure response with junk. It is a form of addiction.

 

Bill

 

 

agreed. and i almost never agree with Bill. But he describes my situation perfectly.

[Sara in AZ]

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Plus, if you use more natural foods then I don't think you have to worry about servings sizes as much.

 

For example taco bowls for lunch are a staple around here - black beans topped with ground beef (grassfed usually), shredded cheese, salsa, and avocado. My kid can have as much as he wants because the black beans have tons of fiber and provide natural brakes for the appetite. The protein in the beef and the healthy fat in the avocado also help signal "enough." In contrast, the packaged taco shells end up making you hungrier and prime your taste buds for more salt and crunch.

 

This is why I agree about making radical changes. Once you start to see processed food as not really food at all, its easy to pass on.

 

 

That's basically what he ate minus the shell. So there was no actuall taco involved in you bowl? Sounds plenty good without.

 

Was it Wendy who said she would make them? Tell me about that.

[ktgrok]

 

 

:iagree:

 

Plus, if you use more natural foods then I don't think you have to worry about servings sizes as much.

 

For example taco bowls for lunch are a staple around here - black beans topped with ground beef (grassfed usually), shredded cheese, salsa, and avocado. My kid can have as much as he wants because the black beans have tons of fiber and provide natural brakes for the appetite. The protein in the beef and the healthy fat in the avocado also help signal "enough." In contrast, the packaged taco shells end up making you hungrier and prime your taste buds for more salt and crunch.

 

This is why I agree about making radical changes. Once you start to see processed food as not really food at all, its easy to pass on.

 

 

 

Agreed. (although I have to pass on the beans...they are starchy enough fo rme that I will eat them and eat them and eat them..sigh). But yes, a bowl of say, shredded lettuce, red peppers, beef, onions, sour cream, and avocado will eave you actually full, whereas you could eat those taco shells until you puked and still want more. Or I could.

 

 

And yes, I was a veggie hater. Now, off sugar and grains tomatoes taste like candy.

[RoundAbout]

 

 

Agreed. (although I have to pass on the beans...they are starchy enough fo rme that I will eat them and eat them and eat them..sigh). But yes, a bowl of say, shredded lettuce, red peppers, beef, onions, sour cream, and avocado will eave you actually full, whereas you could eat those taco shells until you puked and still want more. Or I could.

 

 

 

Same here. I eat mine more as a salad, with lots of lettuce and just a handful of beans while DS has more beans.

 

And I totally agree about stuff tasting sweet. If I accidentally buy something like salsa with some sugar in it I can taste it immediately.

[RoundAbout]

That's basically what he ate minus the shell. So there was no actuall taco involved in you bowl? Sounds plenty good without.

 

 

Nope, no actual tortilla or taco involved. Really kind of a taco salad but more beans and no lettuce for DS. I eat mostly low carb. DS still has carbs, but I try to keep it in balance so if he has a sandwich for lunch we do something non-starchy for dinner. I especially keep the snacks very low-carb because its just way to easy to keep munching on that stuff way beyond hunger.

 

So for instance today DS had:

 

Breakfast: 2 pieces of bacon, 1/2 avocado, whole milk

Lunch: Grilled cheese sandwich on whole wheat with steamed broccoli, water

Dinner: Salmon patty with 2 kinds of veggies, water

 

Snacks: nuts, cheese, black olives, banana

 

Speaking from experience I think its really easy to think that you are only eating junk once in a while, but when you add up the occasional mac n'cheese with the occasional sugary granola bar with the occasional party cupcake, etc. etc. it can actually add up to having unhealthy food every day. Again, I'm speaking from experience because even though we've always eaten pretty clean its awfully easy to throw a package of cereal bars into the cart when you know you have a season of swim mornings or a long drive or whatever.

[Χά�ων]

Found out how to attach!

 

This is my son. 4ft 7inches and weighing 115lbs in December. For his full list of activities see above post. He is a big kid, not fat. He always bulks up in the winter then slims down in spring when he starts growing. If you quote please do not include the pictures, I plan to remove them in the future. I removed a lot of identifying information but still would prefer to not leave the pictures up.

[Sara in AZ]

Yes, RoundAbout, I'm sure that's true. I'm looking forward to keeping a food journal so I can see where my perception is skewed from reality and go from there.

 

Scratch only does get tiring!

 

Thanks for the taco shell ideas. Tonight's dinnner: Fiesta Quinoa Salad (new recipe I'm trying) and watermelon.

[Sara in AZ]

Thanks for posting the pics, momtoone. He does look like he has a similar build to my son. And it sounds like he's really active. My son wimps out of ice-skating in about 15 minutes because his ankles hurt. ;- )

 

DH has suggested we try wrestling. How's that for burning calories?

[Χά�ων]

Thanks for posting the pics, momtoone. He does look like he has a similar build to my son. And it sounds like he's really active. My son wimps out of ice-skating in about 15 minutes because his ankles hurt. ;- )

 

DH has suggested we try wrestling. How's that for burning calories?

 

If he was using rentals or cheap skates, I bet his ankles were hurting.

 

Depends on the wrestling program. I would suggest observing first. You also might look at a judo or jujitsu program, they tend to be year round (wrestling is not here but we live in the middle of nowhereville) look for a program that has minimal rest time and has a strong intense warm up, not just do 15 jumping jacks and 15 sit ups type of thing. See if you can get a program that is multiple times a week. Or check out local fitness clubs (not weights). Some have clases that they will allow 8 years olds to take that are fun. My DS prefers to go to the gym and take the classes with the male coaches.

[idnib]

I know. I knew someone would call me on that.

;- ) Those shells have been in the cupboard for a long time. I almost made a packaged Mac n cheese (which I only do once a week, and I put peas in it,

 

Since I've read the thread all the way through at one sitting, I've noticed there are a lot of sub-optimal things you do "only once a week". (Cereal, syrup, etc.) Make sure that's not an excuse you use. In theory a person could eat 100% junk and as long as they don't repeat during the week, it's all "only once a week"! :grouphug:

[Sara in AZ]

Since I've read the thread all the way through at one sitting, I've noticed there are a lot of sub-optimal things you do "only once a week". (Cereal, syrup, etc.) Make sure that's not an excuse you use. In theory a person could eat 100% junk and as long as they don't repeat during the week, it's all "only once a week"! :grouphug:

 

 

This a totally fair point to make. I know...cereal once a week, syrupy breakfast once a week, pasta once a week, mac and cheese once a week. Yep, it's not optimal to eat those foods. That's why I try to limit it.

 

But there are so many things on the list of optimal, you know. It'd sure be optimal to get my eight hours of sleep every night, and make sure that all six of us drink our eight glasses of water a day, and get in the hour of exercise, and practice our instruments, and read our scriptures, and eat three perfectly balanced cooked from scratch meals, and do all of our school work, and get all our chores done every.single.day. Perhaps if I ate optimally I'd have the energy to make sure all of that gets done perfectly. ;)

 

And I'm not trying to be contrary or defensive, I promise. I just have a hard time figuring out when to settle with good enough or, more typically, beat myself up about not being optimal. It's a hard balance to strike.