AngieW in Texas Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 My oldest is in danger of losing her scholarship because she is terrified to ask her teachers for help. That is the whole point of office hours. Professors WANT students to come to their office hours for help BEFORE they are drowning. I have this problem with some of the students in the classes I teach in my home. I have told them and even begged them to please ask me for help when they can't figure out the problems, but some of them just won't. They'll turn in an assignment with "I couldn't figure this one out" written for some of the problems. Of course, I have other students who will always ask when they don't get the same answer as the answer key in the back of the textbook. These students tend to do well because they get help when they first start getting lost rather than going around in circles and getting everything confused. The good students aren't necessarily the students who just know everything. Often, they are the students who realize that they don't understand and then ASK for help. I'm posting this on the high school board because it is easier to get your kids to ask for help while they are still living at home than when they are gone to college. I should have pushed my dd to go to her teachers' office hours for help more rather than helping her myself. I'm not able to help her with the things she is having problems with at school and she never got comfortable with asking her teachers for help. My middle dd has always been comfortable with this and has NO problems with emailing her teachers for help or going to their office hours to ask for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm posting this on the high school board because it is easier to get your kids to ask for help while they are still living at home than when they are gone to college. I should have pushed my dd to go to her teachers' office hours for help more rather than helping her myself. I'm not able to help her with the things she is having problems with at school and she never got comfortable with asking her teachers for help. I was not good at going to the teacher's office for help. I was very good at emailing my teachers for help and clarification though. I appreciate it when teachers put their email as well as contact number on their first lecture/class. We are able to get any teacher's email address from the staff directory though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGHEALTHYMOM Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I was very grateful for Prof's who encouraged questions and had office hours... this was before cell phone, email boom! Also, if a Prof is not good at communicating or seems not to answer questions very willingly * whatever the reason, a tutor or strong classmate may be the best bet to improve studying. Boundaries are also necessary when being asked to tutor for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 :grouphug:Angie, thanks so much for posting this and I am so sorry about your dd. She is very similar to my dd who would never ask questions in high school for fear of looking "dumb." Every time we have one of the "What skills does your 8th grader need?" threads, I put the ability to ask questions near the top. It seems like a small thing to many of us, but my experience has been that there are a lot of kids out there that fall into this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes. I have many students who are struggling. I write on their papers 'Come and see me in office hours so we can get you back on track.' They don't come. They just keep turning in undone homework and failing the quizzes. Meanwhile, I sit in my office hours and grade ... (or do crosswords). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The good students aren't necessarily the students who just know everything. Often, they are the students who realize that they don't understand and then ASK for help. This has been my experience as well. I hope your daughter can truly realize this soon enough to keep her scholarship. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisIsTheDay Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I recently read this book and made it required reading for my dd. She's in her first semester of dual enrollment classes at the local CC. It's been very, very helpful, and dd has used tips from the book already. The only book that's had more of an impact for dd's 12th grade has been a college admissions and transcript book. I highly recommend it. Say This, Not That to Your Professor by Ellen Bremen. She also has a FB page that's pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes. I have many students who are struggling. I write on their papers 'Come and see me in office hours so we can get you back on track.' They don't come. They just keep turning in undone homework and failing the quizzes. Meanwhile, I sit in my office hours and grade ... (or do crosswords). That has been my experience as well. I run an open learning center in a classroom, where students can just drop in and get help with their homework. They can work in groups on the blackboard and get help from me or a student tutor. Most students who attend are B and C students to whom this may make the difference of a grade. The ones in danger of failing never attend. Please tell your kids that professors like to see students succeed. I have not met a colleague who would not much prefer to assist a student before it is to late, rather than giving a D or F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Almost every semester I have 1-2 students that I tutor before and/or after class. For some, it is the second or third time they've taken it, and it is the last class before they apply to the nursing program. That type of student usually does fine. In contrast, I have one now who has completed only about 5% of the work assigned so far. They come almost every week, and constantly email me about lost passwords, not having access to a computer, the wrong software, misplaced books, etc. etc. In other words, all things that I cannot help with anyway. The latest twist was that they got the flu and missed the midterm three weeks ago, but I don't offer makeups for the midterm unless there is a doctor's excuse where the dates match. They keep saying that they have to go back to the doctor, but so far nothing. And the midterm and the final are the only parts that I offer a makeup for. I don't do that for homework. Sad, but there it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I rarely read this board, but this caught my eye. It might also be they don't know what questions to ask. Sounds silly, but sometimes that would happen to me. I am the type to question everything to the point of annoying the teacher (nah not really), but sometimes I don't know what to ask! You are raising a very good point. In order for the professor to be able to actually help, the student needs to come to office hour or help center prepared. If a student shows up who tells me "the whole chapter makes no sense", there is not much I can do; I will tell him to go read the text and take notes and review the lecture notes and come back with specific questions. OTOH, if a student comes and asks "On this example, I can not figure out how they get from this step to the next" or "when you discussed this problem in lecture, I did not understand the reasoning; could you explain this again" or "I tried to set up the homework problem; could you look at my setup and tell me if I am on the right track" - these are specific questions where an instructor can assist. This is also one of the reasons why students NEED to get in the habit of doing the assigned reading before class, because then they know what they do not know and can ask questions in class. But the student who is too lazy to read or take notes and expects the professor to reiterate the whole lecture during office hours will be disappointed, because that is neither possible, not appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) You can encourage them in this direction. This is one area where I think dual-enrollment at the CC can really help. Dd is required by me to make periodic visits to her profs. Even when she thinks she is fine. Required. By me. No discussion. Required. :001_smile: Before class begins each semester, she contacts each prof via email to introduce herself and set up a time when she can come by and pick up the syllabus so she can prepare for the first class. Before the first paper is due in an English or history class: she is required by me to finish it early. Then she must take it to office hours to get feedback on how she can make it better. Now she does this for nearly every paper on her own. She enjoys the discussion. We know that they learn by writing the papers; she gets a better education when she discusses her papers with the profs. She hardly ever turns in a paper on time; nearly every time she submits her final draft early. Before the first lab report is due in a science class: Same thing. Done early. Go to office hours. Is this what you are looking for? How can I make it better? What am I missing here? After the first few homework assignment are completed in the math class: Same thing. Attend office hours. Can you scan my homework? I'm getting the right answers, but I want to make sure that I'm doing the problems correctly as far as showing enough work and showing it correctly. Before the first math test? These are the problems I got wrong on the homework. I think I understand what I did wrong. Can you give me some similar problems, so I can be sure? Our CC has over 15,000 students. Every single one of my dd's teachers know her name. My dd knows that class attendance is mandatory. Attendance at office hours is just one more requirement for her. If kids can't see why it matters, I would just find a way to push their buttons to help them see. ;) Find ways to get them in the loop. College graduation rates are not that great for the "average" student. We need to help our kids understand that above average is really their only option. I know that our family can't afford an "average" experience. ;) Peace, Janice P.S. Eventually they learn to see the advantages of cultivating a relationship with their profs. That's when I'm done. Woo-hoo! Edited October 31, 2012 by Janice in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Two things may contribute to a student's willingness to ask questions -- 1) Personality. Some people are just more willing to stick their necks out and potentially make a fool of themselves. Speaking out is hard for some people. 2) Life before college. We as homeschoolers can help our kids learn to ask questions. * When our kids say, "This makes no sense," do we reteach the material from the beginning or do we say, "Okay, I'm listening. WHAT doesn't make sense?" * Do we encourage our kids to "think out loud" occasionally so they get in the habit of verbalizing their train of thought? *And do we try to live out in our homes the maxim, "There is no such thing as a stupid question," or do we sometimes give our kids a hard time for asking a seemingly silly question? If we make them self-conscious about asking questions, that may make them very reluctant to ask professors for help. BTW, a dear friend of mine teaches organic chemistry, the killer class for pre-meds. She always wonders why every semester the top students visit her office frequently, seeking clarification on the material, and the students who are flunking stay away from office hours completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) .... Edited November 5, 2012 by ksva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I rarely read this board, but this caught my eye. It might also be they don't know what questions to ask. I'm pretty sure that the OP's dd is an Aspie. If I am remembering that correctly, your pt is even more probable. Our Aspie has the uncanny ability of memorizing a vast amt of info in a very short time period. However, if assignments are abstract, he is thrown into a tail spin. He tried talking to a teacher his first yr at our local CC and no matter how he asked the question, her answers were not ones that made the assignment more understandable for him. He ended up so stressed out over that one assignment that it threw him into a meltdown of epic proportions. We actually pd for him to have an on campus advocate so that he could be walked through the process of approaching professors, learning how to seek the help he needed, how to articulate his needs, etc.....basically general self-advocacy via a trained individual. There are many colleges that have programs set up specifically for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Both of my older girls are Aspie. My oldest is also OCD, which definitely makes things a lot worst. It's part of why I have had a really hard time convincing her that it's ok to ask her teachers for help. My middle dd is Aspie, but has no problems at all asking her teachers for help. She will immediately hop onto email to ask her teacher for clarification and will go to office hours for help if she needs it. The students in my classes have not been Aspie though. Some just have a really hard time bringing themselves to ask for help. Others will email me as soon as they realize that they got a different answer from the answer key or when they dont have a clue about how to start. Usually they are very very close to the right process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Regarding the wish to avoid bothering or annoying the instructor. I've learned to tell my students that the best way to let the professor know she is serious about her education, is to (a) sit up front so it's easier to comment and (b) be sure the instructor knows your name by taking a question or comment to office hours as soon as possible. They are called office hours because they are a required part of the job. The instructor is there anyway...better to give him something to do. Look, most people go through a Master's or PHD program because they love their subject and are anxious to share their passion with people who love it they way they do. I tell them that as a teaching mom, I find it boring when they already know what I had planned to teach for the day and frustrating when they obviously don't get it but insist they do. I love it, however, when I can help them get over a tough bump and see the light go on in their eyes. That's what makes my work worthwhile. Community college or University instructors are no different. Helping a student find understanding is one of the most fulfilling aspects of the job. It seems cruel to deprive someone of job satisfaction, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 You can encourage them in this direction. This is one area where I think dual-enrollment at the CC can really help. Dd is required by me to make periodic visits to her profs. Even when she thinks she is fine. Required. By me. No discussion. Required. :001_smile:.... P.S. Eventually they learn to see the advantages of cultivating a relationship with their profs. That's when I'm done. Woo-hoo! Yes. Completely :iagree: with the above. My current child is going to be tougher to convince as she starts her first CC semester in January. I've already begun working on her. I'm filing away the suggestions in your post for the first few weeks, because I can tell it's going to take more than just a mention or two on my part this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 You can encourage them in this direction. Wow, Janice. I love this idea in theory. Did your ds do this as well? It sounds to me like you are not encouraging your dd to do this, you are requiring her to do it. I don't think that wild horses could get my ds to do any of this. Of course, he doesn't need any help anyway because he already knows it all....:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaTotaler Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 AngieW, thanks for posting this info. This is so helpful for those of us who are beginning the High School years. I have discussed this with ds but having him read your post and the responses have reinforced why I believe this is an impt skill. My oldest is in danger of losing her scholarship because she is terrified to ask her teachers for help. That is the whole point of office hours. Professors WANT students to come to their office hours for help BEFORE they are drowning. I have this problem with some of the students in the classes I teach in my home. I have told them and even begged them to please ask me for help when they can't figure out the problems, but some of them just won't. They'll turn in an assignment with "I couldn't figure this one out" written for some of the problems. Of course, I have other students who will always ask when they don't get the same answer as the answer key in the back of the textbook. These students tend to do well because they get help when they first start getting lost rather than going around in circles and getting everything confused. The good students aren't necessarily the students who just know everything. Often, they are the students who realize that they don't understand and then ASK for help. I'm posting this on the high school board because it is easier to get your kids to ask for help while they are still living at home than when they are gone to college. I should have pushed my dd to go to her teachers' office hours for help more rather than helping her myself. I'm not able to help her with the things she is having problems with at school and she never got comfortable with asking her teachers for help. My middle dd has always been comfortable with this and has NO problems with emailing her teachers for help or going to their office hours to ask for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 http://www.collegeparents.org/members/resources/articles/why-your-college-student-might-not-ask-help This is a good article (apologies, I may have already posted this recently). For dual enrollment students I suggest that before the class you make it an expectation or requirement that your student go in and introduce themselves to their professors. The other thing many students don't understand is that office hours aren't just for struggling students. Students who know their professors are the ones who get offered the good opportunities - for research projects, internships, meeting guest speakers, scholarships, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 The other thing many students don't understand is that office hours aren't just for struggling students. Students who know their professors are the ones who get offered the good opportunities - for research projects, internships, meeting guest speakers, scholarships, etc. :iagree: It is also about networking. It is also useful for when you need a letter of recommendation from two lecturers for jobs, postgrad scholarships and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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