UPDATE-Sort of Is there any good way to tell a teacher that she's handling your DC all wrong?

[Dmmetler]

I e-mailed the teacher, letting her know that DD was perceiving herself as being unable to do anything right in class and was extremely frustrated with the situation, to the point that it was affecting her outside of class, and to ask if there was anything specific we could do at home, as far as specific moves to practice or skills to work on to help her feel more confident.

 

And I've heard...nothing. I guess we'll see how it goes. DD doesn't want to go to church this morning, because she doesn't want to see some of the girls in her dance class. I think she's still embarrassed.

 

I did realize, after a complete meltdown by DD Thursday night, that part of the problem was that I haven't been feeling good lately and I've been sending her to do a lot of her schoolwork on the computer-and a lot of the programs she uses regularly provide immediate feedback on mistakes-and DD tends to see one mistake as a sign that she's totally messed up, not as "Look, I got all the rest of these correct!". When we do work on paper together, and I check it, I can handle mistakes by giving her something different to rework or by clarifying for her, not just a "you're wrong"-so I'm SURE that's contributing-she really WAS feeling like she was hearing all "You're wrong" with little support. And a big part of that is my fault.

 

She asked to go back to our regular school schedule on Friday, and she's been a much happier person Friday and yesterday-until this morning when I told her it was time to get ready for church and she stated, flat out, that she did NOT want to go to Sunday School-which usually she enjoys. I have a feeling I'll get similar push back for dance tomorrow night (she doesn't have the studio director tomorrow night, but the same girls who are in her Jazz class are in tomorrow's class-and if she's embarrassed to be around her two best dance friends at Sunday School, I imagine she's going to be even MORE embarrassed to be with the same group for Hip-Hop).

 

 

 

Sigh..

 

---

 

DD's danced in the same studio, with the same girls, for years, and loves the girls she's with. Unfortunately, this year, she had gotten to a level where she HAS to do Jazz and Tap with the studio director, and the studio director just plain doesn't mesh well with DD. She's one of those people who tends to focus on the negative and who, once you've finally fixed what she's worried about, moves onto your next weak point. DD is convinced that means that she's doing EVERYTHING wrong, that she can never please this woman, and she gets more and more nervous going into class, convinced that she is going to fail and that she can't possibly succeed. Today, she came out trying obviously to hold it together, went into her ballet class, her ballet teacher asked her what was wrong, and she burst into tears (which, I have to say, her ballet teacher handled well).

 

Her dance teacher tends to assume when DD starts to pull in and is getting upset at criticism that DD is mad at her-she doesn't see that DD is mad at HERSELF and is more critical of herself than the teacher ever could be. She doesn't see that this is a kid who is trying her hardest just to improve each week, and desperately needs to hear that, yes, her efforts are being noticed more than "Last week she complained about my turns, this week she didn't-she spent the entire class complaining about my jumps, so my turns must be getting better".

 

I'm so tempted to pull DD out as soon as the recital is over (actually, it's tempting to pull her NOW from that particular class, because she's hurting so much) but DD is terrified that she'll lose her dance friends, and given that she doesn't really have all that many friendships outside the dance studio, I don't want to force her to give it up-and rationally, I'm well aware that while we might have good intentions of seeing those girls, really, the only thing they have in common is dance.

 

Is there any way to tell the teacher that, look, this kid is trying, and trying hard-can you PLEASE at least notice that she took your corrections to heart and spent the last week working on them, before you tell her what she next needs to work on?

[TammyS]

Unless the studio director is being mean or abusive in some way, then I would suggest that what you want to work on is your daughter. Yes, it would be great if the studio director did a better job at positive reinforcement and all of that, but she isn't. And she isn't the last person of this type that your daughter is going to encounter in her life, either. Some people are just like that. They don't do it to be mean, they do it because they aren't emotional types themselves. She just thinks that she is giving your daughter the feedback that you are paying for.

 

So, maybe it's time to work on the skill of dealing with this personality type with your daughter. Tell her that the woman isn't doing it because she dislikes her, or thinks she's a bad dance student or untalented in some way - she's doing it because that is what you pay teachers to do, to give you corrections so that you can improve. She's doing it because she thinks your daughter is good enough to improve. When you have to worry is when she stops giving the corrections, because that is when she thinks she has reached her limit of potential.

 

I know it's not the warm, fuzzy thing we are accustomed to these days. I know it's hard to see a tender kid feel hurt. But it really is a life skill to be able to take correction and feedback and put it to use, instead of take it personally.

 

You can try approaching the teacher, but it's risky. She might take it well and change. But she might also decide that she's been teaching this way for a long time and that she doesn't need to change for one student, or she might decide that if your daughter can't take correction then she can't progress any further.

[TammyS]

I would agree with TammyS if the girl was at least 12. But I think she is only 8 (sorry I'm on my phone and can't see). That is still young enough, for me, to not to make everything a character issue. She'll get enough with persevering and practicing and sacrificing. Making her adjust to a nasty adult as well just doesn't seem right or seems like too much for an 8-yr old.

 

Well, as I said, IF the teacher was not being mean or abusive in some way.

 

Not giving positive reinforcement is not an inherently nasty or mean thing. Whether it's a good teaching strategy is a different issue, but it's not inherently mean or nasty.

[NotSoObvious]

I'm sorry, but unless your daughter wants to dance professionally, there is no reason for her to continue in a studio where she is reduced to tears and berated by a teacher. None at all. Find a different studio or a new hobby.

 

I had a ballet teacher (also the director) like this until I finally quit in 8th grade (to do high school dance team). I still have emotional scars because of some of the comments she made to me (including comments about my slowly developing body).

 

I do NOT agree with the "learn to deal with it" approach. This is a choice and a young child does not need to try to manage themselves just because an adult can't behave. I would never make my child continue with a teacher who reduced her to tears on a regular basis. I would, however, help her see it through until the performance. She can finish her commitment and makes choice not to participate next year.

 

Sometimes the studio directors are the worst with children. I don't think talking to her will make a difference.

[Neige]

I danced competitively and had teachers like this too. IME, it's pretty common for dance teachers to be harsh. I'm not sure why that is, really. I think I would focus mainly on talking with your daughter, letting her know that the criticism is meant to help her improve and nothing more. It's not a complete evaluation of her as a person, or even as a dancer. She may be a bit young for it, but I loved the movie Center Stage, which deals with some of these issues.

 

Sorry you're dealing with this - I remember how much it could hurt some days.

[DianeW88]

No, not really. Welcome to the world of arrogant, critical and harsh artistic directors. I can't tell you how many of those my dd has had to deal with. And guest choreographers.....they're the worst. Oy.

[Joanne]

I think your post was eloquent, kind, didn't label or name call the teacher. I think you should at least give the teacher the benefit of this information before you pull your dd.

 

If by "good way" you mean a way that is not awkward and uncomfortable - no. There isn't. This type of confrontation always comes with some level of discomfort, no matter how welll stated and presented.

 

But, truly, you did a GREAT job of laying out the truth without being drama centered, negative or making it worse. Give the professional the chance to improve. She may surprise you.

[catz]

My daughter is 8 and dances anywhere from 7 to 12 hours a week depending on what's coming up. I've noticed things have really stepped up a notch for this year in terms of expectations and intensity. She is young for her group of dancers right now and there are actually dancers up to 11 and 12 in her group (the oldest ones are being prepped for pointe). I kind of have mixed feelings about it. I do know some parents that deliberately are holding back their 8 and 9 year olds a level for a year or 2.

 

It is a good life skill to be able to work with "crabby" people and not take things personally. I do think there are plenty of them in the dance world, and really almost any activity a kid might move up through levels in. But only you know if your child is really ready to work on that seriously. I wouldn't go in and try to ask the teacher to change her tone if that's just who she is. I'd just pull her out if it's not going to work for now and scale it back. If she is reduced to tears on a regular basis and isn't feeling good about herself, that's really sad for an 8 year old. :(

 

My 8 year right now in just the past few months complains about coaching that is too lax and wants critical feedback. Which is a HUGE change for her actually. Her ballet teacher she spends 3 hours a week with has a wonderful personality despite having very high expectations. Which is been very, very lucky! Her other teachers are mixed.

 

Do you have the option of looking at other studios? If this is the director at this one, she's not likely to go anywhere fast or shift responsibilities easily. Sorry your 8 year old is having a hard time!

[Lawana]

You know your dd best, and will have to weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. I waited at least a year too long to change piano teachers when dd was not getting the kind of feedback she needed. It turned out okay in the end, but dd was very close to losing her love of playing before we made the switch. Ironically, dd became the student of the teacher who taught her first teacher for more than 16 years (preschool through college).

 

If you have the option, consider changing studios. There will always be a whole new set of fellow students with whom to establish friendships.

 

I have two very different children. One needs to be told that he is not a special snowflake, and to deal with what is passed out. The other would just shut down and give up if subjected to undo criticism. She will, of course, have to deal with it eventually, but my goal is to strengthen her first in order to be able to gain a perspective on this.

[Donna]

Is it possible to have a conversation with the teacher or send her an email or letter? When dd started with her fiddle teacher years ago, he was not used to dealing with very young kids and his way of teaching was to point out incorrect things all the time. Dd was used to teachers who phrased correction in a way that pointed out what she was doing correctly then asking her to try to do the incorrect thing another way. ("That was good but could you try it like this?") She really did not like the first two lessons she had with him but rather than quit, I sent him an email asking him if he could please try to point out a few good things in a lesson and phrase corrections by asking her to try it his way rather than just saying, "No, do it again."

 

I held a lot of sway with him because he had asked to teach dd and didn't want to lose her as a student. I also phrased it in a way that didn't criticize him but explained dd and what she needed to be happier in her lessons. If we had sought him as a teacher or he was set in his ways, he might have just told us to get used to it or leave. He did change and, though she now loves him and understands his ways, I still see him catching himself to rephrase corrections now and then.

 

I also talked to dd about how different people teach in different ways. (If she had been older at the time, I might not have stepped in with the teacher and just handled it that way but she had just turned 7 and I felt like she needed me to intervene in this instance.) She needed to learn that if a teacher doesn't mention it, it doesn't need correction. Now her classical teacher is the one who tends to correct more than praise so this has been a helpful lesson to learn.

[Dmmetler]

I'm still torn. I suspect that it comes down to DD not feeling like she's doing it "right" if she's not told that it's better before the next correction comes-so eventually she gets to the point that she's trying to correct about 10 things at once, and is making more mistakes because she's trying too hard to correct. This is a kid who has commented that she doesn't know why everyone thinks math is hard-math is easy, because if you get a wrong answer, at least you know there's a right one, and once you find it, you'll never lose it again.

 

 

As a musician, I understand the teacher's point of view-I do it myself. A college boyfriend once commented that orchestra parties were more like funerals-everyone was dressed in black and talked constantly of all the mistakes they'd made and how awful they were, and that he wished, just once, someone would come in happy and cheering that "We rocked the Mozart!!!" instead of being concerned about one note being slightly too long in a single passage surrounded by dozens of others and convinced that it spoiled the whole piece.

 

She struggles so much with making friends, especially with kids her age. Most of her "Friends" are much older and are based on sharing an interest with-and while they might be great to talk to at herpetological society meetings, they're not someone who wants to go to the mall and go shopping, or dress up stuffed animals with. Her dance friends have provided that same age peer group-the kids with which she can dress up in silly costumes and choreograph videos on the back porch. And I do suspect that she'd lose that peer group if she quits this studio, and would have a really, really hard time establishing herself in a new one.

 

I feel like I need to approach the teacher-but honestly, I don't think the teacher is doing anything wrong-it's simply that DD isn't quite emotionally ready for her teaching style yet.

[Dmmetler]

I wonder if it would be received OK if I asked if there was anyone (maybe one of the older girls in the studio) who could work with DD on a few of the rough spots outside of class (and someone who might possibly be a little more encouraging) to help DD get some confidence back? I feel like if she could get a cheerleader to kind of help her synthesize everything, she'd be able to get off the self-defeating train and move forward, and maybe if she stopped replaying every past correction in her head at once because she's confident that she has those steps down she'd be able to better handle the next corrections.

[The Governess]

I would let the teacher know that your dd is struggling to accept her corrections in a positive manner. Don't frame it in a way that makes it sound like you think the teacher is being overly critical, but bring to light the frustrations your dd is experiencing in class and ask the teacher if she has any advice for her. Many times when a teacher gives a student a lot of corrections it's because she sees some potential in the student and is excited to push ahead. She may not be aware that your dd is taking it so negatively - in fact, she might be looking at the attention she is giving your dd - even negative attention - as a display of her interest in her.

 

My dd8 dances and each of her teachers has their own teaching style. I will say that she has learned the most from the teacher that is the most critical. I am able to sit in on that class, and if I think dd has done well on something and the teacher has moved on to criticizing something else instead of praising her progress (which is the norm), I will be sure to recognize it and reward her hard work myself. I also talk to dd after each class and go over her corrections with her, treating them as exciting tips that she was very blessed to have received. She has just started keeping a corrections journal and I'm hoping that over the years what she writes in it will be a good record of her progress that she can look through when she is feeling discouraged.

[Chelli]

I wonder if it would be received OK if I asked if there was anyone (maybe one of the older girls in the studio) who could work with DD on a few of the rough spots outside of class (and someone who might possibly be a little more encouraging) to help DD get some confidence back? I feel like if she could get a cheerleader to kind of help her synthesize everything, she'd be able to get off the self-defeating train and move forward, and maybe if she stopped replaying every past correction in her head at once because she's confident that she has those steps down she'd be able to better handle the next corrections.

 

 

Are you allowed to watch her class? While my dd's ballet teacher does a good job of encouraging and correcting, if I feel that dd had a particularly rough class, I'll comment about how beautiful her legs looked doing her arabesque or how her arms are looking more elegant doing her turns. I'm only able to do this because our ballet teacher allows parents to sit in on the classes so I can learn and watch right along with dd so I can really see her improvement. I guess what I'm saying is you could be her cheerleader.

[Dmmetler]

I think my trying to praise her would backfire-she tends to place extra magnitude on what others say, while assuming that "You have to say that, you're my mom!". That's why I'm thinking an encouraging older girl might be good-someone who could watch DD through the dance, give some positive feedback, and maybe help her through a couple of rough spots, but mostly just tell her that, yes, she IS doing a good job, and here's how to make it better, so that she could go into class with a little more confidence.

 

I really suspect the teacher is putting on the pressure because this is essentially the "pre-team"-this isn't a competition heavy studio (the older girls usually do one competition/workshop/clinic type weekend a year, maybe two at most) but it's one that regularly sends kids to do community theater and the like, and these are the girls who are getting to the age where there are multiple groups in the area that audition kids for theater roles. And DD's other strengths (basically, the kid has a great memory-she learns choreography quickly, learns lines or songs after hearing them a couple of times, reads well and with expression beyond that expected of her age, etc-all the cognitive stuff) would work well for that sort of thing. It's simply that DD isn't terribly talented physically, and, of course, that she needs to be able to take and apply corrections and move on.

[TammyS]

I don't think the teacher is doing anything wrong-it's simply that DD isn't quite emotionally ready for her teaching style yet.

 

Could you talk to dd and explain the teaching style? Would she be able to understand that the corrections are finite and not global?

 

Would putting her in a lower class with a different teacher at the same studio be an option?

[readwithem]

They don't do it to be mean, they do it because they aren't emotional types themselves. She just thinks that she is giving your daughter the feedback that you are paying for.

My dd had a dance teacher like this - she specifically told my dd that she didn't spend time on what she was doing right - they only had an hour together, and they needed to spend that time on what needed to be corrected.

[TammyS]

 

Another thought I had was I wonder if you could ask the instructor what are some specific skills your daughter could focus on at home (and take a few notes for her). That way maybe she would feel like she could be proactive. If she feels like there are 100,000 different things to think about it's hard to know where to start with that.

 

 

I think this is a great idea. It would help your dd to make the corrections more concretely finite. You could also talk about what ISN'T on the list. "See, she just wants you to work on these 3 things. Not these other 50 things."

[Dmmetler]

She's 8, and a fairly young 8 at that-she only turned 8 at the end of November.

 

She's definitely a recreational dancer. She enjoys it because it's something that she does with her friends, and she seems to need a lot of physical activity to keep herself focused and together, but her life goals involve being a herpetologist or being a programmer/artist for the Neopets website. Her dreams for dance go as far as eventually wanting to be on one of the college dance or cheer teams she sees on ESPN-U.

 

She does really like ballet, and her instructor actually suggested that we might want to eventually move her over to a more ballet-focused program because she does have potential in that area-but when I suggested it last summer when he first made the recommendation, she didn't want to consider it because of her friends.

 

Putting her in a class with a different teacher isn't really an option-she's beyond what the lower level teacher teaches, and since her primary reason for sticking with dance is social, that wouldn't help. I am wondering about possibly dropping Jazz/Tap in favor of an extra ballet class, and possibly trying to leave her in ballet with her friends,but if she wants to focus on ballet at all, this really isn't the studio, since it's a music theater focused program where ballet is taught for technique, not for performance beyond a routine or two at recital.

[KungFuPanda]

As an adult, I prefer this type of dance teacher because it's an efficient style and I don't need to buy compliments with my dance dollars. When my daughter was about 8, however, it took one gymnastics coach like this to send her running from the sport. She actually got yelled at. She never went back and we supported her.

 

In my daughter's case, she just devoted more time to dance where the teachers were all kind. She never missed gymnastics. Can you drop that one class? Or try another studio?

[SKL]

Could the problem be that your dd is not used to the idea that we all have areas that need constant work to stay on par?

 

I think this is pretty common with kids for whom most things come easily.

 

Assuming the teacher is not being cruel, I'd try helping dd to see things from the teacher's perspective. The fact that the teacher is putting so much effort into correcting her shows that the teacher sees her as worth her time and effort. She sees the potential. She knows the type and amount of work that will produce good results, and views your dd as capable of that work. That's a real compliment!

 

Rather than mom talking to the teacher, if dd was really finding it too hard to keep up with the teacher's recommendations, then I'd suggest dd ask the teacher for a little more time to work on abc. Or to ask for feedback on the skill she worked so hard on last week and isn't hearing criticized this week. I'd think the teacher would appreciate it and it would help teacher to understand where dd is emotionally.

[Tammyla]

The only good way is the one that brings a measure of peace to your dd. The discussion will as others mentioned be uncomfortable. Your post sounds very reasonable to me.

[TammyS]

, this really isn't the studio, since it's a music theater focused program where ballet is taught for technique, not for performance beyond a routine or two at recital.

 

But if your daughter is, as you say, a "recreational" dancer, maybe she won't care? If what she likes is ballet and her friends, maybe that is enough?

[catz]

Could the problem be that your dd is not used to the idea that we all have areas that need constant work to stay on par?

 

I think this is pretty common with kids for whom most things come easily.

 

Assuming the teacher is not being cruel, I'd try helping dd to see things from the teacher's perspective. The fact that the teacher is putting so much effort into correcting her shows that the teacher sees her as worth her time and effort. She sees the potential. She knows the type and amount of work that will produce good results, and views your dd as capable of that work. That's a real compliment!

 

Rather than mom talking to the teacher, if dd was really finding it too hard to keep up with the teacher's recommendations, then I'd suggest dd ask the teacher for a little more time to work on abc. Or to ask for feedback on the skill she worked so hard on last week and isn't hearing criticized this week. I'd think the teacher would appreciate it and it would help teacher to understand where dd is emotionally.

 

 

Some good ideas here. I think if I were going to approach the teacher, I wouldn't necessarily be critical of her but just emphasize how sensitive your child is and how you can work with her to make dance last stressful?

 

This has been a really good thread for me too. My DS has been wanting to level in some acrobatics classes he's taking. He's 12, so he actually has become reasonably good at asking questions and advocating for himself. I have been pretty unhappy with the coaching in general and inconsistencies I've seen with other kids moving up, etc. I'm not sure how to handle it, and there have been some really good ideas here. He would REALLY love to move up, but I feel this school does not care about kids as individuals. Meh - parenting stinks sometimes. First world problems for sure, but still.

[elfgivas]

random thoughts:

 

if i were the teacher, i would want a parent to speak with me one on one, with the focus being on how to help dd become a happier dancer. i would prefer this over the parent just switching the child. sometimes it takes more than once. dd #3 responds well to correction. if it becomes too negative, i watch her set her chin in what i call the "well, watch this" attitude. enter dd #4, who responds to correction by thinking "she's right; i'm dreadful" and becomes worse and worse. if the same correction is given as "i can see you've been working hard on pointing your foot", she will suddenly begin to point her foot beautifully. we work with her on this, but i end up speaking with each teacher multiple times, and ask them to give it a try, to deliberately put something down, and then to deliberately compliment something. they are blown away by the results. so for us, its a two-pronged thing, working with the child and with the adult.

 

flip side: i tried this with their violin teacher for years, and finally we switched teachers. its night and day. i wish we'd switched way earlier. we stayed because we liked the teacher as a person, and she was a fabulous teacher for dd#3. we liked the other students, and the parents, etc, etc.

 

right now, we're working with dd on "rephrasing" what a teacher says..... eg. if a teacher says "you're not pointing your foot", hear "you are good enough that it is worth my while to correct you. if you just get that foot pointed, the move will be wonderful". rinse. repeat. then there is the skill of recognising that you are getting the same correction again and again, at which point its worth learning how to approach an instructor after class, and saying something like, "i have noticed that you ask me to point my foot every time we do "x", and i think i am, but i try harder, and it is still the same. could you watch me and move my foot to the position i should be trying for?"

 

another thing dd #4 has discovered is that when she is uncomfortable with something someone has said, she often speaks to a friend in a cheerful, joking manner to make herself feel better. this works well for her, but gives the impression that she doesn't care about getting better. once we worked on that, she has realised that that was a piece of the problem that she could fix.

 

hth,

ann

 

ps. i work with my kids on interpersonal skills at every age, just differently, so i would approach this from that perspective. there is a problem. what are possible solutions? let's try one and see. oops. let's try another one. i'd rather them learn that than "its not working. i'll leave."