SOCIAL GROUP: Exploring Orthodox Christianity

[PrincessMommy]

Briva,

 

Here is an explanation of the Feast day from Fr. Tom Hopko's "The Orthodox Faith" series.:

 

http://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/worship/the-church-year/entrance-of-the-theotokos-to-the-temple

 

And, I would encourage you to experience the services and concern yourself less with "getting it". Does that make sense? Experience God through the services and don't worry if you like it or agree with it or anything. Just go and *be present*. Take your time and don't feel rushed. Give yourself time to grieve what has been lost and the happy memories you have from your previous churches.

 

There are definitely times I come away from the liturgy and I'm drained. Definitely. It's not called "Liturgy" for nothin' ;) But for many of us there's something that calls us back... there's a longing for being back there. I think that's what people are talking about.

[milovany]

Milovany, I'm having a hard time getting used to your new avatar. I keep thinking it's Caitilin posting! :)

 

 

Hi everyone! I had to change my avatar a little since the photo got stretched and looked weird, I thought.

 

 

This is why I changed my avatar -- my nesting doll got all fat. Which, ahem, maybe I should just let be since, well ..... anyway! I could put her back, cropped like this one. I do like this one, too -- it's St. Juliana of Lazarevo, my patron saint.

[Alenee]

Briva,

 

Here is an explanation of the Feast day from Fr. Tom Hopko's "The Orthodox Faith" series.:

 

http://oca.org/ortho...s-to-the-temple

 

And, I would encourage you to experience the services and concern yourself less with "getting it". Does that make sense? Experience God through the services and don't worry if you like it or agree with it or anything. Just go and *be present*. Take your time and don't feel rushed. Give yourself time to grieve what has been lost and the happy memories you have from your previous churches.

 

There are definitely times I come away from the liturgy and I'm drained. Definitely. It's not called "Liturgy" for nothin' ;) But for many of us there's something that calls us back... there's a longing for being back there. I think that's what people are talking about.

 

 

Yes! to all PrincessMommy said. Thank you for posting the link, too. :)

 

Briva, I understand what you mean about newbie converts. It seemed to me, whenever I was in a room, the conversation went to conversion. That wasn't all bad but at times, it left me contemplating what I hadn't had for so long and that stirred feelings of anger. I had to remember that everyone has their own journey, but not to forsake where I had come from. I would encourage you to get to know people. They'll help you to heal.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I started reading about the Orthodox faith when everyone here started asking about it. Intrigued me and I wanted to visit a church but wasn't one near me. I went to the Greek festival and was able to sit in the church and hear about that group but the guy was monotone and my dh and kids begged to leave. I went to the chapel and spoke with a wonderful lady who answered a lot of my questions but told me to come to service late with kids b/c it's almost 2 hours long. So I kinda gave up on the idea of the church in my area working for our family.

 

But I long for more prayer time and something in my life. I printed out from one of the church sites a prayer order and things to read daily and will have to start there.

 

The fasting I haven't figured out yet. I understand it's different every day depending on the church calendar but as someone who's interested in trying it I would prefer a list of what I can eat over what I can't, lol.

 

Anyway, prayerfully searching for something more right now....sorta trying this on. I researched and walked away. But it keeps bringing me back.

[Kathryn]

Tess - Apps that I've found incredibly helpful:

Pray Always - is like your own pocket prayer book on your phone

Daily Readings - has the fasts, feasts, saints, and the readings for each day

Ancient Faith Radio - an absolutely astounding collection of podcast topics, plus music

[PrincessMommy]

tess - I researched and walked away too. Sometimes our circumstances and whatnot cause us to need more time. ((hugs)) I walked away in 2001 and started going back in 2005. When I first started my tenative steps back I also tried to live the Orthodox way without going to services. Honestly, it was kind of hard. Like you, I didn't know what I was doing....plus I was disconnected from the Orthodox community. I wouldn't worry about fasting. If I were to do it again I'd concentrate on prayers and reading one of The Lives of the Saints each day. I recieved a lot of encouragement by reading them back when I was first entering the church.

 

that said I wouldn't let the almost 2hr service hold you back. Maybe because I had a long experience with the Charismatic movement, which easily have 1.5-2hr services, it didn't bother me. I would gently encourage you to give it a try - at least a few times. The long distance, I know, can be daunting... especially if you have small kids.

 

PM me and let me know where in VA you are - if you don't mind. Maybe there's something you didn't find the first time.

[PrincessMommy]

another place to find the Lives of the Saints is here:

 

http://www.westsrbdio.org/prolog/my.html

 

also, any of the jurisdictions will have that function too. I just linked to the OCA's website.

[Juniper]

I started reading about the Orthodox faith when everyone here started asking about it. Intrigued me and I wanted to visit a church but wasn't one near me. I went to the Greek festival and was able to sit in the church and hear about that group but the guy was monotone and my dh and kids begged to leave. I went to the chapel and spoke with a wonderful lady who answered a lot of my questions but told me to come to service late with kids b/c it's almost 2 hours long. So I kinda gave up on the idea of the church in my area working for our family.

 

But I long for more prayer time and something in my life. I printed out from one of the church sites a prayer order and things to read daily and will have to start there.

 

The fasting I haven't figured out yet. I understand it's different every day depending on the church calendar but as someone who's interested in trying it I would prefer a list of what I can eat over what I can't, lol.

 

Anyway, prayerfully searching for something more right now....sorta trying this on. I researched and walked away. But it keeps bringing me back.

 

Tess, I did a lot of stopping and starting along the way.....and honestly, I do some now. What I mean is that I LOVE being Orthodox, but sometimes it is still very foreign. I do the best I can, I know I have some things to confess because I am sure I could be trying harder, OTOH I know that if I push to hard I am going to burn myself and my family out. A couple weeks ago I was doing really good with my prayer rule, then dd's horse died and I just lost my footing a bit. I let myself just grieve for week (yes over a horse) and now this week things are getting back on track. Learning to enjoy the beauty of the journey is a concept I am just beginning to embrace.

 

If you ever want to chat please feel free to pm me (that goes for anyone else too!) I hit some theological bumps along the way that made me walk away entirely for a season, so I know what it is to just need to set it down for awhile. ((((hugs)))) to you as journey and explore. :D

 

 

Added: This is one of my favorite podcasts on fasting. I know I have shared it before, but wanted to link it again. I know it talks about fasting with children, but it was good for ME! http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/foodfaithfasting/fasting_with_the_child

[Laurie4b]

Just wanted to say hi and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

[HandmaidenofChrist]

HI everyone,

My friend just called me to let me know the Orthodox study bible in NKJ is on sale at Christian Book Distributors.com for $24.99 in leather bound version.

Perhaps someone else is interested in getting one.

:)

 

My heart is SO happy at how the Lord is providing the tools I need to continue my journey. My son and I will be joining our friends at the DL tomorrow morning for the Entrance of the Theotokos. Not quite sure what that is about yet, as I haven't had time to research it so it should be interesting. " )

 

Watching my grandbaby today, have a dinner tonight for my son's honor court for Boy Scouts, so I won't be here much.

 

Thank you again, ladies for helping me get the books Fr. Apostolos Hill recommended. I have to share with him tomorrow about the blessing of sharing his recommendations with me. :)

 

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

[Little Nyssa]

It took me about 7 years total. 4 years thinking about it from a distance and reading a little, then 3 years on and off in the parish. Then suddenly I knew it was time and I became Orthodox with no catechesis at all (this was in a village church in an Orthodox country). Then it took some time to warm up to the local church where I lived in the U.S. This is was many years ago now. :)

 

I wouldn't worry about understanding everything, Briva. Just let the services wash over you.

[Tess in the Burbs]

Thank you! ! I downloaded them all.

[milovany]

Corrected link:

The Incarnate God, here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Incarnate-God-Feasts-Christ/dp/0881411302

[OnTheBrink]

I'm still on the outside looking in, so once the social group gets going, is it ok for me to join? I learn so much from you ladies!

 

I listen to AF podcasts at work and learn a lot from them. I :001_wub: AF podcasts!

[milovany]

I think it's GOOD to learn the praxis from real live people in your parish. I mean of course it's okay to ask questions, and glean from the internet, but there's something about someone doing as Patty Joanna described, or about us getting up enough humility to ask ("What do I do? Can I do this as an inquirer?" etc. ), about being humbled by an Abbott when you cross yourself in front of him and ask for a blessing ("I'm not dead yet!" :laugh: ) (coughahemcough). I'm so thankful for the people who taught us (are still teaching us!).

 

Brink, of course you can join the group! I've always appreciated your loving and insightful posts on the boards.

[Little Nyssa]

OTB you are welcome too!

[Little Nyssa]

Hi again, does anyone know what happened to Orthodox Christian Craft supply? It seems to be defunct. I was hoping to get some Xmas things there-- does anybody else know where to get similar kinds of things? thanks!!!

[Alenee]

Hi again, does anyone know what happened to Orthodox Christian Craft supply? It seems to be defunct. I was hoping to get some Xmas things there-- does anybody else know where to get similar kinds of things? thanks!!!

 

This question came up a few months back on the social group and it was found to be closed for a time. I don't remember the specific details but that it is for sure closed.

[Briva]

On our way to 2nites Nativity Paraclesis (whatever that is) I told dh is what something related to advent. Picking up his disciple (a non-practicing ex-RC).

 

I can relate to what Patty Joanna said: I had my own dragons to slay--and some of them were very much related to fear, because I had come to a point where I knew that if Orthodoxy wasn't true, nothing was, and that scared the tar out of me.

 

I believe I am afraid to just let go, and let God. I want to know what it is all about before allowing myself to be taking in. Just very weary, I am getting to old for this. I feel like if I let go, there is no turning back because there is nothing to turn back to but emptiness. God wouldnt leave us empty, would He?

[JenniferB]

I feel like if I let go, there is no turning back because there is nothing to turn back to but emptiness.

 

[Alenee]

I believe I am afraid to just let go, and let God. I want to know what it is all about before allowing myself to be taking in. Just very weary, I am getting to old for this. I feel like if I let go, there is no turning back because there is nothing to turn back to but emptiness. God wouldnt leave us empty, would He?

 

((((Briva)))) What are you holding on to? Because it sounds to me, by what you said, that what you have isn't enough either. No, God will never leave us, nor forsake us. In fact, Scripture says that Jesus founded His Church and the gates of Hades would NOT overcome it. He's given us the Church and her traditions for our healing. As I said to my husband, "Take my hand and walk with me," I say to you. Take God's hand! Praying for you every day.

[Alenee]

http://vimeo.com/7619378

 

Thank you, Jennifer! Dh's friend calls me a red pill person and I had no idea what that was about, other than it had come from a movie. This is definitely me and thanks be to God, He's held on to me no matter what and has shown me where to go for my healing!

[milovany]

On our way to 2nites Nativity Paraclesis (whatever that is) I told dh is what something related to advent. Picking up his disciple (a non-practicing ex-RC).

 

I can relate to what Patty Joanna said: I had my own dragons to slay--and some of them were very much related to fear, because I had come to a point where I knew that if Orthodoxy wasn't true, nothing was, and that scared the tar out of me.

 

I believe I am afraid to just let go, and let God. I want to know what it is all about before allowing myself to be taking in. Just very weary, I am getting to old for this. I feel like if I let go, there is no turning back because there is nothing to turn back to but emptiness. God wouldnt leave us empty, would He?

 

Paraclesis is a beautiful prayer service, mostly sung. Enjoy.

 

Briva, I always hesitate to say this because some can read it wrong. But I felt the same way you describe, if this is what you mean: If Orthodoxy isn't it, there's nothing else and I'm done with Christianity. That's scary -- but in some way, it's also wonderful and beautiful; it's kinda the way it should be, you know? It's the way it was way back after Pentecost and for hundreds of years. There was a church. You were a part of it, or seeking to be a part of it, or you weren't a part of it. Today's reality is far different. Having a variety of churches to choose from based on preference and understanding is foreign (we're not the foreign ones after all, LOL).

 

[Note to anyone reading this who is offended by this idea: Please PM me so I can try and explain differently. I'm not trying to offend, just trying to give the perspective of the ancient church, who's fault it is not that there are divisions and schisms in Christianity.]

 

No, God would not leave us empty, and Briva, you will be amazed and thankful and filled with Orthodoxy. I promise. I saw our priest in the grocery store today (he didn't see me), and seriously I wanted to go up to him and get his blessing, and say "Thank you!" with tears in my eyes for the 10,892nd time (largely because of the festal Divine Liturgy this morning, this time). It's so peaceful to know we're done with trying to find pure, original, the-way-it-should-be Christianity. Now we can just worship God, become more like him, and receive Him.

 

Hugs to you, my friend.

[Kathryn]

((((Briva))))

 

Two questions just for random conversation:

 

Who all breaks fast for Thanksgiving?

 

What jurisdiction are you?

[Little Nyssa]

We break the fast for Thanksgiving, plus leftovers! but that it our family's choice, we haven't been taught either way is better than the other.

Greek archdiocese

[milovany]

Two questions just for random conversation:

 

Who all breaks fast for Thanksgiving?

 

What jurisdiction are you?

 

We have in the past, but are probably getting away from it. We're Antiochian. If we break a fast (i.e., if we don't fast on Wednesday or Friday, or have something after midnight before a liturgy, or don't fast during Lent, etc.), we're advised not to receive the Eucharist that week. Because of that, it's becoming something we really don't want to give up just so we can eat some turkey or fish. IF we're with non-fasting family, we're more likely to consider breaking the fast, though, of course. We'd probably do something like enjoy the foods before us, but not have meat (or too much meat) or not have dessert. Some sort of ascesis/moderation. I'm kind of sad about tomorrow -- it looks like we'll just be hanging out with ourselves; which we do every day, so it's not that celebratory. We might go out for dinner just to do something fun! :-) If we do, we'll go to Mexican, get sides of beans, rice and tortillas and make burritos ("no queso, por favor"), LOL.

 

I will admit, I wish our bishop was more lenient with this. It's our nation's one and only "local" feast day, and it's one with a Christian foundation to boot. There are some days during the fasts that different populations in different areas can have, say, fish on a "local feast day," so I don't understand why that's not the case with Thanksgiving in America. (Someone explain if you get it.). But it is what it is, and there are more important fish to fry (pun intended).

[Caitilin]

We're breaking the fast for thanksgiving and the visit surrounding it because it'll be with MIL, and *another fast* is just too much to lay on her. She already thinks our religious ideas are pretty out there, lol.

 

BTW, dc and I will be visiting a WR parish this Sunday--I am so excited, because it'll be just like the beautiful Anglican liturgy we gave up! :D

[Juniper]

We are Antiochian and have been reassured that it is fine to celebrate Thanksgiving. :D The only advice our Priest slyly passed on was a saying from his spiritual father. "Celebrating is fine, but remember Gluttony is a sin no matter the day." ;) .........I am sure I will have something to confess! :D

[PrincessMommy]

OCA - we break the fast to celebrate Thanksgiving. We'll be with family anyway, so it wouldn't matter. This year I'm going to be even more relaxed than usual. Our college boys are home and one's not Orthodox - and it's his b-day on Sunday. He asked for mom's pot roast. I'm worrying less about food this weekend and working on my attitude.

[JenniferB]

We will be celebrating Thanksgiving just like we always have, but with a bit more of the "Thanks" and more moderation involved this year. I've been told it's OK, but to be mindful of moderation. We are OCA.

[Alenee]

Milovany, I read on OrthodoxChristianity.net that your Bishop does give a blessing to break the fast for Thanksgiving. Could it be that it's your priest, not your Bishop?

 

To the question, we are in the OCA and have a fast-free Thursday of Thanksgiving and Friday as well.

[JenniferB]

Alenee, is that a blessing from Bishop Benjamin for fast free Thursdsy and Friday? We are under Bishop Benjamin.

[Juniper]

Milovany, I read on OrthodoxChristianity.net that your Bishop does give a blessing to break the fast for Thanksgiving. Could it be that it's your priest, not your Bishop?

 

To the question, we are in the OCA and have a fast-free Thursday of Thanksgiving and Friday as well.

 

 

Alenee, I was told the same thing, but Milovany and I have different Bishops. This year I thought it came from Metropolitan Phillip, so I am a little confused. Can you link to where that was discussed?

[Briva]

That ex-RC fellow that dh has been discipling joined us for the Paraclesis 2nite and dh was talking about DL on Sunday...and the fellow said he'd love to join us. Its been 10yrs since he has been in any church. So this is huge. Please pray for this fellow.

 

And the service was beautiful.

[Alenee]

Alenee, is that a blessing from Bishop Benjamin for fast free Thursdsy and Friday? We are under Bishop Benjamin.

 

Forgive me. The information I had was old. It appears Bishop Joseph has it set w/o a break. He is Locum Tenens for the Diocese of Eagle River and the Northwest as well as Auxillary for Los Angeles and the West. Here is the link to his message and their fasting calendar: http://www.antiochianladiocese.org/

 

It does not say anything about Thanksgiving being any different than another day on the calendar. Again, please forgive me.

[JenniferB]

To the question, we are in the OCA and have a fast-free Thursday of Thanksgiving and Friday as well.

[JenniferB]

I mean to ask about the OCA archdiocese if the west. You said fast free on Thu & Fri for the OCA, and I mean to ask if this is Bishop Benjamin's blessing because I'm in the OCA archdiocese of the west under Bishop Benjamin.

[HappyCrazyMama]

Being Western-Rite our Advent fast doesn't begin until December. I can't deny that due to Thanksgiving I'm not sorry about that. :) I am still worried about the upcoming (for me) Advent Fast though, the rule for fasting in the WR is abstience from flesh meat and one meal a day, not before noon and 1/4 of meal in the evening.(You can switch your 1/4 meal and full meal but not before noon) Of course kids only practice abstinence. My priest hasn't gotten back to me yet for what I should do and I say this to my shame but I do hope I get a lighter rule for my first extended fasting period. :ohmy:

[Jennay]

Nice to hear from both Leila and jrn. We have another WR parishioner here too. I can't remember her screen name but we know each other IRL.

 

It's me :)

[Alenee]

I mean to ask about the OCA archdiocese if the west. You said fast free on Thu & Fri for the OCA, and I mean to ask if this is Bishop Benjamin's blessing because I'm in the OCA archdiocese of the west under Bishop Benjamin.

 

I don't know...it's on our parish calendar.

[Alenee]

I asked OtherJohn if we're getting the Social Groups back and he said he'd begin working on the conversion after the holiday.

[myfatherslily]

They do not break the fast at my OCA parish. I, however, am only attempting to fast from meat on Wednesdays and Fridays right now (I'm slow with this fasting thing).

[milovany]

Woo-hoo!! Just found out we have a blessing to have fish today. <big smile> We already have Lenten fare planned for today's bigger meal (although we picked up some smoked salmon for lunch), but it's good to know for the future because we can take salmon to any meals we'll be a part of.

[Briva]

I am a lifelong Christian, an Orthodox inquirer, but I have dealt with that question. I grew up in 'fear' of God in the wrong way. We are to fear and respect Him because He is the Almighty, creator of everything. I have learned through years of intense Bible study the attributes of God the Father, and He is merciful, patience and loving. You may want to check this resource - Bible Study Fellowship International. I spent over 6yrs straight attending their yearround, weekly Bible study. I see it this way, in the times of Noah things must have been so horrible for Noah and his family. I pray I never have to experience the same decay in all of society, although at my age I have seen a lot of it. Much like a petulant child at first hates his parents for chastising them for misbehaving...then growing up and seeing it was better to have grown up being disciplined. If God hadnt wiped out the earth, so to say, would you want to live in that kind of moral decay. We only have a taste of what that is like. The only just man in Noah's time was Noah and God spared him and his family. God gave us a fresh start, with a promise not to wipe us out again. At times I wish He'd zap a few miscreants now and then but I like that He is in control and not me. I have found a lot of people who criticize God dont really know the Bible and are like misbehaved children, they dont really know their Father, and it is a shame.

[butterflymommy]

I watched "Ostrov" / "The Island" last night and found it spell binding.... have you ladies all seen it? (This refers to the 2006 russian film, not the 2005 american thriller). There is an amazing scene a minute or two into the film where the protagonist is walking and reciting the Jesus prayer, which I assume is a nod to "The Way of the Pilgrim." It's available on netflix streaming.

 

Also I read that the actor playing the protagonist is an Orthodox convert.

[Juniper]

Thank you for your response! I do get that, but I can't help thinking about the little babies and small children that would have been killed as well. Were they evil? How could that be?

 

That's why I lean toward the belief that these are not literal stories. I would very much like to know the Orthodox view on this.

 

I am a little confused by the question. Are we just talking about the major super natural events...or the entire OT with it's various wars and such? If we are just talking about the supernatural accounts in the Genesis story you will find that Orthodoxy allows for quite a bit of diversity on this. I find it incredibly beautiful that both in this group and when I am in my own church, I can be sitting, chatting, sharing a meal with someone who is on the total opposite spectrum from me. Within EO, our path to salvation, depth of relationship, the feet to our faith and loving our neighbor is in no way connected to whether were are literal or allegorical. You will find Priests and Bishops that fall on both sides of this issue.

[JenniferB]

I watched "Ostrov" / "The Island" last night and found it spell binding.... have you ladies all seen it? (This refers to the 2006 russian film, not the 2005 american thriller). There is an amazing scene a minute or two into the film where the protagonist is walking and reciting the Jesus prayer, which I assume is a nod to "The Way of the Pilgrim." It's available on netflix streaming.

 

Also I read that the actor playing the protagonist is an Orthodox convert.

 

Love this movie. You made me want to watch it again.

[JenniferB]

Can I ask you ladies a question? The Tower of Babel thread got me thinking. What is the Orthodox view on the literal versus allegorical interpretation of the Old Testament? I'm thinking of stories like Noah and the flood. In these stories God appears to be vengeful and merciless, killing men, women, children, animals, etc. If they are literally true then how can God be good? It's questions like this that cause me the most difficulty.

 

Someone told me to look to the OT to teach you about Christ. I think it was my priest who said this. The OT is full of stories (maybe real events, maybe real events embellished for emphasis) that point us to Christ and how we can get into communion with him, which is what was lost in the story of Adam and Eve when they ate the fruit of knowledge. Noah and the ark teaches us about the Church. The tower of Bable teaches us about the coming of the Holy Spirit. The burning bush teaches us about the Theotokos (the bush that does not burn). Jacob's ladder, the youths in the fiery furnace, Gideon's fleece, and on and on, these stories all have spiritual knowledge woven into them. Maybe this spiritual knowledge is meant to replace what was lost and/or exchanged for the knowledge represented by the tree in the garden? In Orthodoxy, communion with the triune God is of the most importance, not whether or not those stories are literal, historical or factual. The hymnography in conjunction with the church calendar cycle of fastst and feasts of the Orthodox Church teaches about these OT fulfilments. The spiritual depth to these stories is seemingly endless and beautiful. Don't let a modern, western view of the "OT God," taint the beauty of our true God who is incarnate in Jesus Christ. You don't see a wrathful Jesus in the Gospels. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.

[Alenee]

Thank you for your response! I do get that, but I can't help thinking about the little babies and small children that would have been killed as well. Were they evil? How could that be?

 

That's why I lean toward the belief that these are not literal stories. I would very much like to know the Orthodox view on this.

 

I had similar questions for my priest. His response was, "Was it wrath or was it mercy? If all that evil was happening, wouldn't it be better to put an end to it rather than allow it to keep going? That's mercy." Totally changed my perspective.

[PrincessMommy]

I think there are Church Father's who look at them literally and some who look at them allegorically... and some (most?) who do both.

 

Here is an excellent article on the "Wrath of God" by Fr. Stephen Freeman:

 

http://glory2godforallthings.com/2009/01/15/gods-wrath/

 

For various reasons, some people are determined to make the economy of salvation to be linked with the Wrath of God. If you do not repent, then God will do thus and such… I have always considered this representation of the gospel to be coercive and contrary to the love of God. I have heard convoluted ways in which this wrath is interpreted to be “the loving thing to do†but I do not buy it.

 

and

 

But it is essential in our witness to the God Who Is, to always relate the fact that He is a loving God, not willing that any should perish. He is not against us but for us. This is utterly essential to the correct proclamation of the Gospel. Those who insist on exalting His wrath as a threat, inevitably misportray God and use anthropormorphism as a substitute for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

reading the discussions in the comment box is well worth you time too.

 

He also did a podcast, but I find his voice annoying :)