SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[Audrey]

I don't think you need anything for Logic for an 8yo, but you could toss him a Mindbenders book every now and then if you think he'd have fun with it. I don't know what CHOLL is, so can't comment on its viability.

 

Just my own preference, but I'd have some handwriting in there for the 2 youngers. 8yo could be starting cursive. Again, just my preference, and YMMV on that.

 

Galore Park -- are you doing Latin Prep? With the 8yo, that might be a bit early/a bit much. It looks cute and cartoony, but it's intensive and moves fast. Have you thought about Minimus for the younger ones? It's very cute, relaxed pace and will build up their vocab, not to mention their comfort level, with Latin pre-GP Latin Prep.

 

Just my 2-cents. :)

[Izzy]

What about reading for your first grader? I would add in reading and Explode the Code. I like Handwriting without Tears for handwriting. What about All about Spelling or Soaring with Spelling for spelling?

[Izzy]

Does CHOLL include writing for the 2 older ones?

[Guest inoubliable]

how do you get your kids to do so much! mine fight me every step of the way . . . sigh.

 

 

They don't do everything they should every day, that's for sure. The one who does the best is my middle kiddo. My oldest still needs me to be on him every minute to make sure that he's working and not staring at the wall.

[Guest inoubliable]

I don't think you need anything for Logic for an 8yo, but you could toss him a Mindbenders book every now and then if you think he'd have fun with it. I don't know what CHOLL is, so can't comment on its viability.

 

Just my own preference, but I'd have some handwriting in there for the 2 youngers. 8yo could be starting cursive. Again, just my preference, and YMMV on that.

 

Galore Park -- are you doing Latin Prep? With the 8yo, that might be a bit early/a bit much. It looks cute and cartoony, but it's intensive and moves fast. Have you thought about Minimus for the younger ones? It's very cute, relaxed pace and will build up their vocab, not to mention their comfort level, with Latin pre-GP Latin Prep.

 

Just my 2-cents. :)

 

Mindbenders. Excellent. I'll throw a few of those onto the wishlist for a fun, rainy day sort of thing. Thanks!

 

8yo has started on some cursive and seems to be doing well with it. They all learned D'Nealian to start with and I really do think that helped a lot. Any suggestions for a cursive book to pick up for the littles?

 

Yes. The Latin Prep. I had thought to just go slow with it for DS8. He did GSWL this year and did well. I looked at Minimus and it just seemed really expensive and I couldn't find a place to see the actual lessons. I'll look into that again. I think I'll stick with GSWL for DS5. If DS8 goes through Minimus, where does he go from there? Into Latin Prep?

[Guest inoubliable]

Does CHOLL include writing for the 2 older ones?

 

Well, they do have to summarize the book that they read at the end. And there are pages where they do some copywork, and some where they do small summaries of certain chapters of stories. We do more discussion than writing, to be honest. The kids had attempted to keep a blog this year where they could practice typing and putting together a summary. I might bring back that idea.

[Guest inoubliable]

What about reading for your first grader? I would add in reading and Explode the Code. I like Handwriting without Tears for handwriting. What about All about Spelling or Soaring with Spelling for spelling?

 

He's reading okay so far. I confess that I don't know how many sight words he has, and I haven't given him anything too challenging but he rockets right through the books on Starfall. He went through all of the Explode the Code books last year. I'll check into HWT, I have seen it mentioned around here before but I've never looked at it. Same with the spelling. The two older kids did those Spelling Workout books last year and hated them.

[Lady Florida.]

Ds hates the physical act of writing with. a. burning. seething. hatred. I let him type most things. Never did copywork. :tongue_smilie:

 

IMO, diagramming sentences might be useful for those who are not naturally grammatically inclined. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I always let ds type too. I was worried that he would never be able to write, but eventually he got to a point where he would sometimes choose writing over typing. He will never have good penmanship, but writing is extremely difficult for many people with adhd. As long as his writing is legible, I'm okay with that and so is he.

 

We briefly did diagramming, but I don't think it's necessary if you can pick up grammar without it.

 

 

how do you get your kids to do so much! mine fight me every step of the way . . . sigh.

 

You're not alone. Ds fights me almost every step of the way. The older he gets and the more work he needs to do, the more he fights me. I'd rather he fight me though, than all of his teachers at a high school.

 

I don't know what CHOLL is, so can't comment on its viability.

 

I don't know either.

 

Just my own preference, but I'd have some handwriting in there for the 2 youngers. 8yo could be starting cursive. Again, just my preference, and YMMV on that.

 

 

I used Handwriting Without Tears for my reluctant hand-writer. I didn't get the manipulatives, just the books. It's not the prettiest cursive, but it's functional and I recommend it for any kid who hates to write or has trouble with the physical act of writing.

[Lady Florida.]

This one looks interesting. It had never occurred to me that adoption was looked at as another way to evangelize children. If you're fostering and adopting you're going to have quite a few children pass through your care. What better way to indoctrinate children who may never hear about Jeebus? Makes sense.

 

It's pretty common among the religious homeschoolers around here. And yes, they do it so they can indoctrinate. I'm not saying they don't care about the kids, but their main goal is to introduce them to Jesus.

[Guest inoubliable]

CHOLL = http://www.classicalhouseoflearning.com

[Jennifer3141]

 

That's worse than taking kids in simply for the payment the state'll give you for doing so, IMO.

 

That makes me literally sick to my stomach.

[Guest inoubliable]

That makes me literally sick to my stomach.

 

Same.

[Jennifer3141]

Oh sure. Audrey had to go and one up me on the reading recommendations... :laugh:

[Mom-ninja.]

That must be the first and last time in my life to think WTG Pat Robertson!

 

The Kids Without God website is great! I'm going to look at it on the computer tomorrow because my phone is being wonky with the site.

 

 

I'm looking at the site now. Actually, looking the teen site and trying to decide if my oldest is still a bit young for it or not. There is a book list and there might be something for me.

[Audrey]

 

Mindbenders. Excellent. I'll throw a few of those onto the wishlist for a fun, rainy day sort of thing. Thanks!

 

8yo has started on some cursive and seems to be doing well with it. They all learned D'Nealian to start with and I really do think that helped a lot. Any suggestions for a cursive book to pick up for the littles?

 

Yes. The Latin Prep. I had thought to just go slow with it for DS8. He did GSWL this year and did well. I looked at Minimus and it just seemed really expensive and I couldn't find a place to see the actual lessons. I'll look into that again. I think I'll stick with GSWL for DS5. If DS8 goes through Minimus, where does he go from there? Into Latin Prep?

 

 

We did Minimus (both books) before Latin Prep. If I hadn't already sent them Bill a couple of years ago, I'd have sent them to you. They are very pricey, but they're British, so you're paying for that limited availability + overseas product. There are other nice elementary-age Latin programs, though, so don't sweat it. I was just suggesting it because IME Latin Prep is a bit of a tough one even for grade 5 or 6 or so, unless you've got a good grasp on foreign language already and have a natural aptitude for it. Again, JMO and YMMV. Always do what fits for your child. Always. No matter what anyone else uses or says to use. :)

 

D'Nealian is a very nice handwriting. If that's working, stick with it. For anyone who has a kid for whom handwriting is a chore, I second Kathy's recommendation of HWT. She is right. It isn't pretty, but it is legible and functional. For some kids (e.g. my ds), legible and functional is the reasonable goal.

[Audrey]

Oh sure. Audrey had to go and one up me on the reading recommendations... :laugh:

 

 

Oops. :blushing:

[IsabelC]

I'm looking at the site now. Actually, looking the teen site and trying to decide if my oldest is still a bit young for it or not. There is a book list and there might be something for me.

 

 

That site looks good to me, although my kids aren't anywhere near ready for it yet.

And the associated site Scarleteen is probably the best sex ed resource I have ever seen anywhere (but again, only for the older kids and young adults).

[Guest inoubliable]

Okay. I think Minimus is going to be a good fit for DS8. Is there something anyone can suggest to fit in between Minimus and Galore Park's Latin Prep?

[jeninok]

Hold up! Did I just agree with Pat freaking Robertson? I need to sit down and have a drink. This is a very strange occurrence indeedy.

 

 

I am not sure what to do about this, I also agree with him. I think I might need wine, or to go twirl around under the trees, or something.

[nmoira]

Okay. I think Minimus is going to be a good fit for DS8. Is there something anyone can suggest to fit in between Minimus and Galore Park's Latin Prep?

 

Lively Latin. BB1 is grammar light but vocabulary heavy, which will help tremendously with LP. I'm not as big on BB2... too much grammar with too few exercises.

[nmoira]

I am not sure what to do about this, I also agree with him. I think I might need wine, or to go twirl around under the trees, or something.

 

Wine before. After is too late.

[jeninok]

Can I blame my sudden migraine on the fact that I agreed with him? Like something split inside my head and did some damage :)

[Jennifer3141]

Can I blame my sudden migraine on the fact that I agreed with him? Like something split inside my head and did some damage :)

 

 

Stroking out?? :laugh:

[Paisley Hedgehog]

There is a question that has been kicking around in my head for a while now, but I've been hesitant to ask it and out myself as a Complete Idiot. This morning I'm feeling brave. What is the opinion / belief / stance of this group regarding Tarot cards? (Yes, I'm serious). My former church considered these a sort of gateway drug into the occult (along with yoga, Ouija boards, and Harry Potter) and were horrified that anyone would own a deck. I've always thought they were beautiful and kind of neat, though I don't invest them with any special power. Discuss? or is this too edgy a topic?

 

(I was trying to wait for the groups to go private! Really! Please don't quote me in case I need to erase this and hide again.)

 

 

EDITED: Just thought I should add to my above question since I usually just lurk in this thread ... (in other words, why I am not a troll ;) )

 

I was thinking about intrinsic power (the power something has in itself) vs invested power (the power something has because someone allows it power). I hope that makes sense.

[Lady Florida.]

What is the opinion / belief / stance of this group regarding Tarot cards?

 

 

I didn't quote a name, just the question. I don't speak for the group, only for myself. I think Tarot cards are 1. a sometimes fun parlor game, and 2. a ripoff when someone charges for a reading.

 

I think gateway to hell stuff is just plain silly, but then I also think the idea of hell is just plain silly.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

I think Tarot cards are harmless fun.

[Laura Corin]

Third Grade -

1. Math - TT
    
   
2. Logic - ?? I don't think I even need a formal logic here, especially with this kid. If there's something cool out there for an 8yo, let me know.
    
   
3. Spelling/vocab - ?? Not sure on this one. He's a natural speller and makes connections to words just from remembering Latin lessons.
    
   
4. Literature - CHOLL
    
   
5. Science - Mr. Qs Chemistry
    
   
6. Geography - playing around on Seterra
    
   
7. Latin - Galore Park
   

 

I wouldn't recommend Latin Prep for below age 10. My boys are very bright and were definitely tested by Latin Prep.

 

ETA: I see I was late with this - Minimus is a fun option.

 

Laura

[Guest inoubliable]

Agreeing with Kathy and Helen. They can be a fun little thing to do.

 

Yoga?? :confused1: I hadn't heard that one before.

 

Ouija boards? They can be fun, too! I wasn't allowed one when I was growing up but a older cousin had one. We used to get it out at her house and have a ton of fun trying to creep the other one out.

[Desert Rat]

I own a Rider deck an exboyfriend's mom gave many, many years ago. I see no harm in it. Not that I can read them, LOL. I mean I *can* if I have the book sitting next to me. It's too much trouble for me to memorize all of them. I like the history.

I also own Runes, which are a little more interesting. Again, I can only read them with the book near. :)

A gateway to the occult?

I heard that in church growing up and I went to a moderate church. I think the leaders/adults were trying to stop kids from going down a path that would lead them away from giving them our money. For me, it wasn't the tarot cards that sent me on my way; it was their own hypocrisies and inconsistencies. (I'm an angry atheist this morning. And yes, I'm still brooding about my helpmeet friend.)

[Desert Rat]

Agreeing with Kathy and Helen. They can be a fun little thing to do.

 

Yoga?? :confused1: I hadn't heard that one before.

 

 

 

Oh, I about popped a vein when I saw some groups had changed Sun Salutation to Son Salutation so Christians could practice with good conscience. I've been practicing yoga for over 20 years. Don't change my stuff to better suit your needs!

 

Yoga is actually tied into Hinduism. So yes, conservatives would see a problem with it.

[Guest inoubliable]

I wouldn't recommend Latin Prep for below age 10. My boys are very bright and were definitely tested by Latin Prep.

 

ETA: I see I was late with this - Minimus is a fun option.

 

Laura

 

Okay. I'm running my Latin past you then.

 

My first grader will do Getting Started With Latin in the fall. He's already picked up a bit and he knows more French than his brothers do. I'm stumped on what to do with him after that. Minimus, I guess? I'm trying to find a way that they have Latin every year. They all really like it and do well.

 

My third grader has done GSWL, so he'll do Minimus 1 next year. Then Minimus 2 for fourth grade. GP's Latin Prep in fifth and sixth grades. GP's SYRWTLL in seventh and eighth. My rising seventh grader will follow that, too.

 

What comes after that? What's a good high school level Latin? I can stretch SYRWTLL if that needs to be done (if it's too challenging to be done in a year or two, I mean). What do I do, though, if we get to high school and I need something for those years?

[Guest inoubliable]

Oh, I about popped a vein when I say they had changed Sun Salutation to Son Salutation so Christians could practice with good conscience. I've been practicing yoga for over 20 years. Don't change my stuff to better suit your needs!

 

Yoga is actually tied into Hinduism. So yes, conservatives would see a problem with it.

 

Ohhhh. Well, the Hinduism, okay. I get that now. But...the occult? Do Christians see Hinduism as the occult??

 

I'm starting to see that the conservative Christians are....different..from the RCC in ways that I hadn't expected.

[chiguirre]

The only person in know irl who does Tarot cards is my mil. TBH, she does all sorts of Santeria and occultish stuff, but she's not an atheist. I think she really believes in the Venezuelan version of Santeria in tandem with Christianity. It's not a topic I've ever discussed with her in any depth. The only time I've ever had to have an unpleasantish conversation with her about any religious topic was to ask her not to tie red strings on the kids. After that, we stayed far away from the whole issue.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

I was thinking about this morning how a deck of cards means nothing in themselves, but if you take them away from someone to destroy them, they gain a whole new significance just by that action. Am I way off? I am well aware this may be quite juvenile pop psychology. :blushing:

[Lady Florida.]

Yoga?? :confused1: I hadn't heard that one before.

 

 

 

Yoga and martial arts. There are Christian martial arts studios around here. Because, you know, there's meditation and other Eastern religion stuff in martial arts. :tongue_smilie:

[HelenNotOfTroy]

I find that the religions of the native peoples that 19th century Europeans encountered are all a problem to conservative Christians. This is, of course, in addition to the occult practices of Europeans and Americans. You know, seances, hypnosis, card reading (not to mention playing cards!), astrology, and Dungeons and Dragons.

 

ETA: and dancing, for many conservative Christians, dancing is apparently a very bad thing. Of course, I have seen some dancing I wasn't too sure about myself.

[Laura Corin]

Okay. I'm running my Latin past you then.

 

My first grader will do Getting Started With Latin in the fall. He's already picked up a bit and he knows more French than his brothers do. I'm stumped on what to do with him after that. Minimus, I guess? I'm trying to find a way that they have Latin every year. They all really like it and do well.

 

My third grader has done GSWL, so he'll do Minimus 1 next year. Then Minimus 2 for fourth grade. GP's Latin Prep in fifth and sixth grades. GP's SYRWTLL in seventh and eighth. My rising seventh grader will follow that, too.

 

What comes after that? What's a good high school level Latin? I can stretch SYRWTLL if that needs to be done (if it's too challenging to be done in a year or two, I mean). What do I do, though, if we get to high school and I need something for those years?

 

 

I'd rejig it a bit. Minimus was designed (by one of my old Latin teachers) for 7-10 year olds, so moving your first grader into Minimus at age 7 would be fine. So that would be age 7-8 and 8-9. For your 1st and 3rd grader, I'd slow down a bit and not get to Latin Prep until ten or older. There's really no rush and LP is a serious programme.

 

There are three Latin Prep books and you could easily spread them out a bit: using the workbooks and making sure you do great memorisation. Calvin did 2 1/2 books in about four years - it was plenty fast enough. We actually did the first half of book 3 twice because we felt we had not absorbed it fully.

 

SY Latin starts from the beginning of Latin and is designed for beginners of about age 13. If you are going to use it as a follow-on from Latin Prep, then the publisher recommends LP 1, 2 and 3 and then SY 3 as a top-up and extension. Starting at age 10, you could easily do LP plus SY for five or six years before having to find a new programme. After SY 3 you are well prepared for classical texts - that's what Calvin is doing this year.

 

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[Mom-ninja.]

I place tarot cards in the same category as all other symbols in that they only have meaning to those who want them and give them meaning. Symbols are given the power of invoking very powerful emotions in humans. Take away the human emotions and things are just things.

[Lady Florida.]

The only person in know irl who does Tarot cards is my mil.

 

 

The only people I know IRL who use them are New Age types.

[Guest inoubliable]

I find that the religions of the native peoples that 19th century Europeans encountered are all a problem to conservative Christians. This is, of course, in addition to the occult practices of Europeans and Americans. You know, seances, hypnosis, card reading (not to mention playing cards!), astrology, and Dungeons and Dragons.

 

ETA: and dancing, for many conservative Christians, dancing is apparently a very bad thing. Of course, I have seen some dancing I wasn't too sure about myself.

 

 

Um. So....Footloose? That's a for-real... there aren't whole towns like that, are there??? I have no idea why, but my mind is completely blown at finding out that conservative Christians think dancing is a bad thing!

[Desert Rat]

 

Ohhhh. Well, the Hinduism, okay. I get that now. But...the occult? Do Christians see Hinduism as the occult??

 

I'm starting to see that the conservative Christians are....different..from the RCC in ways that I hadn't expected.

 

 

Anything *not* Christian should be discouraged. Occult? Not yoga. D & D, tarot, etc., yes. I remember my parents flipping out over lyrics of songs on the radio, during their more conservative phase. They were worried that they were "occult" lyrics. I think it was a buzz word at the time. Yoga wasn't as popular then as it is now. And it's been a long time since I associated closely with religious groups. I'll ask my friend. LOL

[Guest inoubliable]

I'd rejig it a bit. Minimus was designed (by one of my old Latin teachers) for 7-10 year olds, so moving your first grader into Minimus at age 7 would be fine. So that would be age 7-8 and 8-9. For your 1st and 3rd grader, I'd slow down a bit and not get to Latin Prep until ten or older. There's really no rush and LP is a serious programme.

 

There are three Latin Prep books and you could easily spread them out a bit: using the workbooks and making sure you do great memorisation. Calvin did 2 1/2 books in about four years - it was plenty fast enough. We actually did the first half of book 3 twice because we felt we had not absorbed it fully.

 

SY Latin starts from the beginning of Latin and is designed for beginners of about age 13. If you are going to use it as a follow-on from Latin Prep, then the publisher recommends LP 1, 2 and 3 and then SY 3 as a top-up and extension. Starting at age 10, you could easily do LP plus SY for five or six years before having to find a new programme. After SY 3 you are well prepared for classical texts - that's what Calvin is doing this year.

 

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

 

Fantastic, thank you! I think what was throwing me off is the age recommendations. I'm used to grade recommendations. (And how cool that you know the author of Minimus!!)

[HelenNotOfTroy]

 

Um. So....Footloose? That's a for-real... there aren't whole towns like that, are there??? I have no idea why, but my mind is completely blown at finding out that conservative Christians think dancing is a bad thing!

 

 

My mother grew up on a farm outside a very small town. They had one Protestant church. At one point, they had dances there. Then they got a new pastor and he was a different denomination and the dances were stopped. This was, of course, many years ago, but several major denominations believe dancing to be wrong. I love the part in Footloose when he is reading to the town council from the Bible.

[Guest inoubliable]

Anything *not* Christian should be discouraged. Occult? Not yoga. D & D, tarot, etc., yes. I remember my parents flipping out over lyrics of songs on the radio, during their more conservative phase. They were worried that they were "occult" lyrics. I think it was a buzz word at the time. Yoga wasn't as popular then as it is now. And it's been a long time since I associated closely with religious groups. I'll ask my friend. LOL

 

Wow. I'm just speechless. I can't...I don't... wow. I had no idea. And I thought growing up in the RCC was restrictive and silly.

[Ipsey]

 

Um. So....Footloose? That's a for-real... there aren't whole towns like that, are there??? I have no idea why, but my mind is completely blown at finding out that conservative Christians think dancing is a bad thing!

 

One of my best friends in high school wasn't allowed to go to the Homecoming dance, evcen though we elected her HOmecoming Queen.

 

I actually had the audacity to go to her father (A Church of Christ preacher) and say I wouldn't let her dance, that she could just go in and her her crown and say her speech with the king and then I would "bring her" right out.

 

Nope. Not a chance.

 

We're still friends. She's an agnostic now. And she just came out as a lesbian. Not that I'm surprised. :)

[dbmamaz]

tarot cards are just another superstition. play with it if you think its fun. lots of people like horoscopes. its just all games and silliness. like all superstitions and rituals imo.

 

i'm a tad surprised at angry athiests who dont have a clue how extreme some religious ppl are. no dancing, i've known about that forever. seriously, havent you run across the people who wont put pants on newborn girls because all girls and women have to wear skirts? what drives me nuts is most of it is all about human power - some power-hungry minister who wants total control over the people around him and uses god as an excuse. why do people trust people who claim to speak for god, more than they trust the obvious truth that these people are only power-hungry? I'm not saying all clergy are power hungry or crazy, but there are plenty of power-hungry and crazy clergy who have large followings.

[Lady Florida.]

Wow. I'm just speechless. I can't...I don't... wow. I had no idea. And I thought growing up in the RCC was restrictive and silly.

 

I had no idea until I started homeschooling. We never came in contact with those types, though they were obviously here in my own town.

 

Growing up I never felt the RCC was restrictive, but that's probably because my family, even extended family, were all pretty much cafeteria Catholics.

[dbmamaz]

and you know there are people who dont celebrate xmas because it isnt xtian enough . . not to mention halloween, obviously.

[Ipsey]

Anything *not* Christian should be discouraged. Occult? Not yoga. D & D, tarot, etc., yes. I remember my parents flipping out over lyrics of songs on the radio, during their more conservative phase. They were worried that they were "occult" lyrics. I think it was a buzz word at the time. Yoga wasn't as popular then as it is now. And it's been a long time since I associated closely with religious groups. I'll ask my friend. LOL

 

Even on this board, there's been a lot of chat about the spiritually dangerous aspects of Yoga--among certain believers.

 

You should go find the thread "things you were once told were evil" or something like that.

 

That was a wonderful/fascinating/laughable thread!

[Guest inoubliable]

tarot cards are just another superstition. play with it if you think its fun. lots of people like horoscopes. its just all games and silliness. like all superstitions and rituals imo.

 

i'm a tad surprised at angry athiests who dont have a clue how extreme some religious ppl are. no dancing, i've known about that forever. seriously, havent you run across the people who wont put pants on newborn girls because all girls and women have to wear skirts? what drives me nuts is most of it is all about human power - some power-hungry minister who wants total control over the people around him and uses god as an excuse. why do people trust people who claim to speak for god, more than they trust the obvious truth that these people are only power-hungry? I'm not saying all clergy are power hungry or crazy, but there are plenty of power-hungry and crazy clergy who have large followings.

 

 

 

*sputter* Pants on newborn girls is a no-no?? I had no idea about some of this!! I can be an angry atheist when it comes to the RCC, but I feel like I *know* what to be angry about in regards to them. And I can be angry when I see a religion that has very obvious anti-women issues.

 

No dancing? No music? No pants??? Is this something they interpreted out of the bible or is this something that some crazed pastors insist on out of their own need for control?