Can you "Coop" with a Non-Schooler?

[Shelly in VA]

I have a situation that I don't know how to handle. I have a friend who claims to unschool her kids, but in reality doesn't school them at all. (Fwiw, I have other friends who do unschool, so I do recognize that as a viable option for some people, although it is not what I do.) My friend has actually admitted to me, for instance, that she has not done anything academic with her kids since mid-October, and she has a string of excuses as to why, but the bottom line is that her kids (aged 14, 12 and 6) are not schooling at all.

 

So, here's the situation. Knowing that this was going on, I had suggested over the summer that we get our kids together for a weekly project, either history or science related, thinking that perhaps that would be fun for the kids, get a little interest generated for her kids, and provide some sort of structure. I have done this sort of informal coop with other families in those areas for a few years, and it works out well for us. Initially, she was open to the idea, but, again, there were lots of excuses and delays when it came to actually getting started. As recently as last week, when I mentioned it again, she said that doing something formal might be overwhelming to her kids, but that maybe if I was willing to come up with a list of projects, it could work.

 

Now I don't know what to do! Do I set up simple projects, so that the kids have something to work on jointly for a few weeks? I don't mind doing the work, but I am afraid that she will continue to do no schooling, and then point to the projects when asked by friends/family as evidence that they are working (and thereby imply that they are doing more than they are). Then I'll feel like I'm aiding and abetting a bad situation. :crying: Do I tell her I can't consider this at this time, knowing that she won't pull her weight and that her kids won't be prepared? Or do I continue to get frustrated with the avoidance on her part, possibly damaging the friendship in the long run?

 

I guess, really, from the hive perspective, what I'm asking is if anyone has ever encountered this sort of situation. Where do you draw the line between getting involved, and leaving other people to their own devices? :confused1:

 

Thanks for listening.

[Harriet Vane]

No. Run far, far away. The key words in your post are: "string of excuses," and "lots of excuses and delays." Trying to organize projects with this woman--even if you do all the work--will be a nightmare.

[dbmamaz]

i've known some radical unschoolers. we only hang out socially. but i also dont like project learning, so that wasnt an issue.

[Farrar]

I wouldn't do it. The red flag to me is her wanting you to make a proposal and her fear that a project might be "too formal." If it were me and this were a friend and I wanted to do it, then I would also want there to be some sense that it was a joint thing we were doing for the kids - even if I was running it and doing most of the planning. But this is just you offering a class to her kids... and she's not even going to let you do a serious class. I agree with others that you shouldn't.

[LucyStoner]

I would avoid making her educational neglect your problem. She's a flake and your efforts will be unappreciated. Frankly she sounds like she is calling her laziness unschooling. I have unschooling friends. They are doing tons of educational stuff each week because their lives are geared towards following the kid's interest. It's not for us but when done well, it works. Her 2 older kids are getting too old to make excuses for 4 month long breaks.

[Shelly in VA]

Thanks for the input; you all are right. I think part of what I am struggling with is the fact that we lost our history co-op of 3 years when the other family moved away, and that was a great experience for all of us. But I need to accept the fact that I can't recreate that in this situation! You all are right, and intuitively I already know that this just will not work. Thanks for being the voice of reason for me!

[Shelly in VA]

I would avoid making her educational neglect your problem. . . . Frankly she sounds like she is calling her laziness unschooling.

 

 

I agree. Which is why I mentioned that I know true unschoolers, and this is a whole different beast! I don't need anyone else's problems on my plate; I create plenty of my own!! :mellow:

[Dmmetler]

We have some questionable unschooling in our HS group (and some quite successful unschooled who frankly, exhaust me because they're dong such a good, involved job of strewing and leading from behind and discovery-it make s me want to be a kid in their house) and what I've noticed is that the questionable schooling folks sign up for things like co-ops and back out as soon as they find that they're expected to contribute in any way, while the unschooling/interest led folks often are the ones who come up with some really nice projects based around whatever their DC are interested in that often beat out the academic folks in complexity. So my experience is that if they're truly non-schoolers, it won't go past the first session or two, if that. As soon as it's her turn to do something the excuses will start-usually, IME, that the group is too structured and is stifling the DC's creativity.

[Shelly in VA]

I mean there are two different issues. She may be a lousy homeschooler. And the other issue is she just might not like co-op type stuff or her kids don't. I don't see the big deal with the latter. The first thing I would not want to be involved with. But I'm just focusing on the part about her not biting on the co-op idea.

 

Hopefully I'm making sense.

 

Makes sense to me! I think it's the former. And I should try to avoid any involvement in the situation because of that. But, because there is a relationship between some of her kids and some of mine, I wish the problem was that a co-op is just not her thing, kwim? But, in reality, I know from conversations with both her and her kids that they haven't done any sort of schooling for several months at least, they aren't encouraged to read or pursue activities, and they have no outside involvement in any groups/hobbies/activities, They spent 4 years trying to get through SOTW 1 (book only, no activity guide), before dropping it out of boredom, but only got through 6 chapters of SOTW 2 this fall before dropping that. They haven't done any science for several years, b/c they tried a botany book a few years ago and it was too tedious. They dropped out of a formal co-op in the area b/c of the time commitment required of a parent. They don't read, b/c the middle child is dyslexic and they don't want to make her feel uncomfortable about that.

 

Now I'm just venting. I want a better situation for them, and I want the friendships among us to continue, but I think I have to just put my blinders on and have fun at park dates and the pool in the summertime.

 

Maybe I should just find some wine and dark chocolate for the afternoon, and it will all look better Monday morning. Haha!

[journey00]

You have very good intentions, God bless you for that. But, she may not want to participate and is having a hard time saying no to you and thinks she may hurt your feelings. Maybe she already knows that the teaching styles won't mesh & doesn't want to strain the relationship.

 

Another thought...because she knows the teaching styles are different and there's so many different ways of learning, she may not share with you how much her kids are actually learning & is purposely being vague & cryptic....maybe she's afraid of being judged. I'm a little bit that way, when I'm asked about my homeschooling methods & curriculum by other Moms in the local homeschool group, I don't really want to share with "certain" individuals because they just want to compare their family to mine so I'm very vague and say that we use a mixture of different things then change the topic. I usually see them during our basketball games, so it is very easy to divert the attention back to the game.

 

I have read my share of unschooling books and have known an unschooling family which have done great. Maybe, just maybe, her kids will still excel in spite of. They may still be better off at home "unschooling" than at the local ps. :o

 

Maybe you can just let her know that you are there to help if she ever wants it. Then go & have some fun time at the park with her and the kids.

 

Just my 2 cents ;) Best wishes to you.

[woolybear]

I think maybe you're trying to help with a situation that she doesn't want to change. And quite frankly, I'm not sure you are in a position to judge. There are those who do no schooling (not just unschooling) and do that well. I guess I have an issue when homeschoolers start judging how other homeschoolers do things. I think we get enough of that from the rest of the world. We need to support each other. I know that is what you are trying to do here, but it sounds like it may not be what she wants.

 

It really depends on the why you are doing this and is this really the family you want to do it with? If you are prepared to bear the brunt of the work to do this with them, then I would say a hesitant maybe. It sounds more like you want to help them and maybe you can, maybe just not like this.

 

I think if you really like her/their company, keeping it more social for now sounds best.

 

Hope I'm not sounding harsh. I'm trying to figure out if I should reword this or delete something. I just mean that if the kids are okay (physically, emotionally, mentally) then don't worry about how they are academically.

 

One other thought, you could ask if maybe just the older kid wanted to participate on his or her own?

 

If you have this many reservations about it, it sounds like it's the wrong path.

[Matryoshka]

I would say no, it's not possible.

 

I have done group things where I've done 100% of the planning and prep, because it's something I want for my kids anyway, and it's usually something that's more effective in a group (foreign language, book discussion), it's no more work to plan for a few extra kids than for my own. and also I'm a bit ADD and the deadline of other people coming helps me get it done consistently.

 

However, the other families in those groups have not been unschoolers. I still need to have the books read or the homework done by the next class, even if the other mom doesn't have to do any teaching or planning. If the kids are not prepared, then my kids wonder why they should have to be, and also we can't really have a discussion with kids who haven't read the material, or move forward as a group. If I do group things with unschooler friends, it has to be something completely non-academic.

[Χά�ων]

They spent 4 years trying to get through SOTW 1 (book only, no activity guide), before dropping it out of boredom, but only got through 6 chapters of SOTW 2 this fall before dropping that.

 

That is pretty much what I have done with SOTW. I know people love it but I could not stand it. I finally gave up and went back to historical fiction with great success.

 

As for the family if the children are fed and well cared for and mom is not drunk by noon, I'd let it go.

We are/were radicle unschoolers until DS said he wanted something formal (workbooks).

[QuirkyKapers]

No. Run far, far away. The key words in your post are: "string of excuses," and "lots of excuses and delays." Trying to organize projects with this woman--even if you do all the work--will be a nightmare.

 

It sounds like she really isn't interested in doing this. I wouldn't put the effort in to do this with this family since it sounds like what she is looking to do and you are looking to do are teo different things. If you want the kids to intereact and you like the mom, find something else that everyone is interested in. I would ask her what she would like to see happen if you want to pursue interaction. I would try and find another family that would be interested.

 

The other option would be to let the kids figure out what they would be interested in doing together. Have them brainstorm a list and then you could get supplies. This way you aren't doing everything. This also fits more with unschooling since it would be more child led/child interest based. For example, if the interest is getting together to play Minecraft than see if they can come up with how Math is involved with that (are there statistics for how many people played when the game first came out and how has that number changed over the years and have them graph the changes), what is the history of how it was started, try and find the science involved etc) You could also have them record what their score is everytime they get together and play and graph it over a two month period. They could than compare their graphs and figure out who has improved the most. (I don't know if Minecraft has scores. Just throwing out an example)

[Lecka]

I think it is possible the mom is not very capable of teaching them in some academic ways. Maybe she had a bad time in school and that is why her kids don't go. Maybe the middle child's learning issues are inherited from her.

 

One of my kids has learning issues inherited from my husband's side and that is how they act. They are deep in denial and also not able to dig in.

 

My FIL was treated horribly in school also.

 

They actually sent my husband to religious school, and he got by, but his parents looked the other way from his problems, bc some deep shame. It is too bad. But then my little BIL they "homeschooled" also and he just played video games. He was behind so of course he fought them on their boxed curriculums, he couldn't do them. But they never actually addressed it, they let it go. Eventually he graduated from a non-accredited Christian school and now he can't pass community college classes bc his reading level.

 

My husband is not a very good reader, and he hid it from me for a very long time. He can read in his interest areas bc he has learned the words. But I just say that to say, my husband is smart and very knowledgable about many things, and I am married to him, and if I could not know, then this woman could be the same way.

 

Just a possible scenario.

[NotSoObvious]

No because she sounds like a flake. That would be enough for me.

[albeto]

I have a situation that I don't know how to handle. I have a friend who claims to unschool her kids, but in reality doesn't school them at all.

 

What does this mean? How does one "unschool" while "schooling" children?

 

(Fwiw, I have other friends who do unschool, so I do recognize that as a viable option for some people, although it is not what I do.) My friend has actually admitted to me, for instance, that she has not done anything academic with her kids since mid-October, and she has a string of excuses as to why, but the bottom line is that her kids (aged 14, 12 and 6) are not schooling at all.

 

They are still learning. It's hard for a human to not learn from his or her environment. Perhaps what you mean is that you don't see your friend offering the kind of environment you consider "rich" for learning?

 

So, here's the situation. Knowing that this was going on, I had suggested over the summer that we get our kids together for a weekly project, either history or science related, thinking that perhaps that would be fun for the kids, get a little interest generated for her kids, and provide some sort of structure. I have done this sort of informal coop with other families in those areas for a few years, and it works out well for us. Initially, she was open to the idea, but, again, there were lots of excuses and delays when it came to actually getting started. As recently as last week, when I mentioned it again, she said that doing something formal might be overwhelming to her kids, but that maybe if I was willing to come up with a list of projects, it could work.

 

Now I don't know what to do! Do I set up simple projects, so that the kids have something to work on jointly for a few weeks? I don't mind doing the work, but I am afraid that she will continue to do no schooling, and then point to the projects when asked by friends/family as evidence that they are working (and thereby imply that they are doing more than they are). Then I'll feel like I'm aiding and abetting a bad situation. :crying: Do I tell her I can't consider this at this time, knowing that she won't pull her weight and that her kids won't be prepared? Or do I continue to get frustrated with the avoidance on her part, possibly damaging the friendship in the long run?

 

I guess, really, from the hive perspective, what I'm asking is if anyone has ever encountered this sort of situation. Where do you draw the line between getting involved, and leaving other people to their own devices? :confused1:

 

Thanks for listening.

 

If you enjoy the company of your friend, and your kids get along with hers, invite them to hang out together. My kids wouldn't do projects with other kids just because. It would have to be something they are interested in, otherwise it's a long time of tolerating a contrived "fun event." Blech. Who likes that? Not I. Not my kids. It sounds like your friend is trying to politely find a way to avoid doing what can only be expected to be unpleasant. I hope you don't mind me being blunt, but perhaps she sees this as manipulative and condescending, like you're trying to "save" her kids from her. At least, that's how I would read it if someone pushed this idea on me and my kids.

[Tullia]

Sounds like a difficult situation for both of you. Based on what you describe, I don't see how an academics based, structured co-op would be successful. If you enjoy their company would they join you for a series of informal nature hikes? An invitation for a half day of lunch, games, and a hike with pauses to pull out sketchbooks and/or cameras might be less intimidating. I'm a firm believer that keeping a nature journal is appealing and useful for sparking an interest in self education.