lincap Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Now that we are into October I am noticing that my first grader (boy almost 7 yrs old) really really still prefers to play all day long. I also have a 4.5 yr old boy and 2.5 yr old boy. I truly value play and if the weather is nice, I really do like to see my boys outside in the fall weather. However, I feel like we are playing almost too much. We are working through getting a good rhythm. I try to at least do some RSM-B and Phonics (Horizon 1st OR LOE) each day. Usually right after breakfast. We almost never get to Real Science for Kids, Story of the World, or anything else.. maybe once a week if I am lucky. A typical day: Breakfast Play RSM Phonics Snack Outside/inside play (if raining hard) Lunch Outside/inside play (if raining hard) Supper Outside/soccer practice/errands/art Bath Reading (to his brothers and then independent for about 2 hrs.) Bed On bad bad weather days where it is raining hard sometimes I can engage him science or social studies instead of playing with his brothers. I guess I can say we do a lot of PE!!!!! I feel it is so important for boys to climb trees and run and play. And since he is such a fantastic reader, I let a lot slide. At what point would you actively cut outside time for school work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have 6 and 4 year olds.... and we play quite a bit at our house. I think it'll gradually taper off, especially as we add more subjects. This year we are just doing phonics and math consistently. 1-2 days a week we read through a science lesson and we do read-alouds through the Little House book we're on. Next year we're adding spelling and formal history, so that'll obviously cut into play time. Also, my DD does not yet read independently, so *hopefully* next year she will and that'll take up some of her day. I think the transition (less play, more work) will happen naturally as they age. Play is important; I say let them do it while they can! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My general rule of thumb is approx 1 hr of school wk/day for each grade level. So 1st grade is ~1-1 1/2 hrs/ day. My current 1st grader is doing the following: math phonics rules reading aloud to me copywork (1 lesson from Draw Write Now/day) my reading to her from various bks (everything from science to just stories) FWIW, I do everything w/her in a single sitting so that she has the rest of the day to play w/o having to rein her back in from playing in order to do school (that is an approach that has never worked here.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Do you read to him at night as he falls asleep? If you do that would be when I would read SOTW or Science at bedtime and have a project set up and ready to go the next morning after breakfast and before playtime. It is more work for you the night before but it might be easier for him to see what he gets to do and become excited about it. As much as my DS loves to play outside he also loves hands on projects and often his projects become part of his play. My DS prefers it if everything is set up and ready for him to tackle. He is just now at a point where I can tell him we are going to do something and he is able to wait while I set it up. Before if it wasn't ready to go it was very hard for him to understand what was going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Now that we are into October I am noticing that my first grader (boy almost 7 yrs old) really really still prefers to play all day long. I also have a 4.5 yr old boy and 2.5 yr old boy. I truly value play and if the weather is nice, I really do like to see my boys outside in the fall weather. However, I feel like we are playing almost too much. We are working through getting a good rhythm. I try to at least do some RSM-B and Phonics (Horizon 1st OR LOE) each day. Usually right after breakfast. We almost never get to Real Science for Kids, Story of the World, or anything else.. maybe once a week if I am lucky. A typical day: Breakfast Play RSM Phonics Snack Outside/inside play (if raining hard) Lunch Outside/inside play (if raining hard) Supper Outside/soccer practice/errands/art Bath Reading (to his brothers and then independent for about 2 hrs.) Bed On bad bad weather days where it is raining hard sometimes I can engage him science or social studies instead of playing with his brothers. I guess I can say we do a lot of PE!!!!! I feel it is so important for boys to climb trees and run and play. And since he is such a fantastic reader, I let a lot slide. At what point would you actively cut outside time for school work? My two cents, as someone who has been there. The problem is not playing too much. The potential problem is that if you are planning, scheduling these things, he knows he is "getting his way" choosing to get out of schoolwork. If you want to do the bare minimum and philosophically believe he should play the vast majority of his day, say those words to him and let it be so. However, if you are saying things like, "DS, we really need to do x, y, and z" and he zooms out to play and you fall into a pattern of just not getting to it... Well, he will learn from that and it is very likely that when you really do buckle down, he will be in a pattern of disregard and you may have a battle on your hands. And, the thing is, it won't be his fault. My best advice is to decide what is really important to you and to make it happen. If you want to go unschooly in the early years, say it loud and make it so! If you feel that more official school-time and seatwork needs to get done, say it loud and make it so...and make it cheerful, fun, active work because your DS sounds like a fun little guy. :001_smile: You can do science as nature walks/nature study. You can do wonderful, adventurous picture book read-alouds for history. If he doesn't want to sit still for SOTW yet, no big deal but there are wonderful picture books for ancients. You can absolutely make school something he craves doing every day. It doesn't have to take more than an hour or two, and it can be fun and active too. It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) My general rule of thumb is approx 1 hr of school wk/day for each grade level. So 1st grade is ~1-1 1/2 hrs/ day. My current 1st grader is doing the following: math phonics rules reading aloud to me copywork (1 lesson from Draw Write Now/day) my reading to her from various bks (everything from science to just stories) FWIW, I do everything w/her in a single sitting so that she has the rest of the day to play w/o having to rein her back in from playing in order to do school (that is an approach that has never worked here.) :iagree: Play is good. I also like to do everything in 1 sitting here as well with my k'er- she is about 45 min and will be about 1.5 hrs next year I'd guess. Ds 2nd has 2 sessions- 1 hr LA and 1 hr Math. The only thing I see missing from your list above is some kind of writing. We do read-alouds at bed time or through out the day, other things as they come up. Edited October 20, 2012 by soror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissKNG Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My girls are up for 16 plus hours a day and are completely active the.entire.time. So getting in "enough" play is not a worry at all. My 1st grader works on school in the morning (when both girls participate) and finishes at night after my small girl goes to bed (on the core subjects like math and English). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I didn't do breaks, even in first grade. I found it was too difficult to regroup afterwards. I decided how much time I wanted to do school, and then I would alternate between a hard task and an easy or enjoyable task. We would start at the desk doing things like math, handwriting, and whatever else one would do at a desk, and then migrated to the couch where we did a bunch of read alouds, including at that age having them read aloud to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pageatatime Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'll be in the minority here, but I feel at that age, play is the MOST important part of a 7yo's day.:tongue_smilie: If it were me, the routine would be something like this- Breakfast RSM Phonics Play Lunch Read aloud-SOTW or whatever play for the rest of the day IOW-I would lump the school together, and even consider read alouds/SOTW during lunch. I'd either skip the science or if he likes it a lot, consider having one day a week where you do science for an hour. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) And since he is such a fantastic reader, I let a lot slide. I wanted to respond directly to this as well. This was my DS, an early, natural reader. He was/is very active. I also "let a lot slide" in his early years. I kept thinking what's the harm because he was already so far ahead of the game. I thought I was doing him a favor by pushing school to the back burner in the name of play but, in reality, I inadvertently taught him that school wasn't important--even something to be dreaded, something that kept you away from play. If I could go back and do it again, I still wouldn't do any "sit still and knuckle-down" schoolwork with him, but I would have made a more serious effort to draw him into school as play. Instead, I had to lure him back in and cure his natural skepticism. :tongue_smilie: Anyway, just as kids learn from play, school can be play. Edited October 20, 2012 by Alte Veste Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My two cents, as someone who has been there. The problem is not playing too much. The potential problem is that if you are planning, scheduling these things, he knows he is "getting his way" choosing to get out of schoolwork. If you want to do the bare minimum and philosophically believe he should play the vast majority of his day, say those words to him and let it be so. However, if you are saying things like, "DS, we really need to do x, y, and z" and he zooms out to play and you fall into a pattern of just not getting to it... Well, he will learn from that and it is very likely that when you really do buckle down, he will be in a pattern of disregard and you may have a battle on your hands. And, the thing is, it won't be his fault. My best advice is to decide what is really important to you and to make it happen. If you want to go unschooly in the early years, say it loud and make it so! If you feel that more official school-time and seatwork needs to get done, say it loud and make it so...and make it cheerful, fun, active work because your DS sounds like a fun little guy. :001_smile: You can do science as nature walks/nature study. You can do wonderful, adventurous picture book read-alouds for history. If he doesn't want to sit still for SOTW yet, no big deal but there are wonderful picture books for ancients. You can absolutely make school something he craves doing every day. It doesn't have to take more than an hour or two, and it can be fun and active too. It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. I have experienced this problem (this and your other post too) - an uncertainty and resulting insecurity that gave opportunity for attitude and behavior problems that need not have been problems at all. We're you this insightful a year ago? Because I really needed this spotlight back then! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have always had trouble reining in my kids to do school work after I've let them go play. So I try to start school immediately after breakfast (or if I don't, we do housework together or yardwork - something physical that is NOT play). Then I try to get everything done quickly and let him go for the day. My middle son is K right now, but I don't see it changing much for 1st grade. We do phonics/math/handwriting in one sitting if possible, and then he gets to go play. Later, we have a read-aloud time. It is better if I get the read-aloud time in early, because sometimes it gets skipped. Hence why I just did an entire week of Sonlight P4/5 yesterday after having skipped it for 2 weeks. :lol: That reading only took like 30 minutes, so it wasn't a big deal. And no, we don't have to finish by a certain time, so it doesn't matter. I just have two cores going and want them on the same week number, and I didn't need to hold DS1 back because I was lazy reading to DS2. :tongue_smilie: (and I do read to them at bedtime also, plus picture books he brings me, so it's not like I was ignoring reading aloud to him at all ;) ) I find that alternating hard subjects with easy and writing with non-writing really helps. That way, I can keep his attention. Also, after meals is a great time to do stuff, so maybe do breakfast, then phonics/math/handwriting, then play. After lunch, do read-alouds (science/history), then go play. My 3rd grader has a lot on his plate compared to my K'er, but he still has lots of play time outside, and I agree - I want my boys climbing and running around and imagining. The other day, we had watched Tron Legacy, and they ran outside immediately to play Tron - pelting each other with frisbees. :lol: How could I ruin that with math or grammar? :D But the key is, we'd done that stuff earlier in the day and now had time to play around. We get a lot done around here, much to my surprise. Sometimes I feel like I haven't done much school, but then I look at the list and see what we've done, and I realize we really did do a lot - it just didn't take long. SOTW can be done 3 days a week and RS4K 2 days, just reading the books aloud and adding in some other library books where possible. If you have an advanced reader, that makes it even easier - give him the supplemental books from the AG during his independent reading time. I always had a book basket with history books, science books, and some fun books (like Amelia Bedelia). My oldest loves history and science... and reading in general. So most of his history and science is just reading, and he is learning so much that way. I don't do projects very often. We just read, read, read. But really, even if you don't get to SOTW or RS4K, I wouldn't be concerned. You say your child is reading 2 hours a day? That's awesome! The only thing I really see missing in your lineup is writing of some sort (short copywork would be good). You could even use your history and science for the copywork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alte Veste Academy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have experienced this problem (this and your other post too) - an uncertainty and resulting insecurity that gave opportunity for attitude and behavior problems that need not have been problems at all. We're you this insightful a year ago? Because I really needed this spotlight back then! :lol: :lol: This was my struggle in DS9's first grade year. I spent his second grade year on course correct and his third grade year on track but refining my instruments. :tongue_smilie: This year, fourth grade, we are full steam ahead, on course but allowing for scenic stop-overs (aka Planned Spontaneity :D). The entire crew is now officially and happily on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esse Quam Videri Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 WOW. I am feeling like my son is deprived. We do school most of the day... not sit at your desk and do workbooks type of school, but school nonetheless. Perhaps I need to change our priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincap Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I really like some of these ideas!! I think incorporating science or ss after lunch would be good... I like having his independent reading books as science or ss.. (right now he reads mostly books about animals, classic bedtime stories...) And prepping activities the night before with reading at bedtime is a fantastic idea. Also letting him see school as fun and important.. just as important as outside time is key. Thank you. He is such an active kid and fantastic reader. Night time I have to make him go to bed and stop reading. He loves reading. One day I just let him read just to see how long he would read... he read to himself from 7pm-11pm. When finally I said "bud, I am going to bed- lights out!" Thanks for helping me brainstorm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I like lots of play but i feel like we get a good amount of "school" in, too. Our basic day goes generally like this: An hour for breakfast, dressing, etc. with free indoor play for anyone getting that done in a timely manner rather than taking the whole hour. A block of time for reading together - everyone gets at least one choice, DS does a little of the reading, there may be a narration or two, probably the littles will wander off after a little while, the Bible gets read and poetry, also history/science/literature/whatever that might be thought of as school if we weren't enjoying it. Snack and then time at the table together for memory work. A block of time for drawing - besides squeezing in some drawing lessons or fine motor exercises amidst free drawing, this will also be when we do geography drawing (continent blobs, etc) some days - I just haven't turned my mind toward geography yet A block of time for outdoor play. A block of time for story-telling, each verbal person gets to tell a story while the rest of us practice listening to someone and appreciating their stories rather than just our own (I have one who needs this practice particularly). Lunch Quiet time for middles and nap for littlest while DS does Latin, writing and math (on average, about an hour to an hour and a half). Up for educational video or two and a snack. Free play in or out until dinner. So, there is a lot of play but I work it a little to their educational benefit without interfering so much that I formalize it and turn it into Official School Stuff. Evenings and whenever dad is home there are games and there may be experiment type stuff and various activities but obviously we don't have a formal history or science program to squeeze in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanna Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I struggled with what and how much to do for first because it would be our first real year of school. I too posted and asked. Basically, subconsciously I felt bad for making him do school. Sounds silly I know. Anyhow, I started with a few subjects, Bible and history doing SL Core B+C , then added math and spelling when it arrived in the mail. A few more weeks went by and LA arrived, then I started an official handwriting program and now science once a week. Anyhow, I timed a good day for us yesterday and it takes apx 15 minutes per subject. In total we spend apx 2 hours a day in school. His output is minimal...math and handwriting. He is doing great and is not upset he cannot do legos ALL day long. He feels a sense of accomplishment when he does good in a subject or gets something. If you required a ton of output that might be something different but it's not really a lot for him to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embassy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Anyway, just as kids learn from play, school can be play. This is what I have done. I've started with much longer school days than other homeschoolers. We probably have the same amount of seatwork. I use that extra time to incorporate hands-on activities and the child's interests so the majority of school time is desirable. As the child goes into older grades it has been easy to transition from hands-on activities to more formal work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My first grader plays most of the day. Our school work is kind of spread out. Bible text at breakfast, he plays while I do dishes and laundry. We will do math, phonics and handwriting all at the same time, about an hour or so. He's a good reader so phonics right now is mostly spelling. That is everyday. Once or twice a week we will do an online science unit- otherwise he is outside studying bugs or toads or something. He will also watch some documentary or a Beakmans world show a couple of times a week. At night we do more bible reading, his reading aloud to me, I read a book of his choice, and then we listen to an audiobook. I want to get SOTW audiobook a nd add that. This really suits our family. We did K12 kindy and it was a ton of work. While it did give him a good foundation, it was stressful. I figure by third grade we would be adding more work. Since we will school year round this year I feel we can be more relaxed. He is always building or creating something with clay so I figure he is developing skills with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Well if it's working for you not a big deal IMO. I wish I could get my son to do more. My oldest was a lot easier with school work at the same age. Every kid is different. I agree. I wouldn't cut back if it is working. If my son was the type, we would be doing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 WOW. I am feeling like my son is deprived. We do school most of the day... not sit at your desk and do workbooks type of school, but school nonetheless. Perhaps I need to change our priorities. Don't feel too bad. We do quite a bit here too. I have two issues that requires more time for school. One is that I am teaching two same-age boys and the other is that one loves history and the other loves science so we spend a good deal of time each week on those. But my priority is, of course, the three R's so we also have to spend a decent amount of time on those. We typically do about an hour and a half before lunch (9:00-11:30ish). So they have plenty of time to play in the mornings before school. Then we take a long break, eat lunch and they play again for a while. Then we regroup and do more school in the afternoon (1:00-2:30ish). We normally do somewhere between 3 and 3.5 hours, depending on how much time we spend reading aloud and reading-to-self. We usually spend somewhere between 30-60min for read-aloud and 40 min for read-to-self or assigned reading. Mon-Thurs we cover: Bible Study (they love this but it is a bit time consuming.) English, Writing, Spelling Read Aloud & Read-to-Self (fun reading) or Assigned Reading Math (for now: two lessons + timed drills and flash cards) History (Mon/Wed), Science (Tues/Thurs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbotoast Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) We do the important stuff first thing in the morning (phonics, handwriting, math), then FIAR & science (more fun, less work), and after lunch we do fun subjects (art & Spanish). Some days we only do the basics and just play the rest of the day. I did have to sit down with DS this week and have a talk about the importance of doing his schoolwork each day. Some work is required! Eta: That is great that your son is reading so much independently! Edited October 20, 2012 by melbotoast add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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