John taylor gatto is producing a movie...clip inside

[Halcyon]

Thoughts?

 

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/schools-are-prisons-1/the-purpose-of-schooling.html

[NotSoObvious]

Hmm. As a former teacher, I don't think that any of those are the intentions of schooling, but I do think many of them are, unfortunately, the outcomes of schooling.

There are a lot of dedicated educators working hard to create the best possible curriculum and environments for kids. However, education is a "system." There is one teacher for a large number of students and those students need to be predictably prepared for the next level in order to make the system function effectively. The system is constantly trying to be reworked to better fit the needs of kids, but so much of the control has been taken away from the educators who are truly the ones who should be making the decisions.

 

I think the entire notion of alternative education (including homeschooling) is largely a privilege. Many parents will never have those options. So, to spend energy vilifying the system that so many families count on, to me, is counterproductive. Instead, we should be working with our schools to create better programs and serve our communities.

 

 

[Carrie12345]

Holy crow on the drama charts, lol, but I loved it. It absolutely will not ever appeal to anyone who doesn't already doubt institutional schooling.

 

I think the entire notion of alternative education (including homeschooling) is largely a privilege. Many parents will never have those options. So, to spend energy vilifying the system that so many families count on, to me, is counterproductive. Instead, we should be working with our schools to create better programs and serve our communities.

 

I find that a very interesting point, considering that schooling was once largely a privilege withheld from many.

[NotSoObvious]

 

 

 

I find that a very interesting point, considering that schooling was once largely a privilege withheld from many.

 

Yep.

 

Sometimes I reflect on the vast amount of time I spend on my children's education- researching, planning, questioning- and weighing all my options. Then I think of my former students in South Central Los Angeles. Their parents worked two jobs and school was the very safest (elementary) place they could be. It was their only chance to do something better and to "get out." They did not have any other option. So, do we just allow poor families to continue to raise children who never have an opportunity to better themselves? How does that help us as a society? Do we ignore the needs of English language learners and assume that because we don't agree with universal preschool for our families, that it doesn't benefit others?

I don't believe public schools are the great equalizer (and if they are, we are failing), but I believe as a country, our biggest priority should be ensuring the very best education for all of our citizens. Those kids all eventually become contributors to society- or not. What do we want?

So what's the answer? I don't know. I do know MY answer is not an option for many people. So what about them?

[NotSoObvious]

Also, I'm not pro or anti public school. I believe in school choice and in school reform.

 

I don't think, like some liberals, that my kid should be taking one for the team and staying in the system just to make it better. My children are not pawns and there are other ways to support education.

 

Ok..totally off topic, I know.

[TheApprentice]

I didn't get the impression he was speaking of individual teachers and that they had ill intent. But schools are a government system and no matter how much we try to "improve" the schools, it will remain that, a system. And in systems, you need to control the product (students) and the outcome. So yeah, it's scary, but that is what is happening, be intentional or not.

[Sameera]

Thank you for sharing.

 

More info here: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

 

Listen to: '

' by John Taylor Gatto

 

As mentioned by Gatto, you can watch a movie about Jaime Escalante Stand & Deliver, (there are free versions of this video around, but those websites may have vulgar ads & pop ups).

 

See the DVD Stand and Deliver at Amazon There are also books written about Jaimes Escalante.

[Hedgehogs4]

 

I think the entire notion of alternative education (including homeschooling) is largely a privilege. Many parents will never have those options. So, to spend energy vilifying the system that so many families count on, to me, is counterproductive. Instead, we should be working with our schools to create better programs and serve our communities.

 

 

It used to be that literacy was a privilege preserved within the ranks of nobility and those who could afford the time to learn. Though we have come to the place where most people are functionally literate, the privilege now is the opportunity to think as a free and independent beings--the luxury of self-determination. Liberty of the mind is a privilege of those who can afford it...which is the ultimate literacy. So really, nothing has changed, has it?

[Aspasia]

I like a lot of what Gatto says in general, but I feel like this is a bit over the top, even for him. The original purposes of public education matter, a little, but I hope we can all agree that neither our modern government nor the majority of modern public school teachers (if any at all) educate for the reasons Gatto lists here. It's an awfully cynical view of a system that educates the vast majority of our citizens. I think the ps system needs a lot of work, I obviously do not believe it is right for my children, but it will continue to be the way that most people in this country are educated. I just don't think it's quite this villainous.

[Mergath]

That was... odd. :blink: Is Tim Burton co-producing?

[mommymilkies]

Also, I'm not pro or anti public school. I believe in school choice and in school reform.

 

I don't think, like some liberals, that my kid should be taking one for the team and staying in the system just to make it better. My children are not pawns and there are other ways to support education.

 

Ok..totally off topic, I know.

 

 

No reason to get political. I am liberal, and my liberal friends all homeschool or support homeschooling. I only know a few moderate democrats who believe in taking one for the team. But I know an equal or greater amount of Republicans who feel the same way. So lets not form a political divide on here.

[Maela]

I like a lot of what Gatto says in general, but I feel like this is a bit over the top, even for him. The original purposes of public education matter, a little, but I hope we can all agree that neither our modern government nor the majority of modern public school teachers (if any at all) educate for the reasons Gatto lists here. It's an awfully cynical view of a system that educates the vast majority of our citizens. I think the ps system needs a lot of work, I obviously do not believe it is right for my children, but it will continue to be the way that most people in this country are educated. I just don't think it's quite this villainous.

 

This.

[Alte Veste Academy]

That was... odd. :blink: Is Tim Burton co-producing?

 

You nailed my feelings exactly, and I am generally down with the major points of his argument. In fact, Gotto and Holt are major banner wavers for my biggest reasons to homeschool. Here though, he made himself seem like a doomsday wackadoo. No one but extremists will take him seriously if this is the kind of message he puts out.

[Maela]

 

 

You nailed my feelings exactly, and I am generally down with the major points of his argument. In fact, Gotto and Holt are major banner wavers for my biggest reasons to homeschool. Here though, he made himself seem like a doomsday wackadoo. No one but extremists will take him seriously if this is the kind of message he puts out.

And this!

[Alte Veste Academy]

No reason to get political. I am liberal, and my liberal friends all homeschool or support homeschooling. I only know a few moderate democrats who believe in taking one for the team. But I know an equal or greater amount of Republicans who feel the same way. So lets not form a political divide on here.

 

See now, I was reading it as that she is a liberal but disagrees with that argument often made by other liberals. It is an argument I have often heard from a couple of close liberal friends.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

That was... odd. :blink: Is Tim Burton co-producing?

 

 

Hee hee. Yeah, I'm thinking "oh, it's Coraline!"

 

My 6 yo came in while I was watching it. After a minute she said, "Well, that's disturbing." I don't think she meant the content!

[NotSoObvious]

 

 

No reason to get political. I am liberal, and my liberal friends all homeschool or support homeschooling. I only know a few moderate democrats who believe in taking one for the team. But I know an equal or greater amount of Republicans who feel the same way. So lets not form a political divide on here.

 

Oh! Yes, I'm sorry, I forget we don't all "know" each other, and totally didn't mean it that way!!!

I meant I am liberal and I have quite a few friends who have that attitude about homeschooling, so even though I feel like we have a responsibility to improve public education, that doesn't mean leaving my kids in the system.

Sorry to make it seem otherwise, just trying to clarify my viewpoint!

 

*I had no intention of making it political, I just wanted to clarify my feelings. So sorry if I offended anyone. I've actually been thinking about this video all day and had an interesting discussion about it tonight with another hsing mom.

[NotSoObvious]

 

 

See now, I was reading it as that she is a liberal but disagrees with that argument often made by other liberals. It is an argument I have often heard from a couple of close liberal friends.

 

Yes, this. It's actually a view I hear from quite a few at my church. I had this very argument with a lady from church the other day and it reminded me how divisive homeschooling is for some... Just because I homeschool doesn't mean I don't support schools.

[Anne in CA]

No reason to get political. I am liberal, and my liberal friends all homeschool or support homeschooling. I only know a few moderate democrats who believe in taking one for the team. But I know an equal or greater amount of Republicans who feel the same way. So lets not form a political divide on here.

 

 

I find this to be true also. An equal number of my liberal/ conservative friends believe I am wrong for home schooling my children because if they were in school I would be there helping improving school for everyone. This is really not a political stance, unfortunately.

[kristinannie]

First of all, I do think Gatto likes to shock people, but I also thinks he does this because people are so reluctant to question the system. Everyone complains about how kids are being dumbed down (and it is obvious), but they still mostly don't question the system. Gatto doesn't blame individuals, especially not teachers. Teachers are being limited more and more by the system. Many I know have become so frustrated that they have retired early or changed professions.

 

It seems to me that there are a few people making a lot of decisions. The quotes he uses here are from one of those people. This its not what Gatto himself came up with. I think we do need to take a hard look at this.

 

Honestly,a few years ago, I would have thought this was insane. However, my local school board put a lot of pressure on me to enroll my child in school. I gelt like I was in a bad dream. I kind of got to see what things are really like and it scared and disturbed me. I also work with kids at church and am appalled by the lack of critical thinking skills the gifted students show. I agree that he is over the top, but I wish we could start a real national dialogue about education and not just about testing and throwing money at the problem.

 

All of that said, the graphics were bizarre and detracted from making the message seem serious. I ask not sure what they were thinking there. I think out would be better if he just had someone speak the words with a black screen!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't disagree with the message, just the delivery.

 

Here's an example of killer delivery: http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DzDZFcDGpL4U

 

:D

[jeninok]

The link doesn't work for me!

[NASDAQ]

I think Gatto had some very interesting ideas but has beaten them more or less to death.

[shinyhappypeople]

I like a lot of what Gatto says in general, but I feel like this is a bit over the top, even for him. The original purposes of public education matter, a little, but I hope we can all agree that neither our modern government nor the majority of modern public school teachers (if any at all) educate for the reasons Gatto lists here. It's an awfully cynical view of a system that educates the vast majority of our citizens. I think the ps system needs a lot of work, I obviously do not believe it is right for my children, but it will continue to be the way that most people in this country are educated. I just don't think it's quite this villainous.

 

I don't think this is over the top. I agree that this doesn't describe what the vast majority of teachers in the system believe. However, it does force us to question how we as a society decided that our system of education should look like it does. (answer: we as a society didn't, at least not for the most part) Formal publicly funded education could take many different forms. Why has it taken the form that it has in OUR society? And is the system we have really best for our kids? Great food for thought. I wish more people would take it seriously.

[xixstar]

You nailed my feelings exactly, and I am generally down with the major points of his argument. In fact, Gotto and Holt are major banner wavers for my biggest reasons to homeschool. Here though, he made himself seem like a doomsday wackadoo. No one but extremists will take him seriously if this is the kind of message he puts out.

 

 

 

Yeah, that was strange and I was very distracted from the message by the imagery too. But even listening with eyes closed, I just didn't really get a well communicated message that I could agree with much of. I probably agree with much of his usual commentary but that delivery and format made it seem way crazy and I can't see myself reccomeding that to anyone either. And I like making people think or re-think some ideas they have but not like that.

[mommymilkies]

Oh! Yes, I'm sorry, I forget we don't all "know" each other, and totally didn't mean it that way!!!

I meant I am liberal and I have quite a few friends who have that attitude about homeschooling, so even though I feel like we have a responsibility to improve public education, that doesn't mean leaving my kids in the system.

Sorry to make it seem otherwise, just trying to clarify my viewpoint!

 

*I had no intention of making it political, I just wanted to clarify my feelings. So sorry if I offended anyone. I've actually been thinking about this video all day and had an interesting discussion about it tonight with another hsing mom.

 

 

It's totally fine! I know how hard it is to get exactly what you mean through on the internet. I wasn't offended, just worried this would turn into a political debate and have the thread shut down, kwim?

[Sameera]

I have every respect for John Taylor Gatto, an award winning teacher who gave up his career because he knew the school system was unjust. Many of the things he speaks about are absolutely true. This video reminds me of my schooling days which is exactly how I perceive forced schooling to be in modern times - draconian!

 

Read The Underground History of Schooling, it's is a real eye opener:

 

http://www.johntaylo...round/index.htm

 

I believe that as free human beings, deciding and becoming a parent is our right. Similarly, raising and educating children is a parent's right, duty and responsibility - this is enshrined in human rights laws.

 

Best Wishes

[persephone43]

I would have to agree with this assessment of public education and it's hidden intentions. Although I don't think teachers have any part in this or any say in any kind of reform for that matter. The education of children should be solely in the hands of parents and teachers, not some group of government officials and administrators.

 

Either way, my child is one of those who has fallen way behind because he wouldn't fit into that box nicely. He is smart and gifted but he feels differently about himself thanks to so many years in ps. Hope I have time to change that.

[persephone43]

.

[thewaka]

At the bottom of the page, it says Animation by David Scharf, www.huesforalice.com

 

I went there and the animation shown in the Gatto video is actually from Scharf's final thesis for university called "The Forest." It wasn't intended to illustrate Gatto's talk.

 

It was a poor choice. And I'd rather read than listen to Gatto.