Does anyone else struggle with the realization that your dc work better

[mama2cntrykids]

for an outside teacher than they do/would for yourself?

 

This is where I am at right now. It seems that all of my dc would work harder/better with an outside teacher (ps) than they do for me. I feel like all they do with me is argue, dwaddle, mess around with each-other, try to cop-out of the work, on and on.

 

I am very sad. I would hate to put them into PS next year, but sometimes I wonder if I'm being selfish by keeping them home. I would miss them so much. Sometimes I feel like I could be a better mom to them if we were not together 24/7. Then, sometimes I think not. Sigh...is anyone with me?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

(looks at calendar) It's February. If you didn't feel like this right now you wouldn't be a legitimate homeschooler.

 

Unless these particular children have already proven to you that they will be angelically industrious for somebody else, you're just guessing.

 

If you really think one woman in a classroom full of 25 kids that are not hers will really be able to keep 100% of them from fighting, being lazy, talking back to her, or making excuses, for the entire school day and every day, you haven't been to school yourself in a really long time. :D

 

Either way, don't ever decide to quit homeschooling in February. Decide on vacation in Tahiti where you can be more objective about whether you'd really and truly come back to regular life, if this is your regular life, or whether something major has to change before you'll consider coming back at all.

 

On our worst days I mutter to myself that I'm glad they're not in school because I would be so embarrassed if they acted that way in front of a teacher! I want the bad behavior here where I can instantly address it (and where nobody else knows about it). I don't enjoy dealing with my kids' worst manifestations of their inner monsters, but I know their good behavior away from home comes from the way I teach them to behave at home.

 

Hang in there! Spring is just around the corner.

[Farrar]

There's a reason for this. It's because they know you love them unconditionally. Children can be their worst selves for us because they feel so safe.

 

February doesn't help either, of course. ;)

 

I think the trick is to help them feel that love but also have strategies for stopping the behaviors that are disrespectful, whiny, lazy, angry, or whatever. We get there sometimes and other times less so. I just know that there's a whole other set of issues when a child is in school - no matter how good the kids are - and that makes homeschooling worth it for most families.

[Gentlemommy]

Yes. It's what sparked my initial interest in a more structured coop, like CC. Lo and behold, we went today for the observation day, and dd7 did marvelously. Wonder of wonders, she was able to sit and pay attention, write without falling over dead, and put 100% effort in at all times. She absolutely loved it, despite me thinking it would be too 'schooly' for her. Her teacher is smitten with her, of course. Lol. She is quite the charmer. ;-) Her only upset was when I told her that the session doesn't start for another six months. She somehow conned me into taking her to ALl the observation days during this month lol.

[hsbeth]

Yes, I am so there with one of my children who is in 5th grade. She is the strongest willed of my four children and this year we constantly butt heads. I don't feel this has anything to do with our routine or my ability to homeschool in general. My other kids are quite successful and happy. Like you, I have come to have some concerns about whether this scenario continues to be best for "her". Honestly, it's not about my experience, I can tough it out.

 

What worries me is that in other areas such as our co-ops, church activities, organized sports she really does thrive. She actually got an award from her swim coaches a year ago as "the most coachable". She's struggled with writing at home (has a bit of dysgraphia) but this year, her first in an outside class, she is making real progress.

 

I do agree with another poster's idea that it is because of their safety with us that they can push the envelope, but I'm no longer convinced it's in her academic best interest anymore.

 

We're praying HARD about what to do with her for next year.

[K&Rs Mom]

My 10yo is like this - acts better for anyone she only has to see once a week, but I suspect that if it was every day that would change. Plus if I put her in ps, I'd still have the same fights with her over homework, it would just be later in the day. ;) And most of her outside activities were her own choice, so of course she's working harder at something she already, intrinsically wants to improve, and fighting me on the things she doesn't really want to do.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I've had the same thoughts a few times. Then I realize that (for me, anyway) the truth is that it is a parenting problem, not a homeschooling problem. Respect is respect. If I'm not getting it, whether in school or out of school, it's a symptom of an overarching problem. Sometimes you have to be mom/teacher/principal all in one. :lol:

 

I will also say that I am greatly at fault many times. When I am a grump and stressed out, for example, of course the children aren't going to work well for me. Teachers generally drop their personal lives and at the schoolroom door, but here we are family and we don't put away emotions. Sometimes it would serve my kids better if I did, something that is usually pointed out to me by their behavior. :tongue_smilie: If I bring my best self to teaching them every day, they bring their best selves to learning, generally speaking.

[Guest]

I think the trick is to help them feel that love but also have strategies for stopping the behaviors that are disrespectful, whiny, lazy, angry, or whatever.

 

I've had the same thoughts a few times. Then I realize that (for me, anyway) the truth is that it is a parenting problem, not a homeschooling problem. Respect is respect. If I'm not getting it, whether in school or out of school, it's a symptom of an overarching problem. Sometimes you have to be mom/teacher/principal all in one. :lol:

 

Ideas? We are going through this with ds right now. I know it's a parenting issue, but I don't really know what to do. The dawdling is driving me insane.

 

ETA: this is my extremely strong willed, stubborn child. This is also one of the reasons that I am so strong considering Classical Conversations next year, too. I'm thinking a day with another teacher might be good for both of us?

[Farrar]

Ideas? We are going through this with ds right now. I know it's a parenting issue, but I don't really know what to do. The dawdling is driving me insane.

 

ETA: this is my extremely strong willed, stubborn child. This is also one of the reasons that I am so strong considering Classical Conversations next year, too. I'm thinking a day with another teacher might be good for both of us?

 

 

I definitely don't feel like I have the answers. To some extent, I think children will always let out their worst for their parents. Kids are never going to be as on their toes the way they are in an outside class. And we can't expect them to be "good" all the time - I think kids in school hold it in, for example, and then have to let it out. I think what we get is often a more low-level but constant stream of the negative behaviors. On the other hand, we have to draw lines for them of what's okay and what isn't. Here, we have stretches where I feel like we've mostly got it down. And then there are stretches where I'm tearing my hair out. Guess which one we're in now? Started a couple of weeks back and I'm already wondering when it will end. :glare:

 

The flip side is that I think kids also let out their best for us - their most creative selves, their sweetest selves, their most giving selves, their smartest selves and their best questions. Outsiders don't get that.

[PachiSusan]

 

The flip side is that I think kids also let out their best for us - their most creative selves, their sweetest selves, their most giving selves, their smartest selves and their best questions. Outsiders don't get that.

 

 

Thank you for saying that!!!! It is SO true as well. This will help me get through the bad days!

[Trilliums]

I don't think this is actually so much a parenting issue. A lot of it, I think is a kid personality issue. Many families have a mix of kids who are harder/easier to homeschool.

 

They school room setting works for some kids due to the carrot on a stick mentality. SO, at home, either offer the right carrot (can be harder without the prevalent peer pressure and class reward system in the school setting) or educate them a different way. Their learning can look very different from school. Some kids take to a replication of school at home, but some don't. That plunge can definitely be scary.

[klhoward42]

I am half way through my first year of kindergarten......... Wow am I worn out.( I have an 11 month old as well) I constantly think this same, thought, I am doing her a disservice by making her stay at home and listen to me :) but really I am not. Sometimes she might not like a specific thing, or time of the day but she loves school and she loves to be with me.

 

One thing I started doing was I made a list during the day, of times she obeyed and times she didn't and was defiant. What I saw after "observing" for a while was that she actually does better than I give her credit for. 6 out of 8 times she obeyed immediately, with no complaint, one time she complained, and the other time she completely ignored me :) I had to put it into perspective and I realized I was exaggerating her defiance or disobedience. Granted there are days she is worse than other days but for the majority she is a good kid. I just had to step back and observe and realize where we really were at.

 

I agree with other posts that your kids are going to be better for others, that's kind of what I am teaching mine to be respectful and obedient. The relationship with parents, especially Mom, will be strained no matter how much time, because you usually spend time more one on one with them and sometimes, you are on their case. I really believe in the depth of dispare, a bad day, I could give up but today was a great day and I am proud of this day of school and I am choosing to focus on that, on this cold day in February!!

 

Good luck, and I read a quote today, "I homeschool because I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children " I have to keep that posted somewhere when I have feelings of defeat and that someone can do better!!

[Gentlemommy]

With dd, it isn't necessarily a respect thing...she is actually a pretty good kid. She does her work, even though it is hard for her, mostly without compliant. She listens to me, and I very rarely have any true issues with her. She's a typical kid, so yeah, she will 'try me' some times, but generally, she is a really great kid. But today, I saw...something else. She not only did the work, she pushed herself harder. Maybe it was the new environment, maybe it was the peers, maybe it was the teacher...who knows. I just know that both of us saw and felt a difference. I do know that a lot of it is ME. I learn completely differently than she does, and it's been hard for both of us. I also have two younger kids to deal with during school, which is distracting for dd. At CC, she was able to focus because ALL the kids in her class were her age and were focusing. They encouraged each other, helped each other, and worked together to solve problems. I loved being able to sit back and watch her shine. I absolutely do not want her in full time school, I don't think that would be a good thing for her at all. She is very sensitive, and I know the social aspect of school would eventually break her spirit. At CC, we get the best of both worlds-a once a week break from the norm, a small group of kids, a teacher who is a mom (and as such, is patient and understanding!) and yet, I am still close, still involved, and able to support her.

[Farrar]

With dd, it isn't necessarily a respect thing...she is actually a pretty good kid. She does her work, even though it is hard for her, mostly without compliant. She listens to me, and I very rarely have any true issues with her. She's a typical kid, so yeah, she will 'try me' some times, but generally, she is a really great kid. But today, I saw...something else. She not only did the work, she pushed herself harder.

 

 

This is my boys too. They can be a bit whiny and they give up too easily, but mostly they're pretty good. But they're just... more patient, more focused, more responsive when they're in a class or with a different teacher.

[mama27]

for an outside teacher than they do/would for yourself?

 

This is where I am at right now. It seems that all of my dc would work harder/better with an outside teacher (ps) than they do for me. I feel like all they do with me is argue, dwaddle, mess around with each-other, try to cop-out of the work, on and on.

 

I am very sad. I would hate to put them into PS next year, but sometimes I wonder if I'm being selfish by keeping them home. I would miss them so much. Sometimes I feel like I could be a better mom to them if we were not together 24/7. Then, sometimes I think not. Sigh...is anyone with me?

 

 

 

Yes! Ugh! I know some of my kids would work better for someone else and the reason I don't put them in ps is because that would not solve the problem of them learning to respect ME and their daddy. We wou;ld STILL have behavior issues with them, only then I would have ps attitudes and stuff to deal with.

Plus, ew!! We'd have to wake up SOOO early and get dressed!

No thanks!

No, you aren't being selfish. If it wasn't academics, they'd give you a hard time about something else. It's just part of parenting.

[Ellie]

That your dc work "better" does not mean that it really would be better to put them in school. Children don't only get other teachers who might--or might not, depending in the teacher *each and every year**; they also get teachers who must follow the guidelines established by the government, use the instructional materials required by the government (it is state and federal government officials who ultimately decide those things, you know), do testing and whatnot as required by the government...not to mention upwards of 25-30 other children who will have more of an effect on your children's mental well being than any teacher.

 

That may or may not be a trade-off you're willing to make.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

This may have already been mentioned, but just in case it hasn't. . .

 

My goal is for my dd to be internally driven. Settling for the quick and easy now may come at a price later. (Or it also may not. ;) Kids are confounding creatures :huh: --- who knows what will work for any one child. . .)

 

My dd willingly admits she tries harder for others (not that she is a slacker for me). My question is--What if a teacher doesn't set the bar as high as I do? So DD "tries harder" and is better behaved, so what? That doesn't necessarily lead to some later pay-off.

 

In the end I don't want the working hard or the good behavior to be for me or for a teacher. I want it to be for herself.

[Arcadia]

In the end I don't want the working hard or the good behavior to be for me or for a teacher. I want it to be for herself.

 

I agree with what you said. My kids however thrive on some peer pressure so I gladly outsource their german to saturday german school. They are not working for the teacher. They are seeing the effort that their peers are putting in and pulling up their socks.

 

[kentuckymom]

Let me give you a different perspective.... I'm an afterschooler, and my son is in second grade in public school. I LOVE the idea of homeschooling full time in theory, and I'm ready to jump in if DH every gets on board with it...... BUT at the same time, I see some real benefits to my son being in school. He really does work harder for outside teachers than he does for us, and this is true in all realms, not just academics. When he was younger, my husband worked and worked to teach him to swim because he loved the water. However, while he loved to play in the water with Mom and Dad, he refused to learn any swimming techniques until we put him in a formal class. He thrived, and learned to swim well midway through the second session. After that, he was quite happy to practice with Mom and Dad. He's not always perfectly behaved in school, at church, etc, but he's more willing to put forward his best effort on a regular basis.

 

IF I do ever enter the full time homeschooling world, I know for sure that I'll need to put my son in a formal coop situation at least once a week.

 

In contrast, my daughter (who, mind you, is only two) has so far shown tendencies quite different from her brother's. At two, she's learned more swimming techniques (wearing a flotation suit) than her brother had learned at four, and she's always eager to learn more. She's more eager to be read to at home and to engage in learning activities (counting, identifying shapes and colors, etc) at home. I don't know if I'll ever homeschool her full time, but I think it would be a much easier road than I'd have with her brother if I did.

 

I can't say whether school would be better for the OP's kids. I think what someone in her situation would want to do is to first identify her reasons for homeschooling. If the public schools are very poor and private school isn't an option for whatever reason, then homeschooling is clearly the right choice, and she should consider what opportunities there are to outsource some of her children's learning and whether the expense would be manageable and worth the potential results. If she homeschools because she wants her children to have a Christian education, she should look at whether there are any Christian schools in her area and whether such a school would be both affordable and a good environment for her particular kids. Also, I recommend investigating whether there are any University Model schools in the area or any public charters that have a part time program.

 

Just my two cents coming from a different perspective. I know homeschooling is an absolute wonderful choice for many kids and many families, and a change in parenting and/or a different educational model can sometimes solve apparent problems, but please remember that putting a child in school does not make you a bad parent or guarantee that your child will get a sub par education. The best way to guarantee that your child will get a good education is to be involved with it, and that can happen even if your child is in school.

[a27mom]

I have thought about this a lot, and I have come to an epiphany of sorts.

 

I am certain my daughter would behave so much better in an outside classroom. Her Sunday school and Awana teachers adore her.

 

This used to bother me, would she be better off in school? But then I considered what is the point. I already know she is good at behaving for an authority figure in public. She really doesn't need more practice at this. There is no correlation to that skill and her learning more or having a better education.

 

Our homeschool has 2 advantages that actually contribute to this "whiny" behavior, appropriate challenge and continuous direct assessment. In direct teaching in public school each individual child is only required to answer at most 4% of the oral questions. Written work is often completed right or wrong then returned at a later time. There really is a lot less pressure to actually perform academically on a day to day basis in a public school.

 

But easy isn't always better. My daughter is building internal motivation, and coping skills, which I believe will serve her better as a grown up.

 

The hard stuff, challenging stuff, is what they really need to learn. Your child is also learning how to deal with intimate family relationships, a skill that will serve her well as an adult.

 

Think of it like math. If your child was could easily complete her math book without any intervention on your part, you would skip it and move on to the next one. Sounds like your child doesn't need an outside teacher, that would be too easy ;)

[Mandylubug]

Actually, I lived at our PS when our kids were enrolled. The teachers didn't grasp how to reach my ADHD kinesthetic child. I honestly felt like I was having to make suggestions to help him prosper. At one point I realized I had been at the school every day in one classroom or the other and still disappointed in the amount of instruction that was given to reach my childrens' learning styles. I do feel like I can reach them and teach them more than the typical teacher.

 

We did have one extraordinary teacher in AZ that understood my son, met him where he was and he blossomed and did wonders in that class. I say all this to state that the grass is always greener on the other side but the teachers 9 times out of 10 will not be able to accomodate, trim and customize the learning experience to meet your children where they are.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I agree with what you said. My kids however thrive on some peer pressure so I gladly outsource their german to saturday german school. They are not working for the teacher. They are seeing the effort that their peers are putting in and pulling up their socks.

 

I didn't mean to imply that outsourcing or even sending a child to school is automatically bad. I am all for whatever works best in a given situation at a given point in time. :) I was just stating one of my overall goals--not the one path to get there. Remembering that goal helps me make decisions. Positive peer pressure in an outsourced class is not a bad thing! It can be a stepping stone to internal motivation.

 

Developing internal motivation is like pretty much everything else----a dark, thorny path with clear mud. ;)

[mama2cntrykids]

Once again many, many good views and thoughts. Yesterday was a horrid day, I admit. Can you believe that I wasn't even thinking of what time of year it is (of course you can lol)? That was an excellent point made by a pp. We've been going since the second week in August and the work load has ramped up recently for everyone.

 

It feels good to read so many reaffirming words. I need to keep things in perspective. We all do sometimes ;).

[Dmmetler]

Is it possible partially that what you've got outsourced are the more "Fun" things? Because, I can tell you that, yes, my DD is more attentive to, say, her ballet teacher than when I'm trying to teach her geography-but that has a lot to do with the fact that she loves ballet and barely tolerates geography. Same with our co-op. I mean, at co-op, she gets to make projects, talk about the weekly topic with other kids, and so on. It's a lot more interesting than mommy saying "OK, now do a narration on the chapter of SOTW".

 

I will say that as DD is getting into higher level material, I'm starting to do more online/software based practice. DD can't argue with a computer when she's on math problem 6/10-she can sit there and be stubborn and hold her breath until she turns blue, and it won't care. Tears, fussing, outright stalling...doesn't matter.

[KarenNC]

I was just asking my husband the other day whether we should consider putting her in school fulltime :) . I am hoping that by the time she's a junior in high school she will be doing the majority of her work at the community college. It's not outside the realm of possibility that we will look at a public high school in some form (we may have a virtual charter option in the state by that time).

 

With my strong-willed kid, we've reached a compromise this year, for various reasons. She is in an outside class for writing and art, and we use a dvd presentation for her math. In writing, she was not doing much for me and was fighting corrections---in the class, she's doing really well and improving greatly. In art, I can't draw my way out of a paper bag and she had reached a point where she needed specific technique instruction (it's her passion). In math, we had to do a combination of finding a better curriculum fit (Singapore led to nothing but fights and tears for several years---I'm apparently a slow learner :rolleyes: ---and Saxon has been a godsend) and adding in the Art Reed videos to 1) take me a bit more out of the loop and 2) give her a teacher with a different approach as she learns math much differently than I do. I fully admit that the pig-headed gene is dominant in our family and it comes through me. ;) Having a kid going through puberty while I'm entering menopause doesn't help either.

 

Going forward, I can see adding in more outside classes to at least supplement core things. We'll continue with this art teacher (art is a core for this kid), the math dvds, and with this writing teacher for the next couple of years (through her lit analysis class). I'd like to add in Lukeion Project classes for ancient history in 10th grade, may need to find something outside for more Spanish practice, and need to find some way to have her do more labs (they just don't happen here as much as I would like them to).

[Mom-ninja.]

It helps to know that it's normal. Even I do it and I bet you do to. I'm show my true feelings, especially the negative ones, to dh when I wouldn't ever do so to other people.

 

The people you love and trust the most are the ones who see your bad side because, well, you love them and trust them.

[fraidycat]

I KNOW for a fact that both of mine do work better for, listen better to "outside" adults. They were in public school. I got glowing reports of wonderful behavior, maturity, helpfulness, friendliness, and on and on.

 

I was like this :bored: :glare: :confused1: :ohmy: :confused: and thinking you surely cannot be speaking about MY kids. LOL However, my mom assures me that she felt the same way when she got the same kind of reports from my teachers. In the end, I didn't turn out too bad. ;)

 

I knew what I was getting in to on the "works well for Mom" (as in, not so much!), but there are so many other reasons to have them at home. Have you reviewed your reasons lately? Are they still valid?

[boscopup]

When behavior issues start cropping up, I usually have to look at myself. Am I being as strict as I need to be, or have I been to lax? I don't need to be a drill sergeant, but I do need to be appropriately strict. Have I been consistent with when and how often we do school? Sometimes it's easy for "life" to get in the way, and then we just don't get around to doing school. If that happens too often, behavior starts to break down - they need a consistent schedule, so they know what to expect and so they don't think they can get out of school by doing xyz.

 

For dawdling, two things help here: 1) making sure the work is appropriate level (my oldest tends to dawdle most if the work is too easy), and 2) following through with consequences. There were several days that we were having trouble with DS1 getting his work done, and my DH finally said that if his work wasn't done, he wasn't going to hockey practice (and he's the goalie, so it's noticeable if he's not there). Missing one practice turned him around pretty quick. He knew we would follow through on that consequence! So make sure you aren't giving empty threats. Give them a strong consequence and follow through, even if it pains you. I hate for him to miss hockey. I really do. But missing it that one time really helped our school day. DS1 was going on an overnight trip yesterday with DH, and we had some interruptions this week that I wasn't expecting, so we were a bit behind. I had DS catching up on what we'd not done earlier in the week, and on Thursday, he had 3 handwriting pages to do, a math practice page and a cumulative review (several pages - I usually break it up over 2 days), 2 English lessons, 2 spelling lessons... and that's just the stuff he needed to do independently! And then two brackets fell off his brand new, 1 day old braces, so we had to have an unplanned orthodontist trip after lunch AND it was speech therapy day for DS2. Since DS1 had dawdled some during the week, I told him that I would send any undone work with him on the trip. You know what? He got everything done before he left. He did all of his spelling and math in the van to/from/during speech therapy. He did handwriting after we got home, and he worked hard. He did one English lesson, and I hadn't gone over the 2nd one with him, so I moved it to next week and told him how proud I was that he had gotten so much work done without complaint. He was done by 1pm, including work done with me and having speech therapy and orthodontist visit. I think he did all this because he knew that DH was going to make him do his work on the trip, and he'd really rather read his Kindle. :) So yes, I use DH as the "principal" sometimes, and that works pretty well.

 

Things like falling out of the chair used to happen a lot, but I got pretty strict about it. I asked him one day if he would fall out of his chair for Mrs. S (his last school teacher). He said no. I told him to give me the same respect. He stopped falling out of his chair.

 

All of my kids are very good in classroom situations. At Bible class Sunday/Wednesday, they happily go to their classes, listen to the story, answer questions, sit nicely at the table (without falling out of a chair ;) ), etc. They are perfectly behaved. My oldest was good in his private school classroom. The only issue he had was the 1st semester of K, when they were learning letters and he was miserably bored (he could read at a mid-second grade level already). He started talking with friends and cutting up a bit (and this is not the class clown type of kid... that would be DS2). Second semester was much better though, and he stopped talking in class. He had no behavior issues in 1st grade, despite being bored (and now it was boring with no party aspect to help the boredom). His private school had wonderful teachers and wonderful students. He didn't learn nearly as much 'bad stuff" as he would have learned in a public school. It really was a very different atmosphere. But the fact remains - he wasn't being academically challenged. So yeah, I could put him back in school and have him behaving perfectly during school time, but he wouldn't be getting the education that he is capable of. He'd be coasting again, and lacking worth ethic. I don't want that for my son.