Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't have the time or energy to do this but the need is there and I need to step up to the need. Ds will be doing all school right next to me for the foreseeable future. Anyone else btdt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You might want to look into alternatives to "tomato staking." Maybe decide what your ultimate goal for your teen is, and then find creative ways to obtain that goal. Also, think about what your ultimate goals for you is. Sometimes, what we think is our goal for our kids is really for ourselves, and therein lies a great deal of conflict. Speaking from experience, "tomato staking" a teen creates all kinds of unforeseen complications that contribute to your fundamental problems, not solve them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't have the time or energy to do this but the need is there and I need to step up to the need. Ds will be doing all school right next to me for the foreseeable future. Anyone else btdt? He is 15? I will be interested in the responses....my neighbor has a 12/13 year old boy who is in constant trouble in public school and I suggested to her that he needs some major one on one attention......not sure how it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 You might want to look into alternatives to "tomato staking." Maybe decide what your ultimate goal for your teen is, and then find creative ways to obtain that goal. Also, think about what your ultimate goals for you is. Sometimes, what we think is our goal for our kids is really for ourselves, and therein lies a great deal of conflict. Speaking from experience, "tomato staking" a teen creates all kinds of unforeseen complications that contribute to your fundamental problems, not solve them. What would be alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Oh Jean, I about died laughing at the vision your title brought to mind. Yes, I have been there with my older son. He is easily distracted, believes that high performance is a result of "gift" not effort, and has wayward eyes when on the computer. He also has a great grin and a good heart. He sat next to me at the kitchen table all of the last semester of his junior year. I made him work every math problem, every stinkin' chemistry problem, and he had to show me the work step-by-step. Said with teeth gritted. We often stayed up until two in the morning and drank copious amounts of coffee. I was there every. step. of. the. way, showing him what was possible with focus and effort. Our relationship really took a turn for the better. Our relationship is still good, and I would like to report that all of that instruction in organizing oneself, and doing the work has paid off, but I can't. He had to be "staked" this year too. I haven't been nearly as gentle., because he can't plead ignorance this year. I am sorry you are going through this. The fact that no one can make me laugh harder, except their dad, is the only thing that saves my boys' lives on a daily basis. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 What would be alternatives? Depends on the goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nscribe Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Yup! Call me one of those "Topsy Turvy" tomato things that were so big a couple of years ago. I don't necessarily stand next to and provide tied in support, but I am often hanging upside down overhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nscribe Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Jean, are you ever just in sheer awe of the ways they can find to occupy themselves instead of completing the assigned task? Sometimes, I have to excuse myself to go far away and burst out laughing before I can apply the needed loving, but stern, support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Jean, are you ever just in sheer awe of the ways they can find to occupy themselves instead of completing the assigned task? Sometimes, I have to excuse myself to go far away and burst out laughing before I can apply the needed loving, but stern, support. Have you ever been so wrapped up in watching them go from one distraction to another that even you can no longer remember what they were supposed to be doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I definitely think you can tomato stake a teenager, but you have to first set the stage. It isn't a punishment but a way to help the teen get his bearings so that he can live in a responsible way. Teens get into bad habits, bad attitudes, feel lost, confused, distracted, feel off physically, etc. etc. Tomato staking works well. Especially if you have a teen who is ADD and really struggles to get his academic work done. BUT you can't do it with a resentful teen - first you have to break through that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 It is a wonder that there wasn't a new headline in the news this morning - "Murder in the Library". This kid! He did buckle down with me there (and the headphones confiscated). He now has three times as much accomplished on his history/lit. essay as he did even a week ago. He also has completed last Monday's (as in last week Monday's) logic with me as he argued with me every step of the way. And Lisa, we were in giggles together much of the time because while he is maddening, we both have a good relationship. There are a couple of goals: to actually finish the classes he is supposed to finish this year. To learn how to accomplish goals step by step instead of being distracted. To have the capacity to work independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Have you ever been so wrapped up in watching them go from one distraction to another that even you can no longer remember what they were supposed to be doing? :smilielol5: :smilielol5: Not Jean, but contemplating the exact same idea (tomato staking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 God has heard my prayers - his laptop has broken a key component making it impossible for him to spend all his time gaming. And no, I had nothing to do with it! (I'm trying to empathize with him while running to the bathroom to giggle.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't have the time or energy to do this but the need is there and I need to step up to the need. Ds will be doing all school right next to me for the foreseeable future. Anyone else btdt? Yup. I was planning to do exactly what you describe. Instead, I let Ds work on his own, but he had to report to me b/t subjects and record how much time was spent on each. I still might tomato stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 Yup. I was planning to do exactly what you describe. Instead, I let Ds work on his own, but he had to report to me b/t subjects and record how much time was spent on each. I still might tomato stake. That was the step before this one. It failed miserably- not because of the idea but because of ds. Now he is on to step 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 There are a couple of goals: to actually finish the classes he is supposed to finish this year. To learn how to accomplish goals step by step instead of being distracted. To have the capacity to work independently. What are his goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Oh Jean, I about died laughing at the vision your title brought to mind. Yes, I have been there with my older son. He is easily distracted, believes that high performance is a result of "gift" not effort, and has wayward eyes when on the computer. He also has a great grin and a good heart. He sat next to me at the kitchen table all of the last semester of his junior year. I made him work every math problem, every stinkin' chemistry problem, and he had to show me the work step-by-step. Said with teeth gritted. We often stayed up until two in the morning and drank copious amounts of coffee. I was there every. step. of. the. way, showing him what was possible with focus and effort. Our relationship really took a turn for the better. Our relationship is still good, and I would like to report that all of that instruction in organizing oneself, and doing the work has paid off, but I can't. He had to be "staked" this year too. I haven't been nearly as gentle., because he can't plead ignorance this year. Thank you for posting this. It was something I may have needed to hear right now. LOL. Although how in heckola do you manage that when there are all sorts of other things that need to be done? (Sort of a rhetorical question.) I think my son could possibly benefit from this, but I don't wanna! Plus I have a younger son who often gets the short end of the stick because he is naturally a good, focused worker. Sigh. I'm going to think about this a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 What are his goals? Let's see, how many started and then discarded goals has he had? Too many to count. He is frustrated at his own lack of discipline and focus. He needs help and is accepting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I had to do a lot of monitoring all through high school, but we never got to the point of actual tomato staking. I did send e-mails....from one end of the house to another...come see me in the school room, bring [very specific list included] and be prepared to discuss _________. BTDT with lure of distractions including but not limited to the computer. The broken laptop? :smilielol5: Hope it takes awhile to get it fixed. :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Sympathy hug here! From age 5 - 15, my ds, who is now 19 and majoring in engineering, NEVER EVER did a math assignment without me by his side. I remember just sitting there twitching, dying to leave the seat but aware that if I got up he would stop doing working on his math..... And no, I don't know what changed for him. The only only thing I can think of is that he started jogging around that time, so maybe his higher level of exercise helped? But maybe not. I assumed it was a maturity thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 It's amazing, all I need to do is change the password to the internet and all four kids are immediately sitting next to me, asking what it is they need to get done. I used to confiscate devices but I found it less work and less arguing when the internet suddenly goes dark. We have encyclopedias so if they need to research, then they still can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deannajo Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 God has heard my prayers - his laptop has broken a key component making it impossible for him to spend all his time gaming. And no, I had nothing to do with it! (I'm trying to empathize with him while running to the bathroom to giggle.) Bwahaha! I can't tell you how often I wish DD's computer would break and she'd loose her phone :-) I've got my response all worked out. Full on sympathy, with hidden maniacal laughter whenever I'm alone. Its going to be awesome! Who would have thought that her cheap laptop would be so reliable, and the kid that looses and forgets EVERYTHING can keep such a keen eye on that phone? What's up with that? She's typical early teen space-cadet with everything, but with that phone, some super-power kicks in and she never looses it, forgets it, breaks it, puts it in harms way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 see, in my house, when school day starts, all entertainment electronics end. any violation and there's no entertainment electronics for the rest of the day. we do most of the homeschooling in the dining room or computer room, which are across the hall from each other with wide doorways. I do sometimes let my teen take reading upstairs, but nothing else. his room is a disaster anyways. i actually make a checklist for him and for the first year he woudl always ask me what to do next and i'd tell him to check his list. he's finally getting better about getting his work done, so i'm nearby but not next to - but then i discover him writing 1-sentence responses and picking random answers in workbooks? and if i'm having an off week, i dont grade until the weekend, at which point it seems impossible to get back to it. mine is a junior! he definitely has issues. and no goals. i keep telling him he's going to community college and the work will be harder (i dont make him do that much), and he says he doesnt want to go . . yeah, he wants to sit around playing video games. not happening, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 OK - Geometry was a different issue. He doesn't understand this particular chapter and I can't help him. We have a tutor coming tomorrow afternoon. (I have a tutor who is willing to be "on call" for when he hits a wall since most of the time he does fine on his own.) Woo hoo! We're making progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I know a couple of people who have done it. I would have done it with one of my dc if I'd known about it or had the wherewithal to think of it on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 I didn't say so earlier but it was encouraging to know that I'm not alone in this. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerenlynne Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Never heard it called this but it is the only way work gets done consistently with DS. Yesterday let him work on an assignment by himself and he did well. Today got nothing done. Is there a rulebook for how to do this effectively as a training tool? It tends to be more of a punishment at my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 In the past, ds did think of it as a punishment. But I've talked to him at length about how I am trying to come along side of him to teach him how to do these things eventually on his own. I'm also making sure that I look carefully at where exactly the problem lies. In ds's case, today I discovered that it was only partly due to media and lack of focus. It was also due to him being unsure how to proceed in a couple of classes and instead of asking me :glare: he just sat there goofing off. So I'm taking an active part in helping him to proceed and learn the material. And in the one class where I couldn't do that, I've gotten him a tutor to do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I understand completely. I need stronger stakes for my 9th grader and extras because ds is precocious and needs to start now (he just turned 13). I'm going straight for the jumbo size now that I know where he is headed. :glare: :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheryl B in VA Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 In the past, ds did think of it as a punishment. But I've talked to him at length about how I am trying to come along side of him to teach him how to do these things eventually on his own. I'm also making sure that I look carefully at where exactly the problem lies. In ds's case, today I discovered that it was only partly due to media and lack of focus. It was also due to him being unsure how to proceed in a couple of classes and instead of asking me :glare: he just sat there goofing off. So I'm taking an active part in helping him to proceed and learn the material. And in the one class where I couldn't do that, I've gotten him a tutor to do just that. Yes! What I bolded in the above post is the problem half the time in my house. In history he would sometimes come to a question in which he might spend 30 minutes searching for the answer. I had to repeatedly tell him that the workbook was only 15% of his grade and if he came to a question that he could not find an answer to then he should skip it and we would discuss it while checking his work. My son likes to study in his room. I regularly have him show me his progress in any assignment. If I find that he is taking too long to complete then he comes to the same room that I am in. I will be so happy when he finishes his senior year which, at this pace, is looking like the end of June. Blessings, Cheryl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Today is a new day. This means new opportunities to make connections (personally as well as mentally) or to get bogged down in arguing. Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerenlynne Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 It was also due to him being unsure how to proceed in a couple of classes and instead of asking me :glare: he just sat there goofing off. This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 In the past, ds did think of it as a punishment. But I've talked to him at length about how I am trying to come along side of him to teach him how to do these things eventually on his own. I'm also making sure that I look carefully at where exactly the problem lies. In ds's case, today I discovered that it was only partly due to media and lack of focus. It was also due to him being unsure how to proceed in a couple of classes and instead of asking me :glare: he just sat there goofing off. So I'm taking an active part in helping him to proceed and learn the material. And in the one class where I couldn't do that, I've gotten him a tutor to do just that. I'm not sure homeschooling high school is much different than Kindergarten. Way back then, ds had the same problem as the bolded in private school. He wouldn't ask the teacher for help because he couldn't read a page, instead he'd talk to his friends. Then he'd get in trouble for talking and we thought THAT was the problem. He still would rather talk to me about something else than ask for help. We do most subjects with some interaction, because he'd be the same way now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 What gives me some comfort is knowing that even if he were in p.s. he would have the same problems - I would just be farther removed from the problem and wouldn't find out about it as quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live2Ride Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 My 3rd student is tomato staked...for a multitued of reasons, but it works for her. She needs it and understands that it's the way its going to work with her here for now. So far she has learned to do her homework (hasn't since 6th grade!) and learned to work better (she got real tired of correcting the same stuff so many times due to laziness). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nscribe Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 What gives me some comfort is knowing that even if he were in p.s. he would have the same problems - I would just be farther removed from the problem and wouldn't find out about it as quickly. Honestly, wouldn't we all prattle about ps parents who didn't see to it their kids are doing their homework? Maybe we just expect something that we shouldn't? Don't know, just thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Honestly, wouldn't we all prattle about ps parents who didn't see to it their kids are doing their homework? Maybe we just expect something that we shouldn't? Don't know, just thinking? Sure. But since the homework is handed into me here, I notice earlier than if I were waiting for a p.s teacher to alert me that it hadn't been received. And since he's doing his schoolwork here I will be able to track down why he's sitting there like a bump on a log sooner than if I couldn't see him. I only bring that up because my first instinct after banging my head against the wall, is to want to hand him off to someone else! I'm just reminding myself that the buck would still stop here - it would just be delayed a bit. Today is going great. We did logic together and had some wonderful discussions from gun control to taking over the world AFTER he had actually done the work. Note to self: don't tell a group of teen age boys that they can plot to take over the world if they limit it to their breaks. They will take this as a personal challenge! The tutor is here and is a God-send. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 There are a couple of goals: to actually finish the classes he is supposed to finish this year. To learn how to accomplish goals step by step instead of being distracted. To have the capacity to work independently. If you are talking about sitting next to a teenager while s/he works, yes, I've done that. I decided that I was replacing the positive peer pressure that he would have at school. It worked fine. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 If you are talking about sitting next to a teenager while s/he works, yes, I've done that. I decided that I was replacing the positive peer pressure that he would have at school. It worked fine. Laura In some classes, yes, it is just sitting next to him. In others, it s actually working with him and guiding him through the thought processes required. And in one class, we needed more than that - we needed the tutor who came today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerenlynne Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Honestly, wouldn't we all prattle about ps parents who didn't see to it their kids are doing their homework? Maybe we just expect something that we shouldn't? Don't know, just thinking? My own personal experience with the PS tells me that I would find out too late. DS has LD's and we kept him in PS because of the services. When he got to HS, even his IEP couldn't help him. You would think that the IEP would guarantee prompt notification of the fact that DS was failing multiple classes, but no. I received a hint of the problem in early October when we were setting up PTC that he was struggling, but counselor didn't seem too worried. By the time we had our "legally mandated" meeting it was nearly mid-semester and there was no way the grades were going to come up. Ultimately it was his fault, but I still am mad at teachers who knew DS had LDs and didn't think an email or a phone call to his parents might be a good idea. Probably a bad school district and it wouldn't happen everywhere, but I am glad to know daily when there are problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutu Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I do the staking, too, albeit not as regularly as I should. Right now I'm sitting here, just to be present. So far, so good. This thread has made me lol, and I feel more encouraged that there are others out there dealing with the same shenanigans. :scared: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailorMom Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 How do you think this would work with a kid with executive function issues? I worry I'd "stake" him and as soon as I stopped we'd be right back where we started... sigh. DS has little balls of grey matter in the white matter of his frontal lobes and geez do they mess with frontal lobe activity, lol. We both know this, but it doesn't change the reality that he HAS to figure out a way to manage things on his own before he goes to college.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't know. Part of what I'm doing is to simply ask him what he should be doing! Ie. I make him verbally tell me what he needs to do - set up a calendar, refer to the syllabus, break it down into steps (and delineate what steps). . . I'm there so he doesn't veer off into hyperspace while he does the actual work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nscribe Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I'm there so he doesn't veer off into hyperspace while he does the actual work. I am so going to have to assign Dd a write up on what happens to the drifting immovable bodies displaying lack of energy in hyperspace next time I see her drift...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiMom Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I've never heard it called "tomato staking" either, but it's what I'm doing with my 16 yo Grade 10 ds. He's ADHD and highly distractible. I tried letting him work on his own last year, but he just wouldn't stay off the internet. This year I have him sitting beside me so that I can monitor his computer use, and he is doing much better. He actually does his assigments whereas last year he was skipping a lot of stuff. He also really struggles with reading comprehension so I need to work with him on his literature and history assignments. For the most part this has been very helpful for him, but at times it does strain our relationship. It's very draining on me to have to spend the entire day sitting with him, and since I'm watching him all day I tend to micromanage him more than I should. My son really wants to be independent and struggles having me hovering over him. After all, he is a young man now and I really should be stepping back. So at times it can be rough. I also feel bad because I'm not spending very much time with my 13 yo Grade 8 dd. She's a good independent worker, but I really feel like I'm leaving her on her own too much and that we are missing out on a lot of great discussion time. So, for next year I am considering having my son do several online classes. This will give him focused instruction time (that isn't from me) and will give me time to spend with my dd. He's using BJU Biology online this year and doing very well with it. I hope this is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyDaddy Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I had to for a period of time with DS, now 14. In 6th grade, his first year of home school, he slacked off and got behind. I sat on him and made him do 2 days of Abeka per day at the dinner table with me until we caught up. Since then he gets up in the morning, takes a shower, has breadfast and goes to work on school without any prompting. He's in time4learning 8th grade now and is very reliable for getting all his work done, he's also taking extra classes thru coursera. I think the experience of getting behind and having to work hard to catch up was a good life lesson for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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